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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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NeonBurrito

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If Smash 5 were to take a Splatoon-esqe approach to DLC, I'd be fine with it, as long as it doesn't mean they skimp out on the base game stuff.

Both Splatoon and Splatoon 2 were really light on any sort of content for the first month or so of their lifespans, and really only begun to hit their strides upon getting a few more stages, some more game modes, and a considerable amount of weapons and clothing options.

As long as Smash has a decent amount of content at the start of the game, I'd be more than fine with it. But if it means we're getting a 20 character roster at launch? No thanks.
 

RandomAce

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Honestly? I'm kinda thinking they're gonna go the Splatoon / ARMS route and, instead of DLC, they give us free updates to the roster, stages, items, assists, etc. I feel reforming Smash into a "service" deal would be a good way to take the franchise. Plus, it provides a good way to keep the Smash hype train going.

Additionally, I've seen a few people have concerns about this game releasing early into the console's lifespan, and as such we won't get very much current-gen representation in the characters, stages, items, etc. because, well, we have few things to base current representation on. Through this method however, we could get new content from upcoming Switch titles as they release.

Makes perfect sense imo
Although I could see a service type model for this Smash game, I don’t think the DLC will be free. The reason why ARMS did it was because it was a new IP that needed to get some footing. However, Smash has a lot of work that goes into its characters and stages so they’ll obviously come at a price, and hopefully a lower one too.

NeonBurrito NeonBurrito : Seeing as how this game is pretty early into it’s life span I could see this Smash’s base roster focusing on fan favorites from the ballot and lesser known IPs and bring them to the spot light. While DLC can focus on more relevant characters and stages from more recent switch titles.

This way the base roster will have a pretty healthy line up from the start by including ballot picks and franchise like Golden Sun which people seem to have been asking for in the Smash fan base, while DLC can just expand on it by including the relevant characters.

This of course is just speculation.
 
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Scoliosis Jones

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Thinking back to the talking points in regards to the Splatoon/ARMS/Overwatch model being applied to Smash, most of the responses are thus far "they could easily charge and make money". That's true, but they could easily do it with other games. Blizzard could have done it, but it seems that the industry is learning from the ****ty tactics of EA and other companies.

I think there's a chance this could work for a Smash game that is out within 2 years of this console releasing. I think Nintendo would be foolish to not use this Smash to experiment with it and get some up to date characters in it as well.

Frankly, I think this Smash could be the longest living one if they do things that way. It also contributes to a more lax development cycle, as characters don't entirely need to be finished prior to launch. Nintendo could charge for particular assets like characters, but if they didn't, it could easily draw in more players or keep them coming back...similar to how I am planning on coming back to Splatoon for the Octo Expansion, and how I come back to Overwatch from time to time.

Granted, with Overwatch, there are ways for Blizzard to make more money in loot boxes. Smash wouldn't have that same ability.

Frankly I just would like this business strategy because it would allow the dev team to add newer content over time.

Imagine the game comes out with say, 8 newcomers, maybe a few cuts, etc. After a few months, they drop a character or two, maybe one new, one vet. Once in awhile a stage drops.

However, if it's substantial content or from a 3rd party, they'd charge for it. Or better yet, allow you to buy it or unlock it. Similar to the Overwatch model.

Considering I am very interested in newer characters like Rex & Pyra and Spring Man, I think this would be a great way to add them to the game even after the base roster (if they aren't already there) and not waiting several years to do it.
 

TheLastJinjo

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As for Excitebiker, Sakurai technically didn't give a proper reason as to what Excitebiker's issue was, but I and many others always interpreted the issue as him having trouble picturing a playable fighter who is always riding a vehicle, which I feel is a logical conclusion. Maybe Sakurai doesn't think including Excitebiker would be a problem anymore, and while I think that is a possibility I still have my doubts.
I mean Bowser Jr was literally added in the last game. Not even four years ago. You could try to say it's not the same thing because Bowser Jr has gadgets and what not, but the problem of simply riding a vehicle should not be an issue and should not be dismissed because it's never been done before.

Our imagination is pathetic in comparison to Sakurai who has been doing this since 1998. And I'm not using that as a cop out to say literally any character can work without me having to back it up, but I can easily provide a demonstration of how easy it is to make Excitebike work if you want. You seem interested in the idea so I think it'd be fun. I'll do that in a moment.

We've seen Sakurai add characters he's dismissed before, but they usually end up getting reconsidered and included in the very next installment, and while I'm not saying they haven't been seriously reconsidered there has been no sign of that being the case after all of these years.
If your argument is that they haven't been added after all these years, then you have to include Takamaru in that argument.

With all of that said I don't have a good enough reason to be as confident in either of their inclusions as you are. I'd love to be wrong though, I think Excitebiker could be a very fun addition if done properly, and I'd be cool with Ballon Fighter too (though if we got a fighter who utilizes balloons I'd rather it be Tingle lol).
Characters and moves change all the time. I'm not placing my bets on Balloon Fighter, but it seems like he'd try to make before choosing Takamaru. I was just throwing out all of the possibilities because people act like Takamaru is just common sense. It's ironic because that's what everyone thought last time and it didn't happen. And they were the same people who said a boxer wouldn't provide an interesting move set and you couldn't have characters fighting a dog.

I also wasn't trying to slam dunk you, I was asking a genuine question. Do you think you look cool making assumptions like that, or what?
Nah, I was just salty because I felt like the refutation was obvious.
 

Murlough

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I just hope people realize there is a gigantic difference between cutting content to sell later and, post-release, deciding "hey, this character is cool. Let's add them in as DLC." One is scummy and the other is not.

I personally really dislike the free post-game content thing. The idea is cool but workers should be paid for their work. It also feels like this luxury quickly has become an expectation for some people. Just because a company does paid DLC does not mean they are scummy. It's how they came about developing the paid content that makes it potentially scummy.

I want Smash 5 to live a long lifespan, too. If they decide that since we are paying for online services they will give us free DLC then I'm cool with that. We shouldn't expect free labor though, especially with the ever increasing costs of developing games, mans gotta eat.
 

Roberk

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Isabelle can work as a fighter. Pretty much anybody can, that’s the point of Smash. But the question is, should Isabelle be a fighter? What fits her more, being an assistive NPC or dunking it out on the battlefield?

Yes, there are exceptions on the roster already, but for the most part the cast is made up of playable characters who use traditional combat mechanics in their games. If not, the exceptions mostly have easily recognizable gameplay potential. Isabelle shouldn’t be clinging onto exceptions for why she’s fit for Smash, it’s just not a strong argument. Most movesets for Isabelle have reasonings for her fighting, but these are defensive and aren’t contributing to Isabelle’s own merit. Workarounds, exceptions, “no guys, it’ll work!” Isabelle really only has the terraforming moveset that Sakurai would have to mostly make up, it won’t be easy to pull everything from the games, when it comes to gameplay Isabelle has a lot going against her.

Being an assist trophy fits Isabelle much better on a character and gameplay level. There would be much work and many excuses need to make Isabelle a fighter.
 

TMNTSSB4

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I've heard that before and....I dunno. I don't really like it because no other character gets that option but at the same time Dark Pit is so easy to make that I feel like a jerk for caring and asking for him to be removed.

I say either keep him the way he is or make him a semi-clone of Pit.
I think it would add more specialty to the Kid Icarus crew competitive and casual wise. If they were to have different specials, make the custom moves based on different weapons (like how Palutena has her entire special moveset based on the powers Pit uses in Uprising)
 

RandomAce

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Imagine the game comes out with say, 8 newcomers, maybe a few cuts, etc. After a few months, they drop a character or two, maybe one new, one vet. Once in awhile a stage drops.
Although I do agree that by having some of the first part characters be free and a free service model allowing the devs to work more on characters without worrying about a launch date. I think it’s neccessary for this games base roster to also deliver a healthy amount.

Seeing how this game has 2+ years of development and is reusing Smash 4 as a base, I think the dev team is more than capable of getting at least 12 characters for the base roster.

Having a low number of newcomers like 8 will get some backlash since people might think that some of the characters are being left as DLC and that there should’ve been enough development time, considering the circumstances, to add enough for the base roster.

Plus having a low number of newcomers can be dissapointing to many.
 
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?????????????

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Isabelle can work as a fighter. Pretty much anybody can, that’s the point of Smash. But the question is, should Isabelle be a fighter?
My belief is...

If the character is particularly interesting, or people just like them...

YES.

If there are people who have the idea, like the idea, and want the idea...why deny the possibility!?
 

MopedOfJustice

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My belief is...

If the character is particularly interesting, or people just like them...

YES.

If there are people who have the idea, like the idea, and want the idea...why deny the possibility!?
It reminds me of years ago when some people were talking about how the Happy Mask Salesman would be a good addition (though not likely given all the other LoZ characters who would come first). Cool character, but being a fighter just doesn't make that much sense. I don't have an opinion on Isabella because I've never played AC, but I think in general it's a valid argument that the character can't be represented well in this capacity and would be better-served in another.
Something that I think Smash has really missed out on cashing in on is the use of NPCs outside of stages and ATs. I think it would be great, if the trophy store made a return, it was run by merchant characters from Nintendo franchises. I don't know if that would suit her specifically, but something like that could be a fun way of incorporating characters that otherwise might just live in the background of a stage or a trophy collection at best.
 

Tree Gelbman

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I've said most of my piece, but it's just highly ironic to me that everyone around here knows that Sakurai himself has said he's reached a point where he's struggling to find iconic Nintendo characters to add because IPs are coming out so slowly.

And here we have one of the most iconic created Nintendo characters in a while and people want to limit her to a non fighter on their own notions.

Like I was under the assumption we all wanted Nintendo's brightest to be represented as fighters. Isabelle is clearly amongst them. More so than perhaps anyone introduced in the Modern Nintendo era that's not the Inklings.

''Here's this all-star but since she's an assistant. She clearly shouldn't fight. She should assist. Who cares if she's popular, has potential, etc. I don't want to beat her up, she's too nice, she's never a fighter, it's different if she's in Monster Hunter or Mario Kart, etc, etc."

It just sounds really silly to me to dismiss someone so popular so easily.
 
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?????????????

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I’m speaking as someone who, not too many years ago, completely dismissed Rosalina and Palutena as good choices because I believed it wouldn’t fit them.

I said they were “guide characters,” and “never part of the real action,” and “would be better supports.”

And I was wrong.

I COMPLETELY missed the part where they were good characters with their own merits that people loved them for, and genuinely wanted the ability to play as them!
 

Murlough

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I've said most of my piece, but it's just highly ironic to me that everyone around here knows that Sakurai himself has said he's reached a point where he's struggling to find iconic Nintendo characters to add because IPs are coming out so slowly.

And here we have one of the most iconic created Nintendo characters in a while and people want to limit her to a non fighter on their own notions.

Like I was under the assumption we all wanted Nintendo's brightest to be represented as fighters. Isabelle is clearly amongst them. More so than perhaps anyone introduced in the Modern Nintendo era that's not the Inklings.

''Here's this all-star but since she's an assistant. She clearly shouldn't fight. She should assist. Who cares if she's popular, has potential, etc. I don't want to beat her up, she's too nice, she's never a fighter, it's different if she's in Monster Hunter or Mario Kart, etc, etc."

It just sounds really silly to me to dismiss someone so popular so easily.
Nah, instead of excepting this argument and opposing viewpoint, I'm just gonna call you out for daring to bring plebeian things like "facts" or "evidence" to this thread about discussion and speculation.You are a contrarian, because you support a character I personally do not see potential in, and an elitist, for the aforementioned "facts" and "evidence." /s

I am absolutely not upset at being called that by some random guy on the internet.

My belief is...

If the character is particularly interesting, or people just like them...

YES.

If there are people who have the idea, like the idea, and want the idea...why deny the possibility!?
This is absolutely the best way to go about wanting characters in Smash. If you try to look at things this way you will rarely be disappointed in who is included and we wouldn't be held back by dumb stuff like "well I don't like it so it shouldn't happen." Because that is how exciting and interesting things happen. :glare:
 
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Tree Gelbman

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I mean I was told I was condescending and aggressive earlier in this very thread.

I don't feel as if I was either.

Passionate, maybe? Either of those? No.
 

Godzillathewonderdog

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the problem of simply riding a vehicle should not be an issue and should not be dismissed because it's never been done before. Our imagination is pathetic in comparison to Sakurai who has been doing this since 1998. And I'm not using that as a cop out to say literally any character can work without me having to back it up, but I can easily provide a demonstration of how easy it is to make Excitebike work if you want. You seem interested in the idea so I think it'd be fun. I'll do that in a moment.
Ok, but you don't get to decide that. I could say that a character like Ridley being large should not be dismissed because it's never been done before, that doesn't mean Sakurai agrees. Sakurai couldn't come up with a way to make Ridley fit in, nor could he think of a way to make characters like Chrom or Urban Champion interesting, despite so many people providing ways on how they could fit in and be interesting. It's kind of subjective, so just because you or I think of a way a character would be a good fitting unique fighter doesn't mean Sakurai will see it the same way. I also have seen a way it can work on Source Gaming's website, and I think it's fitting and would be super awesome; I'm just doubtful Sakurai will feel the same way, but I hope I'm wrong.

If your argument is that they haven't been added after all these years, then you have to include Takamaru in that argument.
I would, but the only issue Sakurai had with including Takamaru may have been addressed, thanks to having more exposure in the west since the roster of Smash 4 was initially decided in 2012. He was a part of Nintendo Land, got his game released world wide, and received a role in Smash as an assist trophy and a DLC Mii costume, plus the demand for him has grown quite a bit since 2012. Wheather or not this will be enough for Sakurai to finally include him has yet to be seen, but he's in a better situation now than before. Sure Balloon Fight and Excitebike have gotten a bit more exposure since then as well, but they still have their own issues regarding implementation in game that haven't been addressed.

Characters and moves change all the time. I'm not placing my bets on Balloon Fighter, but it seems like he'd try to make before choosing Takamaru. I was just throwing out all of the possibilities because people act like Takamaru is just common sense. It's ironic because that's what everyone thought last time and it didn't happen. And they were the same people who said a boxer wouldn't provide an interesting move set and you couldn't have characters fighting a dog.
I personally always felt Little Mac and the Duck Hunt Dog would be unique fitting fighters, and I'm not really confident in Takamaru, but I do think he is one of the more likely retro characters alongside Mach Rider.
 

MoonlitIllusion

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Imagine the game comes out with say, 8 newcomers, maybe a few cuts, etc. After a few months, they drop a character or two, maybe one new, one vet. Once in awhile a stage drops.
Yeah...for 2 years worth of work I'd be extremely disappointed if this was the outcome tbh. I'd like a smash game's worth of content at launch and then they can add stuff later, free or not
 
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Roberk

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It reminds me of years ago when some people were talking about how the Happy Mask Salesman would be a good addition (though not likely given all the other LoZ characters who would come first). Cool character, but being a fighter just doesn't make that much sense. I don't have an opinion on Isabella because I've never played AC, but I think in general it's a valid argument that the character can't be represented well in this capacity and would be better-served in another.
Something that I think Smash has really missed out on cashing in on is the use of NPCs outside of stages and ATs. I think it would be great, if the trophy store made a return, it was run by merchant characters from Nintendo franchises. I don't know if that would suit her specifically, but something like that could be a fun way of incorporating characters that otherwise might just live in the background of a stage or a trophy collection at best.
That's a great idea, the idea of Anna being playable has made its rounds in speculation but I think she, and others like her, fit other functions like being a merchant better.

I've said most of my piece, but it's just highly ironic to me that everyone around here knows that Sakurai himself has said he's reached a point where he's struggling to find iconic Nintendo characters to add because IPs are coming out so slowly.

And here we have one of the most iconic created Nintendo characters in a while and people want to limit her to a non fighter on their own notions.

Like I was under the assumption we all wanted Nintendo's brightest to be represented as fighters. Isabelle is clearly amongst them. More so than perhaps anyone introduced in the Modern Nintendo era that's not the Inklings.

''Here's this all-star but since she's an assistant. She clearly shouldn't fight. She should assist. Who cares if she's popular, has potential, etc. I don't want to beat her up, she's too nice, she's never a fighter, it's different if she's in Monster Hunter or Mario Kart, etc, etc."

It just sounds really silly to me to dismiss someone so popular so easily.
I don't think anyone is dismissing Isabelle. I, at least, am trying to look at her holistically. It would suck if the speculation community locked onto a character that was stellar in some aspects (relevancy, popularity, etc.) but that character didn't make it in because of other factors as well (gameplay, proper representation, etc.). I don't doubt that Isabelle is a true modern All-Star, but everything should be refuted and thoroughly discussed as to not be completely blindsided and disappointed. Just because people are coming up with arguments against her doesn't mean that they are merely dismissing her, they are actually generating discussion which is the opposite of completely dismissing a character.
 

Luminario

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Your guess is as good as mine
Isabelle can work as a fighter. Pretty much anybody can, that’s the point of Smash. But the question is, should Isabelle be a fighter? What fits her more, being an assistive NPC or dunking it out on the battlefield?

Yes, there are exceptions on the roster already, but for the most part the cast is made up of playable characters who use traditional combat mechanics in their games. If not, the exceptions mostly have easily recognizable gameplay potential. Isabelle shouldn’t be clinging onto exceptions for why she’s fit for Smash, it’s just not a strong argument. Most movesets for Isabelle have reasonings for her fighting, but these are defensive and aren’t contributing to Isabelle’s own merit. Workarounds, exceptions, “no guys, it’ll work!” Isabelle really only has the terraforming moveset that Sakurai would have to mostly make up, it won’t be easy to pull everything from the games, when it comes to gameplay Isabelle has a lot going against her.

Being an assist trophy fits Isabelle much better on a character and gameplay level. There would be much work and many excuses need to make Isabelle a fighter.
Did y'all have these kinda of hang-ups about WFT's inclusion? or Rosalina's? or Zelda's? You're right in that Isabelle could be passed up due to her pacifism and the peaceful nature of AC, and that would be a decision I would endlessly criticize Sakurai for making, but that's pretty much the only hurdle here. The accidental fighter thing isn't even that important, it's just in response to you lot saying she can't get in cause she's too peaceful.

The terraforming thing is also just one idea for her moveset, she could also weaponise the various emotions from the game(with animations and effects they could rip right from AC itself), there's the party poppers, toy hammers, glow wands, bubble blowers, various office equipment, she could even call on the other AC characters to help her out, it's so easy to make a moveset for her.

Also, Isabelle is where you lot draw the line for characters you can attack? But beating the **** out of children and animals is fair game? I adore Isabelle but once she gets into Smash she's getting smacked off-screen with no hesitation.
 

Tree Gelbman

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It's the reasons they're coming up against her that ring hollow.

Nothing said holds any weight against her. And that's my problem with it. The dismal of her based on these things being said against her is my issue. If they felt like they had any weight or relevance as to why Sakurai might actually not pick her. It'd be okay.

But none of them feel true or as if they'd be things he'd even remotely consider when thinking about holding back a character. Because he's either proven them wrong or just doesn't make sense with what know from the current roster selection.
 

SmashChu

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Thinking back to the talking points in regards to the Splatoon/ARMS/Overwatch model being applied to Smash, most of the responses are thus far "they could easily charge and make money". That's true, but they could easily do it with other games. Blizzard could have done it, but it seems that the industry is learning from the ****ty tactics of EA and other companies..
Let me help you here and explain why it would work and what Nintendo gains from it.

In Nintendo's most recent financial briefing, they noted two way they are going to drive the install base. The first its new titles, the second was encouraging longer play of a single title. Here is what they had to say in regards to Splatoon (see pg 5)

We are providing more downloadable content and hosting events that build excitement for our games to give consumers a fresh sense of enjoyment and extend the time they spend playing the titles they have purchased. The way Splatoon 2 is being played in Japan is an example of how efforts on the game software side can also impact the use of the hardware. The vertical axis of this graph depicts the number of active users over the passage of time across the horizontal axis. Normally, hardware use tends to drop off to a certain extent after the holiday season, but with Splatoon 2, the weekly number of active users remained high even beyond the start of the new year. Activity in Splatoon 2 is particularly high in Japan, but that same trend is now also being seen in other markets, so we intend to continue to focus on this area.

With Splatoon, notice how Nintendo is focusing on engagement over just regular sales. In fact, the graph they show has a spike in players in 2018. The game industry now emphasizes engagement as opposed to just sales. The reason is that more games are focusing on in-app purchases. Now, Nintendo hasn't done this beyond expansion passes, namely for single player content. But Nintendo does benefit in their own way. The first, which they mention, is increasing the install base as they make those major titles more appealing. This, by the way, also works well for Nintendo as their games tend to sell for a long period of time. The second has to do with online.

Now, Nintendo didn't just get the idea to move towards paid online out of the blue. Sony has been doing this for a while and it's actually a big reason why their gaming division has been so profitable. Even this last year, sales increased significantly despite shipping fewer consoles. To illustrate, there are about 18 million Switches sold right now. If half of those (10 mil) bought the 20 million dollar online, that would be $180 million dollars in one year. Best part, this happens every year. Oh, and this is with the Switch's much smaller install base. If the system sells as well as the 3DS did (roughly 70 million), and half buy the online, you're talking about $700 million.

So the intent is clear. Nintendo wants you to keep playing Smash. If you keep playing, you'll likely keep paying for the online. And how does Nintendo keep you playing? Consistent content updates. Smash Brothers, more than any other Nintendo titles, is perfect for this because Smash fans are rabid. Nintendo has the library of characters so its not hard to come up with more content. You mentioned Overwatch, and its the same system. Blizzard wants you to keep playing because if you keep playing, they keep selling you skins. For Smash, I expect it will have paid DLC, but it will be something like the Octo Expansion. I expect characters will be free for the reasons I mentioned above.

So the goal of Smash is, in part, is to keep players engaged so they'll keep playing online.
 

monadoboy

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@ everyone who is in favor of Isabelle... Why do you want to see her?

I love Isabelle (I even got the Nendoroid), but when I see her, "playable in Smash" is the last thing that comes to my mind, to the point that I never considered it could happen. All this Isabelle talk reads off as justifications for her being in instead of genuine wishes to see her playable.
I still haven't seen any argument that makes her stand out as a fighter or convince me that she would be fun/unique. Of all the character suggestions/wants I've seen, she's by far the most boring.
 

Roberk

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Did y'all have these kinda of hang-ups about WFT's inclusion? or Rosalina's? or Zelda's? You're right in that Isabelle could be passed up due to her pacifism and the peaceful nature of AC, and that would be a decision I would endlessly criticize Sakurai for making, but that's pretty much the only hurdle here. The accidental fighter thing isn't even that important, it's just in response to you lot saying she can't get in cause she's too peaceful.

The terraforming thing is also just one idea for her moveset, she could also weaponise the various emotions from the game(with animations and effects they could rip right from AC itself), there's the party poppers, toy hammers, glow wands, bubble blowers, various office equipment, she could even call on the other AC characters to help her out, it's so easy to make a moveset for her.

Also, Isabelle is where you lot draw the line for characters you can attack? But beating the **** out of children and animals is fair game? I adore Isabelle but once she gets into Smash she's getting smacked off-screen with no hesitation.
I can see Isabelle having a moveset, but I think it'd be one that would take a lot of creativity. Not that that's bad, it can lead to a really fun fighter, but with Robin "dancing in my head" and Greninja's moveset being made in under 24 hours just after just seeing concept art, I don't think a moveset is going to be a reason for Isabelle to be picked by Sakurai. It would be Isabelle first, then moveset, which doesn't bear well for potential newcomers.
 

Tree Gelbman

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I want Isabelle for a number of reasons.

Moveset potential, adorable character, very fast growing icon of Nintendo, from a beloved series that deserves more than one rep, the one rep it has doesn't even represent a 10th of what makes that series great.

And I just want to play with her? I'd rather play as a known named character from any series with an ''avatar" than the generic avatar.
 

SchAlternate

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Like I said before.

Thinking any character is guaranteed to make it in only set you up for a rude awakening.

Trust me, I supported Ridley back in SSB4, that was not a pleasant time for me.
 

?????????????

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And I just want to play with her? I'd rather play as a known named character from any series with an ''avatar" than the generic avatar.
I will admit: I like standalone Charizard much more than Pokémon Trainer, my childhood wish was for Tom Nook to be in Smash Bros., and I love the idea of Elma and have never seriously considered “Cross” to represent XCX.
 

Murlough

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@ everyone who is in favor of Isabelle... Why do you want to see her?

I love Isabelle (I even got the Nendoroid), but when I see her, "playable in Smash" is the last thing that comes to my mind, to the point that I never considered it could happen. All this Isabelle talk reads off as justifications for her being in instead of genuine wishes to see her playable.
I still haven't seen any argument that makes her stand out as a fighter or convince me that she would be fun/unique. Of all the character suggestions/wants I've seen, she's by far the most boring.
I think a fighter who beats people by accident is about as unique and fun as it can get at this point in the series. No other character has filled this niche. I also didn't think much of Villager until I played against an amazing Villager player in tournament. Since then I have grown to love his move-set and his overall design. If Isabelle gets a move-set as unique and interesting as Villager I have nothing to complain about.

People say that Sakurai may struggle to think of a move-set for her, yet the man has Villager plant a tree as an attack and developed Greninja's move-set in a single day. This same man has had four years.If she is revealed I can't wait to see what he has done with her.
 
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Pacack

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@ everyone who is in favor of Isabelle... Why do you want to see her?

I love Isabelle (I even got the Nendoroid), but when I see her, "playable in Smash" is the last thing that comes to my mind, to the point that I never considered it could happen. All this Isabelle talk reads off as justifications for her being in instead of genuine wishes to see her playable.
I still haven't seen any argument that makes her stand out as a fighter or convince me that she would be fun/unique. Of all the character suggestions/wants I've seen, she's by far the most boring.
I think she's cute and I really want to see a true terrain-modifying character implemented. Pac-Man scratched the surface of the concept with his hydrant and trampoline, but I think there are a lot more possibilities with that playstyle. That's why I'd be excited.

Plus, I just love Isabelle, and seeing her in my favorite game franchise as a fighter would be amazing.
 
D

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And I don’t believe that Incenaroar has any chance compared to its competitors.
So now we're taking random potshots at characters people support that are completely unrelated to the subject just because someone is unconvinced over arguments the opposing side makes in regards to the subject?

What the ****.
 

Murlough

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I’ve been offline all day. Can someone update me on what’s been going on?
Long Isabelle argument that mostly ended when some guy came in and said Isabelle(/Mimikyu) supporters were contrarian elitists. Since then, everything has been pretty chill until right now.
 
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Pacack

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Unrelated topic, but how likely do you guys think it is that we'll get more character costumes in this game. I'm talking, like, Alph or Koopalings.

If Captain Toad happens, I feel like Captain Toadette is a given, but I'm not really sure about any other ones.
 
D

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No seriously. What the **** dude.

-people talking about Isabelle-

Me: "Isabelle will never be a good idea to me."

You: "YEAH WELL INCINEROAR'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN MANG SO THERE!"




Guess I'll just see myself the **** out.
 
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?????????????

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This seems like it was meant as a jab at a user and less of a counterpoint.
I would apologize, but it would be better directed at @GoldenYuiitusin. It probably came across really poorly, but I meant it as a way to further the idea of not dismissing a character that anyone, as an individual, simply “doesn’t want” the character (which I know is a strange sentiment on what is largely a debate thread).

I would hope Golden just takes it as a simple jab, given the guff we’ve both dealt eachother in the past whatever years, but I’d hate to think I hurt anyone’s feelings. If I did, I’m really sorry. I’ve always liked Golden and Golden’s ideas.

But I also know that’s not the type of way I should approach topics on this thread, so I’ll be more cautious.
 
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