Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[P.Kat]

Wolves are strong they could carry a two hand item in it's jaw.
They drag large animals irl.
It's a fictional wolf monster creature, it can be as strong as it needs to be.

So true, you're right. Well whether by jaws or Geokinesis, I think we can agree that item holding will be no problem for Dusk Lycanroc

 

[Opossum]

The P clearly stands for Port. The end is nigh.

 

[NeonBurrito]

Maybe we can talk about something else like the special mechanics you would like the characters you want in to have.

I've never been much of a fan of Geno getting into Smash, but a mechanic that I thought would be incredibly cool for him would be "timed hits," where pressing the A Button when one of your attacks comes into contact with another character would give the attack some boosted damage and knockback. Although, I admit that this idea is blatantly stolen from the absolutely fantastic Legacy XP mod for Brawl. You can see how timed hits work with Geno right here (when the stars fly out and the sound effect plays), and they're incredibly fun to pull off. He's one of my favorite characters to play because of it.

Another thing I would love to see would be for any Rhythm Heaven character, were one to be in Smash, to have somewhat of a rhythm meter. As in, preforming multiple attacks in a certain pattern or to a certain rhythm would result in attacks becoming stronger, or something of the sort. Although, I feel like it would be very difficult to implement, for each stage has a multitude of unique songs with varying speeds.

If we just got Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Pichu back, I'd be extra hyped. I am one of the few who really liked Pichu's inclusion lol.

I've always thought that if Pichu came back as an extreme 'glass cannon' clone of Pikachu, I'd be totally down for him returning. Like, his attacks would come out incredibly quick and hit harder than Pikachu's would, but he would have extremely low death percents.

 

[Polan]

....yall gonna make me toxic. I am having an even harder time accepting Waluigi and Decidueye because of comments like this. At least if Daisy and Mimikyu won I wouldn't be a **** about it. All these petty jabs.

"Decidueye can just go be in a pokeball or something" is not a sentence that would ever leave my mouth. You can be a good sport win or lose why choose to be a poor one.

At least most of the Captain Toad/Paper Mario fans are cool.

If my ****posting can get you to stop tolerating waluigi then i'll consider my job done.

Win, lose...

Why are Smash characters a competition now, lol.

smash speculation is serious business. do not mock all the brave souls posting 30,000 word essays about why this obscure nintendo character will not get in.

 

[Zeox]

The P clearly stands for Port. The end is nigh.

No, it stands for Pigmask

Join the Porky's army now and receive free a cool weapon!

 

[Nebunera]

I've officially gone mad. Maybe we can talk about something else like the special mechanics you would like the characters you want in to have.

Does anyone else think that the rage mechanic is a little bit overpowered? I feel like it rewards the worst player, but I have a video segment that puts this in more detail.

 

[P.Kat]

I've never been much of a fan of Geno getting into Smash, but a mechanic that I thought would be incredibly cool for him would be "timed hits," where pressing the A Button when one of your attacks comes into contact with another character would give the attack some boosted damage and knockback. Although, I admit that this idea is blatantly stolen from the absolutely fantastic Legacy XP mod for Brawl. You can see how timed hits work with Geno right here (when the stars fly out and the sound effect plays), and they're incredibly fun to pull off. He's one of my favorite characters to play because of it.

Another thing I would love to see would be for any Rhythm Heaven character, were one to be in Smash, to have somewhat of a rhythm meter. As in, preforming multiple attacks in a certain pattern or to a certain rhythm would result in attacks becoming stronger, or something of the sort. Although, I feel like it would be very difficult to implement, for each stage has a multitude of unique songs with varying speeds.



I've always thought that if Pichu came back as an extreme 'glass cannon' clone of Pikachu, I'd be totally down for him returning. Like, his attacks would come out incredibly quick and hit harder than Pikachu's would, but he would have extremely low death percents.

I think timed attacks sounds like a good mechanic I haven't really followed Legacy XP from Brawl so this the first time I'm hearing it.

I think I'd like the challenge of schooling opponents to the beat of the stage music makes me think that a rhythm heaven character would have a special that immobilize a foe via hypnotic dance moves that cause foes to copy your character's dance moves (higher damage means longer dances giving you a chance to hit your enemy).

I wasn't really feeling the rhythm heaven characters in Smash but your idea got me thinking they'd be a fun character to play as I'm gonna start checking the different characters and see which one I'd like to have in Smash. If you don't mind me asking what do you think of the mechanics I came up with?

 

[?????????????]

I had an idea for a TIngle mechanic, were Tingle to become playable.

It's all rupee themed. Kind of like Little Mac's KO meter, Tingle has a special rupee counter that displays like it would in any Zelda game. Every time he damages someone, rupees come out of them, like coins from a coin match. If Tingle collects the rupees, he gets generally slightly faster and stronger the more rupees he has. However, he loses rupees as he gets hit as well.

The big thing, though, is that he needs rupees to activate his special moves, which are all fairly powerful. For instance, he can summon bodyguards to protect him, but that costs large sums of rupees. He can create balloons to free-fly for a while and drop bombs, but those cost rupees. He can shoot rupees as a continuous, powerful laser beam, but that rapidly drains rupees.

These are all references to things Tingle actually does.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Oh its so obvious

Spoiler

I've officially gone mad. Maybe we can talk about something else like the special mechanics you would like the characters you want in to have.

Spoiler: Mechanics

For me I would Lyn from Fire emblem to have an Iaido gauge that fills up for every hit you get on the enemy when it fills completely, her stats gets boosted especially her damage output since she'd be a fast hitting combo speedster who lacks power.

By pressing B, you can preforms the same move as she does in her AT, automatically flash stepping to the nearest (or even through all) opponents and performing a critical strike upon the opponent for high damage and knockback you can even slash through all 8 of them (assuming if 8 player smash returns) if your lucky but the more enemies you cut through this way, and the further your enemy is, the less knockback there is but damage stays the same.

Instead if you slash through most or all your enemies or if they are further away, an very quick animation will show your opponents stunned stiff while Lyn quickly sheaths her blade with a 'click' and the enemies fall to the ground taking high damage similar to Snake's sleeper hold throw (forgot which direction) if timed right enemies can power shield out of it so this move is best done after a combo.

Another idea (a bit more difficult to implement I admit) is she could use afterimages instead after the gauge fills a little with a couple attacking along side her (number of afterimages depend on how full the gauge is max 3, 5 if the system can handle it)allowing her to attack faster and extend her combo kinda like an Astra ability in FE enemies can attack the afterimages to stop them or attack Lyn to cancel the ability altogether.

Or to make it less complex, filling the gauge can activate Astra and the overall speed and the damage of her attacks and movements increase dramatically.

Another characters that could have cool mechanic is the Bo Staff wielding Krystal from Star Fox, for those who don't know she's a telepath. So why not add a mechanic that helps her avoid moves like she's reading the minds and movements of her opponent.

"Reading movements? You mean having visions like what Shulk does?" Quiet you. No, not even close. She would have gauge similar to the staff gauge in Star Fox Adventure except divided into ten segments to fill the gauge, you need to attack your opponent three hits with standard attacks fills one segment (even if you hit with a smash attack it still counts as one) one special attack fills two segments, and a KO fills 5 .

When the gauge is full you just hold shield and whatever attacks that comes land or air will automatically miss Krystal, it even cancels out end lag and shield stun from Krystal's moves and allows her to punish.

The catch is you can only dodge three moves it could be in a row or separate occasions but you can only dodge three moves and only when you hold shield (final smashes not included). Also the gauge increases her overall damage and the elemental powers of her staff (B: Fire Blaster, Side B: Ice blaster, Up B: Rocket Boost, Down B: Ground Quake) so you have to decide: build up your gauge to auto dodge oncoming attacks, or use the gauge to annihilate foes with the forces of nature.

Just my two cents (or twenty) on mechanics I'd like to see on characters that I think could add interesting gameplay. if anyone who want Lyn or Krystal have ideas of their own, I'd love to hear them, and of course if anybody want to describe mechanics they would want their other characters to have let me know to I'd love to hear what all of you come up with (if I remember, I heard someone say that Waluigi should have a cheating mechanic and Daisy a sport/stamina mechanic).

I really like the ideas you brought up for Lyn and Krystal's gameplay mechanics. I found the concept of how you implemented Krystal's telepathy into her gameplay to be particularly interesting.

 

[PeridotGX]

Okay, but what I REALLY want to talk about now is...

How many Pokémon newcomers do you think we’ll actually get, and what types? One or two? A 7th gen? Maybe another new 1st gen thanks to the upcoming rumored Switch games? Will we get additional ones as DLC?

Two in the base game, 1 as DLC. One is Lycanroc/Decidueye, the other could be anything (I'm thinking either Squirtle or another gen 7). The DLC one is for PKMN Switch

 

[SchAlternate]

I had an idea for a TIngle mechanic, were Tingle to become playable.

It's all rupee themed. Kind of like Little Mac's KO meter, Tingle has a special rupee counter that displays like it would in any Zelda game. Every time he damages someone, rupees come out of them, like coins from a coin match. If Tingle collects the rupees, he gets generally slightly faster and stronger the more rupees he has. However, he loses rupees as he gets hit as well.

The big thing, though, is that he needs rupees to activate his special moves, which are all fairly powerful. For instance, he can summon bodyguards to protect him, but that costs large sums of rupees. He can create balloons to free-fly for a while and drop bombs, but those cost rupees. He can shoot rupees as a continuous, powerful laser beam, but that rapidly drains rupees.

These are all references to things Tingle actually does.

That actually, unironically, sounds amazing. As much as I want my bae Vaati making it in as a new Zelda rep, Tingle is my safest bet, honestly.

 

[Zinith]

Oh boy, more Pokemon representation talk. Such a great and not-at-all-rehashed conversation.

Also, people are clamoring over what "P" means and some people are annoyed by it, but I'm more annoyed at RelaxAlax for doing cheeky bull**** like that

 

[P.Kat]

I had an idea for a TIngle mechanic, were Tingle to become playable.

It's all rupee themed. Kind of like Little Mac's KO meter, Tingle has a special rupee counter that displays like it would in any Zelda game. Every time he damages someone, rupees come out of them, like coins from a coin match. If Tingle collects the rupees, he gets generally slightly faster and stronger the more rupees he has. However, he loses rupees as he gets hit as well.

The big thing, though, is that he needs rupees to activate his special moves, which are all fairly powerful. For instance, he can summon bodyguards to protect him, but that costs large sums of rupees. He can create balloons to free-fly for a while and drop bombs, but those cost rupees. He can shoot rupees as a continuous, powerful laser beam, but that rapidly drains rupees.

These are all references to things Tingle actually does.

A character with a Coin Smash mechanic that gets rewarded for it more than just victory at the end of the match genius. Now I can't stop imaging Tingle grabbing a character and pummeling the rupees out of them "gimme my rupees DeeDeeDee." No wait darn you, now you make me want to add tingle as character too as if my signature isn't large enough XD

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Wolves are strong they could carry a two hand item in it's jaw.
They drag large animals irl.
It's a fictional wolf monster creature, it can be as strong as it needs to be.

Carrying a weapon and knowing how to use it are two different things though. While a sword is pretty straightforward to use, an energy gun is more advanced.

In the case of Dusk Form Lycanroc, it could use a Beam Sword or Star Rod without much effort, but it probably wouldn't be able to utilize the Super Scope or Daybreak properly.

 

[SlickWylde]

What if they released a new Pokemon Smash fighter in this upcoming Pokemon reveal (Supposedly happening either tonight or Thursday)? What would your guys' reactions be? (I don't think this is happening, though)

 

[P.Kat]

Does anyone else think that the rage mechanic is a little bit overpowered? I feel like it rewards the worst player, but I have a video segment that puts this in more detail.

I never had a problem with it personally even when it works against me but I'm just one person

 

[Nebunera]

What if they released a new Pokemon Smash fighter in this upcoming Pokemon reveal (Supposedly happening either tonight or Thursday)? What would your guys' reactions be? (I don't think this is happening, though)

I wouldn't want any reveals until E3, because otherwise it is just too soon and unprepared for...keep everything for June 12th and we're good!

 

[SmashChu]

So whats going on. Are you all getting taken on a ruse cruise?

 

[-crump-]

I’ve been going silent on all of the recent developments, mostly because I don’t really know how to feel about the whole thing. I like Relax Alax, and with how cryptic he’s being I don’t automatically doubt he has some info. That said, I do find it annoying that he and other people are trying to stir the pot. We’ve got two weeks left; everybody just shut up and wait for the big show instead of trying to create impossible expectations.

...Yes, I’m in a bad mood, if it wasn’t obvious

Does anyone else think that the rage mechanic is a little bit overpowered? I feel like it rewards the worst player, but I have a video segment that puts this in more detail.

It absolutely rewards the worst player, that was what Sakurai had in mind when he put it in. It’s just another comeback mechanic he adds for bad players and beginners so they can compete with the big boys.

This, of course, is a stupid design method for a fighting game, but I don’t think a Sakurai will ever try to raise the bar for difficulty in Smash, he wants everything to be 100% casual friendly. At least he got the message to some extent and axed random tripping.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

So whats going on. Are you all getting taken on a ruse cruise?

While reading this post aloud my dumb*** read this as "Blue's Clues".

Steve & Blue for Smash everyone

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

What if they released a new Pokemon Smash fighter in this upcoming Pokemon reveal (Supposedly happening either tonight or Thursday)? What would your guys' reactions be? (I don't think this is happening, though)

"But why? E3 is so close."

 

[P.Kat]

Carrying a weapon and knowing how to use it are two different things though. While a sword is pretty straightforward to use, an energy gun is more advanced.

In the case of Dusk Form Lycanroc, it could use a Beam Sword or Star Rod without much effort, but it probably wouldn't be able to utilize the Super Scope or Daybreak properly.

If Pikachu can use a Super Scope and various firearms, anyone can.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

If Pikachu can use a Super Scope and various firearms, anyone can.

Pikachu can stand on two legs though. Lycanroc's Midday and Dusk Forms are 100% quadrupedal, so they're not able to use firearms in the same way as Pikachu. Midnight Form Lycanroc, however, does not have this problem, but it's far less popular than the Dusk Form.

As for Ivysaur, its vines enabled it to overcome its quadrupedal handicap.

 

[StrangeMann]

I wonder if the new pokemon announcement has any bearing on the development on smash switch? I would assume no at this point in development, but it if it is the kanto region again, you never can tell what might have been planned ahead for the sake of marketing. We don't even know when smash switch will launch.

 

[Garteam]

I googled "dog with gun" to get ideas on how Lycanroc could use a super scope. I didn't get what I wanted but I'm not disappointed with what I did get.

Spoiler

 

[T-Donor66]

Let’s just take in the fact that in 13 days, we will be seeing a full trailer and tons of gameplay for a BRAND NEW Smash game. It feels surreal to me.

 

[RandomAce]

I disagree with Lycanroc being a good character choice for smash bros. Smash bros already has a doglike pokemon (lucario) and a quadrapedal dog (duck hunt) fighter already. If Zoroark was turned down the last smash bros, I don't see why Lycanroc would be picked for this installment. I have seen the argument that lycanroc was advertised better and has form changes with it's werewolf-like-niche, but I'm just not seeing it when Zoroark was turned down the last game with it's illusion abilities. I also don't know if Sakurai would want day/night cycles for every stage that would determine the character's usefulness or telegraphed form changes.

On the other hand, Mimikyu and Decidueye both have redeeming qualities that would make them different from existing in game fighters and would give them a typing/move uniqueness that differenciates them from the rest of the cast. I understand link is also an archer for one of his moves, but this is not nearly to the extent of decidueye could be with his feathers. Mimikyu's ability (disguise) also proposes an extremely unique mechanic which very few other characters could appeal to: free immunity from the first attack that lands. This can be a massive advantage, basically having a free defense at the start of every stock or life allows for you to be aggressive when spawning in without worries of being overaggressive. Both of these pokemon could also exploit their ghost typings to pull out new and unique movesets.

I can sort of agree with this. Tbh, I mainly support Lycanroc because of the possible concept that multiple forms could be used in it’s moveset to make it more unique, and we haven’t had a earth and stance based moveset yet in Smash (Excluding transformations).

But if they’re only using the Dusk form, then I’m gonna be pretty disappointed. It wouldn’t really stand out and I generally don’t like that form compared to the other two which are my all time favorites in my opinion.

 

[P.Kat]

I really like the ideas you brought up for Lyn and Krystal's gameplay mechanics. I found the concept of how you implemented Krystal's telepathy into her gameplay to be particularly interesting.

Thanks. I see Krystal as a character with high speed and above average range with her Bo Staff (although not more range than Shulk, or Corrin) but with average to below average kill confirms so the telepathy mechanic helps her to either build power and damage to her moves by reading enemies weakpoints or to dodge kill combos. I'm glad you thought my ideas were interesting.

 

[CannonStreak]

I googled "dog with gun" to get ideas on how Lycanroc could use a super scope. I didn't get what I wanted but I'm not disappointed with what I did get.

Spoiler

Well, if you are looking for a dog holding such a weapon, why not think of Duck Hunt Dog, or this?

 

[Cosmic77]

Pikachu can stand on two legs though. Lycanroc's Midday and Dusk Forms are 100% quadrupedal, so they're not able to use firearms in the same way as Pikachu. Midnight Form Lycanroc, however, does not have this problem, but it's far less popular than the Dusk Form.

As for Ivysaur, its vines enabled it to overcome its quadrupedal handicap.

I understand why you have doubts about this working, but I really think you're overthinking this. Finding a way for a character to properly hold a few two-handed items should be way down on Sakurai's priority list when he's designing a moveset. It doesn't have to be perfect or make sense. It just has to somehow work.

I mean, R.O.B. doesn't exactly have a mouth, but he can still somehow shoot fire from his face when he eats Superspicy Curry. How does that work?

 

[Radical Bones]

Man these YouTube celebrities are trolling us all so hard right now. Legit, all they've told us is that they know something and we're losing our minds. I would have rathered they kept it to themselves to be honest.

'I know something you don't know... but I'll get sued if I say something so soz you'll have to wait but it's about Smash and I think you'll like it.'

Anyway. If that's all we have to discuss then that is fine. Without PotD or the Dojo, this speculation period has kinda sucked.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Attention, Trainers! A Pokémon press conference is about to begin in Tokyo, Japan. You’ll want to turn your notifications on for this! Follow along today for exciting Pokémon news! pic.twitter.com/vBDwhMl0Gw

— Pokémon (@Pokemon) May 30, 2018

Well looks like that Pokemon news leak is true.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Let’s just take in the fact that in 13 days, we will be seeing a full trailer and tons of gameplay for a BRAND NEW Smash game. It feels surreal to me.

I'm still dead at the fact that sakurai has said "this is the last game" for the past 3 entires yet here he is 5 games in lmao, he's probably sick of smash and the fanbase by now lol.

 

[T-Donor66]

Attention, Trainers! A Pokémon press conference is about to begin in Tokyo, Japan. You’ll want to turn your notifications on for this! Follow along today for exciting Pokémon news! pic.twitter.com/vBDwhMl0Gw

— Pokémon (@Pokemon) May 30, 2018

Well looks like that Pokemon news leak is true.

OH BOY HERE WE GO

 

[RandomAce]

Attention, Trainers! A Pokémon press conference is about to begin in Tokyo, Japan. You’ll want to turn your notifications on for this! Follow along today for exciting Pokémon news! pic.twitter.com/vBDwhMl0Gw

— Pokémon (@Pokemon) May 30, 2018

Well looks like that Pokemon news leak is true.

Hype begins.

Please no Kanto remakes.

 

[StrangeMann]

Man these YouTube celebrities are trolling us all so hard right now. Legit, all they've told us is that they know something and we're losing our minds. I would have rathered they kept it to themselves to be honest.

'I know something you don't know... but I'll get sued if I say something so soz you'll have to wait but it's about Smash and I think you'll like it.'

Anyway. If that's all we have to discuss then that is fine. Without PotD or the Dojo, this speculation period has kinda sucked.

I agree that this is a tense time in speculation. Melee's development cycle was before the era of speculation, so we're in a dark age atm of smash speculation without the PotD and Dojo. I really wish that the PotD style returned, but this is the first time in many years where there's speculation about a known smash game without any gameplay or constant stream of information to look at. It leaves the fanbase in the dark and causes a tense feeling.

 

[prettynice]

Let’s just take in the fact that in 13 days, we will be seeing a full trailer and tons of gameplay for a BRAND NEW Smash game. It feels surreal to me.

Yeah. It's hard to believe we're so close. It would be unfortunate if they got our hypes up just for it to be a lackluster port with some more DLC, lmfao.

 

[RandomAce]

I agree that this is a tense time in speculation. Melee's development cycle was before the era of speculation, so we're in a dark age atm of smash speculation without the PotD and Dojo. I really wish that the PotD style returned, but this is the first time in many years where there's speculation about a known smash game without any gameplay or constant stream of information to look at. It leaves the fanbase in the dark and causes a tense feeling.

Don’t worry. When they finally unveil Smash 5, it’s gonna be the most hypest 30 minutes anyone has ever had.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Hype begins.

Please no Kanto remakes.

Agreed. I don't like that Kanto is the only region revisited in the post games. I would really like to see time skips of one of the other regions instead.

 

[T-Donor66]

Yeah. It's hard to believe we're so close. It would be unfortunate if they got our hypes up just for it to be a lackluster port with some more DLC, lmfao.

I am almost 100% sure they wouldn’t do that to us, after being so vague and secretive for the past few months. Let’s just hope I’m right.