Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Strider_Bond00J]

Speaking of which, why don't we all say who our most hated characters whom we eventually warmed up to? Mine is Little Mac.

Pac-Man and Bowser Jr. Didn't really care or want Pac-Man - just didn't really appeal to me; and Bowser Jr. just felt like a waste until his trailer showing off the Koopalings. That's when I felt Jr was 'rescued from scrappy heap,' not to mention actually being an interesting character - Smash Bros' first 'mech-fighter.'

That said, with this secondary rumour about Porky, Medusa and Goroh, feels a bit odd in my opinion that he'd be a new EarthBound/Mother character given the series is finished. Same with Samurai Goroh, and they could easily use Viridi or Hades as a KI villain. Can't really say I see a 'Heroes Vs Villains' motif going on with Smash Switch.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I remember that when listing reasons why Ridley or King K. Rool should be in smash, one of the most recurrent reasons is "Because they are villains, smash really needs more villains".
Is one of the reasons that I wrote when I send my votes for them in the ballot and I'm sure I wasn't the only one.
And of course not all newcomers are gonna be villains because the theme is "heroes vs villains", not just "villains", this means we could see an illustration of Simon Belmot fighting Ridley or Sora fighting Medusa.

Huh, I never considered Sakurai might have got the idea to add more villians due to the Smash Ballot. People who voted Wolf, Ridley and King K. Rool all could have mentioned this, so that's a lot of people requesting villians...

Not saying it's likely but that's a new and interesting point to me.

 

[Murlough]

There's this little known character named Ganondorf.

I wouldn't call him a rival but ok. Anyway, I know Ganondorf....are you just trying to be cute? What exactly are you trying to accomplish by that? People keep doing this thing where they pick a single sentence in paragraphs and use it try to get smart with me and its gotten incredibly obnoxious.

Like, you don't even have a point. There is zero reasoning behind saying "Lmao Ganondorf" in response to my post.

I couldn't use Ganondorf because hes already in the game so...everybody in here knows Ganondorf exists...he isn't even in most games so calling him a rival feels kinda weird. (Mimikyu doesn't count it was just realised and Ganondorf was not.)

Sorry, if you didn't mean anything by it I just can't figure out why people keep doing that. Like no **** Ganon exists.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

If what they're saying about the original 12 getting villains are true, what's the likelihood Kamek is one of them (who else does Yoshi have?)

Oh, and I finally have full-body Kart Fighter Yoshi as my avatar

I mean yoshi's main villain is bowser, granted it's his baby form but y'know it's still bowser. Plus isn't kamek not a separate character from the magikoopa species in japan? I feel like that harms it's chances

 

[Nekoo]

Perhaps the Hero vs Vilain theme is what justifie the weird serious atmosphere of the Inkling Trailer? Starting in a white blank space (like splatoon 1 initial trailer) before it turns black, and the "main theme" playing sounding very Hero movie like-
And that almost every promotional thing we saw from Smash are black and white? Whenever it's the logo, Tournament invitational announcement etc

 

[Zeox]

Geno & Mallow (team)

Geno and Mallow as an one character, or like, you have Geno, 4 different colors, and the other 4 are mallow, and you can choose one or the other but they are pretty much the same character, like Olimar and Alph?

 

[Zinith]

I mean yoshi's main villain is bowser, granted it's his baby form but y'know it's still bowser. Plus isn't kamek not a separate character from the magikoopa species in japan? I feel like that harms it's chances

Kamek is more involved in Yoshi games than Bowser is.

 

[osby]

Geno and Mallow as an one character, or like, you have Geno, 4 different colors, and the other 4 are mallow, and you can choose one or the other but they are pretty much the same character, like Olimar and Alph?

Possibilities:

• A team as in Pokemon Trainer's team
• A team as in Rosalina and Luma
• A team as in Ice Climbers
• A team as in Robin and Chrom

 

[Deleted member]

Named characters that will be playable:
Ice Climbers
Mimikyu
Elma
Chorus Kids
Takamaru
Dixie Kong
Wolf
Ridley
K. Rool
Medusa
Porky Minch (in spider mech)
Samurai Goroh
Simon Belmont
Sora
Geno & Mallow (team)
Snake

"Heroes vs Villains theme is intentional, it'll make more sense at E3"

While I personally highly doubt this leak, I tried to think of a few things it has going for it using that last line in particular. Vergeben said that Ridley might have a presence at E3 besides being playable, and if this equates to a stage prop, then Ridley could potentially represent the villains at E3, while some other character gets a prop to represent the heroes. And if the title of the game is "Super Smash Bros: Heroes vs. Villains", that'd explain why we don't know the title yet. This is all mental gymnastics though.

That said I didn't really get a heroes vs. villains vibe from the trailer since Bowser was definitely standing next to the likes of Mario and Link. It felt a lot more like the Inklings are now one of Smash's best and brightest, not a "Welcome to the good guy squad", so the leak is probably pandering to a theme that gets brought up every so often. But I've really only seen the "we need more villains" thing as a way to further justify the more popular ones, Ridley and K. Rool.

 

[Zeox]

Perhaps the Hero vs Vilain theme is what justifie the weird serious atmosphere of the Inkling Trailer? Starting in a white blank space (like splatoon 1 initial trailer) before it turns black, and the "main theme" playing sounding very Hero movie like-
And that almost every promotional thing we saw from Smash are black and white? Whenever it's the logo, Tournament invitational announcement etc

In Smash 4 the announcements had all a letter, this one have darkness and a big scary ball of fire with ominous music and shadow figures.
It gives you chills.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Kamek is more involved in Yoshi games than Bowser is.

Isn't kamek essentially baby bowser's caretaker though? baby bowser is still the main villain. Granted both could be in though I understand why they wouldn't add a yoshi villain since it's already so closely connected with mario to the point that they share a villain

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I mean yoshi's main villain is bowser, granted it's his baby form but y'know it's still bowser. Plus isn't kamek not a separate character from the magikoopa species in japan? I feel like that harms it's chances

Yoshi could have Bowser Jr as a reference to baby Bowser, or the Koopa kids in general as a reference to Super Mario World.
I never realized that with this rumor the original 10 series would all have a villian. That....in a way...makes the hero vs. villians theme a little more visible.

Perhaps the Hero vs Vilain theme is what justifie the weird serious atmosphere of the Inkling Trailer? Starting in a white blank space (like splatoon 1 initial trailer) before it turns black, and the "main theme" playing sounding very Hero movie like-
And that almost every promotional thing we saw from Smash are black and white? Whenever it's the logo, Tournament invitational announcement etc

Counterpoint: I like the idea that maybe this video is the heroes recruiting Inkling, and then we could have a trailer recruiting villians, but Bowser is clearly in the Inkling trailer (probably). I know you didn't say that exactly but I think it would have been a nicer touch to only have heroes in the shadows

 

[Pazzo.]

One reason why Smash 5 is darker could be another step towards the "epic" that Brawl tried to capture.

I'd say Brawl was more "edgy" than anything, but that main theme was killer.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Isn't kamek essentially baby bowser's caretaker though? baby bowser is still the main villain. Granted both could be in though I understand why they wouldn't add a yoshi villain since it's already so closely connected with mario to the point that they share a villain

The one thing that should probably be kept in mind is that in the first Yoshi's Island game, Baby Bowser was never involved with Kamek's plans for capturing the Mario Bros.. When he first saw Yoshi, all that he cared about was riding on top of Yoshi like a donkey.

 

[Zinith]

Isn't kamek essentially baby bowser's caretaker though? baby bowser is still the main villain. Granted both could be in though I understand why they wouldn't add a yoshi villain since it's already so closely connected with mario to the point that they share a villain

I was more focused on the "original 12" getting villain reps part of the leak and I was thinking, "if that's true, then what on earth would Yoshi have if Bowser was going to Mario." It wasn't all that serious (since I don't consider "leaks" viable until proven otherwise).

Also, Jesus Christ, give that "Yoshi is a Mario rep in Smash" a rest already...

 

[SirCamp]

Speaking of which, why don't we all say who our most hated characters whom we eventually warmed up to? Mine is Little Mac.

So this is an interesting question. Mostly because in thinking about it I've realized that I mostly haven't really warmed to any characters... Granted I haven't played much of Smash 4 since I could never justify a wii u and then the switch happened, but the characters that I had a negative reaction to that I can recall are R.O.B., Bayonetta, Snake, Pichu, and Roy. Also possibly Game & Watch way back when he was added, mostly because I was young and had no idea who/what he was.

Of those G&W has grown on me. A lot actually.

On the other hand R.O.B. still strikes me as incredibly uninteresting. Bayonetta and Snake feel very out of place to me (competitiveness aside). Pichu is just a lame choice in my opinion. And Roy does nothing for me, but I get that he's popular. Hate might be a strong word for him.

 

[osby]

By the way: Why everyone thinks this game's name will be a big deal? We didn't got a name, okay, but none of the previous games have any substantial names. Even "Melee" and "Brawl" is added in localization.

 

[Nekoo]

And now you realize that if Sora makes in, it's probably Nomura wanting to shoe horn and sell to Sakurai the concept of Light and Darkness that he keep seeling us for almost 17 years alongside "everyone is Xehanort and Everyone is Sora."

 

[Polan]

Wait what's this Heroes vs Villains theme I'm reading about?

it's from a random leak that everyone is taking seriously because source gaming talked about it. there's no credible name behind it, we don't even know if its one or multiple individuals involved and it was "leaked" in the most obnoxious, attention seeking manner. not to mention it was posted on reddit where we get a fake leak on a daily basis. and finally the idea of a themed roster is dumb and limiting and sakurai has done no such thing in the past.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Wait I just realized that the "leaker" only said the theme was intentional and that it would be clear at E3. They did not say it was the name of the game (unless that was a different post I missed).

Maybe the theme is only used for the E3 trailer, showcasing a bunch of villians vs. the heroes.

Still not saying its likely lol, but I could never believe the entire game was hero vs. villian theme so maybe just the E3 trailer is.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I was more focused on the "original 12" getting villain reps part of the leak and I was thinking, "if that's true, then what on earth would Yoshi have if Bowser was going to Mario." It wasn't all that serious (since I don't consider "leaks" viable until proven otherwise).

Also, Jesus Christ, give that "Yoshi is a Mario rep in Smash" a rest already...

literally where did I say yoshi was a mario rep? I've never said that lmao, I said they share the same villain which is true lol, and I've said yoshi acts as a mario sub-series which is also true, as does wario and to a lesser extent dk, they all take place within the same universe after all

 

[YoshiandToad]

Speaking of which, why don't we all say who our most hated characters whom we eventually warmed up to? Mine is Little Mac.

Bowser Jr. I hated him. However he ended up being my favourite newcomer in Sm4sh due to the way he was put in(and that I didn't technically have to play as him thanks to the Koopalings alts).

Special mention: Wii Fit Trainer

I still hate Rosalina, Palutena, Dark Pit and Dr. Mario though.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

One reason why Smash 5 is darker could be another step towards the "epic" that Brawl tried to capture.

I'd say Brawl was more "edgy" than anything, but that main theme was killer.

Personally, I think that Smash Switch should not go with the dark and edgy tone. We've already been there with Brawl, and we're well past the point where Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, and Bowser sound like real world animals.

 

[Arcadenik]

Oh, I didn't thought in that, but is true, the imgur leak doesn't just pick random Nintendo villains, but with it, all the original smash64 franchises gets a villain, with the return of wolf and all... + Kid Icarus, but I can see some reasons to why Medusa would be chosen.
1. Because if the theme is heroes vs villains, it needs at least one female main villain.
2. Sakurai loves Kid Icarus.
3. It have a lot of potential as a character.
4. It would get along with Snake.

And it would get along with Simon Belmont.

It seems like the villain newcomers are inspired by Castlevania enemies.

King K. Rool = lizard man
Medusa = medusa
Mimikyu = ghost
Porky = spider
Ridley = wyvern
Samurai Goroh = sword knight
Wolf = werewolf

 

[T-Hell]

Perhaps the Hero vs Vilain theme is what justifie the weird serious atmosphere of the Inkling Trailer? Starting in a white blank space (like splatoon 1 initial trailer) before it turns black, and the "main theme" playing sounding very Hero movie like-
And that almost every promotional thing we saw from Smash are black and white? Whenever it's the logo, Tournament invitational announcement etc

Yeah, I made that point a few days ago. That dark and mysterious theme, along with that music, seemed like a war was about to start. But I may be talking out of my ass so who knows.

 

[WaddleMatt]

literally where did I say yoshi was a mario rep? I've never said that lmao, I said they share the same villain which is true lol, and I've said yoshi acts as a mario sub-series which is also true, as does wario and to a lesser extent dk, they all take place within the same universe after all

Kamek is a much more recognisable villain in my opinion. He is the one who kidnaps Baby Luigi, he is the one that causes trouble for the Yoshis. Bowser just appears at the end.

 

[osby]

Brawl's first real trailer was still very like Subspace Emissary: a triumphant theme with intense battles but wacky comedy is still there.

This trailer was way too ominous.

 

[Zinith]

literally where did I say yoshi was a mario rep? I've never said that lmao, I said they share the same villain which is true lol, and I've said yoshi acts as a mario sub-series which is also true, as does wario and to a lesser extent dk, they all take place within the same universe after all

You're insistence on Yoshi (and Wario) being sub-series comes off as having little respect for his series on its own merits. The intent for including Yoshi in the first game was never to act as a sun-series rep for Mario (that was Luigi).

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Brawl's first real trailer was still very like Subspace Emissary: a triumphant theme, intense battles but wacky comedy it's still there.

This trailer was way too ominous.

The first trailer was, for the most part, a teaser. It's always possible that the next trailer won't feel so ominous.

 

[Yoshisaurus Rex]

It’s sure been a while since I posted in these forums. Hey all!

And it would get along with Simon Belmont.

It seems like the villain newcomers are inspired by Castlevania enemies.

King K. Rool = lizard man
Medusa = medusa
Mimikyu = ghost
Porky = spider
Ridley = wyvern
Samurai Goroh = sword knight
Wolf = werewolf

Sorry if this is nitpicky but Wolf would be a returning vet. Not a newcomer. The wyvern sure looks a heck of a lot like Ridley though

 

[T-Hell]

While I personally highly doubt this leak, I tried to think of a few things it has going for it using that last line in particular. Vergeben said that Ridley might have a presence at E3 besides being playable, and if this equates to a stage prop, then Ridley could potentially represent the villains at E3, while some other character gets a prop to represent the heroes. And if the title of the game is "Super Smash Bros: Heroes vs. Villains", that'd explain why we don't know the title yet. This is all mental gymnastics though.

That said I didn't really get a heroes vs. villains vibe from the trailer since Bowser was definitely standing next to the likes of Mario and Link. It felt a lot more like the Inklings are now one of Smash's best and brightest, not a "Welcome to the good guy squad", so the leak is probably pandering to a theme that gets brought up every so often. But I've really only seen the "we need more villains" thing as a way to further justify the more popular ones, Ridley and K. Rool.

I think that what Vergeben means with Ridley having a presence at E3 outside of being playable in Smash is because of Metroid Prime 4. That's my guess at least, and that's even if he is being real.

 

[Zeox]

I guess that creepy music in the background must be the new main theme of smash?:

 

[osby]

The first trailer was, for the most part, a teaser. It's always possible that the next trailer won't feel so ominous.

Like how Villager got a letter of invitation and it never seen again? Probably.
It's just trailer divided Splatoon's fun atmosphere from Smash completely. It likely means nothing in the long run but I really wonder what was the message they were trying to get across with.

...Aside from burning Chibi-Robo.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Everyone is talking about other newcomers and I just want to see how the Inklings play.
Poor characters, now that they are confirmed, nobody care about what will be done with them.

 

[Nekoo]

I think that what Vergeben means with Ridley having a presence at E3 outside of being playable in Smash is because of Metroid Prime 4. That's my guess at least, and that's even if he is being real.

But isn't Metroid like...don't even have a date and E3 focusing on 2018 and at best first Quarter of 2019?
I feel like MAYBE we'll get another teaser, but I feel like Metroid/Pokemon main game could be the games focus of E3 2019

 

[Cosmic77]

I think that what Vergeben means with Ridley having a presence at E3 outside of being playable in Smash is because of Metroid Prime 4. That's my guess at least, and that's even if he is being real.

I always interpreted it as Ridley getting an amiibo on display, but I guess a Prime 4 appearance makes just as much sense.

...I want a Ridley amiibo.

 

[Esquelen]

Heroes:

Spoiler

Mario
Luigi
Peach
Rosalina & Luma
Yoshi
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
Link
Zelda
Sheik
Toon Link
Samus
Zero Suis Samus
Pit
Palutena
Marth
Ike
Robin
Lucina
Roy
Corrin
Kirby
Pikachu
Charizard
Jigglypuff
Lucario
Fox
Falco
Ness
Lucas
Mr. Game & Watch
Pac-man
Little Mac
Duck Hunt Dog (?)
R.O.B.
Megaman
Villager
Captain Falcon
Olimar & Pikmin
Wii Fit Trainer
Shulk
Ryu
Bayonetta
Sonic
Inkling
Ice Climbers
Elma
Chorus Kids
Dixie Kong
Takamaru
Simon Belmont
Sora
Geno & Mallow
Snake

Villains:

Spoiler

Bowser
Bowser Jr
Wario
Ganondorf
Dark Pit
King Dedede
Meta Knight (?)
Mewtwo
Greninja (?)
Mimikyu
Wolf
Ridley
King K Rool
Medusa
Porky
Samurai Goroh

(?)

 

[Zinith]

Everyone is talking about other newcomers and I just want to see how the Inklings play.
Poor characters, now that they are confirmed, nobody care about what will be done with them.

There's like an entire Forum dedicated to them. It's just that the people who congregate on this thread don't go there often...

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

You're insistence on Yoshi (and Wario) being sub-series comes off as having little respect for his series on its own merits. The intent for including Yoshi in the first game was never to act as a sun-series rep for Mario (that was Luigi).

He's his own series but he's still heavily connected to mario and takes place in the same universe as it, the yoshi series of games, just like the wario series are still sub-series of mario and the fact that both characters show up in mario and it's spin-offs shows that. But If yoshi had a cast of characters that would fit into smash then they would and should get in but as it stands right now it really doesn't, kamek is the closest but he's still largely a standard enemy. That's what puts wario having a second rep over yoshi imo since wario has his own separate cast of characters.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Villains:

Captain Falcon

Oppossum will agree with you on this one.