Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[SuperSmashStephen]

We've been arguing about Isabelle.

Long Isabelle argument that mostly ended when some guy came in and said Isabelle(/Mimikyu) supporters were contrarian elitists. Since then, everything has been pretty chill until right now.

Oh, well I’m glad I missed that. I strongly support Isabelle, and hope she makes it on the roster. I see and understand the arguments against her, but I think the chance to make it on the roster and arguments for her inclusion are still in her favor.

I did see for a slight moment about something about a leak or new rumor. Anyone got a summary on that? Any legitimacy?

 

[BlondeLombax]

Well, there seems to be a little fervor in the thread right now, so it might be best to cool it with a quick survey, yeah?

What do you plan on doing to make the two-week road to E3 less agonizing?

I don't necessarily have anything special planned. Basically, memes, sketches, and videos is all I have on my agenda, but I think it'll be enough to hold me over.

 

[?????????????]

No seriously. What the **** dude.

-people talking about Isabelle-

Me: "Isabelle will never be a good idea to me."

You: "YEAH WELL INCINEROAR'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN MANG SO THERE!"

Oh crap I just saw this. Look, I’ll just leave for a while. I did a really ****ty thing. I’m sorry.

 

[CodeBlue_]

I can only guess by using both Mimikyu and Isabelle you are referring to me. I am a contrarian and its dumb but it is what it is. I am not an elitist and I've stated a bunch in the past that I am aware I may come across that way and I apologize for that. I like arguing and debating. Feelings and opinions are not nearly as interesting or valuable as facts and evidence to me, so I try to avoid them. Intuition is a good tool but it varies from person to person and is completely unreliable when trying to guess what Sakurai thinks, which is kinda the main/best way to speculate.

If you asked me 5 years ago if I could imagine Wii Fit Trainer's and Villager's and Duck Hunt's movement's "dancing in my head" I would have looked at you funny.


You are just throwing your opinion out there regarding Mimikyu and Isabelle. You are doing exactly what I keep trying to say is a bad idea. You are not Sakurai. You are a singular human being just as I or Sakurai or any other. Just because you can not think of a moveset does not mean I or Sakurai cannot. You say I'm elitist but then you act as if your opinion holds more weight when I try to use facts to the best of my ability as opposed to my feelings. I am so sorry.

I try very hard to be as nice as possible and try to make exceedingly clear that it is ok to have a different opinion as I do. If you quote me and I disagree I am going to respond. If you do not like that either do not quote me or say "this is the end of the debate for me." I'm gonna ask you to not call me an elitist. Thanks.

EDIT: Also, I don't defend characters because I'm a contrarian. Thats a pretty petty thing to say. It comes across as either someone agrees with you or they are just a contrarian elitist. Which seems pretty ****ing hypocritical if you ask me.

EDIT EDIT: I was fairly done with this but the more I think about it the more angry it makes me so I'm gonna say it. GOD FORBID I BRING SILLY THINGS LIKE "EVIDENCE" OR "FACTS" TO A DEBATE. Just holy hell man, the hypocrisy and elitism in your post attempting to call out MY elitism. What discussion can be had with people just blindly stating their opinions and then leaving?

EDIT EDIT EDIT OF EDITS EDITTED: Also, I very clearly have shown my doubts in Mimikyu actually being a character in Smash. Actually, I've said a lot more that I don't think Mimikyu will make it as a fighter. I really don't understand how you could possibly claim that I think Mimikyu or Isabelle are shoe-ins if you actually read 10% of my posts on here. But yeah no, contrarian elitist over here thinks hes better than everyone else because he uses ****in' facts and likes characters other people.....also like.

This was not directed towards you specifically. But apparently I struck a nerve so I'm just not going to entertain the idea anymore. In hind sight, I probably should not have directed my frustrations towards this community like I did. Sorry.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

I think a fighter who beats people by accident is about as unique and fun as it can get at this point in the series. No other character has filled this niche.

Objection: A character with all, or nearly all, accidental attacks would be absurd and probably fail to represent her character because an extended combo of "accidents" would come off as disingenuous. Additionally, for small showings, you already see them in movesets, as it Villager's dash attack or Luigi's down taunt and, for more accident-dense movesets, there's an option that would work much better:

Spoiler: Exhibit A

Disclaimer: I've never actually played an Ace Attourney game, I just like his style in UMvC3

 

[Murlough]

Well, there seems to be a little fervor in the thread right now, so it might be best to cool it with a quick survey, yeah?

What do you plan on doing to make the two-week road to E3 less agonizing?

I don't necessarily have anything special planned. Basically, memes, sketches, and videos is all I have on my agenda, but I think it'll be enough to hold me over.

Playing Blazblue Cross Tag Battle and watching YouTube videos when I'm not working.

This was not directed towards you specifically. But apparently I struck a nerve so I'm just not going to entertain the idea anymore. In hind sight, I probably should not have directed my frustrations towards this community like I did. Sorry.

Then we good. Thank you for apologizing.

Objection: A character with all, or nearly all, accidental attacks would be absurd and probably fail to represent her character because an extended combo of "accidents" would come off as disingenuous. Additionally, for small showings, you already see them in movesets, as it Villager's dash attack or Luigi's down taunt and, for more accident-dense movesets, there's an option that would work much better:

Spoiler: Exhibit A

Disclaimer: I've never actually played an Ace Attourney game, I just like his style in UMvC3

OK, I respect your opinion, but at the end of the day it is an opinion. I think watching a character accidentally combo another character would be hilarious, fun, and unique at least for Smash. It represents her being timid and not really a competent fighter considering her pacifist nature.

OK, we see serious sword characters who are humanoid (I'm using a very specific character style to counter your argument. I'm very tired so this may be terrible or unclear.) repeatedly. There are whole characters based on this specific feel. (there is no way this is a good argument but once again I'm tired and can't think of a better one RN.) What we have to compare this idea for Isabelle's move-set are two moves. I really don't see the problem.

I don't know anything about Pheonix Wright or MVC but if he also has an "accidental" fighting style then there are already characters that do what I'm saying in more serious fighting games.

EDIT: watched the vid and it was funny. I don't follow why you don't think this shouldn't be in Smash. I hope they don't add Isabelle sneezing on people at least xD

IMPORTANT EDIT: OK, I finally understand what you were saying. Phoenix Wright may incorporate that idea better but from what I understand Isabelle is easier to get into Smash than Pheonix Wright. Even if they do get Phoenix: why not both? Why does it have to be one or the other?

 

[Zinith]

Well, there seems to be a little fervor in the thread right now, so it might be best to cool it with a quick survey, yeah?

What do you plan on doing to make the two-week road to E3 less agonizing?

I don't necessarily have anything special planned. Basically, memes, sketches, and videos is all I have on my agenda, but I think it'll be enough to hold me over.

My patience is legendary, I'll just go with the flow

 

[Luminario]

@ everyone who is in favor of Isabelle... Why do you want to see her?

I love Isabelle (I even got the Nendoroid), but when I see her, "playable in Smash" is the last thing that comes to my mind, to the point that I never considered it could happen. All this Isabelle talk reads off as justifications for her being in instead of genuine wishes to see her playable.
I still haven't seen any argument that makes her stand out as a fighter or convince me that she would be fun/unique. Of all the character suggestions/wants I've seen, she's by far the most boring.

I just like her as a character, so I want her to be playable. Do anyone really need a better reason for wanting a character in Smash?
Out of curiosity, what do you find boring about her moveset suggestions so far? We don't really have a trapper since Snake went MIA so Issy could easily fill that role, and no one does terraforming. Looking at all the things in AC brings forth good inspiration too.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Unrelated topic, but how likely do you guys think it is that we'll get more character costumes in this game. I'm talking, like, Alph or Koopalings.

If Captain Toad happens, I feel like Captain Toadette is a given, but I'm not really sure about any other ones.

Can't say for sure but I hope so. It was a pretty cool idea and I hope it sees fruition.

Personally, I hope the Koopalings treatment is given to Dry Bowser at some point. Imagine a hulking skeleton with horrifying roars coupled with blue fire breath beating the **** out of puppies and kids with a baseball bat. That **** is what makes Smash entertaining.

 

[One winged Devil]

This is actually an older leak from earlier in the week that had been "answered" by the original "leaker".

1. Ice Climbers
2. Mimikyu
3. Elma
4. Chorus Kids
5. Takamaru
6. Dixie Kong
7. Wolf
8. Ridley
9. K. Rool
10. Medusa
11. Porky Minch
12. Samurai Goroh
13. Simon Belmont
14. Sora
15. Geno & Mallow (yes, both together)
16. Snake

With the theme being "heroes and villains".

Wait where was this posted and went was this posted?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Yeah. I don't think anyone needs more than ''I like this character" to support them being in Smash.

I know I am exceptionally harsh on Daisy, but I can at least understand that her fans want her because she's you know her.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah. I don't think anyone needs more than ''I like this character" to support them being in Smash.

I know I am exceptionally harsh on Daisy, but I can at least understand that her fans want her because she's you know her.

Couldn't agree more. We may view Isabelle's chances differently, but it doesn't mean people wanting them simply for the fact they like them to be any less valid of a reason than things like moveset potential. I can't think of other good comparisons, but you get the idea.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Well everyone keep in mind "wanting a character" doesn't exactly translate to "this character is likely", which is what I've seen a lot of everyone parading.

 

[monadoboy]

I just like her as a character, so I want her to be playable. Do anyone really need a better reason for wanting a character in Smash?
Out of curiosity, what do you find boring about her moveset suggestions so far? We don't really have a trapper since Snake went MIA so Issy could easily fill that role, and no one does terraforming. Looking at all the things in AC brings forth good inspiration too.

Personally, I don't really want all the characters I like to be playable. I adore Latios, for example, he's my second favorite Pokemon by a big margin, but I can see how he'd be clunky and/or terribly represented, so I wouldn't want him playable at all. He's better as a Pokeball summon. Same with Skull Kid, Riki, Tora, Zoroark and Isabelle, to name a few.
Isabelle being a trapper sounds kinda unfitting, and other characters could do that role much, much better. Terraforming is also something that many other characters would do better, while not feeling slightly forced. Those concepts are good, just not for Isabelle. A clumsy fighter is not really something unique, as it is only aesthetic in nature.
Animal Crossing representation should focus on stages, in my opinion.

 

[KingBroly]

Wait where was this posted and went was this posted?

It's sort of a guesstimation thing. Someone posted an imgur link to 16 images on reddit

https://imgur.com/a/H8bcips

I've seen some suggest the Simon Belmont one is Dillon, that the Ghost is Boo, Mimikyu or Decidueye. I also think the Key Ring one is supposed to be Klefki, but only because I don't think Sora gets in. And 12 might be Ray from Custom Robo, not Samurai Goroh.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

The Isabelle discussion is going to be quiet interesting in hindsight if she ends up being revealed at E3.

 

[Zerp]

That reminds me, does anyone know if the leak with the hint images has anything backing it up or is there no evidence for it?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Unrelated topic, but how likely do you guys think it is that we'll get more character costumes in this game. I'm talking, like, Alph or Koopalings.

If Captain Toad happens, I feel like Captain Toadette is a given, but I'm not really sure about any other ones.

- Odyssey wedding costumes
- naked/underwear
Lyn/Celica - Heroes alts
- Boom Sonic
- intro fancy clothes
- Detective
- Lobster shirt
- Eddie the Yeti
- MK8 variants
- Hyrule Warriors
- Beard

 

[KingBroly]

That reminds me, does anyone know if the leak with the hint images has anything backing it up or is there no evidence for it?

I don't believe there's anything backing it up. It might be a leak from a Journalist who knows, or a complete fabrication for all we know.

- Odyssey wedding costumes
- naked/underwear
Lyn/Celica - Heroes alts
- Boom Sonic
- intro fancy clothes
- Detective
- Lobster shirt
- Eddie the Yeti
- MK8 variants
- Hyrule Warriors
- Beard

Pikachu Libre.

 

[Roberk]

Well, there seems to be a little fervor in the thread right now, so it might be best to cool it with a quick survey, yeah?

What do you plan on doing to make the two-week road to E3 less agonizing?

I don't necessarily have anything special planned. Basically, memes, sketches, and videos is all I have on my agenda, but I think it'll be enough to hold me over.

Still have school for two more weeks

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

My whole piece on the whole "it's not in Isabelle's character to fight" and "I can't see myself hurting Isabelle" arguments is a similar viewpoint I have to Baby Mario - I simply don't care.

If you do care about it, that's fine. More power to you, it's your opinion and you're free to express it. I... really couldn't care less if Isabelle being in Smash damages her character or not. I don't care if liberties would need to be taken to have her playable. If she's fun and unique, then that's all that matters to me. And that goes for literally every other candidate for the playable roster too.

My philosophy is and always has been that being fun to play as should take priority over everything else.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

I think people are getting a little too caught up in the idea that characters have to justify themselves through some fantastic and unique moveset. One of the basic appeals of Smash Bros is getting to play as your favourite characters. Period.

Even if Isabelle doesn’t have some mind-blowing angle to her moveset, fans of her and Animal Crossing will be happy to have her. Isn’t that what’s most important?

 

[Pakky]

Can we post that Imgur leak or no?

 

[MopedOfJustice]

I think people are getting a little too caught up in the idea that characters have to justify themselves through some fantastic and unique moveset. One of the basic appeals of Smash Bros is getting to play as your favourite characters. Period.

Even if Isabelle doesn’t have some mind-blowing angle to her moveset, fans of her and Animal Crossing will be happy to have her. Isn’t that what’s most important?

Personally I'd prefer a game that had original characters with no history but was mechanically engaging over a game based exclusively in slapping popular faces onto things, but I realize that that's a false dichotomy and, even if it wasn't, I'd be in the minority.

Can we post that Imgur leak or no?

It's already been posted at least twice in this thread

 

[MrRoidley]

I don't know about you guys, but the idea of Isabelle KOing enemies with a huge beaming cute smile in her face is absolutely appealing to me.

Well, there seems to be a little fervor in the thread right now, so it might be best to cool it with a quick survey, yeah?

What do you plan on doing to make the two-week road to E3 less agonizing?

I don't necessarily have anything special planned. Basically, memes, sketches, and videos is all I have on my agenda, but I think it'll be enough to hold me over.

Hmm working on university stuff would be first (unless if the university goes on strike which is likely), so I'll probably go on working on music and youtube stuff. Plus, of course, speculate/fantasize about E3 like always. And definitely, play some games!

 

[Pakky]

It's sort of a guesstimation thing. Someone posted an imgur link to 16 images on reddit

https://imgur.com/a/H8bcips

I've seen some suggest the Simon Belmont one is Dillon, that the Ghost is Boo, Mimikyu or Decidueye. I also think the Key Ring one is supposed to be Klefki, but only because I don't think Sora gets in. And 12 might be Ray from Custom Robo, not Samurai Goroh.

Here's what I think


- Ice Climbers/ Obvious

- Mimkyu/ That's a sheet ghost, not an owl

- Llyod Irving, Elma, or Rex and Pyra / Two blades?

- Chorus Kids/ That's a sing chours

- Takamaru/ Samurai with a top knot

- Dixie Kong/ Bubble gum gun

- Wolf/ That's a wolf

-Ridley/ He looked like a Furby in Other M

- Captain K Rool/King K Rool/ That's a blunderbuss

- Medusa / That's what the head is

- Porky/ A fat genius dependant on tech, then again it could be Eggman

- N/A (Ray from custom Robo) / Ray MKII as in manta ray also its a decal used for customizing cars and boats

-Simon Belmont/ Vanhelsing is a vampire hunter

- Sora?/ Who else uses keys?

- Geno/ The only puppet anyone cares about

-Labo, Snake, or Steve/ Boxes or cardboard is the question

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I don't believe there's anything backing it up. It might be a leak from a Journalist who knows, or a complete fabrication for all we know.



Pikachu Libre.

Can’t belive I forgot about the great Luchachu

 

[MrRoidley]

It's sort of a guesstimation thing. Someone posted an imgur link to 16 images on reddit

https://imgur.com/a/H8bcips

I've seen some suggest the Simon Belmont one is Dillon, that the Ghost is Boo, Mimikyu or Decidueye. I also think the Key Ring one is supposed to be Klefki, but only because I don't think Sora gets in. And 12 might be Ray from Custom Robo, not Samurai Goroh.

This is definitely fake lol but it seems to be a fun guessing game so I'll just do it for fun lmao

Spoiler: My guesses

1. Ice Climbers
2. Mimikyu
3. Elma
4. Chorus Kids
5. Takamaru
6. Bubbles
7. Wolf
8. Ridley
9. ...Jeanne???? wow I really don't know this one, ppl have been saying K. Rool but I don't associate him with guns
10. Style Savvy (well Versace is a clothing brand)
11. Octoling????
12. Ray actually scratch that Endless Ocean rep
13. Dillon
14. Sora
15. Geno
16. Labo rep

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

It's sort of a guesstimation thing. Someone posted an imgur link to 16 images on reddit

https://imgur.com/a/H8bcips

I've seen some suggest the Simon Belmont one is Dillon, that the Ghost is Boo, Mimikyu or Decidueye. I also think the Key Ring one is supposed to be Klefki, but only because I don't think Sora gets in. And 12 might be Ray from Custom Robo, not Samurai Goroh.

Might as well give it a try, while still believing Simon and Ridley will get in:

-Ice Climbers, obviously it's two people climbing a mountain.
-Mimikyu, for the disguise.
-Elma, double sword.
-Chorus Men, for the choir (lol)
-Takamaru, a Samurai.
-Balloon Fighter, for the bubble looking like a balloon (I don't know many characters with bubbles so that's my guess)
-Wolf, because... It's a wolf.
-Ridley, cuz it's baby Ridley.
-Inklings, for the gun.
-Versace sells clothes, and who else sells clothes?

-Porky, fat and machine-reliant character.
-Ray MK III, for the sting ray.
-Simon.
-Sora. Keyblade.
-Geno. Puppet.
-Something Labo related. Cardboards.

However many things make me think it's fake, specifically the labo character heavily implied.
Way too late for it to be considered.
Or they focused on adding him the past two months.

 

[Zippo]

Well, there seems to be a little fervor in the thread right now, so it might be best to cool it with a quick survey, yeah?

What do you plan on doing to make the two-week road to E3 less agonizing?

I don't necessarily have anything special planned. Basically, memes, sketches, and videos is all I have on my agenda, but I think it'll be enough to hold me over.

Got some backlog games to play through. I'm getting my Master's on Friday, so celebrating that with family and friends, then it's two weeks of vacation time.

Also, Mario Tennis Aces tournament next weekend, see y'all on the court!

 

[MopedOfJustice]

The actual answers for the list was posted just a couple pages back... We have enough lists on this thread without promoting attention-hungry "leakers" playing Pictionary with stock photos

 

[One winged Devil]

I love everyone saying it's fake without actual proof.

Gonna love Smash Bros Fans.

#Norallsmashfans

 

[Pakky]

The actual answers for the list was posted just a couple pages back... We have enough lists on this thread without promoting attention-hungry "leakers" playing Pictionary with stock photos

Got a link? can't find it.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

I love everyone saying it's fake without actual proof.

Gonna love Smash Bros Fans.

#Norallsmashfans

My uncle's friend's dog works at Nintendo and he says it's fake because the only other newcomer is Shrek.
Or would you have me provide hard evidence on a game that hasn't come out yet? It's a fanservice-y roster that is exponentially larger than any single leak that has previously turned out to be true, and the guy who leaked it provided an answer key. There is nothing that makes this credible and nothing that makes it distinguishable from any other nonsense leak other than that is tries substantially harder to get attention by feigning obscurity.

Got a link? can't find it.

This is actually an older leak from earlier in the week that had been "answered" by the original "leaker".

1. Ice Climbers
2. Mimikyu
3. Elma
4. Chorus Kids
5. Takamaru
6. Dixie Kong
7. Wolf
8. Ridley
9. K. Rool
10. Medusa
11. Porky Minch
12. Samurai Goroh
13. Simon Belmont
14. Sora
15. Geno & Mallow (yes, both together)
16. Snake

With the theme being "heroes and villains".

[Not a proper quote to avoid pinging golden, but it was on page 1217.]

 

[Pakky]

My uncle's friend's dog works at Nintendo and he says it's fake because the only other newcomer is Shrek.
Or would you have me provide hard evidence on a game that hasn't come out yet? It's a fanservice-y roster that is exponentially larger than any single leak that has previously turned out to be true, and the guy who leaked it provided an answer key. There is nothing that makes this credible and nothing that makes it distinguishable from any other nonsense leak other than that is tries substantially harder to get attention by feigning obscurity.






[Not a proper quote to avoid pinging golden, but I think it was on page 1217

Thank you :D

Didn't know Goroh's machine was called the fire string ray, lol.

 

[StrangeMann]

Gamefaqs Smash Switch board user Jeff_Mercer (Sunny) claims to have an inside source for Smash Bros Switch at E3, and teases potential newcomers:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-for-nintendo-switch/76647008
Not 100% sure on this but they do daily posts called "Rate their Chances" and has a pinned message about leak compilation so I believe they are a moderator but I am not familiar with gamefaqs management.

 

[Pacack]

- naked/underwear

I was going to say that Pit didn't have official shirtless art, but he apparently does.

Spoiler

I you're looking for any other fanservice-y stuff for male characters, then the following characters have appeared shirtless in-game before:
*

*Ness actually appears entirely nude in a dream sequence in the Japanese version of Earthbound, but this was changed to pajamas in the localized versions.

- Hyrule Warriors

Aside from that, I'd also definitely have Link's Tunic of the Wild, and I would heavily consider OoT, TP, and SS Zelda and OoT Ganondorf.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

Personally I'd prefer a game that had original characters with no history but was mechanically engaging over a game based exclusively in slapping popular faces onto things, but I realize that that's a false dichotomy and, even if it wasn't, I'd be in the minority

Obviously there needs to be some balance. Mechanics are what make the game fun to play after all.

But the point of the game is to celebrate Nintendo, so being able to have those beloved/popular fighters wins out for me, even if every character can’t be made flashy or unique.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Gamefaqs Smash Switch board user Jeff_Mercer (Sunny) claims to have an inside source for Smash Bros Switch at E3, and teases potential newcomers:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-for-nintendo-switch/76647008
Not 100% sure on this but they do daily posts called "Rate their Chances" and has a pinned message about leak compilation so I believe they are a moderator but I am not familiar with gamefaqs management.

I love how he immediately gets more ****posts than serious replies. If he wanted to be taken seriously, he should have tried a more original scam.

 

[MrRoidley]

I love everyone saying it's fake without actual proof.

Gonna love Smash Bros Fans.

#Norallsmashfans

Well after years of Smash being bombarded with fake rumors and the like, it's just natural to be very skeptical lol