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That's not a problem tbvh. Mario/DK/Yoshi are close series, no matter the arguments and share the same universe, it doesn't feel out of place y'know-
Right, and now this leads me to my 2nd question: Has Sakurai ever kept true to his word regarding characters that couldn't work in Smash? As far as I know, the major ones were Pac-man, Villager, and Miis, and Sakurai went back on what he said about them and included them in Smash 4.
I hate to be that guy, but Super Dragon is actually based on the abilities Yoshi can get after swallowing shells in Super Mario World.
I personally do. Don't argue I'm inconsistent when you don't know my positions - it's bad debating technique.
If that is the case, then why are recurring characters the ones that most regularly make it into Smash Bros.?
How can you assure me that Skull Kid is more iconic?
Then you'll understand why I consider the champions to be as likely as Ghirahim was in Smash 4.
The champions weren't part of the E3 demo. Sakurai couldn't have known who would be most well received because they weren't publically known yet. Your entire argument hinges upon the impact of Breath of the Wild, but Breath of the Wild had no impact at the point Sakurai was considering characters.
The problem for me is that, unlike Wario and Donkey Kong, the Yoshi series doesn't really have any standout characters that aren't Mario enemies. Kamek and Shy Guy are neat, but ultimately are Mario characters. You can't say the same for Ashley or Mona, and Dixie or K. Rool.
Ah, right. Which is also an ability from- what else- him in a Mario game.
When was this an argument about Yoshi needing more representation?
Considering that Yoshi has strong ties to the Super Mario Bros. series, his stages have every right to use some of the Super Mario Bros. BGM tracks.
I was going off in a tangent.
I'm sorry if we disagree, but my opinion stands. This isn't specifically about EarthBound; my discontent comes from the fact that I do not like the characters added in that roster, period. In general, it's pretty hard to be excited for something you dislike. In this case, however, it is especially so because I'm not the type who gets excited if a series I like expands its representation with characters I could do without. Finally, it's not unreasonable for one to react negatively to a personally undesirable roster; in fact, I'd say it's to be expected. This is a game of preferences, and everyone is entitled to their own choices. I would accept that roster if it was official, and I would be happy for the people who supported those characters, but I would not be pleased with it.
Yeah she wasn't in Super at all. Kamek did appear in Color Splash as well, just not quite as prominently. He/She mostly just showed up randomly during battles to do so trickery.
Ah. Yeah, it'd be neat if he got in Smash, that said. With a Kammy costume. Maybe 8 of each of them with various colors. Red, Blue, Yellow, Green? The typical ones.
how about Psycho Kamek from Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga?
You took that 99% thing a little too seriously.
Actually yes, and people other than me have had fits over it. I bet you're one of those people who think his placement on Smash 4's CSS is strange
I believe there's a white one too.
AKA straight up White Mage Kamek, haha.
I think Poochy would be a fun addition as well. He certainly has less moveset potential than Kamek, but he would at least be one of the cutest characters on the roster, which has to count for something, right? Also he's had a bit of a boost in relevancy with his inclusion in Woolly World (with an accompanying amiibo) and Mario Odyssey.
Gotta have a White Mage design.
Well, Squeenix probably said no. Plain and simple. A remake is different from a VC release. They get credit either way, but it's easier to say no to a remake because it's modifying the original design of the game. If they don't want the cameo there, it's their call. For just a re-release, saying "remake it or no dice" is kind of fruitless when they'll get their share of credit anyway.
No, I think his placement in Smash 4 is just fine. Right in there with his fellow Mario characters.
Why not add both, since considering Kid Icarus and Fire Emblem, Sakurai has no problem adding more than one rep to a series.
On your reasoning for SamusSo. Sticking to the "hopeful" estimate based on known/estimated development cycle and factors leading to my theory for "17 newcomers + Wolf and Icies returning." In these last few days before we get dumped with news. I wanna break down my feelings/thoughts about the major characters across the various series... that I know of, at least.
Saturday: N64 Additions
Sunday: Melee + Brawl Additions
Monday: Smash 4 + New Series additions.
Tuesday: "Open" and "Filled" Roster ideas.
Without other pleasantries, I'll get to work.
Mario as a series got a significant bump between Brawl and Smash 4 and the series might see no newcomers again. However, there are 4 major avenues if we do see it.
1) Captain Toad: Toads in general have been a decently supported fighter since Melee's japanese-only fan survey. Captain Toad in particular has been a specific entity to embody everything the species have been known for as well as his own feats in his various small appearances and own budget-title. However, I don't see him becoming a fighter. As is well known as it rears its head when the character is oft brought up; he is unable to jump in-game because of his backpack combined with Toad's lower-than-average jumping power as defined in SMB2 and 3D World. Because of this, his often helper-npc role in Mario's mainline titles, and Sakurai's claim to want to seek proper character representation in regards of their series when they appear in Smash, I feel he is more befitting an Assist Trophy role but am open to being proven wrong.
2) Pauline: Big push in popularity out of Odyssey, Mario's original damsel in distress has always been a background character for the series. Appearing in the Mario vs Donkey Kong spinoff, she has yet to even break out into the main Mario group games like Tennis, Party, or Kart. Her largely non-direct role in the series and small impact within it makes me feel that in spite of a surge; we'll see her merely as a background element for an eventual New Donk City stage similar to K.K. Slider in Smashville and Town & City.
3) Paper Mario: It's complicated. He's possible but due to the lack of an identity in how he functions between Sticker Star and Color Splash tiptoeing around similar-ish systems but don't wholly align don't sit well in how I feel this character would be viewed to have a set fighting style and such. There's also very evident clamoring in his fanbase for the age of Partners but again adhering to Sakurai's claim for being "honest" to character design when he can, he just doesn't seem right for the jump currently. If Paper Mario 6 cements a sticker/paint system, I might turn on him for DLC or a sequel
4) Party/Karty/Sports: I'm lumping this together because these kinds of Mario spinoffs are a big part of the series and have two characters tied into them. Daisy, who I generally see as less likely due to not having great means to keep herself distinct from Peach for whom she's always set up as the partner, and Waluigi, who visually clearly has something distinct, has the general underdog demeanor and "weirdness" that has kept him with an oddly passionate fanbase, push by even Charles Martinet for greater roles, a history of using mechanical tools and explosives to cheat his way to victory, and a popularity Sakurai has teased about... it's an outside chance, but I feel like one worth noting.
I'm just going to be blunt. I don't see a Zelda newcomer. The champions all fall into the trope of "fairly significant character in one game that likely won't be seen again" that Skull Kid, Midna, and Ghirahim fell into and have become Assist Trophies for. Especially with things like Daruk's protection and Revali's gale probably being mixed into Link's new moveset. Outside of them, it's just like Smash 4.... but worse. Wizpig Ganon hasn't been in a game since Link Between Worlds, and Impa's best push is from HW and from that Linkle might shine better.
With Gen 8 pushed back officially to 2019, and the roster likely being determined in mid 2016, we're looking at an Alolan addition with all likelihood. And there are basically 3 camps.
1) Decidueye: Grass starter. Pushed up decently via Pokken and such. Archer + bird person for uniqueness. Kinda has the credentials one would expect but we have been duped before like with expecting Zoroark.
2) Mimikyu: An option people don't really note. One of the bigger non-starter, non-legendary pokemon out of the region given its anime relevance of Jessie's ace and the first pokemon to actually take down Ash and Co. in a fair fight, only "standard" alolan Pokemon to be given a unique Z-move, and even had an entire song made for it in the pre-release play up and Sun and Moon. A cloth-clad trickster that I wouldn't count out.
3) Lycanroc: It's a dog with earth/rock powers and is being played up in the show as Ace's ace. Not too much more to say but I'd expect at least them to be a big Pokeball summon if nothing else.
Bandana Dee. What it comes down to because Marx only has his post-launch addition of Star Allies to cling to and that's too new for the roster's probable cut off. B. Dee's design starts back from Super Star, but starting from its Remake HAL has been making him a sizable star of recent titles and set up as the 4th big player to the series. Playable as the 4th character in RtDL and the on-launch Star Allies dream friends. Sole playable sidekick in Rainbow Curse and Battle Royale. NPC helper in Triple Deluxe and Robobot while the King and Knight were boss fights and got a sub mode dedicated to them (DDD Drum Dash in TD and Meta Knightmare in PR). Small body, big spear, and the general tools of a Waddle Dee similar to one'd claim for Toad kind for Captain Toad. Not a hype powerhouse, but a rising star kind of character that had a good case for Smash 4 and has only gotten better since.
I expect no newcomer. Yoshi is a series that has not evolved much since the SNES era much to credit its simple but solid gameplay that's so heavilly rooted to mainline Mario for its cast. The only other recurring characters are the Babies, forms of Bowser, and Kamek who... is just a magikoopa.
Donkey Kong as a series has been very vocally pushed for being "sleighted" in its representation and due to strong circumstances of the series with the Returns games and in general the Smash Ballot, two newcomers wouldn't be a shock.
Dixie: Planned in some capacity for Brawl, the third playable Kong, and one that has stuck around a lot as a playable gal. Another simple character that kinda shouldn't need explanation at this point.
K. Rool: You can't be here long without hearing his name cried. A character with just about every credential marked off the list.... except a recent role. But with the ballot, and nod to his support with the surprise Mii costume, I wouldn't count the croc out yet.
With the fact DK is at two characters still, anything past these two possible additions is being too wild in my opinion. Cranky or Funky just aren't on the same level of them in series and really don't hold shots to get in before them.
Wolf coming back is about the best the series has to push. The only games to come after Command have been two rehashes of 64. This severely hurts Krystal as the loosely popular "4th member" as fans often put her and Slippy's the only other remotely tangible factor due to being made the face of Star Fox Guard but would be an extreme outside shot to say the last.
I know I'm gonna grab heat for this one but I do not expect any additions to the roster this time either. Ridley has Word of God against him (and one of very few characters Sakurai has ever talked about why they WEREN'T included... and was given that treatment twice). Every argument against him has been said already and I feel I'm being too lengthy already. Sylux is pretty much the only other notable option and he's waiting for the drop of Prime 4 to be truly relevant again.
Get a new game and then we'll talk.
That wraps up the first 10 added series.
Prepare for another read tomorrow.
All I've been trying to say this entire argument is that the likes of Yoshi, Wario, etc. are just as much new Mario characters in Smash as they are newcomers for their respective series in Smash. Even with their respective game series certainly doing enough to separate themselves from the main "Mario Universe", they still celebrate both their Mario sides and the sides from their own series.
Delete this immediately.
No, I think his placement in Smash 4 is just fine. Right in there with his fellow Mario characters.
What about any of that is literally worth having a fit over? This is where I feel the bias coming in. And to be blunt, I don't really care what your 'perspective' of Yoshi's representation in Smash is, what matters is what is already there, and what's there is a healthy balance between his Mario side and Yoshi side, which again, is the entire point I've been trying to make this past hour.
The problem with perspectives like that is that it undermines Yoshi's importance to gaming as a whole, such as how people view power-ups, the collectathon elements of platformers and the connection between gameplay and story (I'm talking about the baby mechanic).
Well, I can expand here while I didn't in the main post.
Correction, it undermines YOUR perspective of Yoshi as a whole in gaming.
Danganronpa? I love the game series (cept for the 3 anime) but literally what does that have to do Nintendo?
As I said a few posts back, this entire matter is subjective.
tbh its just my out of nowhere cloud level pick cause idk
It was originally a LOT longer... But we had to cut it down to make it flow better, and to make it manageable for time. I might be able to post the entire list I made on SG sometime in the future.This must've been an immeasurable effort to compile the entire history of this leaky leaky series in a concise write-up, but I have to say it turned out great! Very well done!
