Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Nekoo]

I guess it's time for a really quick update on the leaks but.
The anon who's updating the Rumor pics and managed to be in contact with Vergeben said this.

reposting the vergeben+imgur riddler rumor
gonna remove the RelaxAlax tweet next time i update this pic
also, i have a request for you people.

I want a leakfag to unveiled the missing 3rd party switch that nobody leaked yet and the show floor for Nintendo E3.
because those 2 are the heavy indicators for the Vergeben leak AND will cause a chain reaction to the previous rumors on this pic.

do not ask me anything else about it. just ****ing do it.

Remember the "leaks" about some games on the show floor that multiple website decided to confirm as true? Well, it was only one part, and apparently, whatever third party game is here that we didn't see, and the Nintendo Showfloor might basically Confirm Vergeben and might do a chain reaction with the Imgur link?

 

[Pacack]

Pikachu is a bad example for your argument. As Pikachu is the mascot for the entire Pokemon brand. Pikachu is one of the characters that can without a doubt be placed under the "Icon" Umbrella.

True, Pikachu has more going for him than Kamek. I wasn't arguing that.

My point is that a character's merits cannot be dismissed solely because that character shares its name woth its species. The same could be argued for any Pokemon or for Yoshi himself.

 

[papagenos]

I guess it's time for a really quick update on the leaks but.
The anon who's updating the Rumor pics and managed to be in contact with Vergeben said this.




Remember the "leaks" about some games on the show floor that multiple website decided to confirm as true? Well, it was only one part, and apparently, whatever third party game is here that we didn't see, and the Nintendo Showfloor might basically Confirm Vergeben and might do a chain reaction with the Imgur link?

Oh snap, well i hope someone who has that shows the rest of it, kingdom hearts 3 on switch?

 

[CrusherMania1592]

If Waluigi ever made a Final Smash,

have him use a Frenzy Plant concept except the Pirahnas being summoned by his rose

 

[Deleted member]

PSA for all Anti-leak folks out there:

TL;DR:

Nintendo's E3/Smash marketing materials are expected to be delivered to the Staples Center tomorrow. Leaks could happen as soon as Sunday. The Internet is about to become a very slippery slope for the next two weeks. Stay frosty.

Where’d you get this?

 

[MBRedboy31]

This is why.

Given Kamek and Magikoopa are much or less the same, his chances are extremely poor.

Yarn Yoshi seems as the only possible Yoshi newcomer to me.

R.O.B. was both a common enemy and a playable character in Brawl... while I don’t rate Kamek’s chances as especially high, I’m not sure if that sort of thing is necessarily an issue if we have precedent (plus besides, the Magikoopa enemy could just not return.)

 

[Diddy Kong]

The day Smash bros add Babies as playable character will be the day I give up hope in the series as a whole.

I mean, that's a past role, not a current one.

Even then, Kamek is clearly shown to be a separate character from generic Magikoopas even in Japan, where their names are the same. He has his own characterization and motives, particularly in the Yoshi franchise, where this particular Magikoopa, called Kamek here, is essentially Bowser's foster parent.

This doesn't discredit him any more than having multiple Pikachu discredits the Pikachu shown in Smash.

Maybe so. But I just don't think it's likely. Even Poochy seems more plausible to me. Besides that, we already have 2 Mario universe villains. Bowser Jr. could very well stand in for Baby Bowser in concept. I also really doubt Yoshi's Island will get a second character ever, much like F-Zero.

Also while we're at it... Hype levels just for fun:

Ridley: Hype: 75%
-Despite being a critic of Ridley, he'd hype me a great deal. Would seem like a closure of sorts for many people, and I'd surely try him out for fun.

Simon: Hype: 35%
-Played a little Castlevania. Simon is a cool dude, interessting playstyle. Rather not have too many 3rd party characters however.

Wolf: Hype: 85%
-Most deserving veteran to return easily. Didn't play him all too much in Brawl, but missed him greatly in Smash 4. Would've rather have Krystal however, I'll just be honest about that.

King K. Rool: Hype: 100%
-A fat and bloated 100% however. Most wanted character easily. Would also signify his return to DKC, which is what I always wanted even more than having him in Smash. Gives Smash a much needed super heavy weight newcomer, and finally another DKC character after Diddy's late arrival in Brawl.

Dixie Kong: Hype: 100%
-Everyone thought she was a shoe-in with Smash 4. Missed her ENOURMOUSLY therefore in Smash 4. Great character, DKC is still my favorite franchise ever, and she's easily as deserving as King K.Rool.

Sora: Hype: 0%
-I really don't want him in honestly. I get the appeal for the crossover effect, sort of merging Nintendo with Disney, but I simply don't like the character.

Geno/Mallow: Hype: 50%
-Geno is cool, but never used Mallow much in Super Mario RPG. Granted I didn't even finish that game. But still. Why would they be a tag team again? Seems kinda forced.

Chorus Kids: Hype: 25%
-Guess it'd be cool as a concept. Yet am not familiar with Rhytym Heaven and wouldn't know why they would be chosen in the first place.

Porky: Hype: 85%
-Am a big MOTHER fan. Porky would be hilarious.

Medusa: Hype: 30%
-She's not even the main villain? Seems forced, and Sakurai's Kid Icarus bias would show up again. Yes, it would work with a Heroes vs Villains concept, but still... Palutena semi-clone maybe? I'd hope so at least.

Mimikyu: Hype: 65%
-Mimikyute. Interessting design, backstory, and abilities. Am totally down for it.

Elma: Hype: 55%
-Despite never having played the game, Elma has a cool design and learned a great deal of her potential playstyle. Seems overpowered however, kinda a mix between Zero Suit Samus and Bayonetta without the additional effects and stuff.

Snake: Hype: 60%
-He was fun to fight against in Brawl. Missed him more than expected in Smash 4, especially since I think he's cooler than all other 3rd party characters.

Ice Climbers: Hype: 5%
-Yay the broken grab gimmick duo is back 5% only for veteran status. Might be more hyped if they are actually fixed... But I have my extreme doubt. Easily the most reasonable cut of a unique character concept in Smash ever.

Goroh: Hype: 25%
-I once wanted him. Now F-Zero is kinda dead. But hey, so is MOTHER. In terms of samurai-like characters, there's far more cooler characters to work with. For example Impa, Hyrule Warriors style, and Lyn.

Takamaru: Hype: 55%
-Anticipated his arrival in Smash 4. He wasn't included. I wasn't even all too bothered honestly. Seems like a well deserved addition however.

 

[Opossum]

Also, this is relatively out of the blue, but it came to mind while playing Alph to get the Final Smash trophy in All-star Mode.

Can we please give the yellow Pikmin something useful? All the others have some sort of benefit, but the yellows just have a high throwing curve.

How about making the yellows stronger for aerial attacks than reds in the air, but weaker on the ground? It would fit, since yellows have always been easier to throw to high places in the Pikmin games.

Honestly I think the increased throwing range is enough to set it apart, combined with its electricity immunity.

If anything Red Pikmin got the short end of the stick. Blue can't drown and has the strongest throws, White does extra damage when it latches on, Yellow has increased throw range and electricity immunity, and Purple does the most damage in Smash attacks.

Meanwhile Red pretty much only has the Fire immunity. Granted, it's the most common element on the roster, but Yellow and Blue at least have something extra beyond their elemental immunity.

 

[Nekoo]

Oh snap, well i hope someone who has that shows the rest of it, kingdom hearts 3 on switch?

Apparently it's not a KH title. Nothing new, and not a Tales of Titles.
So a third party port? I have no idea what game could it be lmao-

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I guess it's time for a really quick update on the leaks but.
The anon who's updating the Rumor pics and managed to be in contact with Vergeben said this.




Remember the "leaks" about some games on the show floor that multiple website decided to confirm as true? Well, it was only one part, and apparently, whatever third party game is here that we didn't see, and the Nintendo Showfloor might basically Confirm Vergeben and might do a chain reaction with the Imgur link?

Ok I'm totally an idiot, but what is the anon trying to say???

They know there's a third party game yet to be revealed that will confirm the leaks??? Or are they saying there might be? Super confused by their poor wording lol.

Edit: And it's not a new title??? If they're talking about Vergeben it would have to relate to Konami some way right??? Or were they speaking to the imgur leak...also why does this anon know anything lol.

 

[Nekoo]

Ok I'm totally an idiot, but what is the anon trying to say???

They know there's a third party game yet to be revealed that will confirm the leaks??? Or are they saying there might be? Super confused by their poor wording lol.

Basically, they know there an unconfirmed third party game on Nintendo's E3 floor booth, that would basically confirm Vergeben somehow and might do a chain reaction with some rumor on this pics (either confirm them, or debunks them)
It's not a Square Title
Not a Tales of Game.
Nothing new.
So a port of something?

And this anon know something because he talked to Vergeben by contacting him by PM- but they cannot say anything without risking their source-

 

[RileyXY1]

Vergeben has a rather poor track record when it comes to Nintendo stuff.

 

[Nekoo]

Vergeben has a rather poor track record when it comes to Nintendo stuff.

That's true, but it also means that with that suddent development, whatever he says might completely get debunked in the next following days before E3 if this "third party game" doesn't exist.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

If Waluigi ever made a Final Smash,

have him use a Frenzy Plant concept except the Pirahnas being summoned by his rose

Waluigi is too good and sexy for a final smash

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Basically, they know there an unconfirmed third party game on Nintendo's E3 floor booth, that would basically confirm Vergeben somehow and might do a chain reaction with some rumor on this pics (either confirm them, or debunks them)
It's not a Square Title
Not a Tales of Game.
Nothing new.
So a port of something?

And this anon know something because he talked to Vergeben by contacting him by PM- but they cannot say anything without risking their source-

Well just humoring rumors for the sake of speculation...are there any recent Konami games or Metal Gear, Castlevania games that could get ported? Idk **** about third party games XD

Or maybe an older KH game?...

I don't see how any third party reveals would debunk any rumors...

Edit: or maybe Super Mario RPG? Is that considered third party though?...

 

[FlareHabanero]

Can't wait for that total liar to be busted and people get mad over following a blatantly wrong rumor.

 

[StrangeMann]

All this leak discussion, and I'm just thinking: What's ganondorf going to look like in this game?
Zelda and link will probably both be updated visually to reflect their BOTW forms, but what about ganondorf? Calamity Ganon's upper humanoid torso is visible in his boss fight, but he has not lower torso (it's mechanical in nature in game). Will the smash bros ganondorf be based upon this design (except having a lower torso), or will it be the Twilight princess design still? What about shiek (who has Twilight princess concept art used for her design in smash 4 and brawl) ?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Any rumor is false when there's no Impa.

Seriously though, we need her as a Zelda newcomer. Anything else that's workable is either another Link, Zelda or Ganon, or a one-off.

 

[MBRedboy31]

*picture of Pichu*

To be pedantic, there’s no way to know if the Pichu is actually a baby. While some species like Pichu are considered to be “baby Pokémon,” as evolution doesn’t logically follow their actual ages, the Pichu could theoretically be much, much older than most of the other playable Pokémon, including the playable Pikachu.

 

[Diddy Kong]

All this leak discussion, and I'm just thinking: What's ganondorf going to look like in this game?
Zelda and link will probably both be updated visually to reflect their BOTW forms, but what about ganondorf? Calamity Ganon's upper humanoid torso is visible in his boss fight, but he has not lower torso (it's mechanical in nature in game). Will the smash bros ganondorf be based upon this design (except having a lower torso), or will it be the Twilight princess design still? What about shiek (who has Twilight princess concept art used for her design in smash 4 and brawl) ?

I hope Sheik will remain her current design. But it's quite possible to base her on Breath of the Wild.

Ganondorf is more tricky. I hope he'll be based on Hyrule Warriors. Which would then also, naturally, allow Impa to be added. Because why the hell not?

 

[Nekoo]

Can't wait for that total liar to be busted and people get mad over following a blatantly wrong rumor.

>Getting mad over something that is literally a rumor
That would be dumb in all honestly, me, I just enjoy the ride until it crash against a wall and take another one until reaching the final destination- that's what I love for smash speculation.
But knowing that this rumor can be debunked in the following day is something nice to know nonetheless

 

[IntelliHeath1]

Soon. So Soon.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

To be pedantic, there’s no way to know if the Pichu is actually a baby. While some species like Pichu are considered to be “baby Pokémon,” as evolution doesn’t logically follow their actual ages, the Pichu could theoretically be much, much older than most of the other playable Pokémon, including the playable Pikachu.

It can feel odd how the Pokemon series portrays the age of certain Pokemon. Even the anime has shown us an elderly Treecko, who's clearly much older than Ash's Treecko, who would later become a Grovyle, followed by a Sceptile.

 

[SvartWolf]

well, a whole new castlevania certainly would confirm vergeben leaks ( i mean aside grimoire of souls :/) but i wouldnt put my beans on it BTW, guess who got its backer Bloodstained Curse of the Moon for switch code yesterday? :D im currently at the final level :3

Ironically if that game have proved something is that there is market for a new castlevania on the switch. At this point i would be happy with a castlevania collection akin to mega man collection though ...

 

[Zippo]

Where’d you get this?

From Resetera member Rösti, he's very knowledgeable about this kind of stuff.

 

[.Shìkì]

Vergeben has a rather poor track record when it comes to Nintendo stuff.

But his track record with Bandai-Namco stuff is really good, and from what we know they are doing this Smash, aswell as Metroid Prime 4, so it could go either way easily. 10 more days...

 

[Metal Shop X]

I am the only one here who is excited for the new Smash for, of all things to be excited for, new emotes for this forum?


Seriously, I hope alot of characters have renders that make their face emote worthy, like say, or .

 

[Nekoo]

I am the only one here who is excited for the new Smash for, of all things to be excited for, new emotes for this forum?


Seriously, I hope alot of characters have renders that make their face emote worthy, like say, or .

Oh right- Let's go :5Ridley:

....

God damnit.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Oh right- Let's go :5Ridley:

....

God damnit.

I remember that there was an unofficial Ridley emote around this forum.

But yeah, an official one will be nice. :SwitchRidley:

 

[92MilesPrower]

How about a more controversial discussion?

Why aren't we considering Kamek more seriously? He's the main villain of the Yoshi franchise, he's Bowser's personal steward, he has tons of potential with his magic, he is highly recognized, and he has made recent appearances in Yoshi's Wooly World, Yoshi's New Island, and Yoshi and Poochy's Wooly World. He's got a lot going for him, especially given the timing of the roster selection. What is it about him that makes him unlikely?

The thing is, compared to a lot of other characters already in Smash and that are potential newcomers, Kamek isn't much of an "all-star" character compared to others, and he doesn't have popularity like some other characters as well. For example, there's Ridley, who's in like every Metroid game as essentially the main villain of the franchise, and fans constantly ask for him to be playable in Smash. On the other hand, Rosalina got in because of her popularity with fans, as well as the hugely successful Mario Galaxy games, which she represents (she's also playable in a couple of main series games, unless it's just 3D World and I'm just dumb). I don't think Kamek is easily recognizable by casual fans anyways as a character other than just a generic Magikoopa, he doesn't really stand out too much compared to, say, Captain Toad, who has a variety of differences from other Toads, appearance and ability-wise.

As much as I'd like to see him in Smash someday, he definitely should make a name for himself outside of being just Bowser's advisor/nanny/version of Toadsworth, he doesn't really stand out at the moment. On a side note, I still don't get why he hasn't been playable in Mario Kart yet, apparently Baby and Metal variants take priority.

 

[Pokechu]

Any rumor is false when there's no Impa.

Seriously though, we need her as a Zelda newcomer. Anything else that's workable is either another Link, Zelda or Ganon, or a one-off.

Hey.

Tingle. :^(

honestly though i'd love for tingle to be in

though i feel like impa may not work because she's all over the place, in some games she can actually fight while in other games she's an old lady, i feel like she's not very consistent. but idk

 

[papagenos]

>Getting mad over something that is literally a rumor
That would be dumb in all honestly, me, I just enjoy the ride until it crash against a wall and take another one until reaching the final destination- that's what I love for smash speculation.
But knowing that this rumor can be debunked in the following day is something nice to know nonetheless

This.

I just enjoy the ride and the speculation, the fun of rumors/leaks is in the hunt for clues because we DO get real leaks so its always fun disproving or weighing all the evidence. If we didn't do that than a leak would come out and maybe get confirmed subtley with a piece of info that is only tangentially related to it but we'd miss it cause we are writing them off as fake without any true deconfirmation. Its just fun and can end in "gold", knowing something about the next game, of course theres pros and cons to finding out stuff early but I cant help myself but want to hunt for it.

 

[Zippo]

I find it very funny that both Resetera and Smashboards are going into maintenance in the same weekend.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

though i feel like impa may not work because she's all over the place, in some games she can actually fight while in other games she's an old lady, i feel like she's not very consistent. but idk

I mean in some games Ganon is a giant pig demon and sometimes he's a gerudo man, Zelda's just weird like that, Impa as a whole is still important to the series and young impa has enough appearances

 

[RileyXY1]

But his track record with Bandai-Namco stuff is really good, and from what we know they are doing this Smash, aswell as Metroid Prime 4, so it could go either way easily. 10 more days...

Vergeben has claimed that the 2018 Pokemon game is Gen 8 (when that is not the case) and he also said that they will show off Metroid Prime 4 footage in January and that didn't happen. He also said that Square Enix is making TWEWO 2 when they are actually making a rerelease of the first TWEWO.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

First off, directors don't have total control over a project like people think they do. It's very possible for a higher up like the president or an executive to force changes based on what they think is a better option. Which is why you hear stories of games, movies, comics, etc. being forced to change against the creators will, and why executives have a poor reputation with content creators. Even Nintendo has been guilty of this on the occasion.

Second, Sakurai himself is a freelance designer, not an employee at Nintendo. Like with any outside party, Nintendo needs to approve on whatever happens with the project. This becomes more complicated when you also factor in companies that have co-ownership of IPs like Kirby, Fire Emblem, and Xenoblade, and even more so with parties that are completely out of Nintendo's control like SEGA, Konami, Capcom, and Square Enix. This is likely why each Smash game has subtle oddities in it, like why specific characters have abnormally restrictive alternative costumes.

Even though Sakurai doesn't have 100% control when it comes to Smash in general, the Nintendo higher-ups have never forced Sakurai to add or remove a Nintendo character. I mean, they even approved of a third-party character like Snake in Brawl despite initial skepticism with the late Iwata even stating he felt Snake was a good fit.

Iwata: Everyone understood for the most part since that’s the nature of Smash Bros. However, there were debates about where to draw the line. For the most part though, it was readily solved since we were comfortable that you were in charge for the selection. I myself thought it was best to make the game as inclusive and entertaining as possible since festive opportunities like Smash Bros. come along only once in a great while.

Sakurai: I’m glad everyone felt they could trust me. For my part, I have no regrets about incorporating Snake and Sonic into the game and I think their inclusion was well worthwhile.

Iwata: Now that you’ve put them in the game, can you tell me what they’re like?

Sakurai: Hmm, what should I say? I think they’re solid characters with a lot of potential.

Iwata: Because they’re non-Nintendo characters?

Sakurai: Right. They’ve certainly have a distinct feel to them. It’s not that I was consciously trying to design Nintendo and non-Nintendo characters, but ultimately, I feel they’re molded differently than the other characters as far as the laws of Smash Bros. are concerned.

Iwata: I was impressed with the end results. They blend in as if they’ve always been there yet also possess a fresh, new aura.

Sakurai
Thank you. I think that once you play these characters and learn their moves, you’ll realize how they differ from other characters. Ultimately, they account for characteristics that can’t be obtained simply by increasing the number of Nintendo characters. I was even able to go all-out with their showy performances.

Heck even the studios that co-owns Nintendo IPs (with the exception of TPCi) don't push Sakurai to add a character if this interview with the head of Monolith Soft is any indication.

On the discussions of getting Shulk into Smash Bros. and the bathing suit skin idea…

Mr. Takahashi: New characters for Super Smash Bros. are determined by Mr. [Masahiro] Sakurai. Nintendo had released several new RPG games around 2010, but it sounds like Xenoblade Chronicles stuck out to him in particular due to its high quality and popularity. He also had the idea that Monado Arts can be used to change Shulk’s nature in battles, allowing him to add new and completely different elements to the character that other fighters don’t have. The Shulk bathing-suit skin was also an idea from Mr. Sakurai.

The whole point I'm trying to make is that Sakurai is a respected veteran of the video game industry and the roster decisions for Smash is far less based on what Nintendo is pushing and more what Sakurai think makes a compelling character. Since an argument I have seen in favour of a Switch-era character like Rex is that Monolith Soft would go out of their way to push for him, the above interview about Monolith Soft is pretty relevant (not to say characters like Rex and Spring Man have no chance, just that Nintendo pushing their titles doesn't mean they'll be pushed for Smash by Nintendo).

 

[Bowserlick]

I am hyping myself up for Beedle from Hyrule.

Beedle wears a large backpack shaped like a rhino beetle complete with peddles that swing down when the merchant jumps (or maybe as an Up B) allowing him to bicycle in the air.

He is the kind of Hyrule zaniness we need to counter the seriousness from the Triforce wielders. And possibly easier to stomach than Tingle.

 

[Darkraid]

Guys, check this out

https://twitter.com/NGameTheCube/status/1002952093135589382

Sorry I do not know how to link twitter images to here.

 

[Pokechu]

I mean in some games Ganon is a giant pig demon and sometimes he's a gerudo man, Zelda's just weird like that, Impa as a whole is still important to the series and young impa has enough appearances

Ganon is the main villain though so it'd be silly to not have him.

I'm not too knowledgeable of Zelda but I think more often than not Impa's an old lady. There's more games where she's old and a nursemaid than there are where she's young.

That's why I think Tingle genuinely has more of a shot than her, not to mention how aside from appearing in the main Zelda games he also has his own spinoffs.

Guys, check this out

https://twitter.com/NGameTheCube/status/1002952093135589382

Sorry I do not know how to link twitter images to here.

fire emblem reawakening lol if this is true im gonna laugh, for some reason i find this really funny

but how come fire emblem has its title, like its updated title on the page (not just Fire Emblem) but Smash Bros is still just "Smash Bros"??

 

[SirCamp]

I am hyping myself up for Beedle from Hyrule.

Beedle wears a large backpack shaped like a rhino beetle complete with peddles that swing down when the merchant jumps (or maybe as an Up B) allowing him to bicycle in the air.

He is the kind of Hyrule zaniness we need to counter the seriousness from the Triforce wielders. And possibly easier to stomach than Tingle.

I prefer Tingle myself (not to harp on the subject lol), but if Beedle got in instead I could handle that as well. Either way we definitely need another Zelda character. Or two. lol