Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[ned_ballad]

Dark Samus was such a cool assist trophy though. And her losing the abilities she had their by becoming an Echo Fighter would be lame.

Her assist trophy used Samus’animations anyway, so they could reference her assist move set in her echo moveset

We aren’t really sure what the extent of an echo character is. It may just mean sharing 100% combat animations, but those moves could have drastically different functions

 

[Hinata]

Still waiting on being able to rep my Smash Ultimate main in my posts.

Anyway, based on her notable absence from the Assist Trophy lineup, the only character I'd be willing to bet money on being in the game is Ashley.

 

[StrangeMann]

The only character I’m 99% sure is getting in is Dark Samus.

I actually think we're seeing Simon and Chorus kids this time.

Simon because... Dasvergeben (and after bomberman's deconfirmation, very likely would be the second konami rep anyway.). Also Sakurai has stated he was greatly inspired by the castlevania series on NES.

Chorus Kids were presumably cut from smash 4 (with it being extremely likely the gematsu leak was a genuine leak of an early development list of planned fighters) for the same reason ice climbers were, and with the ice climbers back it's incredibly likely we are seeing them this time.

Some other predictions:

I don't see mimikyu after we got pichu back, having 3 pokemon that look like pikachu in the roster seem to be a bit much. Decidueye is also considerably less likely in my opinion because of ivysaur returning and the fact that there's 5 archer characters (3 links and 2 pits who use bow and arrows, not even counting final smashes). Lycanroc is considerably more likely, although it fills a similar dog-like rep that Duck hunt dog, lucario, and wolf fill already. I think we might not see a pokemon newcomer at all after the pokemon roster increased from 6 to 9 (50% increase).

Dark samus would be a pretty neat Echo though. Her alt and assist trophy don't appear to be in the E3 demo, so maybe.

Although I don't think it's likely, I would love dry bowser to get a buffed version of the old bowser's moveset (brawl/melee bowser).

I think if K Rool is the DK newcomer, there's a decent chance Dixie kong is an echo of diddy because his tail attack was removed. There's still a pretty decent chance dixie is her own character as the DK newcomer on her own though.

Impa being a possible shiek echo is pretty likely IMO

And finally... I would also say that I think Elma, Bandana Waddle Dee, Geno, and Rayman stand a decent chance as well as newcomers, but I don't expect all of my possible predictions to be in.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

There was a game explain video where they spoke to Bill Trinen about that and he said "They had plans"...so idk what that means. But if they do 1 for every week day it could last till late August, early September and then maybe there will be a new direct with a new reveal? Probably not lol.

Also is anyone else having trouble looking at the Smash site on mobile? Especially the blog, I don't see any updates :/

Clearly it means that they're going to unveil that the entire cast has 1-2 echo duplicates so they can keep giving us updates.

We received many complaints regarding our former pic-of-the-day series not regularly giving information about new elements of the game. We have listened to our fans and learned from our mistake. You asked for this.

 

[Whababa]

What's sheik's final smash?

Sheiks final smash is around 1:56 right Here

 

[Iridium]

For more meme material, when the game comes out, check Pit's Star KO. Apparently he says "I never learned how to read!". If only there was a simultaneous amount of Pits doing that in 8-Player Smash.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

For more meme material, when the game comes out, check Pit's Star KO. Apparently he says "I never learned how to read!". If only there was a simultaneous amount of Pits doing that in 8-Player Smash.

Info was already found, and it’s still another reason why Pit is perfection...and another thing Palutena needs to teach the poor angel

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

You can go for anything between 4 and 8 (for total 6~10 Newcomers)... You can also add Echo Fighters.

Okay, I’ll do 8, because I’m optimistic, and I know DLC will be a thing later on.

So...
1. King K. Rool (Ballot/fanservice)
2. Dixie Kong (Echo of Diddy; which is sadly what she could be relegated to.)
3. Lycanroc or Mimikyu
4. Paper Mario
5. Impa (HW design) (Possible Echo of Sheik)
6. Rhythm Heaven character (Chorus Kids, Tibby, or Tap Trial Girl.)
7. Bandana Dee
8. Isabelle (Possible Echo of Villager, but please God and Sakurai don’t let that happen. She’s got so much potential. At the very least make her a semi-clone along the lines of Lucas or Wolf where hardly any other moves are shared between her and her base (Villager), but you can still tell enough.)

I’m not 100% sold of the Verg leaks yet.

Also, I’m throwing in DLC because why not?
Most likely candidates:
1. Rex & Pyra
2. SpringMan
3. A character from Fire Emblem: Three Houses
4. Sora (Kingdom Hearts) (This one is a little pipedream hope.)

 

[Deleted member]

Her assist trophy used Samus’animations anyway

Um....which animations of Samus' involve flying and punching the ground?

 

[Murlough]

Clearly it means that they're going to unveil that the entire cast has 1-2 echo duplicates so they can keep giving us updates.

wait wait wait. Did Sakurai say that about this game's update of the day thing?

EDIT: Removed rant for being unnecessary.

 

[Whababa]

8. Isabelle (Possible Echo of Villager, but please God and Sakurai don’t let that happen.

Why'd you say god and sakurai when they're the same person?

 

[Ultinarok]

Hey everyone, Im back from the abyss. Haven't been on here since shortly after smash 4 launched, as I was busy with the game and also life. So chances are most of you don't know me at all. Blame my lack of a working computer, and using my phone is ultra laggy and frustrating. But I had to log back in because this new Smash looks amazing.

Wolfs back? 80+ stages? Fast and exciting gameplay? 8 player smash again? Ridley wasn't too big? Shulk can freely toggle arts on the fly? Its gold.

Some basic thoughts I have about the characters I've been reading about on this thread:

1. Waluigi: Love him and his shenanigans, would have been endlessly entertaining, but I don't mind that he's not here. He will always live in our hearts, and the spinoff games have enough wah for my taste.
2. Decidueye: Cool Pokemon, I feel his popularity and the creative potential of his moveset, between his design, spirit shackle, z move etc, is a definite tip in his favor. I think he'd fit right in, and he has my vote over Mimikyu, Lycanroc etc. even though I like those mons.
3. Shadow: Hate the character, exists entirely to be cool and edgy and appeal to young teen boys who find Sonic not quite brooding enough. That's probably a little harsh, but the Sonic franchise does its characters no favors in my eyes, especially recently. If he's in as an echo, I won't mind. If he's not in, fine by me.
4. Dark Samus: Hasn't been seen correct? Could be a cool semi clone, but probably not a good echo fighter. Hope to see a full roster addition here if they do it.
5. Dixie: Personally always loved Dixie, would rather see her over Rool but hopefully as a semi clone also. Making her stand out in such a big cast is what I feel may hold her back; she lacks the unique novelty of most new roster additions.
6. K Rool: Bring him on. I like Dixie more but Rool is cool, even if the fanbase can be...questionable at times (I've been reading up on it a bit).
7. Simon Belmont: Would be cool, but giving vague predictions that have a decent chance at success and calling it insider info does not make a leak legitimate. Our human nature clings to confirmation biases, so everyone is going to confirm someone's legitimacy if it matches their hopes or expectations or provides easy answers to issues that cause dissonance. Thus, I don't buy the Ridley and Simon leaker; I think he just got lucky, but I'd be happy to be wrong and see some Castlevania representation.
8. Elma/Rex: Loved the first game, love Shulk, but dont care much for the sequels art style. That said, I also haven't played either sequel so I cant judge them as games. I both dont mind, and also expect, either Elma or Rex. Xenoblade is becoming a full fledged IP, so new representation seems like a no brainer. I'd be happy to try them out.

However, right now I'm just loving having Wolf back.

 

[Radical Bones]

Here is a preliminary draft of character that could work as Echo fighters based on how they operate - same size, weight and attacks, but with a new skin and personality. Please let me know if there are any I missed. I know some SHOULDN'T be Echo's, I just wanted to create a list of those that COULD.

Bowser

• Dry Bowser

Peach

• Daisy

Bowser Jr.

• Koopaling (alts.)

Dr. Mario

• Dr. Luigi

Sheik

• Impa

Ganondorf

• Toon Ganondorf (WW style)

Samus

• Dark Samus

Meta Knight

• Galacta Knight (alt colours)

Fox/ Falco

• Slippy
• Peppy

Wolf

• Appropriate Star Wolf members

Ness/ Lucas

• Ninten

Captain Falcon

• Blood Falcon (alt.)
• Black Shadow

Pit

• Dark Pit

Donkey Kong

• Funky Kong
• Kiddie Kong
• Donkey Kong Jr.

Diddy Kong

• Dixie Kong

Marth

• Lucina

Ike

• Chrom

Olimar

• Alph (alt.)
• Louie
• Brittany
• Charlie

Little Mac

• While there are many boxers in the series, they are all much bigger than Little Mac so this will not work in line with the Echo Fighter definition

Villager

• Isabelle
• Assorted Animal Crossing Townsfolk

Mega Man

• Proto Man (Mega Man’s Final Smash confirmed)

Sonic the Hedgehog

• Tails
• Shadow
• Knuckles (AT confirmed)
• All other characters in the series that have spin dash

Pac-Man

• Ms. Pac-Man

Shulk

• Dunban (Shulk’s Final Smash confirmed)

Ryu

• Ken
• Akuma
• Evil Ryu

Bayonetta

• Jeanne

Solid Snake

• Big Boss
• Liquid Snake

Inklings

• Octolings
• Pearl
• Marina
• Callie (AT confirmed)
• Marie (AT confirmed)

 

[BluePikmin11]

I plan on making a second prediction roster analysis, I want finish it by the end of June. This time though, I am going to accept my losses, even in the ones I am most confident about. Thankfully, there is not as much to write since I made substantial analyses for Chorus Kids, Lycanroc, Geno, Hanafuda, Elma, Simon, Octolings, Layton, and Isabelle. Literally the only things I gotta analyze is K. Rool, Skull Kid, Shadow, Dark Samus, and Excitebiker. I am currently iffy on the latter three at the moment. And the last one may not be as interesting to analyze. But it will be fun writing passionately for Smash speculation again.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Can you imagine if they nonchalantly revealed K. Rool as an assist trophy?

 

[Whababa]

Meta Knight

• Galacta Knight

Isnt galacta knight already a skin?

 

[Shroob]

I really hate this mindset that's sprung up lately of "We didn't see X as an assist trophy, that must mean they're playable!"

We've only seen like 25 assist trophies out of 50+, that's not even 50% of the assist trophy roster.

Just because they didn't show up in the demo, doesn't make characters like Dark Samus, Shadow, etc guaranteed.

 

[ned_ballad]

Um....which animations of Samus' involve flying and punching the ground?

Flying is unique, but her slam is just a modified Samus’ down tilt

Her other attacks are Samus’ up smash and missile animations, slightly modified

 

[CannonStreak]

BTW, Which characters do you predict?

For me...

King K. Rool
Simon Belmont
Rayman
Dark Samus
Pokemon Rep
Elma
Bandana Dee

DLC

Rex + Pyra
Spring Man
Geno
Fire Emblem Rep

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Why'd you say god and sakurai when they're the same person?

FOR EMPHASIS! I just want Isabelle not to relegated to a glorified alternate costume. I know they’d likely have a lot of similarities, but there’s still so much that could be pulled from Animal Crossing, and things unique to Isabelle herself.

 

[Murlough]

I really hate this mindset that's sprung up lately of "We didn't see X as an assist trophy, that must mean they're playable!"

We've only seen like 25 assist trophies out of 50+, that's not even 50% of the assist trophy roster.

Just because they didn't show up in the demo, doesn't make characters like Dark Samus, Shadow, etc guaranteed.

Who is saying they are guaranteed? People like some of the characters and use the fact that we haven't seen them returning as ATs as a sign. Whats wrong with that? If that is unacceptable to discuss then what is?

I like that I haven't seen Ashley yet, and I'm going to use that as a reason to hope for her. I don't really understand what you expect from anyone. Are we supposed to ignore it? I'm actually lost.

 

[Ultinarok]

I really hate this mindset that's sprung up lately of "We didn't see X as an assist trophy, that must mean they're playable!"

We've only seen like 25 assist trophies out of 50+, that's not even 50% of the assist trophy roster.

Just because they didn't show up in the demo, doesn't make characters like Dark Samus, Shadow, etc guaranteed.

I can agree. I feel Dark Samus is getting attention now because the Samus costume was confirmed to be removed, and Ridley is intoo (meaning Metroid is a bit more in the spotlight than before) on top of no AT. Meanwhile, Shadow rides off of the confirmation of a new AT from Sonic in the form of Knuckles. Not much to go by, but it makes some people believe he's been 'promoted' possibly.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Isnt galacta knight already a skin?

Indeed he is

Who is saying they are guaranteed? People like some of the characters and use the fact that we haven't seen them as Assists again as a sign. Whats wrong ith that? If that is unacceptable to discuss then what is?

I like that I haven't seen Ashley, yet and I'm going to use that as a reason to hope for her. I don't really understand what you expect from anyone. Are we supposed to ignore it? I'm actually lost.

And then those who are confirmed as AT will break others hearts

 

[Arcadenik]

Considering what Sakurais done for the entire cast, I want to say he's focusing on pleasing as many people as possible this time around, pure fanservice and no gimmicks for the sake of gimmicks. So I have a question. If you had to pick a single character JUST because of a gimmick they could bring in, who'd it be? I'd add Sol Badguy from Guilty Gear and have his gimmick be air dashing

Gimmick? Hmm...

Meowth as a Coin Battle fighter

Imagine Meowth battling like he is always in a Coin Battle... even when the match rules say it is not a Coin Battle.

Yeah, like that.

Coins come out flying everywhere every time Meowth hits opponents or gets hit. Meowth then picks up the coins and uses them to power up his special moves. It is a reference to how the held item Amulet Coin doubles the money received if the holding Pokémon joins a battle.

Neutral Special - Pay Day

• Normal Pay Day would have Meowth throwing one coin.
• Powered up Pay Day would have Meowth throwing many coins like Pokeball Meowth does in Brawl and SSB4. But then he goes back to normal.

Side Special - Fury Swipes

• Normal Fury Swipes would have Meowth pouncing on his opponent and starts scratching them two times and few coins scatter everywhere.
• Powered up Fury Swipes would have Meowth pouncing on his opponent and starts scratching them five times and many coins scatter everywhere. But then he goes back to normal.

Down Special - Payback

• Normal Payback would have Meowth charging the coin on his forehead (this is another way to power up without coins) but he has to stay still while doing that.
• Powered up Payback would have Meowth exploding and many coins scatter everywhere like Pokeball Meowth does in Smash 64. But then he goes back to normal.
• If Meowth gets hit while charging Payback, Meowth automatically explodes and few coins scatter everywhere (since the charge was incomplete) and Meowth must start the charging over again. The automatic explosion is like an emergency counter.

Up Special - Feint Attack

• Normal Feint Attack would have Meowth recovering and scratching opponents on the way up. Few coins scatter everywhere when Meowth scratches opponents.
• Powered up Feint Attack would have Meowth recovering and scratching opponents on the way up... but if opponents physically attack Meowth, he will always sucker punch them and meteor smash them down (I don't think we ever had an Up+B counter) and many coins scatter everywhere. But then he goes back to normal.

Final Smash - Meowth's Party

• Meowth plays his famous red-and-white guitar. Many Pokémon appear in front of the stage. They dance to the music and throw coins at the stage, hitting opponents and powering up Meowth. Meowth explodes like Smash 64 Meowth does and scatters coins all over the screen, launching opponents away.

Going back to normal motivates Meowth players to collect coins so they can power up their special moves. I think it makes sense for Meowth to collect coins in Smash. Meowth loves collecting coins. It's consistent with what Meowth's Pokedex entries say.

The day Meowth finally gets in Smash will be known as Meowth's Pay Day.

 

[Polan]

Can you imagine if they nonchalantly revealed K. Rool as an assist trophy?

if he isn't in as a character, he will probably be an assist/boss. it really does seem that sakurai will try to get everyone in this game, as a character or as something else.

 

[Garteam]

Now that E3 has officially winded down, I decided to redo my prediction roster based on the information we now know about Super Smash Bros Ultimate:

Spoiler

For comparison, here is my prediction roster prior to E3:

Spoiler

Additionally, here is a list of changes between the original and new roster, as well as some justification for changes in character choice.

Spoiler

Miscellaneous changes​

• Addition of Daisy and the cut veterans
• Updating every confirmed character to their Ultimate art
• Moved the echo fighters to the bottom of the rosters and gave them a yellow outline to denote their status as an echo character

Cuts from previous roster​

• Ayumi: Given the steep competition for newcomer spots in Smash Ultimate, I just wasn't about to find a place for Ayumi without having to cut characters who are more relevant and requested. Every previous Smash game has had some character that comes completely out of left field to surprise, but this doesn't feel like its going to be the case for Smash Ultimate. In a game where there's 15 newcomers, a wacky newcomer idea like a Japanese schoolgirl who solves mysteries fits in a lot well. However, in a roster with only 8 unique newcomers, other idea have to be prioritize over Ayumi.
• Takamaru: He's an assist trophy, sadly. I guess that Mysterious Murasame Castle reboot will have to happen before Takamaru gets a chance to Smash.
• Decidueye: Part of Decidueye's appeal was having a sense of completion in the roster by having fully evolved versions of a starter from every type. While that still would stand in the current roster, this idea loses a lot of luster now that Charizard isn't a solo fighter and Pokemon Trainer is now representing the trinity of starter types. I've always felt that Lycanroc was the most likely Alola Pokemon to make the roster, but I still liked Decidueye and I figured Sun and Moon were big enough games to justify double dipping regarding character. But in a game with limited newcomers, double dipping to get Decidueye is much harder to justify when there's plenty of newcomers from other games that could work instead.
• Pyra: A lot of what I said about Decidueye applies to Pyra. A Xenoblade 2 character is much easier to justify in a roster where character spots are more plentiful, but in a roster with 8 newcomers she's a lot more difficult to find room for. We've seen absolutely no Xenoblade Chronicles 2 content, which could really mean one of two things: either they're hiding it for a character reveal or they really is very little Xenoblade 2 content. Either way, I think seeing a Xenoblade character has gone from a near guarentee to something that's chance seems rather slim at this moment.
• Erdrick: This was probably the most difficult cut from my roster. Not only is Erdrick one of my most wanted characters in generally, but I still think that a Dragon Quest character is something that stands a strong chance of happening, given the series' popularity, historical relevance, and the fact that Square Enix is already involved in Smash. I really torn between whether or not to keep Erdrick as a fighter, but I still cut him. Ultimately, there's just not enough demand for a Dragon Quest character to justify Erdrick's spot on a 7 newcomer roster. Additionally, there is another Square Enix character that feels more likely given that character's fan demand and the direction that Smash Ultimate is taking.

Newcomers​

• Captain Toad: Funny enough, I'm starting with the newcomer I probably have the least amount of faith in regarding their addition to the roster, seeing how he's among the least requested of the other newcomers and the increased prescience of Toad in Princess Peach's moveset. That being said, Captain Toad still has quite a bit going for him. He has a recent spinoff, he continues to appear frequently in Mario games, and his lack of jumping prowess would make an interesting moveset. Additionally, Captain Toad is a completely separate entity of the Toads in Peach and Daisy's moveset. Really, the only thing the good ol' Captain has going against him is the low number of newcomers this time, but I still think his resume is impressive enough to justify his inclusion.
• King K. Rool: It's extremely apparent that Sakurai is really listening to common fan requests and ideas this time, as seen by things such as the option to toggle stage hazards, Ganondorf finally getting his sword, the return of directional air-dodges, and and the nerfing of rolls as a defensive option. It's fairly reasonable to assume this emphasis on popularity in decision making has also spread to the roster, given the inclusion of Ridley, one of the most fan-requested characters of all time. As such, King K. Rool seems like the next logical step, given his status as the last member of the "big 3" to not be in Smash. He has a fan outcry for inclusion that could rival Ridley's. Sakurai is also aware of the character, given the K. Rool DLC Mii costume in Smash for Wii U/3DS
• Bandana Dee: Bandana Dee has secured himself as a spot as the fourth member of the main Kirby crew, behind the 3 we already have in Smash. Additionally, Dee has actually had a pretty large outcry for his inclusion in Smash. He placed fourth in Source Gaming's Mega Smash Poll, he placed second on the Rate Their Chances threads' most wanted list, and he was fourth on Source Gaming's data for the most wanted DLC characters in Japan. Given the emphasis on popularity this time, Bandana Dee seems to have a pretty solid case for his inclusion.
• Lycanroc: I still think Sun/Moon are going to get a rep, given how they were coming out about 3-4 months after the project plan was finished. Of all the Alola Pokemon, I think Lycanroc ultimately has the most factors for its inclusion. Lycanroc has reasonable popularity in Japan, coming 5th in Nintendo Dream's most popular Alola 'mons. Additionally, Ash's Lycanroc has proven to be his ace in this season of the anime, taking a roll similar to Greninja and Charizard. Finally, Rockruffs are everywhere both in Alola and in Sun/Moon's marketing, adding a little bit push to Lycanroc's presence.
• Simon Belmont: It's looking like DasVergeben was pretty bang on with his leak, getting both the return of Ice Climbers and Snake, the inclusion of Ridley, and the lack of cuts right. As such, Simon feels kind of inevitable, even if he wasn't at E3
• Geno: The only character I added to this roster. Geno's popularity is near Ridley levels, especially in the Brawl days. Despite only appearing once in a 22-year old game, fans still clamour for the inclusion of this possessed doll. Additionally, Sakurai has stated interest in including Geno in the past,even giving him a Mii Costume in Wii U/3DS. All these factors, combined with the emphasis on popularity this time around, really makes me think Sakurai will blow our minds again and give us Geno.

Echo Fighters​

• Predicting the number of echo fighters can be kinda tricky, so I decided to air on the side of caution and have 5 echo fighters in my roster. I figured since Wii U/3DS introduced 3 echo fighters, Ultimate will also introduce 3 echo fighters alongside the returning Lucina and Dark Pit (with one of these fighters being the already announced Daisy)
• Additionally, I decided to keep the echo fighters in their own section of the roster. We've seen many times that Sakurai is trying to emphasize that these characters are not newcomers in the traditional way, as seen by the fact echoes aren't numbered with the rest of the characters and the trailer stating that these characters are largely extras based on other characters. I figured that keeping echo fighters in their section of the roster would help reduce the stigma that the echoes had in Wii U/3DS and that this would help portray in a visual that the echo fighters are extras.
• Hilda: This one is largely based on an observation I had. I thought it was strange that Zelda has her ALBW appearance, yet doesn't have a Hilda alt, seeing how it's one of the more obvious options for her. As such, I'm guessing that Hilda has made the cut as an echo fighter rather than just an alt, similar to Pit's Dark Pit alt getting upgraded to playable status between Brawl and Wii U/3DS.
• Isabelle: This one could step on some toes. I'm well aware of the request to have Isabelle as her own character. However, I still think that an echo fighter position is ultimately more likely, given that Villager already has most elements of Animal Crossing in his moveset. Isabelle is extremely popular and she's placed herself firmly alongside Villager as one of the main faces of Animal Crossing, so I think Sakurai will give her the upgrade to echo fighter to appease her fans.

 

[Shroob]

Who is saying they are guaranteed? People like some of the characters and use the fact that we haven't seen them as Assists again as a sign. Whats wrong ith that? If that is unacceptable to discuss then what is?

I like that I haven't seen Ashley, yet and I'm going to use that as a reason to hope for her. I don't really understand what you expect from anyone. Are we supposed to ignore it? I'm actually lost.

Just saying, shouldn't jump the gun on these kind of things.


People are saying they're "99% sure" or "Sakurai will"

Have we learned nothing from five games now that trying to predict what Sakurai will do is asinine?

Sure, Ashley could be playable, but at the same time, she could just as easily be an Assist Trophy that wasn't seen due to either not being in the demo, or just not seen due to there being 50+ ATs.


People need to remember that it's a demo, not the finished game. It's not going to have every item.

 

[ned_ballad]

I really hate this mindset that's sprung up lately of "We didn't see X as an assist trophy, that must mean they're playable!"

We've only seen like 25 assist trophies out of 50+, that's not even 50% of the assist trophy roster.

Just because they didn't show up in the demo, doesn't make characters like Dark Samus, Shadow, etc guaranteed.

Shadow and Dark Samus have more going for them than just missing as assist trophies

- Both are perfectly suited to be echo characters due to their build and general moveset potential, which is why characters like Dillon or Elec Man aren’t brought up despite being missing.
- Both have secondary reasons people believe they are echoes. For Shadow, it’s because Knuckles is an Assist Trophy, for Dark Samus, it’s because Samus lost her Dark Samus alt color, despite nearly every other Smash 4 character having all their old colors. In fact, I don’t think there’s a single Smash 4 vet that is missing a color, as long as they didn’t get a new alt or a drastic redesign. Which Samus got neither, so, like DK, Mewtwo and Ness, should have all their Smash 4 alts. But she doesn’t. Kind of like how Pit’s black alt was changed in Smash 4 to not look like Dark Pit.
- Both are popular, often requested characters

 

[TonyMyOnly]

The Dark Samus alt should have just been changed to the Phazon suit colors instead of whatever it was changed to

 

[Murlough]

JHave we learned nothing from five games now that trying to predict what Sakurai will do is asinine?

Then what is the point of this thread.

EDIT: RIP isn't called speculation thread anymore.

 

[Pakky]

For my fellow Mewtwo mains.

Is this instantaneous or am I dreaming?

 

[TonyMyOnly]

Dark Samus would be a perfect "echo" fighter

 

[Radical Bones]

Isnt galacta knight already a skin?

Thanks, updated.

 

[Shroob]

Shadow and Dark Samus have more going for them than just missing as assist trophies

- Both are perfectly suited to be echo characters due to their build and general moveset potential, which is why characters like Dillon or Elec Man aren’t brought up despite being missing.
- Both have secondary reasons people believe they are echoes. For Shadow, it’s because Knuckles is an Assist Trophy, for Dark Samus, it’s because Samus lost her Dark Samus alt color, despite nearly every other Smash 4 character having all their old colors. In fact, I don’t think there’s a single Smash 4 vet that is missing a color, as long as they didn’t get a new alt or a drastic redesign. Which Samus got neither, so, like DK, Mewtwo and Ness, should have all their Smash 4 alts. But she doesn’t. Kind of like how Pit’s black alt was changed in Smash 4 to not look like Dark Pit.
- Both are popular, often requested characters

1# Sure, they are.

2# Actually, a lot of Smash 4 veterans were missing colors in the Demo. Mario didn't have the Wario palette, Wire Mac missed a lot of colors, and Ike didn't have his Chrom Alt.

3# Sure, so is K.Rool, Geno, etc. They're currently not in Smash.

 

[ErenJager]

Sheiks final smash is around 1:56 right Here

Thank you for that.

oh my it's awesome.

 

[Fatmanonice]

A lot to digest from the presentation. I'm really glad they went ahead and knocked out all the veterans because it spares us the mini-anxiety attack maker that has plagued the Smash speculation since 2006. Even if it's pretty much guaranteed that characters like Yoshi are going to make it back, they made fans wait almost a year before he was confirmed in Brawl and SSB4 if you want one of the more notorious examples of unnecessary ulcer creators. It also sets the stage for nothing but newcomers from now until launch. My prediction is that they'll do at least three before the game comes out, all part of Directs, and maybe an echo fighter.

Everything presented with this game has a sort of sense of finality to it so far. As someone who has followed Smash speculation since the early 2000's Sakurai's notably adding stuff that people have been begging for years for:

-Ridley and Daisy
-Ganondorf with a sword
-Marth speaking English
-Paula and Poo to show up in some notable form
-The return of Fourside, Saffrom City, Kongo Jungle, etc.

And don't even get me started on all the apparent buffs that have been shown for virtually the whole cast in just the clips so far. I feel like Sakurai is going to bow out after this game and that the series will be shelved for at least a decade because it's getting so jam packed that either massive cuts or a reboot are necessary. This said, if you have crazy character wishes that you've been holding onto for longer than a decade, this game is probably your best shot.

My character predictions:

-Captain Toad (alone or with Toadette)
-Ashley
-Isabelle (an echo fighter of Villager or totally original)
-Bandana Waddle Dee
-K. Rool, Dixie, or both
-Rex and Pyra
-Some retro character that maybe 5 people actually know
-Decidueye or Lycanroc
-Spring Man/Ribbon Girl
-Someone new from Zelda (probably Hyrule Warriors' Impa)

Then I think they'll be 4-5 DLC where they go full ham on long time character requests like Geno, Simon Belmont, or even Banjo and Kazooie just to further push this as the "ultimate" Smash game and celebrate the 20th anniversary next year.

 

[N3ON]

Shadow and Dark Samus do have more going for them than many other ATs, sure, but that's a far cry from all but assuming they're playable; I agree with Shroob.

This newfound rabidity precipitated simply by a new term is causing a lot of clone-related hyperbole and people jumping the gun imo. "Echo Fighters" don't warrant a new mindset - it's no different than having some variation of clones in games one through four.

 

[ned_ballad]

1# Sure, they are.

2# Actually, a lot of Smash 4 veterans were missing colors in the Demo. Mario didn't have the Wario palette, Wire Mac missed a lot of colors, and Ike didn't have his Chrom Alt.

3# Sure, so is K.Rool, Geno, etc. They're currently not in Smash.

Mario got two new alt costumes to replace those colors, Mac got nerfed to 8 colors like everyone else and Ike got a new alt, like Mario, so he’s going to miss colors. Samus is closer to Mewtwo, DK or Ness. And guess what, none of them got new colors or any of their Smash 4 colors replaced. I don’t even think Fox did, and he even got a makeover!

There’s no reason to change Samus’ alt color. She didn’t get any new costumes or anything that would require the change. Her new color doesn’t reference anything, it’s just randomly a black and yellow suit replacing a costume that directly referenced a character from her series. Why change the color? What purpose would it serve to spend time creating a new color, when the previous one worked fine? Unless, for some reason, it suddenly did not work fine anymore.

3 is a pointless thing to say when we’re talking about clones. Neither of those would be clones.

 

[Ultinarok]

Has anyone brought up some of the new moves we've seen so far? Falco has a new rapid jab finisher, Ness has a new pummel and Up air, Sheik has a new pummel, Falcon has a new F Smash, Pikachu has a new nair, Tink has a new F Smash, Palutena has way faster tilts, Pac Man has a new up tilt and a faster grab, Ike has a new Up air, Samus grab is much quicker....I keep noticing all sorts of stuff. The animation tweaks are also really cool.

Since this is general discussion, move changes are fair game here right?

 

[MopedOfJustice]

wait wait wait. Did Sakurai say that about this game's update of the day thing?

EDIT: Removed rant for being unnecessary.

Oh dear, sorry if I was too unclear. While it was satirical like your edit suggests you realized, he has made comments to that effect because people did, in fact, complain quite a lot when he just posted something silly. It was like they expected weekly character trailers.