Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Cosmic77]

Agreed. Had Corrin been saved for Smash Switch and not put in Smash 4 at all, he wouldn't have been as hated as he is right now.

Fixed it for you.

 

[Jetsurge]

I must admit, the leaked characters are starting to grow on me too. If the leak is real, then I am disappointed Toad still didn't get in Smash despite finally getting his own game in 20 years and said game getting ported to 3DS and Switch. It's like nothing Toad does is good enough for the Smash Gatekeeper (Sakurai).

Play as Peach and use her neutral special

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Quick, add text before the evil masters warn you!

Also should I stay on guard tomorrow for leaks? Or it's probably nothing?

 

[Skyblade12]

People are inherently biased since we have out own perspectives. Even Sakurai is too, which is why I personally don't take his words as gospel like others do (that and other facts). So when people are getting upset about his perspective, it's no different from going on Twitter and telling someone they should "eat **** and die" for drawing fanart of a shipping you don't like.


Believe it or not, but I can actually buy into third parties being a larger priority. There's already a progression between Brawl and Wii U/3DS where outside IPs are emphasized a lot more. In Brawl it was only two, Metal Gear and Sonic, while in the Wii U/3DS installment that tripled if only counting the playable characters. If counting in general (trophies, music, Mii costumes, etc), there are at least 28 more IPs referenced in some type of way.

What I can't buy is stuff like Simon Belmont and Sora, purely from a copyright standpoint. The latter moreso, due to how infamous Disney is when it comes to controlling their IPs, and the fact Disney franchises are a major part of Kingdom Hearts, to the point where characters like Mickey, Goofy, and Donald are major characters. Sorting all that out sounds like a nightmare. Not to mention the guys are Square Enix are infamous for picky themselves; Just getting Cloud was apparently a "miracle". It's one of those double whammy situations.

As for the new stuff like Elma and Mimikyu, while people say it does match up with how rosters are made based on timing, I also have doubts on that simply because of Nintendo's stance on the Wii U. It's pretty blatant that Nintendo wants to pretend the Wii U never happened, going so far as to delete the Wii U section on their official website as soon as the Nintendo Switch was released, porting the more notable Wii U titles on the Nintendo Switch, and ignoring the controversial games like Tokyo Mirage Sessions and Paper Mario Color Splash. Which is why I would not be surprised if the developers purposely looked into future games for more opportunities, at least for the games being released in the Switch's first year.

Note that I'm not dissing characters like Elma and Mimikyu, but from a marketing standpoint people are missing a pretty major component in the grand scheme of things.

Nintendo's stance is not necessarily Sakurai's, and he's the one directing the game. There's never been a sign that Nintendo has been heavy handed in directing him who to include.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

People are inherently biased since we have out own perspectives. Even Sakurai is too, which is why I personally don't take his words as gospel like others do (that and other facts). So when people are getting upset about his perspective, it's no different from going on Twitter and telling someone they should "eat **** and die" for drawing fanart of a shipping you don't like.


Believe it or not, but I can actually buy into third parties being a larger priority. There's already a progression between Brawl and Wii U/3DS where outside IPs are emphasized a lot more. In Brawl it was only two, Metal Gear and Sonic, while in the Wii U/3DS installment that tripled if only counting the playable characters. If counting in general (trophies, music, Mii costumes, etc), there are at least 28 more IPs referenced in some type of way.

What I can't buy is stuff like Simon Belmont and Sora, purely from a copyright standpoint. The latter moreso, due to how infamous Disney is when it comes to controlling their IPs, and the fact Disney franchises are a major part of Kingdom Hearts, to the point where characters like Mickey, Goofy, and Donald are major characters. Sorting all that out sounds like a nightmare. Not to mention the guys are Square Enix are infamous for picky themselves; Just getting Cloud was apparently a "miracle". It's one of those double whammy situations.

As for the new stuff like Elma and Mimikyu, while people say it does match up with how rosters are made based on timing, I also have doubts on that simply because of Nintendo's stance on the Wii U. It's pretty blatant that Nintendo wants to pretend the Wii U never happened, going so far as to delete the Wii U section on their official website as soon as the Nintendo Switch was released, porting the more notable Wii U titles on the Nintendo Switch, and ignoring the controversial games like Tokyo Mirage Sessions and Paper Mario Color Splash. Which is why I would not be surprised if the developers purposely looked into future games for more opportunities, at least for the games being released in the Switch's first year.

Note that I'm not dissing characters like Elma and Mimikyu, but from a marketing standpoint people are missing a pretty major component in the grand scheme of things.

Be careful about assuming Nintendo's agenda and Sakurai's agenda are one and the same. The GameCube wasn't exactly that successful especially in comparison to the Wii and we still got more characters debuting from the former console than the latter in Brawl.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Spoiler

"Sora: 0% (>)" Hmm lemme guess, you didn't like the Death Battle of Sora v's Pit very much did you (even though I liked the outcome, I was still conflicted and sad cause Pit is one my favorite characters) Haha

Lyn/Celica/Anna: 9001% there fixed that for you
Definitely loving the love for Impa.

I think this one of the best prediction sheets so far

That fix was needed for the Fire Emblem Waifu Warriors, Sora did have a 60% chance in joining due to Disney...but my boy Pit definitely brings him down (needed more Sacred Treasures and Palutena talk...also I did like the battle itself, but not the victor. Nothing will ever top Goomba vs Koopa Troopa). The love for Impa needs to be strong.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Quick, add text before the evil masters warn you!

Also should I stay on guard tomorrow for leaks? Or it's probably nothing?

In case leaks actually happen this warning is for everybody

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Fixed it for you.

Heh, that's totally true.

 

[Sonic Poke]

Nothing will ever be more disappointing than Corrin

I was not disappointed by Corrin's addition. I was actually quite hyped because he looked very unique.

 

[KingBroly]

More disappointing than Corrin: Ridley's little chicken form from Other M. Only. No evolution. No toggle. Just...that.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Congratulations!

Now I wish this was the show’s actual/only ending

 

[Pokechu]

Play as Peach and use her neutral special

Yes! Great! Now I can finally play as Toad in Smash. Because I'm definitely not picking Peach on the roster. And then just spamming a neutral special. How smart! I just never would have thought to do this. I never realized, Toad already has been playable! Because appearing in a neutral special is the exact same as having a whole moveset dedicated to you. Thank you for explaining this to me.

Y'all think y'all so clever but if y'all were in our shoes y'all would be mad, I don't see why y'all think saying that is so funny. Because it isn't and it doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

 

[Jetsurge]

Yes! Great! Now I can finally play as Toad in Smash. Because I'm definitely not picking Peach on the roster. And then just spamming a neutral special. How smart! I just never would have thought to do this. I never realized, Toad already has been playable! Because appearing in a neutral special is the exact same as having a whole moveset dedicated to you. Thank you for explaining this to me.

Y'all think y'all so clever but if y'all were in our shoes y'all would be mad, I don't see why y'all think saying that is so funny. Because it isn't and it doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

I was joking hence the

 

[Cosmic77]

Corrin is an addition I'll never quite understand. I know the development team really wanted to add him as the new relevant character, but did they ever think people might not like Corrin taking away one of the coveted DLC spots?

I don't know what went down, but I really wish Sakurai would've coaxed them into adding a relevant character people actually requested. Not saying it had to be Inklings, but I saw far more requests for Chibi Robo, Wonder Red, Dixie, Captain Toad, and Impa than I ever saw with Corrin.

 

[P.Kat]

Here's a topic:
What song do you want to be playing and remixed during your most wanted character's reveal trailer?
Here are a few songs I want played for a Reimu reveal even though she's never getting in.

I can't decide on one, lol.

Spoiler: PoDD Reimu's Theme: Mystic Oriental Love Consultation

Spoiler: IN Reimu's Theme: Maiden's Capriccio ~ Dream Battle

Spoiler: ULiL Reimu's Theme: Dichromatic Lotus Butterfly ~ Red and White

Spoiler: SoEW Stage 1 Theme: Hakurei ~ Eastern Wind

Hmm, lets see well this would be Lyn's theme

Spoiler: How My Character Would Appear

Out on the Plains, the wind blew with ominous uncertainty as the various warriors Fire Emblem would be fighting Ganondorf. Most would be injured yet not out of the fight. Roy with a bit of energy to spare, and determined to protect his comrades, Roy would fight one on one with The King of Evil himself in order to give his friends a chance to catch their second wind.

But this would be against their wishes.

Ganondorf was too strong for the brave Young Lion to face alone and unfortunately Ganondorf's would catch him

By the neck.

But, just as the corrosive darkness was about emanate from Ganondorf's hand and spread to Roy's throat, a powerful gust of wind nearly knock him off his feet, sliding him back. Catching his footing, he soon noticed the lack of weight in his right hand. "where's that red haired whelp" he wondered but as he moved to search for the young man, he found himself clutching his arm and sides in pain.

Him?

In pain?

Unheard of!

And yet three, no, five, nay seven bladed strikes marred his armor with deep gashes to his right arm, ribs, and right leg

"Who dares!? Who dares!?" He shouted his voice echoing across the Plains. He turned behind him, his teeth clench tightly in annoyance and pain staring down the warrior who harmed him. "Are you alright?" a warm gentle voice asked. Roy still shaken up and in a coughing fit, manage to nod towards the kind voice.

He looked up to see A lady with green hair, placing her sword in its sheath with a click. He could also see his rest friends rising to there feet their weapons in hand.

"My name is Lyn." She introduces herself while looking at everyone, she then looks towards Ganondorf with quiet fury. Ganondorf gaining back composure stands up straight, and sturdy with no sign of weakness despite the various wounds he suffered. But one could see a tinge of uncertainty reflected in his glaring dark yellow eyes. "Allow me to take care of this." Lyn suggested.

And like that a new wind blows, one that now was in the favor of our heroes.

Then this song would play.

I think Lyn's theme it should be x1.25 faster maybe.

Well embarrassing attempts of storytelling aside, this bring up a good question.

How would you imagine your favorite character appearing in a cutscene for their reveal trailer?

 

[Pacack]

I agree with you on Kamek, but why doesn't the Yoshi series NEED another representative?

Haha, fair enough.

Also, reminder to everyone:

Rumors =/= leaks

Don't give rumors the legitimacy of leak status too quickly.

 

[Jumpinjahosafa]

Just wanted to add:

Although I have a hard time believing rumors confirming characters like Ridley, Snake, etc, I have an even harder time believing rumors deconfirming those characters.

E3 isn't the place for deconfirmations, it's an immediate red flag to me if I see anything like that.

 

[Arcadenik]

Play as Peach and use her neutral special

No. Not the same thing. I want to play as Toad, not summon Toad.

 

[Zeox]

Regular Toad or Captain Toad?

 

[Nekoo]

Y'all think y'all so clever but if y'all were in our shoes y'all would be mad, I don't see why y'all think saying that is so funny. Because it isn't and it doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

If you're so invested on a fictional character getting in a video game and get mad for one or two joke, I believe you need to step back a little from the internet.
Wanna Joke on something? My most wanted character is Ray- so you're free to say that he's still in the game as an assist trophy! I just have to put the item in max and hope to get him!

I wouldn't be mad, because nonetheless, having my favorite character not playable shouldn't ruin the fun, like no one should buy/hate a game for one character.

Otherwise, my apology for hurting your feeling, but people should really stop getting invested like that, imagine if Ridley fan got mad everytime we says "Ridley is too big" unironically enough, they're the most chill fanbase around, and don't hesitate to laugh about their own luck.

No. Not the same thing. I want to play as Toad, not summon Toad.

Well, hopefully it'll happen, who knows at this point- anyway, sorry for doing that joke if it hurted you.

Just wanted to add:

Although I have a hard time believing rumors confirming characters like Ridley, Snake, etc, I have an even harder time believing rumors deconfirming those characters.

E3 isn't the place for deconfirmations, it's an immediate red flag to me if I see anything like that.

This 100%
E3 is usually place for confirmations, the only things it will and can deconfirm for me is the Imgur leak, mostly because there so many odds choice here that it's either a break or pass lmao.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Talking about Corrin. I think that it was a really bad strategy to announce him in the FINAL DIRECT for Smash 4.

Honesly it Should have been Corrin announced with the show announcement instead of Cloud.
Then Bayonetta during the direct.
End With Cloud as the surprise character at the end of it.


Sit back and enjoy the world burn and becomes crazy.

This would've been so perfect.

People would still complain about Corrin for sure, but with the announcement of there being more Smash news on the next month, some of the distate people got for her would've been faded out by the hype of potentially getting more news.

Then having Cloud revealed at the final Smash Direct would've instantly made people who weren't happy with Bayonetta explode with hype.

Having Cloud as the last confirmed character would've just been a fantastical way to end the game's announcement. Ending with what seemed impossible.

 

[Jetsurge]

inb4 this happens:
Sakurai - "Stages return from Smash 4" - Shows Pyrosphere and Ridley
Sakurai - "Mii fighters return" - Shows mii fighter wearing the K. Rool costume

 

[Pacack]

Genuine question.

Why are we still giving the imgur rumor our attention when Vergeben, the more reliable of the two sources, implied that said rumor was just piggybacking off of his?

 

[YoshiandToad]

Regular Toad or Captain Toad?

This man is asking the tough questions.

Honestly these days I'm leaning more towards Captain, but regular Toad would easily be my number one newcomer if he got in.

It's unfortunate it looks like we're getting Geno+Mallow instead of Toad again though.

Which honestly to me is the equivalent of adding Ribbon over Bandana Waddle Dee. Hopefully they'll be fun at least.

 

[Zeox]

inb4 this happens:
Sakurai - "Stages return from Smash 4" - Shows Pyrosphere and Ridley
Sakurai - "Mii fighters return" - Shows mii fighter wearing the K. Rool costume

Thanks Sakurai, that's exactly what everyone wanted.

 

[Pokechu]

If you're so invested on a fictional character getting in a video game and get mad for one or two joke, I believe you need to step back a little from the internet.
Wanna Joke on something? My most wanted character is Ray- so you're free to say that he's still in the game as an assist trophy! I just have to put the item in max and hope to get him!

I wouldn't be mad, because nonetheless, having my favorite character not playable shouldn't ruin the fun, like no one should buy/hate a game for one character.

Otherwise, my apology for hurting your feeling, but people should really stop getting invested like that, imagine if Ridley fan got mad everytime we says "Ridley is too big" unironically enough, they're the most chill fanbase around, and don't hesitate to laugh about their own luck.

No, you're fine, I'm not hurt and I honestly don't care much if Toad makes it in or not. It's just unnecessary to quote posts about Toad and joke about him being a move. Yeah, he's been one since Melee. So 17 years ago? We know he's a move. The joke's been done to death and with Captain Toad about and how Toad is a species it never made sense in the first place, so seeing not one but two people make this joke (which to be honest doesn't seem like a funny joke to me, it's just reminding a fanbase how their favorite character isn't playable) boggles my mind.

 

[Pacack]

This man is asking the tough questions.

Honestly these days I'm leaning more towards Captain, but regular Toad would easily be my number one newcomer if he got in.

It's unfortunate it looks like we're getting Geno+Mallow instead of Toad again though.

Which honestly to me is the equivalent of adding Ribbon over Bandana Waddle Dee. Hopefully they'll be fun at least.

I wouldn't give this rumor so much credibility. It was posted with no context in an attention seeking manner after another more legitimate rumor claimed some similar things.

I'm personally still expecting Captain Toad. He makes too much sense at this point.

 

[Nekoo]

Genuine question.

Why are we still giving the imgur rumor our attention when Vergeben, the more reliable of the two sources, implied that said rumor was just piggybacking off of his?

It was before he got the source saying that Snake was back, if you looked my previous post, the anon tracking the leak and rumors on 4chan managed to get in a PM conversation with him and...

the "third source" is something he wants to keep to himself and little amount of people as much, since the information will expose the source too much unless he keeps it ultra vague
also he was able to "point out" some stuff he gotten right in the past and say his opinion about the riddle leak. he doubted it until he got the info on Snake as of late so he's going to keep an eye for it

He's now neutral about it, and actually decided to keep an eye for it.

 

[WaddleMatt]

Just wondering, what are some Discord channels I should go to by tomorrow for this possible leak thing?

I am creating a discord server specifically for e3 and hopefully I can maintain it afterwards. I have a thread for it here that you can find. I am looking for more people to be interested in joining.

Also, I'm late. What is this leak tomorrow or whatever that people are talking about?

 

[CannonStreak]

I am creating a discord server specifically for e3 and hopefully I can maintain it afterwards. I have a thread for it here that you can find. I am looking for more people to be interested in joining.

Also, I'm late. What is this leak tomorrow or whatever that people are talking about?

So we can talk about the leak there, I assume? By the way, the leak thing is this.

PSA for all Anti-leak folks out there:

TL;DR:

Nintendo's E3/Smash marketing materials are expected to be delivered to the Staples Center tomorrow. Leaks could happen as soon as Sunday. The Internet is about to become a very slippery slope for the next two weeks. Stay frosty.

 

[P.Kat]

GUYS GUESS WHAT

I'M GOING TO E3!

GUESS WHAT ELSE?

...I ONLY REGISTERED TODAY AND YOU HAD TO REGISTER BY YESTERDAY IN ORDER TO PLAY SMASH!

.....

Oh well, this is still so incredibly exciting for me, not like Smash is the only game I'm insanely hyped up for!

Amazing, have tons fun alright?

 

[Pacack]

It was before he got the source saying that Snake was back, if you looked my previous post, an anon managed to get in a PM conversation with him and...



He's now neutral about it, and actually decided to keep an eye for it.

Still, what reason do we have to treat it as anything more than a piggybacking fake? The imgur rumor has no credibility behind it. I could just as easily do the exact same thing and claim to have insider info, and that would have as much credibility as this has.

 

[Nekoo]

Still, what reason do we have to treat it as anything more than a piggybacking fake?

Because, unlike the current piggybacking fake/leaks, daily leaks it didn't originate from 4chan, but spawned at random on reddit (not saying it's better, just odd knowing that normally 4chan is the way to go)
It didn't said it had any source
Didn't said the classic Work at nintendo/ Uncle/ Im a ninja/ Sakurai's slave
Hide an Imgur link in a post, before the Mods quickly delete his post
It didn't mentioned Vergeben at all, unlike other obvious fake who are like "OH YEAH VERGEBEN IS TRUE AND ASHLEY AND MISTER T ARE IN TOO!"
And got Snake right, before Vergeben got his source saying Snake was in. While it can be a COINCIDENCE, people weren't expecting snake at all, YES it is obvious as an afterthough, but most people were actually thinking we wouldn't get Snake because of the Konami/Kojima thing and instead get Bomberman if there was a second rep.

And more importantly.

Why not? Just fun to talk the possibility of things being true- If it's false, what's the harm behind it?

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Fixed it for you.

to be fair, maybe smash switch wasn't planned back then, who knows really

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Corrin is an addition I'll never quite understand. I know the development team really wanted to add him as the new relevant character, but did they ever think people might not like Corrin taking away one of the coveted DLC spots?

I don't know what went down, but I really wish Sakurai would've coaxed them into adding a relevant character people actually requested. Not saying it had to be Inklings, but I saw far more requests for Chibi Robo, Wonder Red, Dixie, Captain Toad, and Impa than I ever saw with Corrin.

All that went down was Sakurai wanting to promote Fates...plus...(Joy-Con Boyz/Girlz Leader)

Having Cloud as the last confirmed character would've just been a fantastical way to end the game's announcement. Ending with what seemed impossible.

I kinda prefer Bayonetta being the last person due to the ballot and her being like a Nintendo step child getting to close out the biggest event in Nintendo history. Cloud opening the show instead of Corrin might’ve been good, but don’t think people not named Etika could handle screaming and hyping ULTRA HARD in one show...also I don’t think we would’ve had the greatest reaction to Bayonetta joining Smash (the Etika one)...and Bayo seemed even more unlikely than Cloud due to a “younger” age, not being as popular, being WAY TOO SEXY FOR SMASH...besidesof course, and other reasons ignoring her games M Rating.

 

[Pacack]

Because, unlike the current piggybacking fake/leaks, daily leaks it didn't originate from 4chan, but spawned at random on reddit (not saying it's better, just odd knowing that normally 4chan is the way to go)
It didn't said it had any source
Didn't said the classic Work at nintendo/ Uncle/ Im a ninja/ Sakurai's slave
Hide an Imgur link in a post, before the Mods quickly delete his post
It didn't mentioned Vergeben at all, unlike other obvious fake who are like "OH YEAH VERGEBEN IS TRUE AND ASHLEY AND MISTER T ARE IN TOO!"
And got Snake right, before Vergeben got his source saying Snake was in. While it can be a COINCIDENCE, people weren't expecting snake at all, YES it is obvious as an afterthough, but most people were actually thinking we wouldn't get Snake because of the Konami/Kojima thing and instead get Bomberman if there was a second rep.

And more importantly.

Why not? Just fun to talk the possibility of things being true- If it's false, what's the harm behind it?

Still doesn't give the rumor credibility. I also predicted that, if Sakurai were in talks with Konami, Snake would be back. It's not hard to make that conclusion.

And the harm is evident from posts like YoshiandToad above, with people losing hope for perfectly plausible characters because we as a community are giving this rumor more attention than necessary.

 

[Arcadenik]

Regular Toad or Captain Toad?

Both. Alternate costumes exist.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Nintendo's stance is not necessarily Sakurai's, and he's the one directing the game. There's never been a sign that Nintendo has been heavy handed in directing him who to include.

Be careful about assuming Nintendo's agenda and Sakurai's agenda are one and the same. The GameCube wasn't exactly that successful especially in comparison to the Wii and we still got more characters debuting from the former console than the latter in Brawl.

First off, directors don't have total control over a project like people think they do. It's very possible for a higher up like the president or an executive to force changes based on what they think is a better option. Which is why you hear stories of games, movies, comics, etc. being forced to change against the creators will, and why executives have a poor reputation with content creators. Even Nintendo has been guilty of this on the occasion.

Second, Sakurai himself is a freelance designer, not an employee at Nintendo. Like with any outside party, Nintendo needs to approve on whatever happens with the project. This becomes more complicated when you also factor in companies that have co-ownership of IPs like Kirby, Fire Emblem, and Xenoblade, and even more so with parties that are completely out of Nintendo's control like SEGA, Konami, Capcom, and Square Enix. This is likely why each Smash game has subtle oddities in it, like why specific characters have abnormally restrictive alternative costumes.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Corrin is an addition I'll never quite understand. I know the development team really wanted to add him as the new relevant character, but did they ever think people might not like Corrin taking away one of the coveted DLC spots?

I don't know what went down, but I really wish Sakurai would've coaxed them into adding a relevant character people actually requested. Not saying it had to be Inklings, but I saw far more requests for Chibi Robo, Wonder Red, Dixie, Captain Toad, and Impa than I ever saw with Corrin.

For DLC at least Wonder red, dixie, Impa and captain toad weren't especially relevant at the time and chibi robo's game probably released too late. When it comes to super relevant characters that could be used for promotion it was between Corrin and Elma essentially. But one advantage Corrin had over Elma is that Elma would need other content like a stage and trophies since she's so far removed from the first chronicles game, while Corrin is fine since there's already substantial fire emblem content.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

The only reason we are discussing that fake rumour is because there is nothing better to discuss. Well, unless you'd rather we talk some more about Fire Emblem and Xenoblade.