Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[papagenos]

Although I have no relation to Geno himself I'd really love it if he made it in, just for my Brawl speculation nostalgia. I don't think people who weren't there realize just how big of a deal he was during that period, he was legit the most wanted character who didn't make it in, ahead of Ridley, K. Rool, Mega Man and Krystal (who was also a much bigger deal back then). At least that was the case at Brawl Central (which saw activity comparable to Smashboards), I'm not sure how different things were around these parts.

brawl central!!! thank you! I had completely forgotten that sites name I was there before I ever made an account on smash boards.

my user name was "littlemac" cause at the time him and geno were the top characters I wanted! blast from the past thank you for reminding me of what that site was called!

 

[Roberk]

@GoldenYuiitusin
That’s a definition that you created. If Echoes/clones have the same moveset and stats, aren’t they just alts at that point? The Melee clones had different stats and move attributes, Lucina and Dark Pit had some differences in stats to their stems. If they aren’t going to change the playstyle in any way, what’s the point?

 

[Chandeelure]

My last Pichu post.

Now he takes the pain like a big boy.

 

[MysticKnives]

Pichu Bthrowing Ridley? That sounds hilarious. Jigglypuff using Rest on Rids sounds hilarious too now that I think about it.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

My last Pichu post.

Now he takes the pain like a big boy.

Wait he used to cry during his attacks, and they took that out?! But that's so cute!!!! Bummer.

 

[Wyoming]

Ridley, conqueror of planets and mass murderer, gets thrown off a platform by a baby mouse.

Lads this was what Smash was made for from the get go.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

@GoldenYuiitusin
That’s a definition that you created. If Echoes/clones have the same moveset and stats, aren’t they just alts at that point? The Melee clones had different stats and move attributes, Lucina and Dark Pit had some differences in stats to their stems. If they aren’t going to change the playstyle in any way, what’s the point?

Bill trinen said they have the same stats and move animations, lucina and dark pit are also proof of this, move attributes, misc animations and final smashes are fair game though

 

[Chandeelure]

Wait he used to cry during his attacks, and they took that out?! But that's so cute!!!! Bummer.

I don't know, I thought it was sad, and also weird because he was also smiling hahaha.

I like the new animation more.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I'm not really big on the Sonic games, but wasn't the way Shadow runs different from Sonic as well? I remember him with those laser skate things so he looked different while moving.

Yup, Shadow tend to skate when running in all the games he appears in. This is one of the key aspects of Shadow, even in games where his abilities are otherwise the exact same as Sonic.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Actually you made me realize something. Most people point to amiibo figures being able to transfer meaning that customs have to stay, but they aren't going to be able to transfer perfectly anyway due to character changes, specifically Charizard and Palutena. So they already can't transfer 1:1 so that's not a point towards customs coming back. Yeah not convinced yet.

Smash 3DS / Wii U wouldn't be able to interact with Smash Ultimate anyway.

With that said, we don't know the fate of character customization just yet, so until we get more news from Sakurai, it's too soon to suggest that custom specials are dead. And if you're someone like Ganondorf, having access to Wizard's Dropkick again would really help with his recovery.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Bill trinen said they have the same stats and move animations, lucina and dark pit are also proof of this, move attributes, misc animations and final smashes are fair game though

While I agree with the sentiment, I do have to mention that Lucina has a different animation for her neutral special. She raises her arm up above her head, while Marth keeps his arm below the shoulder as he prepares to strike.

 

[papagenos]

My point is, what Shadow fan wants him in Smash playing exactly the same way as Sonic? Would anyone be happy about that? Genuine question if anyone happens to be a Shadow fan in here.

Like yeah as far as echos go it makes sense but people are expecting way too many echos to begin with. Just because its a concept doesn't mean Sakurai suddenly thinks its a brilliant idea to force a bunch into the roster. We'll get two more echos MAXIMUM. Just because he changed the official term doesn't mean fans will receive them any more kindly when they start blowing up the roster. That much more so when they are a character meant to not be the character they are "echoing." It's like arguing Dixie should be a basic echo of Diddy, just because.

EDIT: I'm really not meaning to rant so much....

Agreed.

I think echo fighters was just a term because sakurai wanted to keep everyone (so that means keeping dark pit and lucina who were controversial to begin with) AND add the highly fan requested daisy (but felt she rightfully should play like peach) so he came up with acknowledging them a different way and even numbering them with their counter part so he doesnt feel like hes being dishonest saying the game has 66chaarcters or whatever since "echo fighters" dont add to that number.

I do not think its opening the floodgates for tons of echo fighters like that is going to be a thing more than it ever already was, i also dont think any third parties will get echo fighters even if shadow/ken/ms pacman etc... work super well i think it diminishes the honorary guest position third parties hold in smash. their echo counter parts simply arent as deserving as the original.

I expect maybe one more at most and possibly they might be focused on as DLC in a similar way to mii costumes but that would be best case scenario imo. someone like dixie who COULD be an echo i think is still more likely to be like dr mario where they arent an echo fighter but similar. this still means less development time but i dont think sakurai would make someone like dixie an echo fighter instead of a semi clone simply because theres a term for it now. he'd do with her what he always would probably have done which is make her similar to diddy with a few differences.

basically im just pretending the term echo fighter was already used in smash4, i think emphasising it cause we just learned the term is equivilant to how when crash n sane trilogy was shown thinking it means crash is in smash or when dark souls is shown on switch now solaire is in smash etc... it could happen but dont let the timing cloud your judgement here.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

While I agree with the sentiment, I do have to mention that Lucina has a different animation for her neutral special. She raises her arm up above her head, while Marty keeps his arm below the shoulder as he prepares to strike.

I guess charging animations can be changed, as long as the actual attack hitbox doesn't have to be changed animation changes are fine.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Smash 3DS / Wii U wouldn't be able to interact with Smash Ultimate anyway.

With that said, we don't know the fate of character customization just yet, so until we get more news from Sakurai, it's too soon to suggest that custom specials are dead. And if you're someone like Ganondorf, having access to Wizard's Dropkick again would really help with his recovery.

Didn't they say you could transfer your smash 4 amiibos to Ultimate? I could be totally wrong, it would be the second thing I misheard from the direct in the last hour lol.

Edit: Just checked, he does say data from previous titles can be transfered. So yea it means nothing from customs because Charizard and Palutena can't transfer perfectly anyway.

 

[Wyoming]

On a side note, I am enjoying how the speculation for this game turned completely upside down since Tuesday. Supposed no-hopers like Chrom are given a 2nd chance whilst supposed shoo-ins like a 7th Gen Pokemon now have a giant question mark about their future.

Sakurai truly changes his vision every Smash game. No chill.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I'm not really big on the Sonic games, but wasn't the way Shadow runs different from Sonic as well? I remember him with those laser skate things so he looked different while moving. To me this would be a big deal for an Echo character, since all the other 3 shown have a near identical model/animations to their original with a few mechanical changes / different specials. To me the biggest front runners for possible echo characters are Dark Samus, Impa and Isabelle for Samus/Sheik/Villager.

If daisy can have a different idle then I'm sure a different running animation would be fine.

 

[NintenZ]

I’m aware of the whole Fiora situation, but I believe she still has a chance for several reasons, one is that we’ve seen that characters can appear outside of Final Smashes, as evidenced by Riki as an Assist Trophy and most recently vanilla Samus in Zero Suit Samus’s Final Smash, the fact that this helps in terms of the fact that Sakurai is acknowledging that she is important, and the fact that she has appeared in both Project X Zone 2 and Xenoblade Chronicles 2 as a playable character in both, giving evidence to the fact that Monolith still has interest in using her. My idea is that if she were to potentially be revealed then when she’s in a fight with Shulk his Final Smash wouldn’t feature Fiora while with fights without her she’d fight alongside him in his Final Smash.

 

[Will]

Didn't they say you could transfer your smash 4 amiibos to Ultimate? I could be totally wrong, it would be the second thing I misheard from the direct in the last hour lol.

You can, but I think the data is just stored in the amiibo itself to transfer over.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Didn't they say you could transfer your smash 4 amiibos to Ultimate? I could be totally wrong, it would be the second thing I misheard from the direct in the last hour lol.

There may be something that we're both overlooking with the amiibo situation. But I guess at the worst, the amiibo data from Smash 3DS / Wii U would get erased.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I’m aware of the whole Fiora situation, but I believe she still has a chance for several reasons, one is that we’ve seen that characters can appear outside of Final Smashes, as evidenced by Riki as an Assist Trophy and most recently vanilla Samus in Zero Suit Samus’s Final Smash, the fact that this helps in terms of the fact that Sakurai is acknowledging that she is important, and the fact that she has appeared in both Project X Zone 2 and Xenoblade Chronicles 2 as a playable character in both, giving evidence to the fact that Monolith still has interest in using her. My idea is that if she were to potentially be revealed then when she’s in a fight with Shulk his Final Smash wouldn’t feature Fiora while with fights without her she’d fight alongside him in his Final Smash.

If anything I think she'd be an assist trophy like Riki is, The chances of her becoming playable over Elma or Rex are slim to none at this point.

Tbh I forgot about ZSS's new final smash, that's weird as hell, why couldn't they just have her fire a laser from her ship rather than having her turn into samus? literally makes no sense

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

There may be something that we're both overlooking with the amiibo situation. But I guess at the worst, the amiibo data from Smash 3DS / Wii U would get erased.

Just checked and he said data from previous titles would carry over...I don't know exactlly how that works when some characters can't transfer over...weird.

 

[Wyoming]

I’m aware of the whole Fiora situation, but I believe she still has a chance for several reasons, one is that we’ve seen that characters can appear outside of Final Smashes, as evidenced by Riki as an Assist Trophy and most recently vanilla Samus in Zero Suit Samus’s Final Smash, the fact that this helps in terms of the fact that Sakurai is acknowledging that she is important, and the fact that she has appeared in both Project X Zone 2 and Xenoblade Chronicles 2 as a playable character in both, giving evidence to the fact that Monolith still has interest in using her. My idea is that if she were to potentially be revealed then when she’s in a fight with Shulk his Final Smash wouldn’t feature Fiora while with fights without her she’d fight alongside him in his Final Smash.

Let go of those straws, man. It's not worth it in the long run. I was surprised they even acknowledged her in that way, but since she's in the final smash and was specifically revealed in such a matter by Sakurai means her playable chances are over.

 

[Champ Gold]

Customization is all but gone.

Palutena has a revamped moveset

Miis have a set body type and moveset.

Equipment and stat boost will still be there but say goodbye to custom moves

 

[Whababa]

Equipment and stat boost will still be there but say goodbye to custom moves

Could we potentially see assets from old customs be used in new echoes?

 

[AlphaSSB]

I'm pretty sure they said that Smash 3DS/Wii U amiibo will work with Smash Switch, but I don't know if your saved character on the amiibo will carry over.

I know they revealed Inkling and Ridley amiibo, but I'm curious if they plan on creating amiibo for cut veterans or for Smash 3DS/Wii U characters in their new outfits. Probably not the latter, but I've heard nothing in regards to the former.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

We can't really say Customs are gone. It's looking that way, but considering how much was not shown off via the demo as is(and considering a lot of stuff wasn't implemented in the demo, like the ability to choose somebody other than Squirtle), it might not have been active yet.

I do think they're likely to go, though.

 

[Wyoming]

Everything seems to be pointing at their exclusion. Probably for the best as Palutena and Miis got shafted in terms of balancing because of them.

 

[Sharkarat]

SlickWylde I did your Gaming Icons roster idea (30 character, but not competely following your before 2002 rule)

Spoiler: Spoilering to not clutter up the discussion

Other possible choices includes Yoshi, Rayman, Worms and Dark Souls Character.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I'm pretty sure they said that Smash 3DS/Wii U amiibo will work with Smash Switch, but I don't know if your saved character on the amiibo will carry over.

I know they revealed Inkling and Ridley amiibo, but I'm curious if they plan on creating amiibo for cut veterans or for Smash 3DS/Wii U characters in their new outfits. Probably not the latter, but I've heard nothing in regards to the former.

I just checked and he said data will carry over from previous games whatever that means.

Also I do hope we get a Snake and Wolf amiibo!

 

[Champ Gold]

Could we potentially see assets from old customs be used in new echoes?

I don't see it because Lucina by the looks of it still has the same moves

 

[Deleted member]

@GoldenYuiitusin
That’s a definition that you created. If Echoes/clones have the same moveset and stats, aren’t they just alts at that point? The Melee clones had different stats and move attributes, Lucina and Dark Pit had some differences in stats to their stems. If they aren’t going to change the playstyle in any way, what’s the point?

...that's not a definition I created.

17:44

They talk about what an Echo Fighter is.

Aside from that, Lucina and Dark Pit have the same overall stats as their counterparts.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

We can't really say Customs are gone. It's looking that way, but considering how much was not shown off via the demo as is(and considering a lot of stuff wasn't implemented in the demo, like the ability to choose somebody other than Squirtle), it might not have been active yet.

I do think they're likely to go, though.

To add to this, I don't recall customizations ever existing at E3 2014's Smash Wii U tournament. Customizations could still be in the middle of development, which is why they weren't available in Smash Ultimate's E3 build.

 

[NintenZ]

Let go of those straws, man.

Not really grasping for anything, just saying it shouldn’t be ruled out entirely is all. In reality I don’t know all I can say is we can expect a lot of unexpected turns.

 

[AlphaSSB]

I just checked and he said data will carry over from previous games whatever that means.

Also I do hope we get a Snake and Wolf amiibo!

Data carries over? Looks like my "Wolf" Fox amiibo will actually get to fight against Wolf. That'll be interesting to see.

I guess that if the amiibo has any custom moves, they'll just be defaulted, if customs don't return. Then the code for the amiibo's costume would just apply to whatever is in that slot in Smash Ultimate. (FoxAlt08 may be the Wolf-like alt in Smash 4, but FoxAlt08 could be completely different in Smash Ultimate.)

And, yeah, I'd love to own a Wolf amiibo to go with my Fox amiibo.

 

[RandomAce]

My last Pichu post.

Now he takes the pain like a big boy.

Didn’t Sakurai say that the Pikachu in Smash Bros Brawl and onward was the Pichu in Melee that evolved into Pikachu?

GASP! He’s a TIME TRAVELER!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Didn’t Sakurai say that the Pikachu in Smash Bros Brawl and onward was the Pichu in Melee that evolved into Pikachu?

GASP! He’s a TIME TRAVELER!

Pretty sure that's just a fan theory.

 

[N3ON]

Not really grasping for anything, just saying it shouldn’t be ruled out entirely is all. In reality I don’t know all I can say is we can expect a lot of unexpected turns.

I think ruling out characters that appear as part of a moveset is a safe call.

 

[Curious Villager]

Didn’t Sakurai say that the Pikachu in Smash Bros Brawl and onward was the Pichu in Melee that evolved into Pikachu?

He’s a TIME TRAVELER!

Pretty sure that was just a fan theory due to Pikachu's goggles alt. Sakurai never commented on Pichu's absence as far as I can recall....

 

[Whababa]

If amiibos do carry over the same data then how will skins that were in sm4sh and not in Ultimate be carried over?

 

[SonicMario]

I believe it's possible they made it so Miis are the only ones with custom moves now. Forgot who it was here, but someone noted in footage that some of the Miis used specials that you could only choose one over the other back in Smash 4. If this is the case I think that's the best compromise. The Miis don't lose a huge part of their appeal with the customizable moves, and those who aren't fond of Custom moves don't have to deal with it for most characters other then the Miis

Though I think the Miis in random online that they said they'd try to get them ready for might stick to a default. And tournaments might follow suit on that.