Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[RonNewcomb]

I wanna play the top 5 "guess who's coming to Smash" game too!

1) the Belmont clan, for us old-skool farts.
2) Crash Bandicoot, for the mid-school adults.
3) Minecraft's Steve & friends, for the new bloods.
4) Impa as echo-Sheik, to represent Skyward Sword (and the real reason Ms. Zelda represents aLBW instead of SS)
5) another echo. I could see Evil Ryu or Akuma as a glass-cannon Ryu, with Demon Flip as the down-B, palm-punch instead of donkey kick, and the dodge/roll reskinned as their teleport. Add some electric to the tatsu and some darkness here or there and we're done. (Final Smash is obvious.)

I really hope we get the whole Belmont clan as a single character, like the koopalings-as-BowJow. Richter, Simon, Trevor, Julius, Juste, Christopher, Leon, and ...Gabriel.

 

[Knight Dude]

If gimmicks = potential, then let me remind you:

Spoiler: visual aid

View attachment 148518

Gimmick might not be the right word, but yeah, I like Weavil too. splitting himself in two is already crazy, looking like Fulgore's cousin is even better.

I'm telling you man, if another Metroid game gets multiplayer, I want these freak-shows back.

nintendo has successfully run the best rebranding campaign i've ever seen.


snake had his mines taken away because in causal play ffa that cannot be fun to play.
almost everything about smash ultimate is about quality of life: presentation, characters, stages, movesets, animations. the smallest things have been refined. snake using a landmine that couldnt be seen easily in FFA just is annoying. i know its the main reason i hated him as a kid.

That, and while a good move, serves a similar enough function to his down special of being an explosive trap set into the ground. Personally, I'm just glad his Up-Smash is back.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

*Sakurai adds Ridley* "Thanks, Sakurai!"

*Sakurai adds Kraid* "METROID BIAS!"

I'd take Kraid if only to re-enact the animated version of StarBomb's song Regretroid.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

i'm aware this is a total joke but it needs to be said:

Ridley being "to big" was a meme after sakurai said thats why he couldnt include him, yes ridley is big but... ya know what im not gonna get into that we are past that now... point being ridley being large isnt exactly his defining trait.

Ridley being too big actually was a meme long before that. It just got verified as being real when Sakurai noted his size was a legitimate issue to him.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

If we are getting any other metroid rep non dlc it's dark samus as a echo character

Alt not there (the black one is the incorrect light colors they are yellow instead of blue)

And no assist trophy sighting

Wait, is there a new leak from Vergeben?

He doubled down on Simon and said the minimum newcomers is half a dozen (six) and this excluded inkling, daisy and Ridley

Edit: sorry double post

 

[Will]

I wanna play the top 5 "guess who's coming to Smash" game too!

1) the Belmont clan, for us old-skool farts.
2) Crash Bandicoot, for the mid-school adults.
3) Minecraft's Steve & friends, for the new bloods.
4) Impa as echo-Sheik, to represent Skyward Sword (and the real reason Ms. Zelda represents aLBW instead of SS)
5) another echo. I could see Evil Ryu or Akuma as a glass-cannon Ryu, with Demon Flip as the down-B, palm-punch instead of donkey kick, and the dodge/roll reskinned as their teleport. Add some electric to the tatsu and some darkness here or there and we're done. (Final Smash is obvious.)

I really hope we get the whole Belmont clan as a single character, like the koopalings-as-BowJow. Richter, Simon, Trevor, Julius, Juste, Christopher, Leon, and ...Gabriel.

It kinda scares me about how 80% of these are third party picks.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Sadly, not many people are liking this, as they don't want too many legal stages

An ironic thing to say, since Smash Wii U didn't have too many stages that were hazard free, unless you went all Omega form.

 

[Sonic Poke]

I think it’s because Sakurai added Sheik first and then decided to give her a transformation move and that’s why Zelda came in second.

Probably explains why Sheik is always better than Zelda in Smash... Sakurai saw Sheik as a ninja so he gave her ninja moves and then had to make up something for Zelda.

Actually the numbers refer to the order the characters were revealed. Sheik appears before Zelda on Melee's intro. And the original 8 are numbered according to the order they appear on the intro. That is why DK is 2 and Samus is 4 despite Kirby and Pikachu being more prominent as the big four with Mario and Link.

 

[P.Kat]

People are still surprised about Ridley and I'm just here like "HOLY ****! PICHUUUU!"

Seriously, the more I think about him the more I'd be okay with Mimikyu not making it in. I love Mimikyu to death don't get me wrong but Pichu's a pretty good "second-best."

I can't wait to see what its charge bar is all about.

I don't think that's a charge bar, but I would rather Pichu than Mimikyu, just my opinion, however for sake those who want him, I still want him in Smash even though I'm rooting more for my Pokémon.

Does Wolf really have a new Moveset? It looked mostly the same for me.

Wolf's specials are still the same (Damn you awkward Side Special why do aim diagonally upward?), they're probably talking about his standard moveset.

This is a very minor change, but I want to point out the cool new distortion that appears on Palutena's spot dodge. It looks waaay better than just disappearing and reappearing. It happens right at the start of this video

I thought that was warp she doesn't always say warp when she uses it, but if that's air dodge then it's looking pretty clean. I always wanted to main Palutena but her horrible end lag, poor frame rate, and being forced to use her standard, boring specials online kept me away from her. Sakurai seem to have taken care of all that was holding Palutena back and buff her as a bonus I'm pretty happy about that.

 

[Knight Dude]

An ironic thing to say, since Smash Wii U didn't have too many stages that were hazard free, unless you went all Omega form.

Yeah sorry, but **** that. I don't want to see nothing Animal Crossing stages and get lucky to maybe see Final Destination.

It's like Vanilla Marvel 3 only being played on the Training stage because it's the fastest thing to pick since random wasn't the first option.

 

[blackghost]

An ironic thing to say, since Smash Wii U didn't have too many stages that were hazard free, unless you went all Omega form.

if the argument "too many legal stages" gains ANY following when this game comes out that will be one of the dumbest things the competitive community has ever done. the complaint has always been "we need more choices."
stage bans are not for you to control where you will absolutely end up they are there for you to remove one place where you simply CANNOT from a competitive perspective fight.
every stage that has survived a full games life should be legal and some bans may need to be revisited as a hazard off toggle shifts A LOT of stage to be competitive viable (mega man and clouds stage come to mind as the brawl metroid stage that flips).

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Actually the numbers refer to the order the characters were revealed. Sheik appears before Zelda on Melee's intro. And the original 8 are numbered according to the order they appear on the intro. That is why DK is 2 and Samus is 4 despite Kirby and Pikachu being more prominent as the big four with Mario and Link.

I thought the original 8 were ordered in order of appearance in their own games (Donkey Kong came out first, then the Early NES games before Fox, Kirby and Pikachu). Maybe Smash 64's intro was already done with this in mind if it's the same order.

I really hope we can organize the CSS by series like on the site. I could try to get used to it, but yea Shiek before Zelda is weird to me. Even if Shiek and Link have the same style.

 

[Will]

There's a thing as "too many legal stages"?That sounds hella hypocritical. Why would you not want a large diverse set of stages?

 

[Deleted member]

Well then... Super Smash Bros. Ultimate looked great, graphics, are grand, speed is perfect characters, assist trophies, stages, ECT look grand. Looking forward to more info. Finally Daisy and Ridley are in great news.

My mains Mario and Link look super snazzy, and rad loving the addition of Cappy to Mario's taunts or aerial moves. Even though it's just him appearing for a second. The builder, and wedding outfits are fly as heck.

Link his remote bombs and champions tunic are great. Loving the new look can't wait to play as him soon him and Mario.

Overall great news Super Smash Bros. Ultimate can't wait to play you.

 

[LunarDistortion]

Why are people hating on the amount of choice in this game? Isn't that good thing? I love that they're bringing back all the fighters, stages, items plus that they're making even more like the battlefield and hazard-free versions. What would the point of not having them be? If you don't like them don't use them, but the more the merrier I say.

 

[Deleted member]

Uh Oh.

It's ok. Don't worry about it.
I heard that at minimum, there are at least a half dozen characters still to be revealed. But I don't know who any of them outside of Simon are yet.

Oh and also, someone did a question if any of these remaining characters were Echo Fighters, and he answered with this:

That I'm not sure of yet. Sorry. I am working on trying to find out though

Also someone asked about the Konami games for E3 and this was his response:

I don't know when exactly he will be, but I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to be thematic and reveal him in October for Halloween since Castlevania has that vibe to it.
According to Giant Bomb, whatever Konami showed yesterday at E3 is embargoed until Wednesday. So it was a behind closed doors thing from the sound of it, which is most likely one of those two Castlevania titles.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I think the fact Vergeben is now saying half a dozen newcomers is very telling that he's been piggybacking his way to victory this entire time.

He got Ridley right, now he's heard Sakurai's quote and adding it to his leak to make the rest of it seems ''real."

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

There's a thing as "too many legal stages"?That sounds hella hypocritical. Why would you not want a large diverse set of stages?

It just makes the ban phase a nightmare trying to keep track of everything. There's a way to organize the process, such as organizing by starter and counterpick. But as a competitive player, I can understand not wanting a list larger than ~12 stages or so. Just becomes too much to manage.

 

[Pacack]

As a competitive player, give me all the competitive stages. I don't care how long banning takes.

 

[Ura]

I like there being a lot of legal stages. It forces competitive players to get out of their comfort zone.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

As a competitive player, give me all the competitive stages. I don't care how long banning takes.

I'm not trying to say that having a ton of stages is bad. In fact I would love to have a ton of playable stages. I'm sure we can adapt to a large stage list, I'm just also considering how tough it's going to be to

A) Remember what stages are legal so you know what to ban.
B) Remember what matchups are good on which stage. There's going to be ~70 matchups to keep track of.

Obviously these things aren't the end of the world, and don't really threaten the competitive integrity of the game. I'm just thinking that as far as creating a standardized ruleset, more stages make this harder. How many bans are appropriate? If we give too many bans, is the person picking the stage forced to go to a stage that isn't really much of a counterpick? If you don't get enough bans, are you forced to play on a stage that is bad for your end of the matchup no matter what?

Stages are great. I played all the super cool and fun balanced stages in PM/Legacy XP, but I can see some issues with a giant stagelist. It all comes down to how the community feels after they've had some time to play.

 

[RileyXY1]

I think the fact Vergeben is now saying half a dozen newcomers is very telling that he's been piggybacking his way to victory this entire time.

He got Ridley right, now he's heard Sakurai's quote and adding it to his leak to make the rest of it seems ''real."

He's not counting the newcomers that are already revealed. That would add up to a total of 9 newcomers.

 

[Sonic Poke]

One thing that caught my attention was that the only returning veterans that appeared before the 'Everyone is here!' title were Ice Climbers and Pokemon Trainer. That makes me think that only those two would be in Smash 4 if wasn't for the 3DS limitations and that those two cuts were the hardest to make.

 

[Questionmark222]

So what's the general consensus on the Vergeben leak now? I was skeptical about it before E3, but it seems pretty real to me now.

 

[RileyXY1]

So what's the general consensus on the Vergeben leak now? I was skeptical about it before E3, but it seems pretty real to me now.

Legitimate, it got Snake, ICs, Ridley, and no cuts right.

 

[Pacack]

I'm not trying to say that having a ton of stages is bad. In fact I would love to have a ton of playable stages. I'm sure we can adapt to a large stage list, I'm just also considering how tough it's going to be to

A) Remember what stages are legal so you know what to ban.
B) Remember what matchups are good on which stage. There's going to be ~70 matchups to keep track of.

Obviously these things aren't the end of the world, and don't really threaten the competitive integrity of the game. I'm just thinking that as far as creating a standardized ruleset, more stages make this harder. How many bans are appropriate? If we give too many bans, is the person picking the stage forced to go to a stage that isn't really much of a counterpick? If you don't get enough bans, are you forced to play on a stage that is bad for your end of the matchup no matter what?

Stages are great. I played all the super cool and fun balanced stages in PM/Legacy XP, but I can see some issues with a giant stagelist. It all comes down to how the community feels after they've had some time to play.

The issue is simply that several potential stages adds variety to the game, which has to be planned for.

I can easily draw up a ban method that works for any number of stages. In fact, I likely will do just that when this game is released with my TO. It's just math, really.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I just realized that if Smash Run does return, customizations have to come back as well, because you can't use Smash Run powers if customizations are turned off.

 

[RileyXY1]

The issue is simply that several potential stages add variety to the game, which has to be planned for.

I can easily draw up a ban method that works for any number of stages. In fact, I likely will do just that when this game is released with my TO. It's just math, really.

And, you're acting like more variety is a bad thing? More stage variety would help a lot in competitive. We wouldn't have to look at the same stages over and over again.

 

[osby]

Legitimate, it got Snake, ICs, Ridley, and no cuts right.

Why it doesn't just says no cuts and Ridley?

 

[SlickWylde]

No, I mean last game also buffed a lot of fighters and made it more competitive.

I believe he was referring to the fact that this is more like Project M in that it's iterative. There's not as large of a jump from Sm4sh to Ultimate as there was from Brawl to Sm4sh. Similar speed and mechanics with tweaks, and largely the same roster, but with buffs and nerfs.

Edit: Replied to the wrong thing. I was trying to say why someone said Ultimate is like Project M.

 

[N3ON]

So what's the general consensus on the Vergeben leak now?

Best stance seems to be keep it in mind, but don't treat it as gospel.

If we get the more risky aspects confirmed, i.e. either Simon or Minecraft, then it's probably safe to buy in.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

He's not counting the newcomers that are already revealed. That would add up to a total of 9 newcomers.

Yeah.

Still not buying it. The fact that as low as 9 newcomers is possible and he has a source telling him there's a possibility one of those is Minecraft?

That's kind of a red flag to me as well.

And I'm someone who'd be okay with the possibility of playable Steve. I just don't find it very likely if the amount of newcomers is six left.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

The issue is simply that several potential stages adds variety to the game, which has to be planned for.

I can easily draw up a ban method that works for any number of stages. In fact, I likely will do just that when this game is released with my TO. It's just math, really.

Yeah I mean it's doable for sure. And I hope there's an effective way to have 30+ legal stages. Again, we'll really just have to wait and see how the players feel after the game comes out and the meta has some time to develop.

 

[Knight Dude]

So what's the general consensus on the Vergeben leak now? I was skeptical about it before E3, but it seems pretty real to me now.

I'll be more likely to believe it if Simon Belmont is actually a character this time around.

Because this guy has tried to leak things before, and his record is spotty. If you follow DBFZ at all, you'd know that he said Hit and Goku Black were DLC, but they were actually base roster. He also mentioned Zarbon too, who's no where in the files, unlike the other DLC characters, like Cooler who at least has a name file and nothing else.

For MvCI, he mentioned a bunch of X-Men, Green Goblin and Street Fighter characters were supposed to be added, and unfortunately that hasn't happened.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

The only risky risky thing vergeben got right was Snake and no cuts, but the most telling thing to me?

He said no cuts and not ''Everyone is back."

I'd be more willing to see that as a bullet point of him being legit.

 

[RileyXY1]

I'll be more likely to believe it if Simon Belmont is actually a character this time around.

Because this guy has tried to leak things before, and his record is spotty. If you follow DBFZ at all, you'd know that he said Hit and Goku Black were DLC, but they were actually base roster. He also mentioned Zarbon too, who's no where in the files, unlike the other DLC characters, like Cooler who at least has a name file and nothing else.

For MvCI, he mentioned a bunch of X-Men, Green Goblin and Street Fighter characters were supposed to be added, and unfortunately that hasn't happened.

Yeah. I'm gonna take Vergeben with a grain of salt. He may be credible, but he has had a ton of misfires. Here's more blunders from Vergeben:

Said that the 2018 Pokemon games are Gen 8.
Said that Metroid Prime 4 would be shown off last January.
Said that The World Ends With You 2 is a thing.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The only risky risky thing vergeben got right was Snake and no cuts, but the most telling thing to me?

He said no cuts and not ''Everyone is back."

I'd be more willing to see that as a bullet point of him being legit.

Well, he said "no cuts from Wii U and 3DS". His leaker probably didn't even know about the Daisy stuff.

He's definitely spotty at this point, though it's fine to keep an eye on it, since it's still possible we get Simon and Minecraft content. Definitely worth being skeptical here.

 

[StrangeMann]

Uh Oh.


Oh and also, someone did a question if any of these remaining characters were Echo Fighters, and he answered with this:


Also someone asked about the Konami games for E3 and this was his response:

Can you link to where Giant Bomb said this?

 

[Dragoncharystary]

It's funny how the community is so divided on Vergeben. Right after E3 I posted something about my skepticism on the leak in this thread and I was immediately brought down on it by someone so yesterday I poseted something saying it might be true and then someone brought me down for saying that as well.

 

[SlickWylde]

I really don't think saying Ridley IS Playable adamantly along with saying Snake and Ice Climbers are back in is a safe thing at all. Whether or not he's legit, I cannot disagree more with that sentiment. If he did "piggyback", then I think he really believed the other leakers, and really thought it would happen. Most people (I even made a bet against it) did not believe that Simon, Ridley, Ice Climbers and Snake would be in it.

Could still be fake. But stop trying to act like "Now that Ridley's in, we all knew it would happen anyway, safe leak." It wasn't.