Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Also, call me biased, but any leak that mentions Marx instead of Bandana Dee or even Magolor is fake for me.

He only started being popular weeks ago thanks to Star Allies DLC and the roster was finalized years ago.

Marx, yes. Magolor has had a lot of fringe popularity, at least here, as well.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

The aspect of "no cuts" I keep seeing is very odd considering we know it's a brand new game.

You're telling me that they're going to bring back all 58 characters while on top of that adding new characters, despite developing the game from scratch again. That sounds extremely unrealistic considering the circumstances.

People assume that Smash 4 characters will just be ported despite the fact veterans have not just been ported in previous games. Also, every character added is not just an addition in terms of balancing but a multiplication.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I'm skeptical because it's just yet another snowballing of the vegen leak

 

[Tree Gelbman]

All of these leaks don't take into account that I'm sitting in Bandai Namco right now with a knife to Kirby's head telling Sakurai to add my own personal wish list.

So any E3 Leak that doesn't mention Miley Cyrus and Hannah Montana as a character lik Sheik and Zelda used to be? It's an instant fake.

 

[N3ON]

The aspect of "no cuts" I keep seeing is very odd considering we know it's a brand new game.

You're telling me that they're going to bring back all 58 characters while on top of that adding new characters, despite developing the game from scratch again. That sounds extremely unrealistic considering the circumstances.

Exactly. This game isn't going to be built new from the ground up and have no cuts. It's either one or the other, people are getting a bit carried away.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

The aspect of "no cuts" I keep seeing is very odd considering we know it's a brand new game.

You're telling me that they're going to bring back all 58 characters while on top of that adding new characters, despite developing the game from scratch again. That sounds extremely unrealistic considering the circumstances.

being a new game doesn't mean it has to be built from scratch tho

 

[ErenJager]

If you could or if you would create a fake leak, what information would you put into it?

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Exactly. This game isn't going to be built new from the ground up and have no cuts. It's either one or the other, people are getting a bit carried away.

Yea agreed despite a realiable guys the Not cuts part is what tells me he's wrong

The only way I see that part be correct if the characters animation are next to the same as smash 4

I just want E3 to come and end this stupid rumor

 

[MrRoidley]

If you could or if you would create a fake leak, what information would you put into it?

I'd definitely not put Ridley or Simon in it, so, in the case it blows up, it could go toe to toe with Vergeben and people be like "which one is real???"

 

[Garteam]

Spyro was never big in Japan, which could hurt his chance of being DLC.

That's also true. Crash was always much bigger in Japan because of smart marketing (also, Spyro getting his game edited for the worse didn't help). Plus, Crash's seniority may also lead to him over Spyro.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Also, call me biased, but any leak that mentions Marx instead of Bandana Dee or even Magolor is fake for me.

He only started being popular weeks ago thanks to Star Allies DLC and the roster was finalized years ago.

Hasn't Marx been a requested Kirby character for like ever??? I defintely hopped on the Marx train recently with Star Allies Dlc (which besides being late, is totally irrelevant after the datamine and nearly every Kirby villian is becoming playable) but I remember hearing requests for him pre Smash 4.

I remember because I thought it was a dumb request at the time lol.

 

[NeonBurrito]

Hasn't Marx been a requested Kirby character for like ever??? I defintely hopped on the Marx train recently with Star Allies Dlc (which besides being late, is totally irrelevant after the datamine and nearly every Kirby villian is becoming playable) but I remember hearing requests for him pre Smash 4.

I remember because I thought it was a dumb request at the time lol.

Not really.

Even when ignoring Bandana Waddle Dee, the other big Kirby picks of yesteryear tended to be Dark Matter Swordsman, Magolor, Adeleine, or even Knuckle Joe, due to his role as an assist trophy.

Like, it wouldn't surprise me if someone mentioned Marx for Smash sometime within the past, but it hasn't really been a thing until Star Allies.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I just realized if on the off chance Sora got into Smash the sheer insanity of the below sentence my boyfriend and I just discussed:

''Sora has battled alongside the likes of Mickey Mouse, but went up to toe to toe with Bayonetta in Smash Brothers."

 

[CannonStreak]

Say, guys, when E3 comes around, and if the characters revealed are not anyone from the leaks, like Ridley and Simon Belmont, how would you react to those leaks being proven false? Being upset that your wanted characters did not get announced, or possibly the more likely scenario of not being surprised?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Say, guys, when E3 comes around, and if the characters revealed are not anyone from the leaks, like Ridley and Simon Belmont, how would you react to those leaks being proven false? Being upset that your wanted characters did not get announced, or possibly the more likely scenario of not being surprised?

Honestly? I felt with Brawl and Wii U/3DS Sakurai spoiled us. So with this one? I'm just along for the ride. Throw whatever you want at me Sakurai. I trust you completely.

 

[Pazzo.]

Say, guys, when E3 comes around, and if the characters revealed are not anyone from the leaks, like Ridley and Simon Belmont, how would you react to those leaks being proven false? Being upset that your wanted characters did not get announced, or possibly the more likely scenario of not being surprised?

I, like a great number, would probably roll with it.

3 Smashes with no Ridley has prepared many of us.

 

[Zinith]

Say, guys, when E3 comes around, and if the characters revealed are not anyone from the leaks, like Ridley and Simon Belmont, how would you react to those leaks being proven false? Being upset that your wanted characters did not get announced, or possibly the more likely scenario of not being surprised?

I'd be like "those leaks were fake. Meanwhile, grass is green, water is wet and Yoshi is still overlooked for some reason."

 

[CannonStreak]

Honestly? I felt with Brawl and Wii U/3DS Sakurai spoiled us. So with this one? I'm just along for the ride. Throw whatever you want at me Sakurai. I trust you completely.

Heh heh! I almost feel the same way, and by almost, I mean 0.00000000000001 percent not feeling that way, if you know what I mean.

 

[Ura]

Say, guys, when E3 comes around, and if the characters revealed are not anyone from the leaks, like Ridley and Simon Belmont, how would you react to those leaks being proven false? Being upset that your wanted characters did not get announced, or possibly the more likely scenario of not being surprised?

I would be ecstatic AF because none of those characters aside from K. Rool, Elma, and Bandana Dee are ones that I want.

Alternatively, I could wound up being even more disappointed with the reveal so it's a double edged sword I guess.

 

[smileMasky]

You know what I'm calling it now because for what ever reason I feel Travis Touchdown Will be announced along side his game trailer

 

[Questionmark222]

Figured I'd drop my roster prediction before E3 rolls around.
It stands at 71 characters including 60 veterans and 11 newcomers, counting the 3 Mii Fighter classes as separate characters.
I made this based on the assumption that 5mash is a "half sequel" (in the vein of Majora's Mask and Splatoon 2) to Sm4sh Wii U, basically reusing its engine and assets while further expanding on it as a "true" sequel (one that would be made from scratch) would do.), but originally started as a straight Smash 4 port with few additional content.
If this is the case, I think that we won't see any cuts from Sm4sh this time around, because all the resources to port the entire Sm4sh roster over will be usable and it won't take too much dev time (of course, licensing issues are a thing and could get some third-parties out of 5mash, but I doubt it, since all the third-party companies that have characters in Sm4sh already have a good relationship with Nintendo).
Finally, on to the newcomers. I think we should expect around 10, while also having some veterans getting revamped and feel like new characters altogether (which I'll get to later). I mainly based my choices on potential uniqueness, importance and relevance to Nintendo, Ballot-based popularity, as well as previously considered characters.
If anyone wants to discuss it with me, feel free anytime. However I'll go sleep right now cause otherwise my tiredness will kill me.

Spoiler: Newcomer explanations

Captain Toad (with Toadette as an alt)- The current rising star of the Mario series, starring in his own game and being prominently featured in many recent Mario games. He may not be able to jump canonically, but Sakurai will surely get creative to work his way around that apparent limitation (some have suggested that he could get gradually lighter when throwing things away from his backpack).

King K. Rool- We know for a fact that the Ballot will most likely be looked to for choosing some characters (https://mynintendonews.com/2018/04/...be-used-for-reference-for-future-smash-games/). So this is probably the best shot that K. Rool has to make his long-awaited debut in Smash. Thanks to the Mii costume, we know that he's on Sakurai's radar. Plus, the many alisases he went through could give him a vast arsenal of attacks (Cannonballs, Blunderbuss, Helicopter Pack, Boxing Gloves) that would make him stand out from the crowd.

Lycanroc- For many, Decidueye is the bird of choice when it comes to the next Pokémon character in Smash. But as far as character selection in that particular franchise for Smash goes, the dev team usually turns to the characters that are (or are planned to be) prominent in the Pokémon anime. This is what gives the edge to Lycanroc over Decidueye in my opinion, because the former was heavily pushed commercially by TPC, not only in the anime with it being Ash's ace Pokémon, but also in the games, and other forms of merchandise. Its build as a quadruped could also make him really unique in Smash's environment, which is something Sakurai always aims for with character choices.

Alph- Since Smash Switch most likely started as a port, it is safe to assume that the development team turned to unused resources and assets to make additional characters. And since Alph was most likely planned in Sm4sh as a clone, instead of a costume, of Olimar, he probably was an easy character to make for the dev team, being a clone. This furthers the trend of "free dessert" clones that we saw in Smash since Melee, and will likely reoccur here.

Rex and Pyra- With Xenoblade Chronicles 2 having entered development in mid-2014, it is safe to assume that the game was far enough in development by the time Sakurai decided on Smash Switch's roster (based on general consensus, mid-to-late 2016) to turn there instead of X. Furthermore, their unique "affinity" mechanic could easily translate into Smash's environment and would offer a fresh new idea to the roster.

Sheriff- Ever since Melee, there has been a trend of Sakurai adding a "surprise" character that represents a piece of hardware from Nintendo's past (Mr. Game in Watch in Melee, R.O.B. in Brawl and Duck Hunt in Smash 4). So I figured that having a character from Nintendo's arcade days, before any major successes in the gaming industry, would be a bold move that very few people would expect.

Takamaru- There has also been a trend of adding a character from the NES days (Ice Climbers for Melee, Pit for Brawl and Little Mac for Smash 4). Many characters could be brought up for this position, but the one that stands out is Takamaru, who has been heavily considered by Sakurai multiple times beforehand, ultimately not making it in due to his lack of awareness in the West. But his appearance as an assist trophy in Smash 4 and the release of his game on overseas Virtual Console could make the difference for him this time around.

Chorus Kids- There is evidence in Smash 4's data that a Rhythm Heaven character was at some point planned for the game, but cut during development. Reasons for that are unclear (most point to time constraints, which is the most likely), but this means that that franchise is on Sakurai's radar. A rhythm-based fighter is something we don't have in Smash yet, and I think that having the Chorus Kids as a "blank slate" character which incorporates many RH minigames in a Game and Watch-style moveset would best do the series justice.

Inkling- Confirmed.

Rayman- Nintendo and Ubisoft are very close to each other, and this has shown in recent years. From Rayman Legends initially planned as a Wii U exclusive, to Nintendo publishing some of Ubisoft's games in Japan, to Mario and Rabbids and even trophies of Rayman characters in Smash 4. Rayman is a modern gaming icon, being present across all platforms and even on the mobile market, and is pretty much Ubisoft's Mario. Also, his limbless build would make him a truly unique Smash character.

Steve- I may be crazy, but hear me out on this one. Minecraft is a cultural phenomenon (which I don't need to elaborate on). I think that, while this is unlikely, Steve encapsulates all of what Sakurai looks for in a third-party character: significance to gaming and iconicnes: and Steve's pretty much the face of modern gaming. Plus, the entire concept of Minecraft, based on construction and tool crafting, would be interesting to translate in Smash and would make Steve stand out. And as a reminder, since Phil Spencer, head of Xbox, is interested in Banjo-Kazooie being included in Smash, I see no reason for him to turn it down for Steve, especially since he seems satisfied with collaborations made with Nintendo on Minecraft cross-play (https://gonintendo.com/stories/2929...s-nintendo-on-their-working-relationship-thro).

Spoiler: Major veteran changes

- Ice Climbers and Wolf return from Brawl.
- Mario gets a semi-revamped moveset based on Odyssey.
- Link and Zelda get their BOTW design and their movesets are revamped accordingly.
- Sheik gets a design close to the Sheikah outfit Link can wear on BOTW (which is close to her HW design).
- Ganondorf gets fully decloned, and gets a new design based on a hypothetical Avatar of Calamity.
- Samus gets her Samus Returns design.
- Fox, Falco and Wolf get their Star Fox Zero design.
- Lucina and Dark Pit are Luigified.
- Ken is an alternate character to Ryu.

​

 

[MrRoidley]

Say, guys, when E3 comes around, and if the characters revealed are not anyone from the leaks, like Ridley and Simon Belmont, how would you react to those leaks being proven false? Being upset that your wanted characters did not get announced, or possibly the more likely scenario of not being surprised?

A mix of sad that Ridley is seemingly not in (I consider E3 to be his biggest and potentially only shot), but (potentially) pleasantly surprised because I knew nothing beforehand

 

[StrangeMann]

Say, guys, when E3 comes around, and if the characters revealed are not anyone from the leaks, like Ridley and Simon Belmont, how would you react to those leaks being proven false? Being upset that your wanted characters did not get announced, or possibly the more likely scenario of not being surprised?

Ridley is one of my most wanted, and this is possibly his only shot, but if the alternatives are also characters I'm looking forward to (like Shovel Knight or K Rool) then I wouldn't mind as much.

 

[Nielicus]

I haven't been this hype for Nintendo's E3 in a while, Smash is about to be so hype regardless of the leaks being real or not. Tbh I never put my energy into leaks, so even if we do or don't see Ridley I'm gonna be shook no matter what.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

By game I more meant his series. I probably should've been a bit more specific, my bad.

Crash and Spyro are basically in the same boat. Neither of them are going to make the base roster due to the fact they were largely dead until very recently, but both would be great DLC characters. They're unique, well requested, and are gaming icons. The biggest problem they have in their way is Activision, although they've been a lot cooler about other companies using their characters so never say never.

Quote is kinda a unique case. Cave Story has a very long history with Nintendo and is rather popular. The big thing Quote has in his way is the sheer amount of competition. As a third party, he's up against gaming giants like Simon Belmont, Snake, and Lara Croft for Sakurai's eye. Quote's best chance at success would come if Sakurai intentionally wanted an indie character in Smash, where he would still have to compete against big names like Shovel Knight, Shantae, and Steve, but at least then he'd be punching a better weight class.

MegaMan was dead before he joined Smash

 

[Roberk]

being a new game doesn't mean it has to be built from scratch tho

Every Smash game has reused assets from previous games and Melee to Brawl/Brawl to 4 still had cuts. Every Smash game before has been considered a new game. I don't see Smash Switch being any different.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Every Smash game has reused assets from previous games and Melee to Brawl/Brawl to 4 still had cuts. Every Smash game before has been considered a new game. I don't see Smash Switch being any different.

I see this game reusing far more since smash 4 is so recent, I can't see them reanimating every character or anything like that when the animations they made just a few years ago are perfectly fine. I'm expecting this game to be A LOT like smash 4 both visually and gameplay wise but with new stages, modes, ui, menus, changes and updates to veterans and of course the newcomers.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Personally I'm hoping this new game reuses the physics engine from Smash 4, don't fix what isn't broken.

If this does happen, it is for that reason I expect few, if any, cuts, because then the newcomers could just be straight up ported (with buffs/nerfs of cpurse) without needing major changes to adjust to any new physics. Characters like Link are obvious exceptions however (assuming he even has a new moveset).

 

[Pazzo.]

Every time someone makes the claim Splatoon 2 is really 1.5, I delete another newcomer from 5mash.

In other news, is it a port, is it a sequel, or is it this weird term people call a "half sequel".

 

[SchAlternate]

Every time someone makes the claim Splatoon 2 is really 1.5, I delete another newcomer from 5mash.

In other news, is it a port, is it a sequel, or is it this weird term people call a "half sequel".

People like to use the term "iterative sequel", which essentially means a sequel built using most of the same engine, mechanics and assets of the predecessor; in essence, an expansion of the former game. Games like Majora's Mask, Super Mario Galaxy 2 and all sequential Mega Man games that are released on the same console are examples of iterative sequels.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

The aspect of "no cuts" I keep seeing is very odd considering we know it's a brand new game.

You're telling me that they're going to bring back all 58 characters while on top of that adding new characters, despite developing the game from scratch again. That sounds extremely unrealistic considering the circumstances.

They're not making the game from scratch. Most things definitely will be, but not the whole game, and definitely not every character.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

They're not making the game from scratch. Most things definitely will be, but not the whole game, and definitely not every character.

How can you be so sure?

 

[Roberk]

Splatoon 2's assets were built from scratch, when it comes to development it should not be looked at as a "half-sequel" or whatever.

 

[Darkraid]

Exactly. This game isn't going to be built new from the ground up and have no cuts. It's either one or the other, people are getting a bit carried away.

didn't emily rogers say smash 5 is built using smash 4's assets?

i can see why there won't be any cuts.

 

[jwillenn]

I'm often thinking about what epic battles could sound like with the right music. It's difficult to adhere to a limit on a wish list count, so I'll just post 10 I'd like to battle to for now.

Goodness knows I think "Grand Finals/Final Match" when I hear a few of these!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8pFzQ1lyF8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePypW6n1egQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtjiPtUUsUE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=301s-GDML5w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QXHW8CYeFU&t=9s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_1uYSNwJEc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-sZ_QB7ENo&t=11s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHg0tAlRUzQ&t=10s (more for a friendly sparring session, hehe)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMCfIrPbKKI
The 10th for today is some Nintendo song remixed with a beastly rap over it whose direction is to reference the history in a major way. Just as an example.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u43O6BFTKXA
except lyrically, it would approach something like Game Over (the book) in song form.

Plenty of rappers have referenced Nintendo gaming in their songs but here's a chance to have an entire song be dedicated to something relevant to Nintendo history. It could be a great addition to the soundtrack!

 

[ErenJager]

didn't emily rogers say smash 5 is built using smash 4's assets?

i can see why there won't be any cuts.

No cuts, every vet brought back.
This would be the only Smash I will ever need for life.

 

[NobleClamtasm]

I speculate that there will be a return of Melee-esque tech skill. It probably won't be a Melee 2.0, but an in-between of Smash 4 and Melee.

And for anyone who doubts this, it is very obvious that Nintendo has been pushing e-sports in their games since the Switch's launch. You see it in Pokken, Splatoon and ARMS. Do you really think Nintendo is ok with their largest e-sport (both in terms of viewership and number of entrants) being a 17 year old game? No, they'd obviously want as many people possible playing the new game. Call it delusional or wishful thinking, but if there is any logic behind the people running Nintendo, they'd be going for the Melee audience, which likely means some movement-based equivalent of wavedashing and/or dash-dancing.

 

[DLEAF]

I wouldn't mind Sakurai cutting Dark Pit, unless he gave him more than clone status.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I wouldn't mind Sakurai cutting Dark Pit, unless he gave him more than clone status.

Personally I played a lot of Dark Pit and also really enjoyed his character in Uprising. If he's cut I won't be surprised, but I will be quite disappointed.

 

[Khao]

I speculate that there will be a return of Melee-esque tech skill. It probably won't be a Melee 2.0, but an in-between of Smash 4 and Melee.

And for anyone who doubts this, it is very obvious that Nintendo has been pushing e-sports in their games since the Switch's launch. You see it in Pokken, Splatoon and ARMS. Do you really think Nintendo is ok with their largest e-sport (both in terms of viewership and number of entrants) being a 17 year old game? No, they'd obviously want as many people possible playing the new game. Call it delusional or wishful thinking, but if there is any logic behind the people running Nintendo, they'd be going for the Melee audience, which likely means some movement-based equivalent of wavedashing and/or dash-dancing.

^ I personally think this is kinda amusing, 'cause people said almost exactly the same before Sm4sh. Once it was revealed, most people's first impressions after playing demos was that it was an in-between between Brawl and Melee. During its development it also seemed like they were gonna focus on the competitive side to a lot of people.

The point is that even if this is true, don't expect them to handle things much differently. Sm4sh, arguably, was already an attempt to make the game more competitive-friendly.