Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Bradli Wartooth]

https://twitter.com/Konami/status/1003680405222879232

Are they... are they teasing my boy
They had better not use "explosive" as an adjective unless they mean it...

If you read the first replies, they say that there will be new content in the upcoming port to other consoles. Not saying this doesn't have Smash implications, but they do point out what some of the explosive surprises could be.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

I think the only rule we should still take at face value with Sakurai's criteria is that the character has to originate in a video game, so no Goku or anything. Outside of that, pretty much anything is fair game.

THANK YOU!

I will gladly take a character I don't like or want over Goku, Shrek, etc

https://twitter.com/Konami/status/1003680405222879232

Are they... are they teasing my boy
They had better not use "explosive" as an adjective unless they mean it...

If Bomb is in Smash...we are going to have an EXPLOSIVE day

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I hope we don't get any more FE characters. The series already has 6
FE has the same reps as Pokemon
FE has 1 more than Zelda
FE has 4 more than Metroid
FE has 4 more than DK
FE has 3 more than Kirby

You can get your wish when Lyn, Celica, and Anna are playable in some shape and form

 

[Nekoo]

https://twitter.com/Konami/status/1003680405222879232

Are they... are they teasing my boy
They had better not use "explosive" as an adjective unless they mean it...

Not at all, they're just teasing content that will go for the multiplat release. Probably a season 2 of free update

 

[Just a random scrub]

Can we make Mario feel more happy for the next smash game?

Spoiler

View attachment 146889

I'm starting to feel that he is gonna murder us all.

Mario's always been mental tho. XD

JOKES ASIDE, thugh, I actually am not all that bothered by gritty Mario, or gritty Smash in general.

Why? I just feel it to be.... kinda refreshing in a way.

Now prepare for me to go on an extremely boring tangent about "tone", "identity" and all that stupid stuff, to defend my position.

As bad as Brawl's gameplay was (seriously, mention Wolf's matchup against King Dedede and I WILL LOSE ALL MY ****ING ****), there was one thing Brawl did right IMO; it was when the franchise gained some identity beyond "game where Nintendo characters beat the crap out of each other".

Brawl was the first Smash game to have a true tone/identity. There were serious character designs (like the Twilight Princess Designs getting introduced), a storyline with drastic stakes, globally desaturated colour palette, heroes working together and the villains being, and an ultra big-baddie that was an enigma. There was a real impact to it all, and there was a subtle shock factor to it all (like, it feels like there's some dark ulterior motive behind all the fighting, and it isn't just for fun). The promotional media and the game alike both used an orchestrated choir, designs were more serious overall, and it really felt like an ultimate battle royale (even if, again, the gameplay left much to be desired). In general, that gritty feel was something that made Brawl feel really unique to me, especially after having been told many times in my youth that Nintendo couldn't be anything but happy go lucky.

Not to say I don't see any merit in Smash 4's artstyle/identity. It harkens more to the Smash 64 days of "Settle it in Smash!" compared to the grittier Melee and Brawl, and it feels in general like some great adventure is about to happen. It certiantly does suit many characters well, and I do like the neutral tone they went for. I wouldn't mind all that much if they kept it. But I still really hope this Switch game goes back to the general Brawl style. (with some adjustments; some characters look more cartoony than others, like Kirby, but the standard is Brawl's realism) This is because I feel that Brawl's gritty and dark undertones really offered a fresh take on these Nintendo icons we all know and love, and it was a really great idea with admittedly somewhat faulty execution in some parts, which I could imagine turning off a few people, and this concept was dropped too soon. So basically, A more mature Smash has plenty of potential to me. I'd like them to also include the scrapped mechanic of visible battle scars (like Meta Knight's mask cracking, Falcon's visor cracking, Samus's armor cracking, fizzing and sparking, etc). So far, though, the Smash Switch trailer appears more abstractingly Gothic than anything from Smash 4, portraying the logo and the music as something horrifying, and the Inklings looking nervous as hell, which, when contrasted with Smash 4's first trailer starting with Villager happily getting an invitation to participate in Smash, comes off as feeling more like an alien invasion of sorts, so maybe, just maybe, this is at least a partial return to SSBB's style.... but I don't want to hold my breath and get disappointed.

Just felt like, with some people acting like dark Smash is some sort of alien concept, I just felt like defending this stance and help explaining just what it is in Brawl's artstyle that makes people consider revisiting it to be worthwhile.

Also, woah, that was a stupid long post.

 

[ProtoTwi]

Never.
I don't want to face K.Rool fan, Shantae fan and Daisy fans fighting each other's as if we were voting for the president of the human species.

I want all 3 though.

 

[Idon]

But that point doesn't really lend itself to saying Joker won't get in. Joker is a Megami Tensei character, which has been on Nintendo consoles for 20 years. And he will be the main character in the upcoming spinoff title for the 3DS.

But Joker's a protagonist of a spin-off of SMT, Persona, a series that's heavily tied with Sony and is always advertised, announced, and presented as a Sony product.
The way I see it, the more jumps and connections you'd have to make to tie characters with Nintendo, the harder it is for them to be considered.

That said, I'm not saying Joker won't make it in, I'm saying that both Cloud and Bayonetta have more credence and ties to Nintendo than Joker does.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

But Joker's a protagonist of a spin-off of SMT, Persona, a series that's heavily tied with Sony and is always advertised, announced, and presented as a Sony product.
The way I see it, the more jumps and connections you'd have to make to tie characters with Nintendo, the harder it is for them to be considered.

That said, I'm not saying Joker won't make it in, I'm saying that both Cloud and Bayonetta have more credence and ties to Nintendo than Joker does.

You don't really have to jump that far though... It's still made in the same studio by the same company for the same franchise. The jumps are 100% created by your cognition sorry of the situation.

 

[Cosmic77]

https://twitter.com/Konami/status/1003680405222879232

Are they... are they teasing my boy
They had better not use "explosive" as an adjective unless they mean it...

I'll try not to read too much into that, but that's certainly interesting. I wonder what these "surprises" they mention are.

I hope we don't get any more FE characters. The series already has 6
FE has the same reps as Pokemon
FE has 1 more than Zelda
FE has 4 more than Metroid
FE has 4 more than DK
FE has 3 more than Kirby

Preach it, brother!

 

[M_Patch]

Not at all, they're just teasing content that will go for the multiplat release. Probably a season 2 of free update

lol "not at all"... I guess we'll see

They've already been pretty clear for a while now in their advertising for the content and characters unique to the Shiny Editions, and they obviously wanted pre-orders. They probably would have been hyping up a new mode or whatever if that was what this was.

 

[Zerp]

Basically, what we're all saying is Smash Ballot v 2.0 when?

It doesn't matter when, the 2nd ballot's winner has already been decided, it hasn't been announced yet but Travis Touchdown has won because just like the first one it's actually rigged, why do you think Suda51 keeps on begging for Travis to get in?/s




If Travis Touchdown actually wins a hypothetical 2nd Smash Ballot I will remove the /s from this post.

 

[Awakining]

https://twitter.com/Konami/status/1003680405222879232

Are they... are they teasing my boy
They had better not use "explosive" as an adjective unless they mean it...

This can only mean one thing...

Spoiler

SNAKE CONFIRMED

 

[P.Kat]

To be fair, if I didn't know it was that easy to edit it it really would be believable, you'd think Imdb would only accept stuff from people in the industry and because of that it looks credible at first glance lol. Also, I won't lie.

Spoiler

View attachment 146928 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5370130/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast
That leak you posted may or may not have inspired me to have a little fun with this.

I still remember thinking Bayonetta was literally impossible and that Nintendo would never ever let her in their game, how wrong we all were.

Yeah thanks, I still remembered how that site to me for a loop when I voted for Shantae in the ballot, only to later see leaks about her voice actor (or a voice actor) being hired to voice Shantae. It was so disappointing to see all that go up into smoke and

Glad to see some fun came out of it for you though

Yeah, I didn't think it was impossible, but definitely unlikely that Bayonetta would make it in, look how that ended up. I hope the same scenario happen with Joker blindsiding us with an playable appearance too. All this talk about him not only makes me want him as a character more, but to go get Persona 5 by the end of this week too I wanna join the fun

 

[Fatmanonice]

I hope we don't get any more FE characters. The series already has 6
FE has the same reps as Pokemon
FE has 1 more than Zelda
FE has 4 more than Metroid
FE has 4 more than DK
FE has 3 more than Kirby

Yep. DK, Metroid, and Kirby haven't had new reps in 10 years and Zelda technically hasn't had a new rep in 17. Along with Wario, in my opinion, they're all long overdue with Zelda, DK, and Kirby arguably all having super easy +1s this time around.

 

[Pacack]

I think the only rule we should still take at face value with Sakurai's criteria is that the character has to originate in a video game, so no Goku or anything. Outside of that, pretty much anything is fair game.

Minor nitpick, but that's actually not one of Sakurai's rules.

• The character must display personality in their game
• It’s important to have something only that character can do.
• Potential development issues, and game balance is also taken into some consideration.
• Distribution among the franchises is also taken into consideration.

Manga characters will not join the battle (obviously).

While it’s true that we’ve added characters from other companies, it’s not going to be anyone and everyone.

Smash is a game that’s made from everyone’s effort. Both companies have to want the character to join the battle. I need them to let me take charge of the character. In order to fit the character into the world of Smash, I need them to allow me some artistic license.

The character must carry game history with them.

Besides that, it might be something like a courtesy to include a character who has the experience of being on a Nintendo platform.

So, while manga characters are explicitly forbidden, and characters like Goku or Spongebob are impossible, he's never said the character must originate from a video game. He just said the character must "carry game history with them," which is slightly different. That's why we can have R.O.B. even though he technically was originally a toy.

Note the following:

Sakurai: But, you know I get requests like, “Please put Goku in”
Sugita: GOKU!?
Sakurai: “Please put Spongebob”
Sugita: SPONGEBOB?!
Sakurai: That’s impossible.
Sugita: Spongebob’s games are only sold abroad!
Sakurai: That’s right
Sugita: The really energetic, yellow square right?
Sakurai: Yes.
Sugita: Even Spongebob…
Sakurai: Well, those kinds of requests are pretty common.
Sugita: What about Yukawasen*, or Segata Sanshiro?
Sakurai: (laughs)
Sugita: …well I’m glad Sonic’s in.
Sakurai: That’s the point of Mii Fighters

The emphasis here isn't that Spongebob isn't a game character, but rather that his games aren't even released in Japan. The Mii fighters are for "impossible" requests like these.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

That tweet

I should point this out

Why are there 8 bomberman there?

Isn't I bit funny there's 8 alts for each characater in smash

 

[P.Kat]

https://twitter.com/Konami/status/1003680405222879232

Are they... are they teasing my boy
They had better not use "explosive" as an adjective unless they mean it...

If it true I guess you can say that Konami...

Dropped the bomb on us.

 

[Cosmic77]

Yep. DK, Metroid, and Kirby haven't had new reps in 10 years and Zelda technically hasn't had a new rep in 17. Along with Wario, in my opinion, they're all long overdue with Zelda, DK, and Kirby arguably all having super easy +1s this time around.

Honestly, I'm just hoping that at least one of those series will get a new rep. My dream scenario is that we get a newcomer for all three, but I'm keeping my expectations low just in case we get a focus on other newer series like Xenoblade and Animal Crossing.

 

[Pacack]

Minor nitpick, but that's actually not one of Sakurai's rules.


So, while manga characters are explicitly forbidden, and characters like Goku or Spongebob are impossible, he's never said the character must originate from a video game. He just said the character must "carry game history with them," which is slightly different. That's why we can have R.O.B. even though he technically was originally a toy.

Note the following:

The emphasis here isn't that Spongebob isn't a game character, but rather that his games aren't even released in Japan. The Mii fighters are for "impossible" requests like these.

Also, yes, this means that Mickey is arguably not an impossible request due to Kingdom Hearts, which gives him gaming history. It can also be argued that he popularized the very idea of mascots, which is of historic importance to gaming today.

Not that he's likely, but he's not completely ineligible.

 

[92MilesPrower]

But do you know da wae?

Just show me the way out!

Dead memes aside, I'm starting to wonder what kind of trailer(s) we're gonna get for Smash 5 at E3. Will we get just a huge one that reveals a few newcomers alongside plenty of veterans? One that shows off veterans and one or two newcomers at the beginning and another newcomer in their own trailer at the end of the direct/at the invitational? What do you guys think we'll get, and what would you prefer to see anyways?

 

[Idon]

Also, yes, this means that Mickey is arguably not an impossible request due to Kingdom Hearts, which gives him gaming history. It can also be argued that he popularized the very idea of mascots, which is of historic importance to gaming today.

Not that he's likely, but he's not completely ineligible.

He's not ineligible, but Disney will 100% NEVER let it happen.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Seems Joker conversation has died off. My time has come to return to my lurking state...

 

[P.Kat]

Never.
I don't want to face K.Rool fan, Shantae fan and Daisy fans fighting each other's as if we were voting for the president of the human species.

Y-yeah, that be terrible.

*secretly deletes 1000 word essay for why Shantae should come to smash*

 

[Pacack]

He's not ineligible, but Disney will 100% NEVER let it happen.

Not unless something monumental happens (see: Mario being used extensively in Wreck-it-Ralph 2 in return.) Disney's very, very protective of Mickey.

 

[One winged Devil]

I hope we don't get any more FE characters. The series already has 6
FE has the same reps as Pokemon
FE has 1 more than Zelda
FE has 4 more than Metroid
FE has 4 more than DK
FE has 3 more than Kirby

All of those series are nothing like FE since every FE game gets different types of characters that can be used in a Smash game.

Zelda already had the triforce trio, the only other important Zelda character who isn't in yet is Impa.

Metroid only had two important characters to the series and he may or may not be getting in.

Dk isn't as popular as FE, not to say that I don't want another fighter, Dixie and Krool would be awesome.

Kirby had only two choices, Bannda Dee or Zero.

So even if they all got one newcomer, that would mean that FE would still have more fighters, more if they decide to add more.

And even then FE

Also, yes, this means that Mickey is arguably not an impossible request due to Kingdom Hearts, which gives him gaming history. It can also be argued that he popularized the very idea of mascots, which is of historic importance to gaming today.

Not that he's likely, but he's not completely ineligible.

Personally I think Wreck it Ralph should be a fighter in that case.

 

[Kirbunny431]

Bayonetta got in the game when she only had one game on a Nintendo console, and Cloud is in too. An individual character's significance to Nintendo isn't always the deciding factor.

Ballot + Bayonetta 2 was exclusive to Nintendo and the only reason the character is even relevant today. But it's true that his lack of relevance to Nintendo doesn't hinder him. Still, that doesn't help him when put up against the likes of Bomberman, Banjo, Simon, Snake, Steve, Shantae, or others that aren't coming to mind.

 

[Hinata]

Seems Joker conversation has died off. My time has come to return to my lurking state...

Heheh, ain't that a mood.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Seems Joker conversation has died off. My time has come to return to my lurking state...

Dude why we stopping fam? It's the most effective conversation since we started today

After all, E-3 is going to take our hearts next week

 

[Pacack]

Personally I think Wreck it Ralph should be a fighter in that case.

He may actually be ineligible, as Sakurai's rules do at least assume a game release of some sort. Unless I'm mistaken, I don't believe he's had any games.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Mickey Mouse makes more sense than...idk some people

 

[Pacack]

Mickey Mouse makes more sense than...idk some people

Goku.

Mickey Mouse makes more sense than Goku does.

 

[BluePikmin11]

In regards to Joker:

I do not think Joker is a possibility right now for the base game. It is unlikely Atlus would negotiate with Sakurai to put Joker in Smash, especially around the time of roster planning, the game did not even come out yet. If there were going to be characters chosen from 2017 games, it would be Nintendo games like ARMS, Fire Emblem Echoes, or Xenoblade 2, not third-parties. If Sakurai did choose a Persona character, it would be Yu Narukami, given that his game was the most popular Persona game at the time. But I do not see that happening because of the ballot. I find it unlikely that Yu would be highly voted. Maybe when DLC comes and the popularity of Joker rises immensely, I could see it. But I do not see it happening right now.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Dude why we stopping fam? It's the most effective conversation since we started today

After all, E-3 is going to take our hearts next week

Good things must happen in moderation or else they will become less interesting, young padawan. His time will come again.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Dk isn't as popular as FE,

You're right, DK is more popular than FE.

 

[Hinata]

In regards to Joker:

I do not think Joker is a possibility right now for the base game.

Says the one supportin' Sora and a Hanafuda character.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

He may actually be ineligible, as Sakurai's rules do at least assume a game release of some sort. Unless I'm mistaken, I don't believe he's had any games.

He's had a game.

Also, when the ballot was created, they asked us for "game characters only", so there may be an implication he doesn't want characters that didn't originate in games as playable. It's a bit vague, but there's enough signs to come to the conclusion that beyond 1st party characters, he wants 3rd parties to be game characters first.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Goku.

Mickey Mouse makes more sense than Goku does.

True...though both will never get to Smash

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

In regards to Joker:

I do not think Joker is a possibility right now for the base game. It is unlikely Atlus would negotiate with Sakurai to put Joker in Smash, especially around the time of roster planning, the game did not even come out yet. If there were going to be characters chosen from 2017 games, it would be Nintendo games like ARMS, Fire Emblem Echoes, or Xenoblade 2, not third-parties. If Sakurai did choose a Persona character, it would be Yu Narukami, given that his game was the most popular Persona game at the time. But I do not see that happening because of the ballot. I find it unlikely that Yu would be highly voted. Maybe when DLC comes and the popularity of Joker rises immensely, I could see it. But I do not see it happening right now.

I mean maybe? But by that logic Rex and Springman are no-go's. I get that they're first party, but they still would have had to follow the same process of a consultation with Sakurai to figure out details you wouldn't know before the game came out.

EDIT: I guess I didn't thoroughly read the middle of your post, but still, Joker would have the same issues any character would experience if their game hadn't come out yet. I don't think you can say Joker won't get in but Rex will. If Sakurai contacted Atlus in 2016 about adding a character, you can put money on them pushing Joker.

EDIT2: All that being said, I have always believed he'd be likelier as DLC anyway. The topic of that rumor came up and much of what we discussed about Joker revolved around him vs a SMT character rather than whether he'd be in the base roster or not.

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

I love you guys Embarrass

 

[Pacack]

He's had a game.

Also, when the ballot was created, they asked us for "game characters only", so there may be an implication he doesn't want characters that didn't originate in games as playable. It's a bit vague, but there's enough signs to come to the conclusion that beyond 1st party characters, he wants 3rd parties to be game characters first.

When did that happen?

See, I would agree, but I think "King Mickey" from the Kingdom Hearts franchise is arguably a "game character." He just would've "debuted" as a video game character in Kingdom Hearts.

That's all I'm saying. Unlikely? Yes. Ineligible? Maybe not.