Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Sonic Poke]

Ok, so if Verge is correct I would expect those characters:
1- Simon Belmont
2- King K Rool
3- Decidueye/ Mimikyu/ Incineroar/ Tapu Koko/ Magearna/ Lycanrock/ Gen 7 pokemon is what I mean.
4- Dillon
5- Celica
6- Elma/ Rex and Pyra

If we get more clones, perhaps Chrom and Dark Samus have a chance.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Honestly, Ice Climbers coming back was a highly believable thing.

Simon, Ridley, and Snake were not.

 

[RileyXY1]

I don't think that the newcomers will be decided solely by fan demand. If fan demand was a factor then Waluigi would've gotten in and not Daisy.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I think the fact Vergeben is now saying half a dozen newcomers is very telling that he's been piggybacking his way to victory this entire time.

He got Ridley right, now he's heard Sakurai's quote and adding it to his leak to make the rest of it seems ''real."

Two things

One vergeben still got 4/6 correct about smash (Simon and minecraft involvement is missing)

Two Ridley daisy and inklings are excluded from the half a dozen he's claim nine total newbies and 2-3 of those are probably echo characters (unless he excluded echo characters as well.)

 

[Tree Gelbman]

No cuts from Wii U and 3Ds were mentioned, but eh, with the development period of this game. That was a likelyhood anyways?

Daisy wasn't mentioned. Nor the concept of echo fighters.

Ice Climbers were definitely coming back regardless.

Ridley wasn't actually that risky of a guess for a newcomer.

If we're holding him to his word for anything it should be the Snake returning bit.

It's just too spotty for me to put any faith into what he says.

 

[RileyXY1]

No cuts from Wii U and 3Ds were not mentioned.

Daisy wasn't mentioned. Nor the concept of echo fighters.

Ice Climbers were definitely coming back regardless.

Ridley wasn't actually that risky of a guess for a newcomer.

If we're holding him to his word for anything it should be the Snake returning bit.

It's just too spotty for me to put any faith into what he says.

Yeah. It's just generic comments that most people would believe.

 

[Sonic Poke]

I don't think that the newcomers will be decided solely by fan demand. If fan demand was a factor then Waluigi would've gotten in and not Daisy.

Perhaps, but Waluigi could not be turned into a clone while Daisy could.

 

[Deleted member]

This December wait is gonna suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

If we get the more risky aspects confirmed, i.e. either Simon or Minecraft, then it's probably safe to buy in.

Ridley was totally not risky, which is why he got less than 20% on RTC.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Uh Oh.


Oh and also, someone did a question if any of these remaining characters were Echo Fighters, and he answered with this:


Also someone asked about the Konami games for E3 and this was his response:

So we'll for sure know if he's a fraud or not by wednesday, depending on if that castlevania title is actually revealed or not

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The idea of the Ice Climbers returning depended heavily on whether or not they would be fully compatible with 8-player Smash. It seems that the developers found a way to pull that off.

 

[RileyXY1]

So we'll for sure know if he's a fraud or not by wednesday, thank god for that

Technically, he already is. Vergeben has made so many incorrect predictions over the last few months. It's best to take him with a grain of salt.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

No cuts from Wii U and 3Ds were mentioned, but eh, with the development period of this game. That was a likelyhood anyways?

Daisy wasn't mentioned. Nor the concept of echo fighters.

Ice Climbers were definitely coming back regardless.

Ridley wasn't actually that risky of a guess for a newcomer.

If we're holding him to his word for anything it should be the Snake returning bit.

It's just too spotty for me to put any faith into what he says.

My point was that "everyone is returning" isn't what he said.

It definitely more goes against his leak that having him only say the Wii U/3DS roster is returning.

He's really spotty right now, and while it's possible he's real, and he got a lot right among this leak, there's easily issues.

Ridley was risky due to Sakurai's statements and quite a few believed it wouldn't be real. People were hopeful, but already prepared for the NPC bit. It was very difficult to predict the character right due to what happened in Smash 4 alone. Especially with tons of people being in denial of his role(though to be fair, there was the tiny possibility he was playable as well as a hazard, but that wasn't the case come the 3DS version, where he was meant to be a hazard there too).

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Ridley had to be coming.

Sakurai probably got tons of votes for him in the ballot regardless of his stage hazard.

He was one of the legit last standing ''all-stars" of a Nintendo series with a lot of potential.

Claiming he was in and getting it right? It's really not that bold or risky of a move.

 

[N3ON]

Ridley was totally not risky, which is why he got less than 20% on RTC.

The resetera mods indicated he'd be in the game prior to Verg saying anything.

 

[RileyXY1]

The resetera mods indicated he'd be in the game prior to Verg saying anything.

Yeah. He may have been piggybacking off those mods.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Ridley had to be coming.

Sakurai probably got tons of votes for him in the ballot regardless of his stage hazard.

He was one of the legit last standing ''all-stars" of a Nintendo series with a lot of potential.

Claiming he was in and getting it right? It's really not that bold or risky of a move.

Weren't resetera mods and people hinting at ridley too? It's not like he was the only one who said ridley was in

 

[Tree Gelbman]

The idea of the Ice Climbers returning depended heavily on whether or not they would be fully compatible with 8-player Smash. It seems that the developers found a way to pull that off.

Nah. Ice Climbers and 8 Player Smash are a fallacy that the fandom created.

Sakurai himself has said they were up and running on the Wii U where 8 Player Smash had it's home.

3DS was their issue and as soon as it was out of the picture for Ultimate? They were a given.

Weren't resetera mods and people hinting at ridley too? It's not like he was the only one who said ridley was in

Yeah, people were hinting at Ridley before he jumped in, which makes me think he just road their coat tails and added in his own ****.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Honestly when Sakurai said "don't expect many newcomers" I think he was only talking about the base game.

I expect a good amount of newcomers to be added post-launch.

At least the amount of DLC characters we had in Smash 4

 

[SevenGameSet]

"We all knew Ridley would be in the game" - Captain Hindsight, Strikes back.

 

[Opossum]

Ok, so if Verge is correct I would expect those characters:
1- Simon Belmont
2- King K Rool
3- Decidueye/ Mimikyu/ Incineroar/ Tapu Koko/ Magearna/ Lycanrock/ Gen 7 pokemon is what I mean.
4- Dillon
5- Celica
6- Elma/ Rex and Pyra

If we get more clones, perhaps Chrom and Dark Samus have a chance.

Honestly, likelihood aside, if this were to be the remaining newcomer lineup I'd be over the moon.

 

[RandomAce]

Here’s some food of thought.

Remember when Sakurai played Xenoblade 2 and and praised it around December-January.

By the time this game releases it would be around less than a year since he played the game, leaving him with around 9 months left to finish the development of the game after he played it. By the time E3 came around, it seems a good majority of the game is finished and needs the remaining time to be fully ready to go.

Seeing that do you think Sakurai would’ve spend the remaining time to develop Rex and Pyra, seeing that there was 9 months of development left after he played Xenoblade 2? or even an ARMS character seeing how it’s success came from the end of 2017 as well.

 

[papagenos]

"We all knew Ridley would be in the game" - Captain Hindsight, Strikes back.

yeah honestly without the Verge leak (real or not) I dont think ridley would have had nearly the "hes a sure thing" status he felt like he had during the E3 reveal.

 

[StrangeMann]

If it's true that the konami secret press conference embargo will end wednesday, we'll know if vergeben was right by then. I would like a source for the embargo being ended by wednesday though.
If there are 2 castlevania titles announced after the embargo ends, I'll count simon as extremely likely. Until then, I'm mixed but I think he still has a decent chance. Still don't understand why they showed the press castlevania titles and didn't show the titles at E3?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

"We all knew Ridley would be in the game" - Captain Hindsight, Strikes back.

Not really.

Hindsight is looking at Wii Fit Trainer's sales numbers, etc, etc and saying she was a given and playing with hindsight.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Ice Climbers were up and running, but he never once spoke of them working on 8-Player Smash. It was never a fallacy because there's nothing suggesting they worked right either. That's just looking at it in hindsight. Them working on the Switch with 8-Player Smash =/= Them working on the Wii U with 8-Player Smash. We already knew that a lot of stuff didn't work under 8-Player Smash, as shown by them removing Wii Fit Trainer's joints.

Ridley had a ton of "nope not happening" and was hardly a given coming in. He had a decent chance realistically. Many were extremely surprised by Ridley as well, which should tell you, that no, people did not expect him playable to any large degree. This is just hindsight. The whole "all-star" thing is not a strong argument to begin with. That alone won't get someone in anyway.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Here’s some food of thought.

Remember when Sakurai played Xenoblade 2 and and praised it around December-January.

By the time this game releases it would be around less than a year since he played the game, leaving him with around 9-10 months left to finish the development of the game after he played it. By the time E3 came around, it seems a good majority of the game is finished and needs the remaining time to be fully ready to go.

Seeing that do you think Sakurai would’ve spend the remaining time to develop Rex and Pyra, seeing that there was 9-10 months of development left? or even an ARMS character seeing how it’s success came from the end of 2017 as well.

I don't think Rex & Pyra are gonna be able to make it into the base game. DLC is likely however.

I don't expect a ARMS rep at all honestly, partly because the producer(?) said it was too young for Smash and partly because I fully expect a Spring Man AT.

 

[Lyndis_]

How did this forum go from "Ridley is super unlikely." "Don't count on it" etc; to "Everyone saw Ridley coming, Vergeben was piggybacking" after Just Cause 4 & Jump Force?

 

[StrangeMann]

Honestly, likelihood aside, if this were to be the remaining newcomer lineup I'd be over the moon.

I agree, except replace decidueye with a dk rep. Then it'll be perfect for me.

 

[LunarDistortion]

Ridley has been a part of every other leak I've seen, people forget how often he was included in leaks to get people to believe them a la Tower of Smash.

Ice Climbers coming back could be seen from a mile away, plus the no-cuts thing could easily be a way for him to keep the leak going had it been a port without the "Everyone is back" motto.

I'll stay skeptical, though I do think Simon Belmont has the best chances of any 3rd Party at the moment.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Here’s some food of thought.

Remember when Sakurai played Xenoblade 2 and and praised it around December-January.

By the time this game releases it would be around less than a year since he played the game, leaving him with around 9 months left to finish the development of the game after he played it. By the time E3 came around, it seems a good majority of the game is finished and needs the remaining time to be fully ready to go.

Seeing that do you think Sakurai would’ve spend the remaining time to develop Rex and Pyra, seeing that there was 9 months of development left? or even an ARMS character seeing how it’s success came from the end of 2017 as well.

No. If either Rex or Spring Man weren't planned initially, they won't be put in as last-minute unique characters since the only time that has happened was with Sonic and he was the biggest newcomer request for Brawl and a much more popular video game character than either of them.

 

[papagenos]

Speaking of the vergeben leak, do we have ANY more info on the minecraft part of it?

has he said anything after this besides "simon is coming later"?

I'm really curious cause microsoft being a part of smash not revealed at E3...just seems tough to swallow... simon saved for later while we already KNOW konami is on board seems likely...same for geno or even possibly sora (though i think thatd have been an e3 reveal too he could be the "cloud DLC" character of this game though).

but microsoft involved and not shown? i have trouble buying it and i really want banjo kazooie so i need to know if that was some other source of his he might not still believe or what.

 

[Originality]

Didn't the mods and others who were supposedly hinting at Ridley come back and say they were kidding or that they weren't hinting at all? Iirc Verges the only one who was adamant about Ridleys inclusion, doubling and even trippling down on it. It's also very possible he was told "no cuts" and took that to the logical "no cuts from wii u/3ds" He may have been wrong before but I 100% believe he has a solid insider this time

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I feel like people are putting too much faith into verge just because they want Belmont.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

All I see I say vergeben is just basicly gemusatu 2.0 he got everything right but could be wrong about simon

As for newcomers make a roster later but basicly it's this for the rest of the newcomers

King k rool - the same reason Ridley got in plus sakurai knows about him from the mii costume

Dark Samus (Samus echo) - no assist trophy spotted and the alt is gone the lights on the black one is yellow lights instead of blue lights and vizor as well

A Pokémon rep - it's just up in the air of which one we will get but I think decidueye chances are dead due to ivysaur

Dixie kong (diddy kong echo) or funky kong (DK echo)- I know Dixie would have different stuff than diddy but sakurai originally confirmed diddy and her were suppose to be a duel so the attacks would probably be similar her difference from diddy would be his the gun and jet pack and as for funky has ben promoted quite a bit recently simply and has ben request

Simon - this is if vergeben is right he may have possibly got lucky with Ridley, ice climbers (safe bet), snake and no cuts he only got half points for no cuts because he claimed Wii U/3ds were safe he didn't say anything on the melee/brawl characters who were kicked and also daisy

And if more than six

Retro/wtf character - this always happens in smash a character that nobody will ever see coming for this one my best guess is either a rhythm heaven rep or Ashley from warioware or both (replace Simon with this if vergeben is wrong)

Chrom (echo) - he was originally planned but scraped but it all depends if he's in robins final smashes again or not

 

[N3ON]

Vergeben seemingly has a very weak filter for what he leaks, so once claims of Ridley begin to percolate elsewhere, no, it is not a hugely risky maneuver to echo them. He "leaked" a roster that iirc also had Amaterasu, Zero, and Phoenix Wright. The guy doesn't vet things well. And that's not even to touch on his Street Fighter or Soul Calibur claims. Though I do believe at least his first Ridley source was real.

I'm not saying Ridley was obvious from the jump. Don't twist my words. I'm talking about Verg's propensity to throw **** at a wall. He often regurgitates other claims. And given the volume with which he leaks, that's not super risky. At least with Simon and Minecraft, seemingly no one else did it first.

 

[Curious Villager]

Ridley has been a part of every other leak I've seen, people forget how often he was included in leaks to get people to believe them a la Tower of Smash.

Ice Climbers coming back could be seen from a mile away, plus the no-cuts thing could easily be a way for him to keep the leak going had it been a port without the "Everyone is back" motto.

I'll stay skeptical, though I do think Simon Belmont has the best chances of any 3rd Party at the moment.

Yeah, Its not so much as seeing Ridley coming as much as Ridley has been historically the subject in many leaks since Brawl.

I think I'd probably have been more inclined to believe the leak had he mentioned Young Link and Pichu returning instead of highly demanded veterans like Ice Climbers and Snake.

I'd keep an eye on the leak, but I don't know if I'd treat it as gospel just yet...

 

[Originality]

I feel like people are putting too much faith into verge just because they want Belmont.

I have absolutely no attachment to Simon or Ridley or Minecraft. I'm just looking at what verge has said and what was announced

 

[SlickWylde]

I don't know if I believe Verg or not, but I think he's wrong about Belmont, regardless of whether or not he had real info.

But also, I feel like we're also just arguing in circles now.

New topic:

If Smash had a reboot and was branded as "Biggest gaming icons" (As opposed to just Nintendo Icons) with a roster size of 25 characters or less, who would you choose to be fighters?

 

[papagenos]

I feel like people are putting too much faith into verge just because they want Belmont.

most of my faith in verge POSSIBLY having real info comes from the fact he leaked TMNT in injustice. thats wii fit trainer level unguessablility.

obviously his nintendo insider stuff has been spotty in the past and while i do want simon belmont, its more just that if konamis in and how popular castlevania is... he seems likely without the leak at this point.

so the leak guessing at konamis involvement at all is probably the biggest part of its credibility. many thought snake and konami itself would never be involved again.

also "no cuts" was always vague and like gematsu i can see just a miscommunication there.

what im really curious about though is the minecraft part of the leak cause moicrosoft being involved in smash SHOULD have been an E3 reveal so I want to know what source verge got that from and if he still believes it.