Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Bowserlick]

I see Beedle as a heavyweight (large backpack) that tries to control the stage and air with items.

- Octoballoon as an aerial mine (Beedle does not explode the balloon upon impact, but rather changes its trajectory by bumping into his weapon)

- Beetle from Skyward Sword that grabs an opponent and slowly lifts him or her into the air allowing Beedle to come in for a combo

- All purpose bait that can attract animals such as cuccos

 

[Yoshisaurus Rex]

Guys, check this out

https://twitter.com/NGameTheCube/status/1002952093135589382

Sorry I do not know how to link twitter images to here.

Sorry but FE: Reawakening? No Spyro? I call blasphemy!

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Maybe Smash Bros IS the title.

-shrug-

ReAwakening could also hint at the Awakening cast getting another game somehow?

Though I doubt that cast getting a sequel story.

 

[DYED]

Oh boy, oh boy.
Awakening is my favorite Fire Emblem, if the Switch title is set in its universe I could goddam scream.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

If it's true?

Lol. That Lucina getting cut rumor makes even less sense.

''Let's cut the most popular character from Awakening when it gets a sequel!"

 

[Autumn ♫]

I'm not too knowledgeable of Zelda but I think more often than not Impa's an old lady. There's more games where she's old and a nursemaid than there are where she's young.

Young Impa appears in Ocarina of Time, Skyward Sword, and Hyrule Warriors

Old Impa appears in Adventure of Link, Link Between Worlds, and BotW

And Oracles Impa is her own thing.

So Young Impa and Old Impa have appeared about the same amount of times. Pretty sure that Younger Impa is way more iconic too, so I don't really know how old Impa keeps getting used as a negative for Impa.

 

[Pokechu]

Maybe Smash Bros IS the title.

-shrug-

ReAwakening could also hint at the Awakening cast getting another game somehow?

Though I doubt that cast getting a sequel story.

Wouldn't it be called Smash Bros. for Nintendo Switch at the very least, though?

And FE:A wrapped itself up too neatly for it to get a sequel imo, its main villain is

Spoiler

either dead or in hibernation for 1000 years depending on your choice at the end of the story, so if the "ReAwakening" refers to Grima waking up then literally the whole cast aside from maybe Nah, Tiki, Nowi, and the taguels maybe? would be dead

also the lack of yoshi is really strange, considering I don't think we've heard anything about it since last E3? but idk, I'm rambling at this point

 

[Autumn ♫]

Guys, check this out

https://twitter.com/NGameTheCube/status/1002952093135589382

Sorry I do not know how to link twitter images to here.

This kinda reminds me of those "anybody can make a leak" pictures.

But I would hype so much for Fire Emblem Reawakening, assuming it takes place in Lucina's timeline, and tells the story of the resistance against Grima's rule.

 

[SmashChu]

One problem I have with the Smash community (or at least the speculation side) is that people have become less skeptical, not more skeptical, over time. This is evidenced by the fact that everyone called "rumor" "leaks". Leaks are proven true, rumors aren't. These are rumors. Back in Brawl, everyone assumed every rumor was false until proven otherwise. Some true leaks were ignored because people didn't believe them. Now, EVERY rumor is true and taken at face value.

First, on Vergeben, most of what he has said on Nintendo has been either unproven or is false. He claimed MP4 would be shown in the January Direct. It wasn't. He claimed Gen 8 was coming this year. It's not. He has also claimed that Hearthstone was coming when we've seen no evidence of that and the WEWY2 was coming when in fact its just a re-release of the first game. He has not been right on anything related to Nintendo, and most of his rumors are unconfirmed. The only think you can kind of give him credit for was the Virtual Console changing, but duh, I said that as well. Does this mean Smashchu is in contact with Reggie and knows the whole roster. No. Even then, its clear from his comments he knew nothing about it.

"But he's right on some things." Cool, but that doesn't mean they are right here. The internet soothsayers sometimes get things right and do have inside info, but often they'll add fake info for attention, and when its proven wrong they will lean back on what was right and claim "plans changed." This was basically what Laura Dale did leading up to the Nintendo Switch presentation. Laura knew about Rabbids (as did a lot of people as I've been told). But if you look through what Laura was saying, almost all of it was wrong. She was wrong about the price, Zelda's release date, Odyssey's release date, Splatoon 2 being a port, Smash Bros releasing within the first 6th months, Skyrim's release date, and, of course, Mother 3. Its obvious she embellished this information to bring attention to herself. The reason she was outed here is because Rabbids didn't come till E3 (see claimed it would have been at the presentation and a launch title). Liam Robertson does something similar where he adds "extra" info. He did this for Rabbids (and I know he was wrong on at least the DK Rabbid dabbing) and he did it again for Star Fox Grand Prix. On that last point, notice how everyone jumped on that when the image was shown off and then Liam having a plethora of extra info. Why didn't he say that before? In fact, why did that information come a few days after and not immediately since he knew of it. Could it be because they are bandwagoning?

On Vergeben, he seems to be doing the same. Gen 8 is evidence of this. Nintendo had Pokemon listed as 2018 or TBA, and most everyone expected it to come out in 2018. Gen 8 would be a safe bet as everyone assumed this would have been direct follow-up to Sun and Moon. What actually happened was Lets Go which is not Gen 8. This I think shows he's embellishing. Laura did the same thing with Splatoon being a port. It seemed like a safe bet at the time. Its also telling how little he knew of the NES title for Nintendo service as he still called it "Virtual Console" when Nintendo never used that term for the service and has confirmed it's dead. You'd think he would have said that other than "it's changing."

On the Heroes and Villians thing, you can do a "smell test." First, the leaks never had the full roster, even this late into development. Even if you believe Gematsu was true, there were numerous characters he never had including Bowser Jr, Duck Hunt, Lucina, Dark Pit and Rosalina. The leaks that came out for Brawl had bits and pieces and people only knew the whole roster because they put it all together. The only reason the entire roster came out for Smash 4 is because someone took screenshots and videos of the version sent to the ESRB for review. Second, Smash has done two things. First, the game features characters who are relevant. Melee does this too with characters from OoT, Roy from the newest Fire Emblem and Pichu. Second, the roster never includes irrelevant characters unless they are considered classics (Pit, ROB, Game and Watch, IC, Little Mac, and Duck Hunt). Porky and Goroh haven't been in a game in over a decade. At the same time, Lucas and Wolf were cut as they didn't have a game in ages (though Lucas was later added back). Why would these characters be added at all? Also, why would you have a game focus on Villians but not have Waluigi, a villainous character who is actually incredibly popular? Just seems odd.

Here is the thing. Some characters may get out before the game is announced. Its possible, but it's not as common as people think. It has only really happened once with E3 2013 and that's if you believe Gematsu actually knew something or it was a string of good guesses (the only oddball he ever had was WFT). We didn't get a leak for Brawl and didn't get one for E3 2014. Also, the first characters announced are from new series. Brawl had Wario, MGS and Kid Icarus while Smash 4 had Megaman, AC and Wii Fit. You should expect something like ARMS in the first batch of characters. You would also only get a few as these would be the ones announced there.

One last thing. There are going to be a LOT of fakes out there. This E3 had a lot of leaks with the Wal-Mart leak happening, so people are smelling blood in the water. Everyone wants their 15 minutes of fame, so they will make up fakes to try and get it. This will definitely be true of Smash as well. I expect most of what has come out is bogus with a few exceptions. So take everything with a grain of salt. The burden of proof should be on the people making these claims, so doubt them until something comes out that confirms it (and something they couldn't just guess).

And stop calling rumors leaks, please.
EDIT: touched this up as there were a few grammatical errors

 

[Opossum]

Guys, check this out

https://twitter.com/NGameTheCube/status/1002952093135589382

Sorry I do not know how to link twitter images to here.

Like it was mentioned, it's odd that Fire Emblem has its subtitle but not Smash.

And on that note, Reawakening is a bit on the nose for an Awakening sequel, and also has other things off about it. Fire Emblem games that are sequels tend to have title similarities (Path of Radiance to Radiant Dawn, Binding Blade and Blazing Blade) but never to that degree. Hell in the case of Shadow Dragon/Mystery of the Emblem and Geneaology of the Holy War/Thracia 776, there are no title similarities.

But the biggest thing is that it doesn't relate to something in-game, like basically all the other titles. Shadow Dragon refers to the main antagonist, Medeus. Mystery of the Emblem refers to the lore surrounding the titular Fire Emblem itself. Geneaology of the Holy War is exactly what it says on the tin. Thracia 776 is literally the country and year the game takes place in. Binding Blade and Blazing Blade refer to the main characters' signature weapons (Roy's Binding Blade and Eliwood's Durandal). The Sacred Stones are the plot MacGuffins of Magvel. I haven't played the Tellius games so I'll leave them out. The Awakening is the ritual Chrom performed late in the game to power up Falchion. Fates refers to the branching paths Corrin could take. Shadows of Valentia literally refers to he darkness looming over the continent.

Gaiden is the only odd duck, literally meaning "side story" like how Reawakening literally means "Awakening sequel," but it was the second game and had a lot of unique quirks. But due to the fact that the Awakening was an important plot point in FE13, I can't see them naming this "Reawakening" without it having significant plot meaningfulness...which would be damn near impossible given the context.

I'd be hyped for an Awakening sequel, don't get me wrong, but this screams fake.

 

[Pokechu]

Young Impa appears in Ocarina of Time, Skyward Sword, and Hyrule Warriors

Old Impa appears in Adventure of Link, Link Between Worlds, and BotW

And Oracles Impa is her own thing.

So Young Impa and Old Impa have appeared about the same amount of times. Pretty sure that Younger Impa is way more iconic too, so I don't really know how old Impa keeps getting used as a negative for Impa.

I'm not sure if it's fair to count Hyrule Warriors in favor of Impa as it's a spinoff and it'd be a little strange to see Old Impa duking it out

Also didn't Impa appear in the original LoZ as well? I'm looking it up and it was just the game manual but she was an old lady there too

 

[Arcadenik]

Guys, check this out

https://twitter.com/NGameTheCube/status/1002952093135589382

Sorry I do not know how to link twitter images to here.

Fire Emblem Reawakening? Awakening sequel?

 

[Nekoo]

Guys, check this out

https://twitter.com/NGameTheCube/status/1002952093135589382

Sorry I do not know how to link twitter images to here.

The only real page is the Dragon Ball FighterZ one.
The other two are fakes, made by some 4chan users, riding the real one.

 

[Autumn ♫]

I'm not sure if it's fair to count Hyrule Warriors in favor of Impa as it's a spinoff and it'd be a little strange to see Old Impa duking it out

Also didn't Impa appear in the original LoZ as well? I'm looking it up and it was just the game manual but she was an old lady there too

Yeah, I didn't count manuals because well, they're manuals. It'd be like counting Impa's trophy in 4.

There's a fair chance we'll see HW stuff in Switch, plus it's been released 3 times already, so Aonuma or someone deems it important enough to release on 3 different systems. Vaati and Groose in Hyrule Warriors when? ;-;

 

[Pokechu]

Yeah, I didn't count manuals because well, they're manuals. It'd be like counting Impa's trophy in 4.

There's a fair chance we'll see HW stuff in Switch, plus it's been released 3 times already, so Aonuma or someone deems it important enough to release on 3 different systems. Vaati and Groose in Hyrule Warriors when? ;-;

Good points, I didn't think of it like that! I'll concede

Hyrule Warriors getting represented in Smash would be awesome and Impa would be the best character for it but I'm a little pessimistic about its chances of being represented to be honest, would be really cool though considering how IIRC it's actually one of the better-selling Warriors games.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

I don't really consider either to have great odds. (Though I won't claim they're impossible.) They just don't have the same star power of the other third parties to make up for being western (which does seem to matter.) If I had to say which one's more likely, though, I think the Dovakiin is more recognized as a player character. For Dark Souls, I think Solaire would happen before the Chosen Undead, to be honest.

Though I would argue Kamek has a lot more going for him than either of them

Dark Souls is Japanese.
You're right about Solaire being a better pick, though. What does Kamek have on him given the huge saturation of Mario characters weighed against a globally successful series that hasn't gotten any representation yet?

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Ganon is the main villain though so it'd be silly to not have him.

I'm not too knowledgeable of Zelda but I think more often than not Impa's an old lady. There's more games where she's old and a nursemaid than there are where she's young.

That's why I think Tingle genuinely has more of a shot than her, not to mention how aside from appearing in the main Zelda games he also has his own spinoffs.

Not saying they're of equal importance but they both change often and despite Ganon being his usual form, Ganondorf is in smash since he fits better, the same would apply for young impa. And impa is always the guardian of princess Zelda regardless of her age, this is true in Zelda 1 and 2, the oracle games, albw, botw, skyward sword, ocarina of time and hyrule warriors. She's still a fairly important character. Tingle's problem honestly comes in the fact that he's greatly disliked by the majority of fans, that's why he didn't get into hyrule warriors right away.

 

[Pacack]

Maybe so. But I just don't think it's likely. Even Poochy seems more plausible to me. Besides that, we already have 2 Mario universe villains. Bowser Jr. could very well stand in for Baby Bowser in concept. I also really doubt Yoshi's Island will get a second character ever, much like F-Zero.

I know you don't think he's likely, but the criticisms you're making aren't answering my question of why.

Poochy, while well enough known, frankly isn't recognized as much as Kamek is. Further, he doesn't seem to do much that could be naturally used to make a full moveset that still feels interesting.

Further, while it's true that we don't need another villain from the Mario universe, that is a lack of a positive trait rather than an inherently negative one. We also didn't need six Fire Emblem protagonists or six third party characters, but we got them.

In fact, the same argument could be used for the DK series against K. Rool. After all, the Donkey Kong franchise is part of the Mario universe, and we don't need another villain from that world, right?

The Yoshi franchise doesn't need another character, sure, but that's not enough to discount the character. You especially need to consider that the Mario universe is Nintendo's flagship. Adding more characters from that world makes perfect sense given how far-reaching and beloved the franchises under its umbrella are.

We could get Toad, Captain Toad, Paper Mario, Waluigi, Daisy, Kamek, Ashley, Dixie Kong, Cranky Kong, Funky Kong, and King K. Rool and all of those additions would be deserving.

Each one is well known and loved, and I guarantee more people would recognize them than would recognize Ness or Captain Falcon or Shulk or Pit or Olimar. The character has credentials all his own, and being another villain from the Mario universe doesn't hurt him in the slightest.

You say the the Yoshi series is about as likely to get a newcomer as the F-Zero series is, but you've yet to give a clear reason why.

The Yoshi series has 13 games to its name and has likely sold multiple times more than the Mother or Xenoblade or Kid Icarus franchises. (Sales data is not all released, but we at least know that Yoshi's Island sold 4 million copies.) It has had games releasing consistently since the SNES and it's even due to get another game soon. In the time period Sakurai was likely looking at for roster selection, the Yoshi franchise had three releases. And that's not even counting Kamek's appearances in the Mario franchise.

So, allow me to reiterate my question. Aside from the assumptions that only popular characters get in and that Mario sub-series are doomed not to get more characters, why is Kamek, a recurring and recognized villain (I'm confident enough to say more of the casual modern audience knows him than K. Rool) from a popular and growing staple franchise of Nintendo so unlikely?

I want you to give me something that's more concrete. Popularity alone isn't the decisive factor in what characters get chosen, and there's no more reason to assume that the Yoshi series can't get a newcomer than there is to assume such for the Donley Kong series.

 

[Bowserlick]

A Mallow/Geno tag-team would possibly allow Sakurai to recycle his Diddy/Dixie tag-team idea that did not come to fruition in Brawl.

 

[TheWozny]

I would much rather them give Sheik's moveset to Impa and make Sheik a costume; Impa is way more important than Sheik, and they have essentially the same moveset.

inb4 "what about hyrule warriors giant blade!"

I would really rather not have non-canon Zelda stuff in Smash when the moveset can go to a more important character. I don't enjoy using spinoff/ non-canon games as the basis for movesets. I know Smash itself is non-canon, but it gets it's context from the canon source.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For Kamek, I see no issue except of coming up with some moves. He is the main-antagonist of a long-running healthy series, but has shortcomings.

Unlike pokemon, Mario enemies are more non-unique, even if they're special. Although Kamek is a unique Magikoopa, he is still sharing the design of an everyday enemy.

For me, I'd put Kamek in a roster if I could make the game, but I highly doubt we'll see him within the near future of Smash Bros. His moveset could be quiet unique.

Also, don't tell me Bowser Jr. could essential be "baby bowser"; they are two different characters.

 

[Arcadenik]

A Mallow/Geno tag-team would possibly allow Sakurai to recycle his Diddy/Dixie tag-team idea that did not come to fruition in Brawl.

Diddy & Dixie... Diddy & Dixie... Diddy & Dixie...

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I would much rather them give Sheik's moveset to Impa and make Sheik a costume; Impa is way more important than Sheik, and they have essentially the same moveset.

inb4 "what about hyrule warriors giant blade!"

I would really rather not have non-canon Zelda stuff in Smash when the moveset can go to a more important character. I don't enjoy using spinoff/ non-canon games as the basis for movesets. I know Smash itself is non-canon, but it gets it's context from the canon source.

See the thing you're actually forgetting about Sheik however?

She's from possibly the most critically acclaimed and beloved Zelda game of all time. She's the only thing truly remaining from it in Smash Brothers at this point. And her twist is one of the most talked about twists in gaming history.

Not to mention the competitive scene loved Sheik for a good a bit as well.

So yeah? Sheik IS important.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Honestly I don't see the issue with hyrule warriors stuff, yeah it may be non-canon but I don't think that really matters tbh, and Aonuma still supervised the game and had to approve everything that went in it anyway.

See the thing you're actually forgetting about Sheik however?

She's from possibly the most critically acclaimed and beloved Zelda game of all time. She's the only thing truly remaining from it in Smash Brothers at this point. And her twist is one of the most talked about twists in gaming history.

Not to mention the competitive scene loved Sheik for a good a bit as well.

So yeah? Sheik IS important.

Don't see why they couldn't pull a wolf and just make her a semi-clone, might as well have both

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Impa is my want for Zelda's next character, but I understand why she's highly unlikely.

She wages from inactive sagely old lady, to bad ass Sheikah, to wise plump lady who looks like your mother.

There's no consistent image of this character like the Tri-Force trio. Even when the art style of Zelda changes, you can look at Link, Zelda, and Ganon in each game and you know that's them.

That's not really the case with Impa. Everytime she's reborn in the story? It's a vastly different form.

 

[Pacack]

Dark Souls is Japanese.
You're right about Solaire being a better pick, though. What does Kamek have on him given the huge saturation of Mario characters weighed against a globally successful series that hasn't gotten any representation yet?

I was unaware that Dark Souls was Japanese. That does make a difference in my mind. In that case, I'd say Solaire is leagues more likely than Dovakiin.

Regardless, he's still a third party, and I tend not to rate any of those as particularly likely, since so many companies have to be considered for so few possible third party choices.

I consider Kamek more likely because

• He's owned by Nintendo.
• His series has been particularly active since the last Smash game.
• He's recognized more than several characters already on the roster.
• The Mario universe tends to get at least two newcomers every game. (, , , )
• The pool of iconic Nintendo characters is shrinking, and the Mario universe's C list characters still are A tier compared to what we have left.
• The character is filled with potential for a unique moveset, having several forms of magic (teleportation, duplication, animation of inanimate objects, size modification, pyrokinesis, magic blasts) that could draw Sakurai to him.
• The Dark Souls series isn't quite at the icon status I expect from third parties, and I would expect to see characters like Bomberman, Rayman, Simon Belmont, Phoenix Wright, Steve, Sora, Shovel Knight, Tails, and Crash before Solaire.
• The Dark Souls series, while definitely a success, is a relatively new franchise compared to the majority of third parties currently in Smash. (Bayonetta is weird because of the ballot and Nintendo saving her franchise/making it an exclusive.) I suspect that Sakurai wants third party characters to have an unarguable legacy and proven staying power before he adds them to Smash. I think Dark Souls is on the edge of being there, but I don't think it's there yet.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Although I'm team "give Impa an original breath of the wild inspired design", you'd have to be crazy to think this wouldn't make the coolest smash character ever tbh and those are the facts

 

[StrangeMann]

Lots of fake leaks coming out of 4chan today. There might eventually be a real one slipped within the cracks, but I doubt it to be honest. 10 days to go until E3... But I'm holding out for now for leaked pictures from the floor.

 

[Deleted member]

>Getting mad over something that is literally a rumor
That would be dumb in all honestly, me, I just enjoy the ride until it crash against a wall and take another one until reaching the final destination- that's what I love for smash speculation.
But knowing that this rumor can be debunked in the following day is something nice to know nonetheless

We are talking about the Vergeben rumor right?

I can't keep track of anything anymore.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Hyrule Warriors Impa just proves the point about Impa being vastily different across all her appearances even further.

She has similarities with the stark white hair and the role she has to Zelda in Warriors to Ocarina's Impa, but then literally all her weapons are quite ''This is not something any of the prior Impa's would wield."

So while bad ass. It's not exactly an encompassing image of Impa as a character either.

 

[---]

One problem I have with the Smash community (or at least the speculation side) is that people have become less skeptical, not more skeptical, over time. This is evidenced by the fact that everyone called "rumor" "leaks". Leaks are proven true, rumors aren't. These are rumors. Back in Brawl, everyone assumed every rumor was false until proven otherwise. Some true leaks were ignored because people didn't believe them. Now, EVERY rumor is true and taken at face value.

First, on Vergeben, most of what he has said on Nintendo has been either unproven or is false. He claimed MP4 would be shown in the January Direct. It wasn't. He claimed Gen 8 was coming this year. It's not. He has also claimed that Hearthstone was coming when we've seen no evidence of that and the WEWY2 was coming when in fact its just a re-release of the first game. He has not been right on anything related to Nintendo, and most of his rumors are unconfirmed. The only think you can kind of give him credit for was the Virtual Console changing, but duh, I said that as well. Does this mean Smashchu is in content with Reggie and knows the whole roster. No. Even then, its clear from his comments he knew nothing about it.

"But he's right on some things." Cool, but that doesn't mean they are right here. The internet soothsayers sometimes get things right and do have inside info, but often they'll add fake info for attention and when its proven wrong will lean back on what was right and claim "plans changed." This was basically what Laura Dale did leading up to the Nintendo Switch presentation. Laura new about Rabbids (as did a lot of people as I've been told). But if you look through what Laura was saying, almost all of it was wrong. She was wrong about the price, Zelda's release date, Odyssey's release date, Splatoon 2 being a port, Smash Bros releasing within the first 6th months, Skyrim's release date, and, of course, Mother 3. Its obvious she embellished this information to bring attention to herself. The reason she was outed here is because Rabbids didn't come till E3 (see claimed it would have been at the presentation and a launch title). Liam Robertson does something similar where he adds "extra" info. He did this for Rabbids (and I know he was wrong on at least the DK Rabbid dabbing) and he did it again for Star Fox Grand Prix. On that last point, notice how everyone jumped on that when the image was shown off and then Liam having a plethora of extra info. Why didn't he say that before? In fact, why did that information come a few days after and not immidiatly since he knew of it. Could it be because they are bandwagoning?

On Vergeben, he seems to be doing the same. Gen 8 is evidence of this. Nintendo had Pokemon listed as 2018 or TBA, and most everyone expected it to come out in 2018. Gen 8 would be a safe bet because that's the next Pokemon title. What actually happened was Lets Go which is not Gen 8. This I think shows he's embellishing. Laura did the same thing with Splatoon being a port. It seemed like a safe bet at the time. Its also telling how little he knew of the NES title for Nintendo service as he still called it "Virtual Console" when Nintendo never used that term for the service and has confirmed it's dead. You'd think he would have said that other than "it's changing."

On the Heroes and Villians thing, you can do a "smell test." First, the leaks never had the full roster, even this late into development. Even if you believe Gematsu was true, there were numerous characters he never had including Bowser Jr, Duck Hunt, Lucina, Dark Pit and Rosalina. The leaks that came out for Brawl had bits and pieces and people only knew the whole roster because they put it all together. The only reason the entire roster came out for Smash 4 is because someone took screenshots and videos of the version sent to the ESRB for review. Second, Smash has done two things. First, the game features characters who are relevant. Melee does this too with characters from OoT, Roy from the newest Fire Emblem and Pichu. Second, the roster never includes irrelevant characters unless they are considered classics (Pit, ROB, Game and Watch, IC, Little Mac, and Duck Hunt). Porky and Goroh haven't been in a game in over a decade. At the same time, Lucas and Wolf were cut as they didn't have a game in ages (though Lucas was later added back). Why would these characters be added at all. Also, why would you have a game focus on Villians but not have Waluigi, a villainous character who is actually incredibly popular? Just seems odd.

Here is the thing. Some characters may get out before the game is announced. Its possible, but not as common as people think. It's only really happened once with E3 2013 and that's if you believe Gematsu actually knew something or it was a string of good guesses (the only oddball he ever had was WFT). We didn't get a leak for Brawl and didn't get one for E3 2014. Also, the first characters announced as from new series. Brawl had Wario, MGS and Kid Icarus while Smash 4 had Megaman, AC and Wii Fit. You should expect something like ARMS in the first batch of characters. You would also only get a few as these would be the ones announced there.

One last thing. There are going to be a LOT of fakes out there. This E3 had a lot of leaks with the Wal-Mart leak happening, so people are smelling blood in the water. Everyone wants their 15 minutes of fame, so they will make up fakes to try and get it. This will definitely be true of Smash as well. I expect most of what has come out is bogus with a few exceptions. So take everything with a grain of salt. The burden of proof should be on the people making these claims, so doubt them until something comes out that confirms it (and something they couldn't just guess).

Most of what I've been thinking of all week but didn't feel like writing out. Thank you good sir. As fun as they were, Gematsu, ESRB, and the Mewtwo Patch really spoiled the Smash community. A lot of these rumors I see as nothing more than click-bait.

That said, if you're coming up with a rumor please also include some stages, modes, or new features. If you're getting a behind-the-scenes look at something I doubt the company showing it to you will want you to only focus on a single image of a CSS or a single paragraph of a Press Release.

And stop calling rumors leaks please.

I would hope we can all at least agree on this.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Hold the **** up. Please tell me Awakening isn't getting milked again

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Although I'm team "give Impa an original breath of the wild inspired design", you'd have to be crazy to think this wouldn't make the coolest smash character ever tbh and those are the facts

It's been a long time since I've seen that moveset and I had forgotten about it completely.
I can't believe that people are hyping up the sword that much. It's samey and sloppily animated. From a technical standpoint, it might actually be the worst in the game that I've seen. I don't like a lot of the style of the game, but usually it's not that poorly made.
The Naginata is alright, but we have Bandana Waddle Dee for pole arms.

 

[KingBroly]

The only part of the 4chan leak that I want to be true is the character customization part.

The Roster leak I don't buy. It's too safe for Sakurai.

 

[Roberk]

While I am extremely skeptical that FE Switch will be a sequel to Awakening: A) A sequel after we've had Fates and SOV to distance ourselves from Awakening, all other sequels are directly after the original game, so this would be an exception, B) Rewakening? That's a terrible title for a franchise that has stuff like Genealogy of the Holy War, Path of Radiance, etc. Seems very unprofessional, and C) Having FE's mainline debut on the Switch be a sequel connected to a past game. But who knows, maybe they'll be riding the Awakening success even more directly than Fates, it's plausible.

Maybe I'll be more hyped for this rumor over the next week, my copy of Awakening arrived in the mail yesterday and the refurbished 2DS I ordered to play it(since I couldn't repair my old 3DS) will arrive on Monday.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I know you don't think he's likely, but the criticisms you're making aren't answering my question of why.

Poochy, while well enough known, frankly isn't recognized as much as Kamek is. Further, he doesn't seem to do much that could be naturally used to make a full moveset that still feels interesting.

Further, while it's true that we don't need another villain from the Mario universe, that is a lack of a positive trait rather than an inherently negative one. We also didn't need six Fire Emblem protagonists or six third party characters, but we got them.

In fact, the same argument could be used for the DK series against K. Rool. After all, the Donkey Kong franchise is part of the Mario universe, and we don't need another villain from that world, right?

The Yoshi franchise doesn't need another character, sure, but that's not enough to discount the character. You especially need to consider that the Mario universe is Nintendo's flagship. Adding more characters from that world makes perfect sense given how far-reaching and beloved the franchises under its umbrella are.

We could get Toad, Captain Toad, Paper Mario, Waluigi, Daisy, Kamek, Ashley, Dixie Kong, Cranky Kong, Funky Kong, and King K. Rool and all of those additions would be deserving.

Each one is well known and loved, and I guarantee more people would recognize them than would recognize Ness or Captain Falcon or Shulk or Pit or Olimar. The character has credentials all his own, and being another villain from the Mario universe doesn't hurt him in the slightest.

You say the the Yoshi series is about as likely to get a newcomer as the F-Zero series is, but you've yet to give a clear reason why.

The Yoshi series has 13 games to its name and has likely sold multiple times more than the Mother or Xenoblade or Kid Icarus franchises. (Sales data is not all released, but we at least know that Yoshi's Island sold 4 million copies.) It has had games releasing consistently since the SNES and it's even due to get another game soon. In the time period Sakurai was likely looking at for roster selection, the Yoshi franchise had three releases. And that's not even counting Kamek's appearances in the Mario franchise.

So, allow me to reiterate my question. Aside from the assumptions that only popular characters get in and that Mario sub-series are doomed not to get more characters, why is Kamek, a recurring and recognized villain (I'm confident enough to say more of the casual modern audience knows him than K. Rool) from a popular and growing staple franchise of Nintendo so unlikely?

I want you to give me something that's more concrete. Popularity alone isn't the decisive factor in what characters get chosen, and there's no more reason to assume that the Yoshi series can't get a newcomer than there is to assume such for the Donley Kong series.

You are making sense, except for the last part.

DKC has established itself as way more distinct from the Mario franchise than Yoshi's Island.

Remember the whole plot of Yoshi's Island? Reuniting Baby with Baby by beating Baby . This sounds pretty damn Mario to me... Compare that to all the plots of Donkey Kong Country. Also remember how the whole of Yoshi's Island is pretty much filled with enemies from the Mario franchise. Not nearly all of them, but you get my point.

Yes I suppose the franchise is far more likely to get a newcomer than F-Zero. But Kamek? I really doubt it honestly. For various reasons.

First of all, it's design isn't honestly very apart from the generic Magikoopas, neither are Kamek's abilities outside of making boss characters giant sized. There's honestly not even that much to work with. Secondly, Yoshi's Island is the MOST linked seperate franchise to Mario's with it's own emblem in Smash. And thirdly, Kamek is probably not even all too popular.

Sure Yoshi's Island is more alive now than ever, which is a nice surprise. But I honestly am not gonna expect a newcomer from this franchise ever. And am rather puzzled why you would honestly.

 

[Just a random scrub]

Soon. So Soon.

And yet so far. So Far.

 

[M_Patch]

Lots of fake leaks coming out of 4chan today. There might eventually be a real one slipped within the cracks, but I doubt it to be honest. 10 days to go until E3... But I'm holding out for now for leaked pictures from the floor.

None of them even marginally worth debate?

...Oh, who am I kidding.

 

[T-Hell]

What if the riddler leak happens to be just like the Gematsu leak, real but outdated, hence with a few missing characters and a few additions not in the list.

By the way, I don't think so much will leak from the E3 builds these days, maybe I'm just trusting them too much lmao.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

The only part of the 4chan leak that I want to be true is the character customization part.

What's this referring to?

 

[Pacack]

You are making sense, except for the last part.

DKC has established itself as way more distinct from the Mario franchise than Yoshi's Island.

Remember the whole plot of Yoshi's Island? Reuniting Baby with Baby by beating Baby . This sounds pretty damn Mario to me... Compare that to all the plots of Donkey Kong Country. Also remember how the whole of Yoshi's Island is pretty much filled with enemies from the Mario franchise. Not nearly all of them, but you get my point.

Yes I suppose the franchise is far more likely to get a newcomer than F-Zero. But Kamek? I really doubt it honestly. For various reasons.

First of all, it's design isn't honestly very apart from the generic Magikoopas, neither are Kamek's abilities outside of making boss characters giant sized. There's honestly not even that much to work with. Secondly, Yoshi's Island is the MOST linked seperate franchise to Mario's with it's own emblem in Smash. And thirdly, Kamek is probably not even all too popular.

Sure Yoshi's Island is more alive now than ever, which is a nice surprise. But I honestly am not gonna expect a newcomer from this franchise ever. And am rather puzzled why you would honestly.

We can agree on the DKC series being more distinct. My main point was that being from a Mario spinoff doesn't immediately doom a character.

The Yoshi series is indeed more linked to the Mario franchise, as its games tend to take place before the Mario Bros. are adults. However, this doesn't undermine the significance of the series and games like Yoshi's Island.

Kamek isn't popularly requested, but he is still a prominent character in the Mario and Yoshi franchises who would be recognized by the more casual audience.

He's Bowser's go-to henchman, having appeared in New Super Mario Bros., NSMBW, NSMBU, the Mario and Luigi series, Super Mario Galaxy, the Paper Mario series, and several spinoffs aside from being the main antagonist to Yoshi in his games.

That's an impressive resume. Compare it to how few games King K. Rool appears in (albeit as a much more central villain) and I think it's reasonable to say that Kamek is an opponent that players are familiar with. I compared the Google search frequency between the two villains, and Kamek seems to have a small edge over him.

His lack of a unique look hurts his chances, and I won't argue otherwise. However, I think it's still important that we consider the possibility of his inclusion as a Sakurai-esque surprise. He fits all the criteria to work.

That said, I want to be clear that I'm not so disillusioned to think that he's more likely than not. I just think he has a much better chance than we often give him credit for on these boards.