Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Captain Shwampy]

I want the races of zelda to be repped (zora, goron, gerudo, etc) plus you won't run into that complaint zelda characters have like midna or ghirahim were they only ever pop up in 1 or 2 games and never again.

You will likely see gorons and zoras in future games. Even if someone doesnt recognize someone like Darunia or Sidon in smash atleast they can say "oh hey its those rock mountain rolling guys/fish dudes from zelda."

 

[Nekoo]

Ok these new photos

How do we know they are fake?

Well, the E3 direct presentation is obligatory fake since we have a part of the E3 Nintendo floor saying that FighterZ and Fortnite will get announced.
The rest are up in the air, but the fact that one is a mix of Vergeben+Imgur+own stuff is a red flag.
And the others are all going for Vergeben as if it was the second coming of the Christ the problem with that being it would be kinda late for piggybacking especially if Vergeben Say something else now and of course.
Theyre all contradicting each other

 

[Zerp]

You are forgetting Corrin was actually a very unique character who added to the game. Chrom is just a sword fighter and he's not showing off anything Lucina and Robin don't. And he IS IN the game, assisting Robin.

Yes, Corrin didn't have the same problem Chrom did, but my point was that Sakurai stepped over his own thoughts to get Corrin in the game for one reason or another, probably because Intelligent Systems wanted them in. If Sakurai was willing to go against his own ideals and added Corrin even though he thought there was already enough Fire Emblem characters, do we really have anything suggesting he wouldn't be willing to add a non-unique character in the same scenario?

Also Roy didn't enter because marketing, Sakurai asked for IS for a character who can be a Marth clone.

Isn't that half-marketing still? They probably gave him Roy because they wanted exposure before his game gets out blablabla, they could have gave him a older character with a game already out instead.

 

[Troykv]

Hmm, lets see well this would be Lyn's theme

Spoiler: How My Character Would Appear

Out on the Plains, the wind blew with ominous uncertainty as the various warriors Fire Emblem would be fighting Ganondorf. Most would be injured yet not out of the fight. Roy with a bit of energy to spare, and determined to protect his comrades, Roy would fight one on one with The King of Evil himself in order to give his friends a chance to catch their second wind.

But this would be against their wishes.

Ganondorf was too strong for the brave Young Lion to face alone and unfortunately Ganondorf's would catch him

By the neck.

But, just as the corrosive darkness was about emanate from Ganondorf's hand and spread to Roy's throat, a powerful gust of wind nearly knock him off his feet, sliding him back. Catching his footing, he soon noticed the lack of weight in his right hand. "where's that red haired whelp" he wondered but as he moved to search for the young man, he found himself clutching his arm and sides in pain.

Him?

In pain?

Unheard of!

And yet three, no, five, nay seven bladed strikes marred his armor with deep gashes to his right arm, ribs, and right leg

"Who dares!? Who dares!?" He shouted his voice echoing across the Plains. He turned behind him, his teeth clench tightly in annoyance and pain staring down the warrior who harmed him. "Are you alright?" a warm gentle voice asked. Roy still shaken up and in a coughing fit, manage to nod towards the kind voice.

He looked up to see A lady with green hair, placing her sword in its sheath with a click. He could also see his rest friends rising to there feet their weapons in hand.

"My name is Lyn." She introduces herself while looking at everyone, she then looks towards Ganondorf with quiet fury. Ganondorf gaining back composure stands up straight, and sturdy with no sign of weakness despite the various wounds he suffered. But one could see a tinge of uncertainty reflected in his glaring dark yellow eyes. "Allow me to take care of this." Lyn suggested.

And like that a new wind blows, one that now was in the favor of our heroes.

Then this song would play.

I think Lyn's theme it should be x1.25 faster maybe.

Well embarrassing attempts of storytelling aside, this bring up a good question.

How would you imagine your favorite character appearing in a cutscene for their reveal trailer?

It's a nice idea.

In fact, some pages ago I post and idea I have for a Micaiah trailer,

Isn't complete, but I think it at least can work with some additional details and changes.

Spoiler

We start in a calm, sunny and cheerful day, everything at peace.

With a character (I will Ike in at least this version), walking around that place, he ended up finding a place to rest for a moment it looks like some kind of forgotten fortress with some broken parts letting the sun light being visible but not annoying. Things are nice for a moment, some birds are flying around, we in particular see a orange bird around the other birds (this doesn't initially too important outside of being a non common color compared with the rest of the more white-ish birds)

During a moment the music stops slowly and, the day becomes cloudier and darker, Ike notices something is weird and looks to his sides, nothing it's happening unti he sees he is now surronded for the *insert generic Cruel Arena Enemies, if they're Miis again make them look unnatural and a bit creepy, or at least feel soulless*,

and they're approaching him... Ike maintains and steady position, try to search and blink space, but there are so many

*I don't have idea which music use for the short battle scene, maybe Time Of Action*

A light ball drops from the sky and obliterate some of the enemies, letting Ike go outside his surronded position and now having the advantage (after all is Ike), and completing the fight with the help of this mysterious magician.

Ike looks up to the position of the mage, someone was also here in the fortress, but in a higher ground, he sees a female figure, the camera closes up, and we see Micaiah joining the battle... but isn't done yet, Micaiah decided to go down and approach Ike, they don't have a moment to actually interact because more of these beings are appearing, Ike and Micaiah join forces again to battle them, and then we go to gameplay. I think for this part the music would actually be a remix using these songs:

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Nintendo doesn't even care about Kamek enough to make him playable in the Mario spin off titles. They would rather have a generic magickoopa playable instead,
probably because they are basically the same thing.

 

[Arcadenik]

I want the races of zelda to be repped (zora, goron, gerudo, etc) plus you won't run into that complaint zelda characters have like midna or ghirahim were they only ever pop up in 1 or 2 games and never again.

You will likely see gorons and zoras in future games. Even if someone doesnt recognize someone like Darunia or Sidon in smash atleast they can say "oh hey its those rock mountain rolling guys/fish dudes from zelda."

I remember supporting Masked Link, which is basically Young Link who can transform into Deku Link, Goron Link, and Zora Link. This way, we would have gotten a playable Goron and Zora.

 

[Sonic Poke]

Spoiler

Those rumours are interesting, I've never seen them. But they all look fake.
The first one says that even YLink and Pichu return. Although I would love it to be true that is somewhat impossible.
The second is about gameplay and I don't know how this is relevant for a leak. The two on the botton left are clearly piggybacking and one of then uses a clever tactic saying there is a reason behind the way he did his image. Screams fake. The one in the reight was posted right after the pokemon announcement and has Eevee. Wrong timing to be somewhat plausible.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I remember supporting Masked Link, which is basically Young Link who can transform into Deku Link, Goron Link, and Zora Link. This way, we would have gotten a playable Goron and Zora.

And that way all the playable Zelda characters are still weilders of the Triforce.

I still want this deep down.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I remember supporting Masked Link, which is basically Young Link who can transform into Deku Link, Goron Link, and Zora Link. This way, we would have gotten a playable Goron and Zora.

A 3 person transforming character has proven to not work that well, let alone a 4 person one, they can keep that lol

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Chrom as a newcomer isn't farfetched either if Lucina gets reworked. Then they could even share a spot, Chrom being the "male Lucina", that's not Marth.

All cool in my book.

No. No. No. NO. Chrom is too bland and adds nothing to the roster other than another blue haired swordsman

I'd rather another FE Rep over one more from Awakening

 

[Pacack]

DKC Original trilogy is remembered until this days as one of the most iconic series on plataform gaming.Nintendo itself used "Country" name to regain some popularity and credibility to the franchise. A Yoshi Island game never had the exact impact that DKC has.

I'm not denying any of this.

Retro Studios avoided K.Rool because they wanted to do their own thing, and i also remembered reading (I may be spreading fake here, since I don't remember the source on this) that they were afraid of taking a wrong turn with the character. K.Rool appeared again in Sluggers as I reminder that Nintendo still remembers him in this modern games. He also appears at Donkey Kong Barrel Blast, on the Wii.

None of this refutes the fact that K. Rool has been absent from his series.

He is just much more of a character than Kamek, and I want to see arguments against this statement.

Kamek is a magikoopa. The main thing about his character is that he is "The magikoopa that was a caretaker for Bowser." I just read that "Kamek" is the name to a generic Mario enemy in some countries (Magikoopas).

How so? Having a generic design doesn't make him any less of an individual character. He's the specific Magikoopa who was caretaker for Bowser and who is today Bowser's loyal henchman. He's decidedly his own character, to the point thay he's sometimes called "Fang" in Japan to differentiate between him and his fellow magikoopa. He's also the individual who could be described as Yoshi's arch-enemy. He's generic looking, yeah, but he's still an individual.

All that said, I can't deny that he is maybe more recognizable for casual audiences than K.Rool. But I don't believe either of them would enter because of their popularity.
I'm not even saying K.Rool have a high chance of making in. I think we're overating his chances again.
But drawing comparison to Kamek is almost malicious. He is not a generic enemy made special because of a name. He was designed as the antagonist of Donkey Kong COUNTRY.

Again, I should emphasize that my reason for bringing up K. Rool was to draw parallels between the two main villains of Mario's spin-off titles in Smash (Wario doesn't really have a main villain to draw comparisons to.) If it is possible to get K. Rool as a character (and I think it is,) then there should be no problem with having another villain whose series is tied to the Mario universe.

It's an imperfect analogy, as DKC is more distinct from the Mario franchise, but it gets the point across that being an antagonist from the Mario universe is not enough of a reason to pass over a character completely.

I emphasize the negatives that K. Rool has merely to point out the oddity in simultaneously assuming that he is likely and that Kamek is not.

Both characters have strengths and weaknesses that ought to be taken into consideration, but the points against Kamek should not be seen as so significantly worse than K. Rool's negative points when one considers everything. It seems to me to be a case of bandwagoning and an echo chamber effect.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

A 3 person transforming character has proven to not work that well, let alone a 4 person one, they can keep that lol

There has yet to be a transforming character in Smash that didn't just have horrible faults in its design outside of "it transforms". Transforming characters in general are totally doable, as can be readily seen from games that aren't Smash.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

With the new E3 "leaks", the one with fire emblem, it's interesting that Yoshi & Starfox aren't there. Did the leaker just forget? Lol. Seems if I were making a fake I'd defintely include those.

Nothing really smash news wise though with this leak if it's true. That whole 3rd party thing with Vergeben looks like a bust too unless I'm missing something.

 

[Pacack]

Nintendo doesn't even care about Kamek enough to make him playable in the Mario spin off titles. They would rather have a generic magickoopa playable instead,
probably because they are basically the same thing.

Actually, that's a funny one.

I think the spinoff "kamek" in Mario spinoffs is supposed to be the individual "Kamek," but since there isn't a distinction in Japanese between their names, it was mistranslated into the English generic name "magikoopa."

 

[papagenos]

Sure, what people talk the most about are those rumor from Vergeben and some shady Imgur link-
DasVergeben is a leaker who have a good enough track record of being right on other games in the past, while being wrong in somes.

Also as a bonus, here, take the daily 4chan rumors of the days, that are almost all starting to piggyback Vergeben now lmao.

Spoiler

i'm definitely leaning towards vergeben probably having real info but even he says he has multiple sources so who know which pieces are true or if they all are or what.

then the imgr leak, if you look at the stuff near the bottom of that "leak collage image" and see the stuff about geno and mallow being tweeted, sakurai using a robot figure to model something in a game hes working on that could be used for elmas mech, and the weird stuff with zero suddenly being invited to a KH3 event... I'm not saying the leaks real just that either it did its homework with what little "bits" of evidents are floating out there OR its gotten incredibly lucky with what little bits of evidence seem to point towards some of its characters EVEN some of its more outlandish stuff like Geno being paired with Mallow (no one was guessing that but nintendo mentions both) OR guessing Sora who should make a leak more fake because the rights to the character need to be negotiated between nintendo/square/and disney so it seems impossible BUT nope now zero is suddenly involved in KH3 for some reason.

I'm just saying its either some odd coincidences, true, or the guy dug up what little there is that could be seen as evidence and made a very smart fake leak.

 

[Nekoo]

Nothing really smash news wise though with this leak if it's true. That whole 3rd party thing with Vergeben looks like a bust too unless I'm missing something.

To quote the anon who do the compilation pictures and got into contact with Vergeben.

and REMEMBER
you need to get someone to leak the show floor and the 3rd party switch title literally nobody publicly leaked with evidence
I will indicate that true or false once its shown and dasvergeben will safely coming out about without getting the source in trouble.
and this will affect the main leak
the riddle is currently still investigated even by vergeben who's keeping an eye after he got news about Snake

 

[Arcadenik]

Sure, what people talk the most about are those rumor from Vergeben and some shady Imgur link-
DasVergeben is a leaker who have a good enough track record of being right on other games in the past, while being wrong in somes.

Also as a bonus, here, take the daily 4chan rumors of the days, that are almost all starting to piggyback Vergeben now lmao.

I like the leaks/rumors that say Captain Toad and Decidueye are in.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I think it's safe to say we're getting that Star Fox racing game revealed at E3.

 

[Garteam]

Guys, check this out

https://twitter.com/NGameTheCube/status/1002952093135589382

Sorry I do not know how to link twitter images to here.

The thing that sets this off as fake to me is the lack of Metroid Prime 4. The Canadian Wal-Mart leak had a placeholder spot for Prime 4. If Prime 4 is close enough to justify putting a placeholder spot for it on Wal-Mart's website, then it would absolutely have to have some gameplay at E3.

Also the R in reawakening clips through the bottom of "Fire Emblem". That's not really a confirmation of this being fake, but it is pretty unprofessional and adds some doubt to the validity of this leak.

 

[P.Kat]

It's a nice idea.

In fact, some pages ago I post and idea I have for a Micaiah trailer,

Isn't complete, but I think it at least can work with some additional details and changes.

Spoiler

We start in a calm, sunny and cheerful day, everything at peace.

With a character (I will Ike in at least this version), walking around that place, he ended up finding a place to rest for a moment it looks like some kind of forgotten fortress with some broken parts letting the sun light being visible but not annoying. Things are nice for a moment, some birds are flying around, we in particular see a orange bird around the other birds (this doesn't initially too important outside of being a non common color compared with the rest of the more white-ish birds)

During a moment the music stops slowly and, the day becomes cloudier and darker, Ike notices something is weird and looks to his sides, nothing it's happening unti he sees he is now surronded for the *insert generic Cruel Arena Enemies, if they're Miis again make them look unnatural and a bit creepy, or at least feel soulless*,

and they're approaching him... Ike maintains and steady position, try to search and blink space, but there are so many

*I don't have idea which music use for the short battle scene, maybe Time Of Action*

A light ball drops from the sky and obliterate some of the enemies, letting Ike go outside his surronded position and now having the advantage (after all is Ike), and completing the fight with the help of this mysterious magician.

Ike looks up to the position of the, someone was also here in the fortress, but in a higher ground, he sees a female figure, the camera closes up, and we see Micaiah joining the battle... but isn't done yet, Micaiah decided to go down and approach Ike, they don't have a moment to actually interact because more of this being are appearing, Ike and Micaiah join forces again to battle them, and then we go to gameplay. I think for this part the music would actually be a remix using these songs:

That's a good way to reveal her, I like the atmosphere you described and how it changes so suddenly. I think Time Of Action is good enough for a nice battle scene such as your. Also Dawn Brigade sounds like it'd work well for showing off game play. You say its not complete but it sound like you got it covered. I don't how much better you can make it. But I'm just on person

 

[cmbsfm]

Why are they making a Star Fox racing game and not a new F Zero?

 

[IronWarrior94]

On Vergeben, I just found out how he's like 50/50 in terms of reliability due to having a boatload of "sources" that can give him fake info too, but is there usually one part or aspect of his rumors that he doubles down on and believes it has a decent chance of becoming true?

 

[Nekoo]

Why are they making a Star Fox racing game and not a new F Zero?

The same reason as of why we still don't get Mother 3.
We don't know.

On Vergeben, I just found out how he's like 50/50 in terms of reliability due to having a boatload of "sources" that can give him fake info too, but is there usually one part or aspect of his rumors that he doubles down on and believes it has a decent chance of becoming true?

The Ridley part, he's like 100% sure of it.

 

[Zeox]

Why are they making a Star Fox racing game and not a new F Zero?

There is only one logical reason...

Spoiler

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Why are they making a Star Fox racing game and not a new F Zero?

My guess is that it's on account of the fact that if you said to someone "Name 6 F-Zero racers," 9 times out of 10 they would fail to. Captain Falcon has mass appeal and a few other characters are well known, but even throwaway characters from Star Fox are more well known than most F-Zero characters (the only reason I said 6 and not 5 is because the 5th one would be James McCloud).
It makes much more sense to use a better-known franchise and have Falcon be a guest.

Granted, I think it would make the most sense to just have Super Smash Racing, but that's just because I know it's the closest I'll ever get to Air Ride 2.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Actually, that's a funny one.

I think the spinoff "kamek" in Mario spinoffs is supposed to be the individual "Kamek," but since there isn't a distinction in Japanese between their names, it was mistranslated into the English generic name "magikoopa."

The fact that we are unable to tell the difference is the problem I have with Kamek lol.

 

[P.Kat]

A 3 person transforming character has proven to not work that well, let alone a 4 person one, they can keep that lol

I'm still not clear on why transformations are treated as bad, can you tell me why? Also instead of putting transformations on the Down B special why not just put it on one of the taunts would save space allowing for one more special?

 

[Sonic Poke]

Spoiler

I do not know if you have seen this video but it absolutely nails all my feelings regarding the single player experiences of SSB4. It just sucks.

Every thing feels like multi man melee/brawl which were the modes I wouldn't touch unless I wanted to unlock Falco. And Smash Tour is terrible.

I hope they bring better modes to the 1-P experience in 5mash, because to me even SSB64 was better than Sm4sh when played alone.

And I hope they bring back some of the sound effects from SSB64 and SSBM. They were so satisfying.

All I wanted:
Classic Mode from Melee
Adventure Mode from Brawl
Events from 4
Break the Targets and Board the Plataforms from 64
Orders from 4
All Star from Brawl
Boss Battles from Brawl

 

[Icedragonadam]

I could see the 7 DLC vets being revealed at E3. It would be a good marketing ploy for those who didn't get a Wii U as they could go " previous DLC characters included!". Since it's likely this was port turned expansive sequel.

 

[Chandeelure]

The fact that we are unable to tell the difference is the problem I have with Kamek lol.

Kamek needs a bandana.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I'll laugh if the Star Fox racing game rumour turned out to be false and it turned out Retro was working on another Donkey Kong game all this time.

 

[Nekoo]

I'll laugh if the Star Fox racing game rumour turned out to be false and it turned out Retro was working on another Donkey Kong game all this time.

Literally every famous leaker credibility ever in the industry destroyed into ashes lmao-

 

[Troykv]

That's a good way to reveal her, I like the atmosphere you described and how it changes so suddenly. I think Time Of Action is good enough for a nice battle scene such as your. Also Dawn Brigade sounds like it'd work well for showing off game play. You say its not complete but it sound like you got it covered. I don't how much better you can make it. But I'm just on person

Oh thanks Kat!

I think I mostly need some language fixes (I did some in the post) and other extra stuff.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I like how so many "leaks" are mentioning Geno again all of a sudden, feels like Brawl days.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I'm still not clear on why transformations are treated as bad, can you tell me why? Also instead of putting transformations on the Down B special why not just put it on one of the taunts would save space allowing for one more special?

For one, I'd imagine they're a balancing nightmare, making it so they all complement each other without being over/underpowered compared to the others has proven to be a struggle in the past. And they take so much development time essentially making multiple characters when that time could be spent on someone else.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Literally every famous leaker credibility ever in the industry destroyed into ashes lmao-

I remember Nintendo Italy teasing another Donkey Kong game through a tweet that got removed as well as Retro hiring David Wise for another (unknown) game.

 

[T-Hell]

i'm definitely leaning towards vergeben probably having real info but even he says he has multiple sources so who know which pieces are true or if they all are or what.

then the imgr leak, if you look at the stuff near the bottom of that "leak collage image" and see the stuff about geno and mallow being tweeted, sakurai using a robot figure to model something in a game hes working on that could be used for elmas mech, and the weird stuff with zero suddenly being invited to a KH3 event... I'm not saying the leaks real just that either it did its homework with what little "bits" of evidents are floating out there OR its gotten incredibly lucky with what little bits of evidence seem to point towards some of its characters EVEN some of its more outlandish stuff like Geno being paired with Mallow (no one was guessing that but nintendo mentions both) OR guessing Sora who should make a leak more fake because the rights to the character need to be negotiated between nintendo/square/and disney so it seems impossible BUT nope now zero is suddenly involved in KH3 for some reason.

I'm just saying its either some odd coincidences, true, or the guy dug up what little there is that could be seen as evidence and made a very smart fake leak.

That also depends on the dates. Nintendo's tweet about Geno & Mallow was on May the 13th. Was the riddle leak before or after that?

 

[AEMehr]

I like how so many "leaks" are mentioning Geno again all of a sudden, feels like Brawl days.

History does tend to repeat itself.

 

[92MilesPrower]

I don't care what "leaks" and rumors have the potential to be true, at least half of them are clearly fake and are pretty much garbage, and the others I'm always taking with a grain of salt. Might as well get a truckload of salt since it's now that time of year again where everyone and their dog is making up fake E3 rumors and leaks and posting them around the web. I'm not putting my trust in Vergeben if he's only been reliable 50% of the time, nor anyone else until there's actual evidence to back up any leaks to the point where they're essentially confirmed to be real. For now, I'm just sticking to my own wants for Smash Bros and not relying on something that could've been thought up in the span of 2 minutes and being believed by tons despite nothing to truly back it up.

TLDR;
I'm moving our salt shaker from the kitchen table to next to my laptop for the next 10 days because there's no true evidence that a purple space dragon is going to be fighting a guy who spent his Easter slaying vampires (Dracula was revived on Easter in CVI, look it up).

 

[Zeox]

Spoiler

I do not know if you have seen this video but it absolutely nails all my feelings regarding the single player experiences of SSB4. It just sucks.

Every thing feels like multi man melee/brawl which were the modes I wouldn't touch unless I wanted to unlock Falco. And Smash Tour is terrible.

I hope they bring better modes to the 1-P experience in 5mash, because to me even SSB64 was better than Sm4sh when played alone.

And I hope they bring back some of the sound effects from SSB64 and SSBM. They were so satisfying.

All I wanted:
Classic Mode from Melee
Adventure Mode from Brawl
Events from 4
Break the Targets and Board the Plataforms from 64
Orders from 4
All Star from Brawl
Boss Battles from Brawl

When you are a lonely loser, a thing like an story mode and a boss rush mode feel much great than balance patches for multiplayer.
this is why I liked Brawl more than Smash 4.
Just an opinion.