• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


Results are only viewable after voting.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Smooth Criminal

Da Cheef
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
13,576
Location
Hinckley, Minnesota
NNID
boundless_light
There are a lot of people saying rage starts around 120%-130% in SSBU. Is this something that will bring balance to many characters?
Yes. Full stop. In fact a lot of the universal mechanic changes are gonna shake up how a lot of characters are going to be playing now. Insofar as Rage goes, now you'll see more consistent stuff at lower percentages + a distinct lack of janky kills and other semi-randomnesss associated with it.

Smooth Criminal
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Funny thing you mention recovery because the eagle-eyed of the Smash 4 players and the likes of Leo, Zero, ESAM, etc. have pointed out the "vacuum hands" aspect of ledge recovery has been toned down considerably based on the build they played on, plus there's the fact that you can only directional airdodge once + diminishing returns on invincibility airdodging/dodging period. I'd say that's a pretty substantive change, don't you?

Smooth Criminal
Yes, Magnet Hands has bee removed, but survivability is still insane. You gotta get hit TOO the blast zone to die in most cases, and on top of that, it takes a lot to be able to secure kills from what we saw at the invitational. Smash 4 played a lot like that, where it was very easy to stay alive at high damage, and it also factored in Rage. Getting rid of Magnet Hands is a step forward, but not a complete solution. Surviving past 120% should be a rare occurance. Not something so common we see it every other stock in the first tournament. Hell, in Sheik vs. Snake, Sheik who's lightweight tanked like 3 of Snake's kill blows in a row while being over 100%. There's still more work to be done. The game will be a lot more fun to play/exciting to watch if you have less comebacks and players are able to more certainly secure kills at earlier percentages.
 

MamaLuigi123456

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,400
Location
Realm 75731
There will almost definitely be DLC and/or updates to the roster post-launch. Considering how well DLC in Smash 4 was received and how many other games are doing it, I'm sure Sakurai would want to add more characters after Ultimate is released.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the base roster will have every veteran in it. So even if we're only getting seven DLC characters post-launch (albeit since this is coming two years into the Switch's lifespan I'm expecting more than that), that's still seven newcomers.
 

Murlough

Euphoria
Joined
May 2, 2015
Messages
2,708
Location
Tennessee
NNID
Murl0ugh
3DS FC
4828-8253-7746
Honest question: Was Daisy THAT popular that she became a character, or she is only a character because she was an easy echo character to make?
Both actually. She had a huge fanbase. Even people who didnt want her in knew she had some very rabid fans.

You can't have rabid fans without a fanbase. If there was no one requesting her why did she get in? Even Mario seemed content with just keeping her in spin-offs. She could have just been an assist trophy or kept as a regular trophy. Clearly, either she had a fanbase or #Sakuraibias. (which also leads to fanbase btw)

Honestly, glad shes in. I was so sick of this **** and now she's here. Only annoying part are people acting like she stole Waluigi's spot even though they also say "Well she just got in because she was easy to make!" She's here. Get over it.
 
Last edited:

Zerp

Formerly "ZeroSoul"
Administrator
Writing Team
Joined
Sep 28, 2014
Messages
4,633
Location
South Carolina
There are a lot of people saying rage starts around 120%-130% in SSBU. Is this something that will bring balance to many characters?
Wouldn't that make it worse for a lot of lightweights like Jigglypuff/Kirby/Pichu, etc, since they wouldn't be able to start using it until percents they're usually dead by? I'm not sure that'd help balance the game overall lol.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

Old rivalries live on!
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
22,423
Location
Mushroom Kingdom
NNID
TPitch5
3DS FC
5327-1637-5096
Honest question: Was Daisy THAT popular that she became a character, or she is only a character because she was an easy echo character to make?
My best guess is the latter, and she was in at least one mainstream Super Mario title before transitioning over to spin-offs.
 

N3ON

Gone Exploring
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
21,444
Location
Vancouver
We've also never had such a large portion of the roster revealed so far. So it goes both ways really. I'm sure they'll still be hidden surprise newcomers that Sakurai doesn't want to show before game release.

So I don't know. It's a really confusing time. I can see points both way.
But saving a few until release doesn't preclude showing the typical amount, unless you're working with less.

Think about it. If there are still the normal amount of newcomers, and we can assume the normal amount will be held until release, that's still almost two newcomer reveals a month until release. Don't bank on that.
 

Deathcarter

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 9, 2007
Messages
1,358
I'm expecting 5-6 more unique newcomers which would put the newcomer list in line with Melee. As a result, I'm also expecting pretty much all the unique newcomers to have been substantially popular characters when chosen and don't believe we'll get more niche inclusions like Xenoblade (either X or 2), Rhythm Heaven, or even Paper Mario.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I’m just worried that I won’t get to play my favorite character in the base roster and have to pay for it. Happened in Smash 4 and I didn’t have any money so I couldn’t get them until much later. :’(

But recently with a trend of fighting games and how they have DLC and season pass that people started getting tired of. That is how I made my statement. Look at DBFZ when they said that there were 8 DLC characters planned. People got REALLY salty.
SOME people were irraltionally salty cause they don't understand how game development works. Just cause you plan something doesn't mean you've got it done. In fact, more often than not, you PLAN before you even start developing anything. ASW clearly barely got the characters done in time, and started working on the DLC post launch. When Tien got revealed, he wasn't even finished, lol. So they barely made their deadline. So, no DLC, means the roster would have ended at 25 with Android 21 rounding off the list. People don't have a problem with how the DLC is being handled now. People are still excited for each reveal and announcement. They've still got 4 more characters to go, and rumors are going about that there's a Season 2. At least, there's demand/anticipation for it.
 

Zinith

Yoshi is Thicc in S P I R I T
Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
24,735
Location
All around you, awaiting to consume your soul
Switch FC
SW-4624-0132-9722
I just realized that going by my methods there might be 75 characters...

Here me out here. On the CSS here are the possible slot numbers:

2, 8, 18, 32, 50, 72

72 seems likely. I'm gonna assume the Echo Fighters have their own slots. Since the random icon takes up a slot, that leaves 71. I'm also gonna assume Pokemon Trainer and Mii Fighters are the only ones with multiple characters in 1 slot each. That raises the roster to 75.

So I'm gonna predict 7 more newcomers that have yet to be revealed to to this.

And of course, I'm not considering DLC. This is my prediction based on the base CSS looking neat and organized
 

Shroob

Sup?
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
40,772
Location
Washington
So can you change into Dark Pit and Lucina in the Smash Ultimate demo? I need to make sure.
"Change into"?

Pretty sure Echoes get spots on the roster and just aren't glorified costumes.

You can see Marth and Lucina being separated when Sakurai is describing unlocking characters.
 

Guybrush20X6

Creator of Lego Theory
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
15,882
NNID
Guybrush20X6
3DS FC
4253-3477-4804
Switch FC
SW-2140-7758-3904
Technically speaking, we got 10 new Characters at E3 (7 vets, 3 newcomers) so I'd say we did pretty good there.

The question now is, "who's next?", followed by "DLC?"

Nothing's been seen of new DK characters and Isabelle and a few others have been conspicuous by their absence.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

Old rivalries live on!
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
22,423
Location
Mushroom Kingdom
NNID
TPitch5
3DS FC
5327-1637-5096
Yes, Magnet Hands has bee removed, but survivability is still insane. You gotta get hit TOO the blast zone to die in most cases, and on top of that, it takes a lot to be able to secure kills from what we saw at the invitational. Smash 4 played a lot like that, where it was very easy to stay alive at high damage, and it also factored in Rage. Getting rid of Magnet Hands is a step forward, but not a complete solution. Surviving past 120% should be a rare occurance. Not something so common we see it every other stock in the first tournament. Hell, in Sheik vs. Snake, Sheik who's lightweight tanked like 3 of Snake's kill blows in a row while being over 100%. There's still more work to be done. The game will be a lot more fun to play/exciting to watch if you have less comebacks and players are able to more certainly secure kills at earlier percentages.
We should try to remember that Ridley's tail special can deal as much as 59.3% damage during 1-on-1 bouts. That could potentially lead to very cheap follow-up KOs for Ridley if he manages to land the sweetspot against a lightweight fighter.
 

Smooth Criminal

Da Cheef
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
13,576
Location
Hinckley, Minnesota
NNID
boundless_light
We should try to remember that Ridley's tail special can deal as much as 59.3% damage during 1-on-1 bouts. That could potentially lead to very cheap follow-up KOs for Ridley if he manages to land the sweetspot against a lightweight fighter.
...except that Sakurai himself said that the numbers are likely to change. Nothing is set in stone, lol

Smooth Criminal
 

Zinith

Yoshi is Thicc in S P I R I T
Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
24,735
Location
All around you, awaiting to consume your soul
Switch FC
SW-4624-0132-9722
I just found a wrench in my theory. The character slots are not perfect squares. Well ****!!!

Of course, that's doesn't mean they couldn't change the dimensions of the slots as the roster grows. They could end up being perfect squares when the full roster is unlocked
 

RandomAce

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 29, 2017
Messages
2,986
SOME people were irraltionally salty cause they don't understand how game development works. Just cause you plan something doesn't mean you've got it done. In fact, more often than not, you PLAN before you even start developing anything. ASW clearly barely got the characters done in time, and started working on the DLC post launch. When Tien got revealed, he wasn't even finished, lol. So they barely made their deadline. So, no DLC, means the roster would have ended at 25 with Android 21 rounding off the list. People don't have a problem with how the DLC is being handled now. People are still excited for each reveal and announcement. They've still got 4 more characters to go, and rumors are going about that there's a Season 2. At least, there's demand/anticipation for it.
Yeah, DBFZ’s game development was a mess, I’m glad the game was even playable by then.

Albeit it seems that not all the DLC characters are gonna be well recieved. The next two to go are Base Goku and Vegita and people were showing their negative reception about having a fourth Goku and Vegita.

But after the good reception with Vegito’s reveal, as long as the characters are fun and look unique people will be happy.

Smash 5 will no doubt get DLC and I can see them having a good run with it, but since the veterans were all revealed at E3, the only thing for the base game that is left are the new characters, stages, modes to keep the hype cycle going. Right now I’m just looking at the gameplay and see what changes they have made so far beside what was revealed like Rage.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
But saving a few until release doesn't preclude showing the typical amount, unless you're working with less.

Think about it. If there are still the normal amount of newcomers, and we can assume the normal amount will be held until release, that's still almost two newcomer reveals a month until release. Don't bank on that.
I say we're gonna see 3 newcomers from here till launch, and the rest will be echo characters to round things off. Probably 3-4 of those as well.

K.Rool
Isaac
Rayman

Dark Samus
Shadow
Ken
Impa/Louie/Chrom
for echo characters.

That's my bet.
Then we'll see 2 more for DLC, and that'll be that. Who'll they'll pick? Fingers crossed for Banjo, but I honestly have no idea. Simon? In fact, if we go with 1 reveal a month, I'm sure we'll see a pattern of echo/newcomer/echo/newcomer/echo/newcomer all the way till December to consistently build hype, with the new 3rd party (probably Rayman) being the final reveal just before launch to climax the hype.

Also, as an aside, Ken would be a dope-ass echo character, and easy to make. I'd love to see him get in now that I think about it. Classic Ryu vs. Ken on Smash Bros would be fun.
 

DaybreakHorizon

The guy who predicted Sora as Fighter 11
Joined
Jul 28, 2013
Messages
9,604
Location
The Shadow World
NNID
tehponycorn
3DS FC
4253-3486-4603
I'm expecting 5-6 more unique newcomers which would put the newcomer list in line with Melee. As a result, I'm also expecting pretty much all the unique newcomers to have been substantially popular characters when chosen and don't believe we'll get more niche inclusions like Xenoblade (either X or 2), Rhythm Heaven, or even Paper Mario.
I feel like some popular characters will be relegated to DLC though. This is the Ultimate Smash Brothers game (or a Special one in the East), and if it's Sakurai's last ride, I imagine he's going to want to represent as much as he can, including unrepresented and up-and-coming series (Xenoblade, Rhythm Heaven, etc.) He's also going to revisit previous ideas from other games (Geno, Chrom, etc.).
 

Slavic

Ask not the sparrow how the eagle soars
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Messages
758
Location
taco bell, probablyn't
I agree but I still stand by my point that the Zelda roster at least needs one more character that isn’t Link, Zelda, or Ganon.

Having 6 characters when in reality there is only 3 canonically seems bloated when you compare that to Fire Emblem and Pokémon with everyone of their characters being different (except Lucina, but canonically she is a different person).

It really doesn’t look right.
This is something I’ve always thought about for Smash. There are certainly characters you can make an argument for, characters like Impa, Tingle, Skull Kid, etc. However, more so than other games the existence of the main characters is so important to the Zelda universe. Despite Link and Zelda being different people every game, they’re still the same and have the same roles every game. Meanwhile, Ganon’s opposite, he’s always the same evil but in new forms. I don’t know, the Zelda games feel like they’re designed to revolve around those three’s importance more than, for instance, Mario in his series or Kirby in his. Lately I’ve enjoyed their representation, I just want to see more diverse representation of those three characters.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Albeit it seems that not all the DLC characters are gonna be well recieved. The next two to go are Base Goku and Vegita and people were showing their negative reception about having a fourth Goku and Vegita.
People with no taste have a problem with Base Goku and Base Vegeta. Lol.

A Glass Canon Goku that can use Kaio-Ken, and has a Spirit Bomb Ult. and a Vegeta that can turn into an Ozaru? Yes please. That was also one of the best fights in the entire series. I still remember watching that for the first time when I was 6.

When Base Goku gets released, I'm gonna main him for sure.
 

DBPirate

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 19, 2018
Messages
146
Location
Texas
These are my current roster predictions. Not sure how many of them will get in, but some of them will I'm sure.

Smash Ultimate newcomers.png


  • Zelda newcomer will be either Skull Kid or a possible Impa echo
  • I still think we'll get a character from Sun/Moon
  • Ashley's definitely possible until we see Assist Trophy footage of her, same with Isabelle (any confirmation yet on these two?)
  • I think Geno and the Chorus Kids will definitely be in if Sakurai is revisiting past ideas
I could be totally wrong, of course. This is not counting third parties and possible additional echo fighters like Shadow or Dark Samus. Isabelle and Ashley have the highest chances, I believe.
 
Last edited:

SmashChu

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jul 14, 2003
Messages
5,924
Location
Tampa FL
I watched a little bit of Treehouse before Xenoblade 2 stuff, and god its hard to watch this. I litterly saw them play a match you can easily set up in Smash Wii U (Ike and Pit on Skyworld). I have no idea why they are showing this off so much at Treehouse. At least when they did 3DS they showed off other modes. Here its just more Smash matches. I want to like this game but its too depressing.

I don't see what you're talking about here. I just went to /v/ and the first thread was one about Ridley in Smash. I also counted 20 other threads on /v/ right now themed around Smash. Skimming the first thread, I also found basically no confusion over whether or not the game is a port. The only post I saw relating to that topic was one anon who said the game was a port, then 7 others who replied saying "no it isn't".

I understand being upset about the low number of newcomers relative to other Smash games, I'm also concerned with the amount of content and how much longevity is going to be gotten out of a roster that's 85% vets. However, most of this game's reception has been by and large positive.
Yeah, that was the sticky thread.

You also have to consider that Smash use to dominate the discussion. Now it has a thread or two and a few of them die on page 7 or 8. You get some, but its far fewer in number and I expect it will dwindle after E3. The excitement wont be there for this one.
I was honestly bummed when he told us not to expect newcomers. I would have rather gotten more newcomers than have everyone come back(Tbh I only dislike Pichu and Young link)

Idk if we already saw 90% of the game that is a bit much. I am willing to bet that this game will have at least 10 newcomers(Echo included). But you're right, this seems more like a collection rather than a new game.
When people wanted all the characters back, it was always with the preface that we get a lot of other stuff too. Remember that Smash would add 12 characters and a ton of new stages (think Brawl had 30 new ones, Smash 4 had 50+ in total). Here, we're trading new content for old. It sounds cool in theory but I don't think it will work in practice. What dominated the discussion was new stuff. Even now, its new characters that most people are talking about, but with fewer characters, there's less to talk about. I don't think this will translate into excitement. My hope is that the inevitable Smash Direct is focused on the new stuff and they just wanted to start with the old stuff. Maybe they can make this game like Splatoon and have it keep updating (which this game lends itself to very well). I feel like that's the only thing that can save it.
Oh dear... how will Nintendo and Sakurai top Smash Ultimate in the next Smash game? I mean, Smash 5's selling point is that it's the "ultimate Smash experience" with all characters and presumably all stages in Smash history.

Maybe Smash 6 will be a reboot? What could be Smash 6's selling point?
You have to have a reboot. I don't see another way. Even if you try and cut, you'll still end up with a 50-60 character roster at the end of it.

There are two things I think Smash has to do. First, it can't be beholden to its past. You have to be willing to axe things that aren't relevant and change characters how they need to be changed. Feel free to remix characters. Second, you have to refocuse the game. Smash Bros "hey all the characters are back" is what happens when you go down the path of characters and not Nintendo. The later keeps a certain focus and permeates into other elements of the game like the stages, items and even the Adventure Mode. Smash has been focusing on "characters" but you can only go so far with that. Smash Wii U was focused on "unique" characters as well as having big names. Smash Bros "hey all the characters are back" is focused on just that. With nowhere else to go, it focuses on ALL the characters.

The way I'd handle it is this: look at what Nintendo has released in the last 10 years. These are you "key" series. Anything not in there isn't key. Basically, if someone told you to make a Nintendo All-Star game today, with no knowledge of Smash Bros's history, what would you come up with. That's the approach the series needs after this Smash Bros.
 

SquashiniKun

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 8, 2018
Messages
764
I can see one of two things happening to the amount of newcomers:

A. The newcomer amount will be small (8-10 Newcomers) but over time new newcomers will be added to the game via free updates (ala ARMS)

B. The newcomer amount will be similar to that of the amount of characters of Smash 64 (12 Newcomers)
 
Last edited:

DLEAF

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 22, 2018
Messages
125
Only one thing is certain:

If Sakurai tries to pass off an Echo Fighter as DLC, there will be plenty of backlash.
 

Smooth Criminal

Da Cheef
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
13,576
Location
Hinckley, Minnesota
NNID
boundless_light
SmashChu SmashChu

...you do realize that there have been countless interviews of Trinen and even Sakurai saying that they wanna hold back the other modes because they wanna surprise people, right? That showing them an indicator of how they'll play in that is like, a good move. They don't want people to forget that Smash is a fun party game that you play with friends and stuff at its core.

It's not rocket science, dude. That's marketing 101.

Smooth Criminal
 

Wyoming

Connery, Sean
Joined
Jun 27, 2013
Messages
3,810
Switch FC
7748-5364-3982
For those of you who are worried about the number of newcomers, I wouldn't freak out just yet.

We still have a solid six months before the release. Seeing how every veteran is already confirmed, there's not much else to discuss in terms of characters aside from newcomers. Once we include possible hidden characters, I think we'll end up with about ten newcomers. Not as much as we're used to, but nothing to sneeze at either.
If we get every veteran and 10 newcomers total BEFORE DLC, nobody can complain about the quantity of fighters we got.

I have a feeling that's realistic. We are back to no man's land. Sakurai could reveal a newcomer on the blog randomly for all we know lol.
 

N3ON

Gone Exploring
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
21,444
Location
Vancouver
I say we're gonna see 3 newcomers from here till launch, and the rest will be echo characters to round things off. Probably 3-4 of those as well.

K.Rool
Isaac
Rayman

Dark Samus
Shadow
Ken
Impa/Louie/Chrom
for echo characters.

That's my bet.
Then we'll see 2 more for DLC, and that'll be that. Who'll they'll pick? Fingers crossed for Banjo, but I honestly have no idea. Simon? In fact, if we go with 1 reveal a month, I'm sure we'll see a pattern of echo/newcomer/echo/newcomer/echo/newcomer all the way till December to consistently build hype, with the new 3rd party (probably Rayman) being the final reveal just before launch to climax the hype.

Also, as an aside, Ken would be a dope-*** echo character, and easy to make. I'd love to see him get in now that I think about it. Classic Ryu vs. Ken on Smash Bros would be fun.
Yeah three between now and launch seems about right. Especially since Nintendo's Q3/4 this year seem lighter than last.

Not even going to try predicting who might be coming though. Other than Simon. That leak seems worth keeping in mind.

I can see one of two things happening to the amount of newcomers:

A. The newcomer amount is small (8-10 Newcomers) but overtime new newcomers will be added to the game via free updates (ala ARMS)

B. The newcomer amount is similar to that of the amount of characters of Smash 64 (12 Newcomers)
Free characters, at all, seem optimistic to me. :/
 

RandomAce

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 29, 2017
Messages
2,986
Here’s something.

When Ridley was revealed, he got a splash screen just like everyone else in Smash 4.

So with that in mind, what do you think the Splash screen for you favorite character will be if they got in?
 

Nani?

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 9, 2018
Messages
187
Location
Disney World... I wish...
3DS FC
4613-7779-1616
Switch FC
SW 2020-9361-5549
Ok, maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me, but I'm pretty sure that Mario's up special produced purple coins.
 

Iridium

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 17, 2018
Messages
8,445

This is a good list of changes to Link (BOTW) in SSBU. His range is just incredible, and getting his double jump back after being attacked during Spin Attack is nice.

Ok, maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me, but I'm pretty sure that Mario's up special produced purple coins.
That happens when different alternate costumes are chosen, apparently.

Edit: Nope. That's just the currency in Super Mario Odyssey.
 
Last edited:

Zeox

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
2,258
Location
Akrillic Island
What if, by paying for online, you receive the DLC characters for free? that's a way to make more people pay for online and at the same time get some money with the DLC characters.
 

Murlough

Euphoria
Joined
May 2, 2015
Messages
2,708
Location
Tennessee
NNID
Murl0ugh
3DS FC
4828-8253-7746
Here’s something.

When Ridley was revealed, he got a splash screen just like everyone else in Smash 4.

So with that in mind, what do you think the Splash screen for you favorite character will be if they got in?
Mimikyu
Found some "friends"

I'm not a huge fan of the anime version of Mimikyu but the subtext works for getting Mimikyu to fight the cast. I'm sure Nintendo would think of something better easily, though.
 

SquashiniKun

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 8, 2018
Messages
764
Here’s something.

When Ridley was revealed, he got a splash screen just like everyone else in Smash 4.

So with that in mind, what do you think the Splash screen for you favorite character will be if they got in?
*Insert Rhythm Heaven Character Here* BEATS THE BEAT!

Free characters, at all, seem optimistic to me. :/
It's most likely they'll add a new character every 2-3 updates.
 

?????????????

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
4,475
Also, as an aside, Ken would be a dope-*** echo character, and easy to make. I'd love to see him get in now that I think about it. Classic Ryu vs. Ken on Smash Bros would be fun.
How would you personally feel if, instead of Ken, Akuma was chosen as an echo fighter?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom