Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Whababa]

I don't think his inclusion would be because he's a retro character, more so that he's an insanely iconic character from an insanely iconic franchise that's still ongoing to this day

Good point

 

[Captain Shwampy]

As far as retro picks go, I'd probably go with Lip too. While there are screenshots with characters that have the flower effect on, the Lip's Stick item itself hasn't been spotted yet so I guess there's that at least. Not that I think she will happen but yeah...

Its weird how many references smash has to Panel de Pon (flower Item, kirby transforms to a panel in his down b, music) and yet the main character from it doesn't even have a trophy of any kind

 

[Nekoo]

To which Palutena then mocked him for "not even having an Aether recovery" like Ike does.
And in the original Japanese, Viridi only said there would be "overlap" between him and Ike (as in Ike makes Chrom redundant), not that they are the exact same like she mocks him for in the English release.

Oh! I didn't knew that, interesting!
Though on the subject of Arther recovery, I do remember him doing a pretty similar move to it in Awakening-
And I'm 70% Sure he do have it in Warriors, but again, that game would be too late to be taken in consideration!

Damn- I'm still not Giving up on Chrom! His Chance will come somedays!

 

[Murlough]

While that's true, shadow hasn't displayed those powers outside of sonic battle at all, in games like Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 06, he uses basic punches and kicks which match up with Sonic's moveset. Although I'd like to see him teleporting and using chaos powers, Sonic's moveset is in no way out of character for him, they could just give him a chaos control based final smash if they wanted to.


He's a 3rd party character, I really doubt they'd do that for a retro

Um, maybe I misunderstood you but Shadow The Hedgehog (the game) was where Chaos Blast originated from I'm pretty sure. Most people hated that game but I still hope for a sequel even though an Pokemon XD remake is probably more likely.....anyway he uses Chaos Spear and Control in that, too. He also used laser guns and swords that looked like they came from Halo.

I don't care one way or the other if Shadow is in Smash at this point. If he is I would strongly prefer he wasn't just a Sonic echo, though. There is plenty of potential for him to be a more aggressive version of Sonic without actually taking into consideration the newer games. Just, more than anything, don't give him two spin-dashes.....that's still silly to me.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Um, maybe I misunderstood you but Shadow The Hedgehog (the game) was where Chaos Blast originated from I'm pretty sure. Most people hated that game but I still hope for a sequel even though an Pokemon XD remake is probably more likely.....anyway he uses Chaos Spear and Control in that, too. He also used laser guns and swords that looked like they came from Halo.

I don't care one way or the other if Shadow is in Smash at this point. If he is I would strongly prefer he wasn't just a Sonic echo, though. There is plenty of potential for him to be a more aggressive version of Sonic without actually taking into consideration the newer games. Just, more than anything, don't give him two spin-dashes.....that's still silly to me.

I agree, I'd rather he be unique and use chaos powers too but echoes are essentially characters that are only included because they can work like other characters, basically it's either clone shadow or no shadow.

He had chaos powers in that game but they were limited to chaos blast and control only, he wasn't firing spears like he did in sonic 06, and in sonic 06 he only had spears and discount kaioken mode. But still the spring, homing attack and spindash are all things shadow has access to, Sonic's moveset wouldn't be unfitting without chaos powers

 

[Whababa]

If they were to include all stages from all games (which seems pretty likely to me) how will they handle stages like Flat Zone X as well as Flat Zone 2? Will they just have both? Also, what about Pyrosphere since ridley is in? And Miiverse too since its whole gimmick is gone.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Okay, forgive me if this sounds dumb, but would Chrom work as a Roy Echo minus the fire effects? Roy's sort of a middle ground between Ike and Marth I guess?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

those two guys that booed bayonetta. come out and fight me you cowards.

I've come to find over the past few days.

This fanbase is hella immature when it comes to her. More than I ever even thought.

There are far too many reaction videos where they get hype at ''OH MY GOD EVERYONE IS BACK"

then she shows up and suddenly they turn sour, boo her and tell her to get out or off their screen.

Grow up. Like seriously.

You can't be hype for ''Oh my god everyone is back!" AND then turn around and say **** like that.

You look like a childish idiot.

 

[StrangeMann]

I actually think it's possible our retro rep for this game is third party. If Simon doesn't count, perhaps Bub/Bob from bubble bobble (a nintendo-born square enix franchise) or Geno from Square enix could count as retros

 

[Curious Villager]

Its weird how many references smash has to Panel de Pon (flower Item, kirby transforms to a panel in his down b, music) and yet the main character from it doesn't even have a trophy of any kind

Sakurai is apparently a fan of the series. Why Lip herself hasn't shown up yet outside of a Brawl sticker is beyond me though.

At the very least, I'd hope that she appears as an Assist Trophy, especially after the likes of Sukapon and Sable did.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Something I don't often seen brought up, but I feel like I'm in the vast minority when I say I'm hoping for some sort of option to instantly unlock all the characters instead of starting from the original eight and unlocking everyone from there.

I honestly just don't see the appeal in unlocking characters anymore, especially since we're most likely going to have up to 70 characters in the base game. Sure Sakurai said the unlock requirements were "streamlined", but I'd much rather have everyone there from the start without having to grind out matches just to play the character that I want; or at the very least, have most of them unlocked and have some of the cast still locked if Sakurai really wanted to keep a bunch of newcomers a secret like the previous games...

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Yeah I don't want to have wade through 70 plus characters to unlock them all.

That **** is tedious. It's 2018. Just give me everyone from the get go.

Especially if we're starting out with just the original 8.

 

[Deleted member]

*Looks at poll resutls*

Uhhh......

Don't you guys think that we should probably re-do the poll because of recent news?

 

[Curious Villager]

I wonder if by "Streamlined" Sakurai means that you're not made to fight the unlockable's anymore when you unlock them (Kind of like in Brawl's SSE when you unlocked characters straight away as you went along) I can imagine that getting pretty tedious after a while, especially if you end up losing and having to do the unlock requirement all over again.

 

[MainJPW]

While that's true, shadow hasn't displayed those powers outside of sonic battle at all, in games like Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 06, he uses basic punches and kicks which match up with Sonic's moveset. Although I'd like to see him teleporting and using chaos powers, Sonic's moveset is in no way out of character for him, they could just give him a chaos control based final smash if they wanted to.

Sidenote I think it'd be neat if they added fire effects to his kick moves, he's using rocket skates after all

You're referring to two specific abilities in Battle, he utilizes Chaos Powers all the time though. His strikes in Sonic 06 are even Chaos enhanced.

He doesn't use the specific abilities Chaos Magic or Chaos Burst but he does continue to use Chaos powers in those games in the form of Chaos Blast ( STH and 06 )and Chaos Spear ( SA2 and 06 ) and of course Chaos Control for example, and he utilizes teleportation in almost every game he's in. I do agree that Sonic's moveset isn't technically out of character for him, but he does normally incorporate Chaos powers into his fighting style is what I'm saying.

 

[Nekoo]

Okay, forgive me if this sounds dumb, but would Chrom work as a Roy Echo minus the fire effects? Roy's sort of a middle ground between Ike and Marth I guess?

He could work, however Chrom never wield his sword like a Dagger/Reverse grip so it would be extremely weird-
The closest would be an Ike echo- (since after verification, he indeed have Aether like move in Warriors)
Or a mix of moves from Ike, Roy, Marth to make him a chimera clone like wolf was.

 

[Zinith]

I kinda like that the OG 12 (or 8) will be the only starters, as long as the unlock requirements aren't TOO tedious

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Puzzle franchises in general tend to get the short end of the stick in Smash. We haven't even gotten a Dr.Mario stage for that matter, or any of stages based off R.O.B.'s games which I think where puzzle games too....

Well to be fair we know that a Dr. Mario stage was initially planned for Smash 4 and actually netiher of the R.O.B games were a puzzle game. Gyromite was a platformer that you could interact with and Stack-Up was well, not really even a game. It was just interacting with R.O.B through the TV to make him do stuff.

 

[Murlough]

I agree, I'd rather he be unique and use chaos powers too but echoes are essentially characters that are only included because they can work like other characters, basically it's either clone shadow or no shadow.

It's been said like 50 times now but ya'll are jumping on the echo character bandwagon a little too hard.

"It's either clone Shadow or no Shadow." OK, then. I wouldn't want Shadow the Hedgehog in Smash anyway if he was just a reskin of the most obnoxious character in the game (sorry Sonic mains. I hate Cloud more at least.). Daisy I can accept being a Peach clone. Shadow has a lot going for him other than being a shadow (ayyy) of the Blue Blurr. It feels disrespectful to the character to actually ask for him like that.

Not that I think it won't happen. It could. I wouldn't like it at all, though. People seem to willingly ignore the fact that two of Dark Pit's moves are very different from his origin character's (probably should use Wolf as a better example from Brawl but I'm sore and don't feel lie rewriting my post so whatever ;-. They could make Shadow 90% echo but give him some alterations so he isn't brand spankin' new but at least isn't just "Edgy Sonic Clone." (which yes is his design and original purpose but......HE'S HIS OWN CHARACTER OK! TOTALLY ORIGINAL!)

tl;dr Shadow feels wrong as just a re-release of Sonic. They should at least redo the animations for some moves, imagining him spinning his fist all serious like for F-smash feels wrong. Side-tilt as Shadow just....looks wrong. Shadow should be based off of Sonic's move-set but not an echo. If he has to be an echo to be included I vote to wait for next Smash. (My vote means jack I know, I'm just stating my opinion as an ex-edgelord.)

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

Yeah I don't want to have wade through 70 plus characters to unlock them all.

That **** is tedious. It's 2018. Just give me everyone from the get go.

Especially if we're starting out with just the original 8.

I actually think having to unlock almost everyone is going to be one of the most fun things about this game, but to each their own!

 

[Zeox]

Yeah I don't want to have wade through 70 plus characters to unlock them all.

That **** is tedious. It's 2018. Just give me everyone from the get go.

Especially if we're starting out with just the original 8.

I, on the opposite side, would love to fight and defeat +70 characters and grow my roster with my own effort.

 

[Curious Villager]

Well to be fair we know that a Dr. Mario stage was initially planned for Smash 4 and actually netiher of the R.O.B games were a puzzle game. Gyromite was a platformer that you could interact with and Stack-Up was well, not really even a game. It was just interacting with R.O.B through the TV to make him do stuff.

Oh I see, I vaguely recalled a game where you had to navigate a sleep walking professor through some pipe maze so I thought that was some puzzle game...

As for Dr.Mario's stage. Hopefully they will revive that for this game.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Regarding Shadow: Sonic Battle on its own kind of proves that making him an echo fighter of Sonic would be pretty out of character.

For me personally, it's either making Shadow a unique character or no Shadow.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

https://twitter.com/DreaminErryDay/status/1007669624136192000

Is there actually any credibility that konami is keeping a game they showed at E3 in a embargo

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Something I don't often seen brought up, but I feel like I'm in the vast minority when I say I'm hoping for some sort of option to instantly unlock all the characters instead of starting from the original eight and unlocking everyone from there.

I honestly just don't see the appeal in unlocking characters anymore, especially since we're most likely going to have up to 70 characters in the base game. Sure Sakurai said the unlock requirements were "streamlined", but I'd much rather have everyone there from the start without having to grind out matches just to play the character that I want; or at the very least, have most of them unlocked and have some of the cast still locked if Sakurai really wanted to keep a bunch of newcomers a secret like the previous games...

I hope there's some kind of mode that makes unlocking characters easier, kinda like subspace but obviously not a proper storymode, although if they wanna bring the story mode back I would not be mad at all

You're referring to two specific abilities in Battle, he utilizes Chaos Powers all the time though. His strikes in Sonic 06 are even Chaos enhanced.

He doesn't use the specific abilities Chaos Magic or Chaos Burst but he does continue to use Chaos powers in those games in the form of Chaos Blast ( STH and 06 )and Chaos Spear ( SA2 and 06 ) and of course Chaos Control for example, and he utilizes teleportation in almost every game he's in. I do agree that Sonic's moveset isn't technically out of character for him, but he does normally incorporate Chaos powers into his fighting style is what I'm saying.

I feel like they could give a chaos flair to some of his animations instead, give his punches a darkness effect and his kicks a fire effect, have his roll and spotdodge be teleporting or something and then obviously a chaos control and/or blast inspired final smash. I think there are ways to incorporate shadow's character without changing the moveset

 

[Sharkarat]

As long As unlocking is fast, I'm ok having to unlock stuff. Only used 90 minutes unlocking all characters and stage in 4, but half of that was for the pacman stage.

 

[CroonerMike]

Does anyone else want a new Wario character? Mona is my pick.

 

[RouffWestie]

If making Shadow an echo means copying Sonic's moveset 1:1, then Chaos Control wouldn't be part of his moveset, which I can't see happening; it's his signature technique. The Assist Trophy itself uses it, so the developers have already established that they know it's an important part of his character.
If echoes can have different final Smashes, or at least a single different attack, then yes, I think it's likely. But none of the echoes so far have been shown to do that, and it seems like that goes against the echo concept anyways.
It's a semi-clone or nothing from my point of view.

What do you guys think in terms of a new retro addition? I personally have wanted Bub from Bubble Bobble since Brawl, and the main reason he hasnt appeared has been because he is owned by Taito which is owned by Square. Now, however, I feel he has a shot, what with him being requested in the past and 3rd party issues not being as big of an issue.

I don't expect any at this point.

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

New York crowd reactions to returning characters.

I love watching reactions to the direct. They really went crazy for Ice Climbers, Young Link, Wolf, and Daisy, haha. The Ice Climbers reaction gave me chills-- makes me wish I was able to watch with a group of people.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Does anyone else want a new Wario character? Mona is my pick.

Id love Syrup to be in Smash
Since Sakurai based Wario off WarioWare why not have Syrup in to represent the Wario Land side of the series

Give her Wario's shoulder dash and pick up ability along with abilities unique to her.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Does anyone else want a new Wario character? Mona is my pick.

I don't really want one but if we got one I think Ashley is definitely be the best option, she has the most moveset potential out of all of them and she's by far the most popular

 

[Whababa]

If we don't see shadow then at the very least we finally have Ridely's

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

https://twitter.com/DreaminErryDay/status/1007669624136192000

Is there actually any credibility that konami is keeping a game they showed at E3 in a embargo

Konami out here flexing harder than RiceGum.

Back on topic, iirc, a bunch of French outlets (there was one specifically on youtube that mentioned this) said that Konami were revealing something behind closed doors at E3. It would make some sense since Konami didn't reveal what their two Switch games were, afaik at least.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

If making Shadow an echo means copying Sonic's moveset 1:1, then Chaos Control wouldn't be part of his moveset, which I can't see happening; it's his signature technique. The Assist Trophy itself uses it, so the developers have already established that they know it's an important part of his character.
If echoes can have different final Smashes, or at least a single different attack, then yes, I think it's likely. But none of the echoes so far have been shown to do that, and it seems like that goes against the echo concept anyways.
It's a semi-clone or nothing from my point of view.

I don't expect any at this point.

Different final smashes are allowed

at least I'm assuming that's what this is

 

[N3ON]

https://twitter.com/DreaminErryDay/status/1007669624136192000

Is there actually any credibility that konami is keeping a game they showed at E3 in a embargo

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I mean... that very much sounds like a Konami move...

Also Gamekult revealed there was a Konami game shown behind closed doors at E3. So it seems very likely.

 

[SonicMario]

Um, maybe I misunderstood you but Shadow The Hedgehog (the game) was where Chaos Blast originated from I'm pretty sure. Most people hated that game but I still hope for a sequel even though an Pokemon XD remake is probably more likely.....anyway he uses Chaos Spear and Control in that, too. He also used laser guns and swords that looked like they came from Halo.

I don't care one way or the other if Shadow is in Smash at this point. If he is I would strongly prefer he wasn't just a Sonic echo, though. There is plenty of potential for him to be a more aggressive version of Sonic without actually taking into consideration the newer games. Just, more than anything, don't give him two spin-dashes.....that's still silly to me.

I agree, I'd rather he be unique and use chaos powers too but echoes are essentially characters that are only included because they can work like other characters, basically it's either clone shadow or no shadow.

He had chaos powers in that game but they were limited to chaos blast and control only, he wasn't firing spears like he did in sonic 06, and in sonic 06 he only had spears and discount kaioken mode. But still the spring, homing attack and spindash are all things shadow has access to, Sonic's moveset wouldn't be unfitting without chaos powers

Yeah I think when it comes to a 2nd Sonic rep. It now comes down to either an echo Shadow or DLC Tails. I'm not confident in Sonic getting 3 characters.

Though they could also just keep Sonic alone. I'd be fine with any of these possibilities. If Tails makes it, that's my most wanted and I'll be super stoked. If Shadow's an echo, I admit I'll be quite disheartened with it likely meaning no Tails but at least it'd be a fairly ideal echo choice simply because of how popular Shadow is in the Sonic fanbase. If Sonic's alone again that's fine too. I admit Tails getting in Smash would really only be a really, really, big cherry on top for myself.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I mean... that very much sounds like a Konami move...

Also Gamekult revealed there was a Konami game shown behind closed doors at E3. So it seems very likely.

oh my

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

As someone who's been lurking for the past month, and followed leaks since pre-Brawl days, I have to say I'm astonished at the "Vergeben's leak is fake, but if Ridley/Snake are revealed, we'll know it's true" transitioning seamlessly into "We all knew Ridley and Snake were in, easy guess, we'll know if he's lying by Wednesday".
Hindsight's 20/20.

I'm not sure the Vergeben doubters are familiar with how sources can work. Maybe his source said "everyone's back", and he inferred 'no cuts from the last Smash'. That type of statement would be suspect if he was the leaker, but he's not. He has a reported source.
Ice Climbers returning was a safe bet, I'll admit. However, saying Snake and Ridley were safe guesses is the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard regarding Smash leaks.

Just my two cents.

Another thing on Vergeben's credibility, but his claim of there being a sequel to The World Ends With You was an assumption similar to the one made about Shovel Knight being in Smash Bros. He was told that a new The World Ends With You game being made, and the first thing he thought of was a sequel. So it's a matter of incorrect reporting instead of faulty sources/not vetting his claims. A similar case would be reporting no cuts instead of everyone returns if he was told that everyone is coming back. Neither can necessarily be used as a hit against him in my opinion.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I mean... that very much sounds like a Konami move...

Also Gamekult revealed there was a Konami game shown behind closed doors at E3. So it seems very likely.

I guess we'll have to wait until then to see if it's true. If it is, ten points to Vergeben. If not, that's a massive hit.

 

[Captain Fun]

https://twitter.com/DreaminErryDay/status/1007669624136192000

Is there actually any credibility that konami is keeping a game they showed at E3 in a embargo

Apparently it was said on the Giant Bomb Live Show and other shows.

 

[vaanrose]

As someone who's been lurking for the past month, and followed leaks since pre-Brawl days, I have to say I'm astonished at the "Vergeben's leak is fake, but if Ridley/Snake are revealed, we'll know it's true" transitioning seamlessly into "We all knew Ridley and Snake were in, easy guess, we'll know if he's lying by Wednesday".
Hindsight's 20/20.

I'm not sure the Vergeben doubters are familiar with how sources can work. Maybe his source said "everyone's back", and he inferred 'no cuts from the last Smash'. That type of statement would be suspect if he was the leaker, but he's not. He has a reported source.
Ice Climbers returning was a safe bet, I'll admit. However, saying Snake and Ridley were safe guesses is the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard regarding Smash leaks.

Just my two cents.

Eh, I'm pretty familiar with how leaks work, actually.