Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Zinith]

Donkey Kong Country isn't really a spin-off of Mario. If anything both Mario and Donkey Kong Country are spin-offs of Arcade DK.

I didn't say it's NOT a Mario spin-off, I said of all the spin-offs, it's LESS connected than the others

 

[Nekoo]

Wait the resetera admins know the roster?

Is it tied to the hints on imgur...

Or is it separate?

I would also like to see a source on that claim.

Emily Rogers IS a resetera Admin.And she claim to know the roster
And there some other admin (or modo? Or trusted source? i forgot) who hinted at Captain Toad 3ds, also did a VERY SUBTLE (read not) hint about smash being revealed the March Direct with Ridley (which was half wrong)
And no, it is not tied to the hint on imgur, it's separate.

But these leaks, with the simon belmond, no cuts and now the Imgur all comes to the same point. A "Perfect/Ultimate roster" / Popular picks

 

[Zeox]

On one hand, some characters could be consider as not relevant right now, like Porky or Samurai Goroh.
On the other they could always came with surprises, for example revealing porky and then saying they are bringing Mother 3 finally outside japan, or Samurai Goroh as an invited character to that new star fox racing game or whatever it was.
I dunno man, I don't know what to expect from Nintendo, honestly.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I just can't see Isabelle being big enough she gets into Mario Kart, has the whole twitter page for her franchise to herself, the face for both major game releases after New Leaf, tons of plushes, figures and merchandise, used as front and center in advertisments for systems and Nintendo as a whole Isabelle NOT getting a promotion.

She is an all star on a calibur half of the requests on this board wish they could be. People only doubt her because of the nature of her series, but that's just silly.

 

[Troykv]

Donkey Kong Country isn't really a spin-off of Mario. If anything both Mario and Donkey Kong Country are spin-offs of Arcade DK.

Yeah, I agree with that point of view; DKC it's a franchise thanks to DK Arcades, like Mario.

In their time they would have been just Spin-offs, but I think is more appropiate to know them as "derivate franchises" because of how much they've progress in their own.

 

[Pacack]

Also, regarding Balloon Fighter and Excitebiker, the former was made into Villager's up special (and Sakurai previously questioned how he would fight with no balloons) and the Excite Biker was dismissed for what seemed to be problems with making the character work. Sakurai joked that he would need ramps, but then said that wasn't the reason he couldn't be included.

 

[Murlough]

Ok guys, do you think there will be an adventure/story mode? And how'd you like it to be? I'd love something like the Adventure mode from Melee but with a little story. Something in between Adventure mode and SSE.

Also, do you think the Events mode will come back? Because I believe they were exclusive to the WiiU version last time. I'd really love those to be back.

I'm down for either/or personally. Melee's Classic and Adventure modes were fantastic and fun. Wii U's mode is the worst in my opinion but that may be my nostalgia goggles. SSE 2 would be the best case scenario in my opinion and I think it has a good shot. If I remember correctly, they did plan a new Story Mode for Wii U but it got leaked so Sakurai took it out. I have no idea how credible this is, though. I would prefer if they make an SSE 2 that they actually make a story this time, though I can see why that would be a challenge considering the growth of the cast and having to pay for significantly more voice acting.

Oh well I can dream.

Events mode is probably coming back. The only mode I don't see returning is Smash Tour and the "Orders" modes. Those feel very exclusively Smash Wii U.

 

[Zippo]

Wait the resetera admins know the roster?

Is it tied to the hints on imgur...

Or is it separate?

I would also like to see a source on that claim.

She's an admin on Resetera. I'm sure she has shared this Info with her colleagues, but she's not spoiling anything for us normies, which I'm sure many here appreciate.

 

[Zeox]

I just can't see Isabelle being big enough she gets into Mario Kart, has the whole twitter page for her franchise to herself, the face for both major game releases after New Leaf, tons of plushes, figures and merchandise, used as front and center in advertisments for systems and Nintendo as a whole Isabelle NOT getting a promotion.

She is an all star on a calibur half of the requests on this board wish they had. People only doubt her because of the nature of her series, but that's just silly.

It wouldn't be the weirdest thing that happens in smash... maybe Sakurai just didn't thought she had potential as a fighter and didn't wanted to make her a clone of the villager?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah, I agree with that point of view; DKC it's a franchise thanks to DK Arcades, like Mario.

In their time they would have been just Spin-offs, but I think is more appropiate to know them as "derivate franchises" because of how much they've progress in their own.

Eeeyup. It's not much connected to Mario, nor spun-off from it. A better way to otherwise put it is they're sister but separate franchises.

 

[Pacack]

If Isabelle isn't in as a fighter, I can see her being Chrom'd and put into some of Villager's victory animations.

 

[Zinith]

DK is a bigger series than yoshi with multiple reps, hence putting it at the top makes more sense. But they both belong in the 'extended mario universe' row regardless.

But wait, didn't you say earlier?:

It should have gone, Mario characters -> Yoshi -> Wario -> DK

I assume you ordered that because DK is farther apart from Mario than Yoshi and Wario. My god, your inconsistencies

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I'm glad you asked, actually.

I didn't ask why you think Takamaru would be a good choice. I already know why. It was a rhetorical question.

• The Mysterious Murasame Castle is the sister franchise to Zelda, having used the same engine similarly to how Kid Icarus used Metroid's engine.

That doesn't mean anything.

• The game is considered a cult classic and a must-have game for the Famicom in Japan.

Which is an issue for Western audiences. Part of the appeal of a retro character is that people played that character's game DURING the era it was released. Not on 3DS Virtual Console.

• The Mysterious Murasame Castle has been released overseas via the Virtual Console since Smash 4's roster was decided.

That doesn't help and I explained why.

• The Mysterious Murasame Castle receives an attraction in Nintendoland.

So did Balloon Fight.

• Sakurai revealed in interviews that he had considered Takamaru for Melee and Smash 4.

No. He considered him for Smash 4 very breifly and then immediately dismissed him, stating "There's no way he would work, popularity wise."

• He even said that people from his generation of gaming request him regularly.

In Japan.

• Takamaru appears as an assist trophy in Smash 4.

So do a lot of characters. Excitebike was an assist trophy in Brawl.

• Takamaru received a Mii Costume in Smash 4's DLC. The sales would help to gauge the West's interest in the character.

I seriously doubt a Mii Costume is going to generate popularity for a character people have never heard of.

• Takamaru seems to be more popularly requested among the Smash community. If this is true among people who participated in the Smash Ballot, Takamaru may be considered due to his relative popularity among retro characters.

The so-called "Smash Community" is mostly full of people who spend A LOOOT of time on the internet, deliberately and desperately searching for characters they've never heard of to put on their rosters. It doesn't account for the massive casual fanbase of people who have never heard of most characters that are inaccurately considered "The most popular requests". Of course if you isolate yourself to a specific community, it's going to seem like a character is super requested, but there are probably way more Smash fans that are not a part of Smash Forums than there are. That's why nobody saw Bayonetta coming, because she was almost never requested on Smashboards, and yet she won the ballot.

If you ask anyone on Smashboards who Lip, Ayumi Tachibana, or Geno are, most will answer that they recognize those characters. But, outside the Smash fanbase, these characters are highly obscure. Even King K. Rool is probably obscure to a wide demographic of gamers. There are gamers that could hardly read when King K. Rool made his last appearance, that are now old enough to vote.

Platinum Games' Hideki Kamiya, a peer of Sakurai and the director for Okami, Bayonetta, and NieR has expressed multiple times that he would like to work on a Mysterious Murasame Castle revival game. Sakurai including the character could be done as a favor to Kamiya, raising awareness of the series outside of Japan. It would be characteristic of Sakurai, as he is on record saying that he enjoys seeing older game franchises revived revisited for modern audiences, ala Kid Icarus.

When that happens, then we can talk about Takamaru.

That said, Balloon Fight and Excitebike both have notable resumes as well. I just consider Takamaru more likely for this particular game.

But, Balloon Fight and Excitebike beat Takamaru because there games are more popular, more successful, and released internationally. So Takamaru doesn't hold a candle to them.

 

[SmashChu]

Only now just hearing about the Resetera admins allegedly knowing the roster and apparent imgur "hints".

This is interesting.

From what I'm hearing the image roster and the Resetera one are likely the same. If so, disregard it. The fact that it has Porky on it makes it highly unlikely. I doubt they would include anyone from Mother, especially as a big reason Lucas was removed from Smash Wii U was he wasn't relevant anymore.

You also have to remember a lot of the soothsayers get things wrong. I also think the rumor about IC/Ridley/Simon is bogus as that guy has gotten things wrong as well. Also notice how the rosters all have the same type of characters. IC always come up and they always focus on the guest character which is usually drawing a name from a hat.

I think most of what has come out is bogus. I expect if anyone knows it, it would be through the same way we learned about the Switch launch which is someone working on the floor. It wont come out for a few days. Leaks will be more likely as we get close to release.

EDIT: Oh one more thing. Wanna know how a lot of these people are full of ****. Look at Starfox Grand Prix. Everyone claimed it was true, but do a little digging and you'll realize someone made it up. They also forgot to delete their imgur before posting it.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I don't know when Smash 5 came around?

I always felt Inklings and Isabelle were the most dead give away characters in the world. They were the two Nintendo characters who came around during the development of the last Smash game who lit the world on fire the most.

I just have a real problem even outside of wanting her myself seeing Sakurai see how big of a deal she is and not being able to come up with something.

 

[Arcadenik]

If Isabelle isn't in as a fighter, I can see her being Chrom'd and put into some of Villager's victory animations.

As much as I love Animal Crossing, I just don't see the series getting a second character.

 

[Zeox]

I doubt they would include anyone from Mother, especially as a big reason Lucas was removed from Smash Wii U was he wasn't relevant anymore.

But then they saw fans wanted him back and brought him back, so they are now aware that fans still remember and love mother, they are to the point they finally translated Mother 1 in english and released it in 2015.
Nintendo hasn't forgotten that series.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

If Isabelle isn't in as a fighter, I can see her being Chrom'd and put into some of Villager's victory animations.

There are plenty of things that can be innovated. Bells (See Bell Kirby for reference), the Confetti Party Gun from her Mii Costume, Singing, Painting, Abilities from her dress up costumes like the kimono. All sorts of cute things that people wanna see Isabelle do, they could see her do in Super Smash Bros.

This could be the game for Isabelle fans.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Isabelle's entire purpose is to be an assistant. It's what she does. She loves helping others. She's not one to get into the fray. It goes completely against her character to be a fighter. It makes perfect sense to keep her in the AT role because it perfectly defines who she is.

Having popularity and promotion is great. But that's not everything one needs. Moveset potential isn't even the issue here. It's her characterization. Besides that, and this is more purely my opinion than anything else, I can't stand the thought of attacking her. It just feels wrong that such a nice person who directly helps the player(or characters) would get beaten up. It has nothing to do with a cartoony fighter.

 

[Roberk]

i think the Geno/Mallow character on this new leak is just playing off of the weird Super Mario RPG tweet we had a few weeks ago. The tweet was for SMRPG’s 22nd anniversary and Geno/Mallow, it had no confirmed meaning, so people are using to speculate about Geno (and Mallow).

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Isabelle's entire purpose is to be an assistant. It's what she does. She loves helping others. She's not one to get into the fray. It goes completely against her character to be a fighter. It makes perfect sense to keep her in the AT role because it perfectly defines who she is.

Having popularity and promotion is great. But that's not everything one needs. Moveset potential isn't even the issue here. It's her characterization. Besides that, and this is more purely my opinion than anything else, I can't stand the thought of attacking her. It just feels wrong that such a nice person who directly helps the player(or characters) would get beaten up. It has nothing to do with a cartoony fighter.

No offense, but that's a load of nothing and you know it my friend.

There are plenty of people who go against their characterization or purpose in their mainline games in Smash already.

There is absolutely NOTHING holding back Isabelle save these notions created on her by this fanbase.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

But wait, didn't you say earlier?:

I assume you ordered that because DK is farther apart from Mario than Yoshi and Wario. My god, your inconsistencies

That's because Brawl and Smash 4 are laid out differently, when they're all on one horizontal row it makes sense to put DK last. But when they're on different, vertical rows DK going at the top makes more sense.

 

[Arcanir]

Emily knowing the roster is a bit of a grey area as she states "I'm not expecting many (if any) cuts', which implies she's not sure if everyone is returning. If she knew the full thing, then her phrasing probably would've been different, yet she leaves enough ambiguity to show that she's not certain on the matter.

 

[FlareHabanero]

>You'll be happy with this roster.

You better keep your promise Emily.

Don't toy with my expectations.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

A bit late but I feel that while the Yoshi series is the closest to the Mario series compared to Wario and Donkey Kong, it's different enough to be represented as its own series. His placement on the Smash 4 CSS is a bit... off... but I don't think that should necessarily take away what Yoshi represents. Dr. Mario is far away from the other Mario characters on said CSS, after all.

Also:

Most people will say if any Mario spin-off series is far removed from Mario, it's the DK series. So here's what the Brawl CSS looks like to me:

To be fair that could just be the order the series were introduced since the original Super Smash Bros.: DK was right after Mario and Yoshi was a bit farther after him on the second row. Then we have Wario, who was introduced in Brawl.

Again though, I don't think something as trivial as CSS arrangement should strip a character of what they represent. Again, look at Dr. Mario, and the other clones for that matter.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Mario is a selfless hero. You have no problem beating him up.

Luigi is a reluctant and fearful hero, who puts his fears aside whenever the kingdom he lives in or his brother is in danger or needs help. He's a nice person. You have no problem beating him up.

Link is a sweet boy who loves to sleep and all he does is bravely fight. You have no problem beating him up.

Olimar legit just wants to get home in Pikmin. You beat him up.

The Pokemon fight in their games sure, but some of them namely Pikachu and Jigglypuff also serve as cutesy mascots like Isabelle. You don't have an issue beating them up.

If you take the R.O.B. that is playable to be the one from Subspace. He is the last of his kind and a good boy who helps you in the end. You never complain about beating him up.

Villager in his/her core games just is living their best live, planting flowers and talking to neighbors. You don't have any issue fighting them.

Stop making excuses for holding back one of the true all-stars introduced in the modern era of Nintendo.

 

[Nekoo]

Mario is a selfless hero. You have no problem beating him up.

Luigi is a reluctant and fearful hero, who puts his fears aside whenever the kingdom he lives in or his brother is in danger or needs help. He's a nice person. You have no problem beating him up.

Link is a sweet boy who loves to sleep and all he does is bravely fight. You have no problem beating him up.

Olimar legit just wants to get home in Pikmin. You beat him up.

The Pokemon fight in their games sure, but some of them namely Pikachu and Jigglypuff also serve as cutesy mascots like Isabelle. You don't have an issue beating them up.

If you take the R.O.B. that is playable to be the one from Subspace. He is the last of his kind and a good boy who helps you in the end. You never complain about beating him up.

Villager in his/her core games just is living their best live, planting flowers and talking to neighbors. You don't have any issue fighting him.

Stop making excuses for holding back one of the true all-stars introduced in the modern era of Nintendo.

There a difference with Characterisation used to BEAT UP THIS CHARACTER. And Characterisation for THIS CHARACTER to fight.

 

[DGAMER]

The only way I could have seen Isabelle get in is if it was a semi clone of Villager.

 

[Zinith]

That's because Brawl and Smash 4 are laid out differently, when they're all on one horizontal row it makes sense to put DK last. But when they're on different, vertical rows DK going at the top makes more sense.

Understandable, but that causes a bizarre inconsistency with the oh-so-holy Brawl CSS where the close Mario spin-off reps: Yoshi and Wario are removed from the other Mario characters due to DK and Diddy's placement which is more akin to a "sister" series than a spin-off

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Takamaru was considered for a very breif moment and then immediately dismissed. That's not something to brag about. I'm sure thousands of Nintendo characters can claim that, because being considered doesn't mean you were ever planned. It just means you crossed Sakurai's mind when he's already thinking about

Sakurai simply stated that "There's no way he would work, popularity wise," There was never any mention of him not working simply because his game was only released in Japan. Having his game released on Western Virtual Console doesn't suddenly fix the popularity problem. Part of the appeal of a retro character is that people played that character's game during the era it was released.

You may think Takamaru is popular because people on Smashboards talk about him and request him, but there's a HUGE demographic outside the internet to account for.

It's way more likely that we'd either see Balloon Fighter, Excitebike, or Mach Rider before Takamaru.

Sakurai also said he wouldn't include Balloon Fighter and Excitebiker for specific reasons, so why do they get a pass?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

There a difference with Characterisation used to BEAT UP THIS CHARACTER. And Characterisation for THIS CHARACTER to fight.

I mean if we're really gonna harp on characterization to fight. You could bring in the really sketch reasons why Pokemon even fight in their mainline games.

I mean Wii Fit Trainer has no damn reason to be fighting either, yet we've all accepted her. Well, most of us.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Mario is a selfless hero. You have no problem beating him up.

Luigi is a reluctant and fearful hero, who puts his fears aside whenever the kingdom he lives in or his brother is in danger or needs help. He's a nice person. You have no problem beating him up.

Link is a sweet boy who loves to sleep and all he does is bravely fight. You have no problem beating him up.

Olimar legit just wants to get home in Pikmin. You beat him up.

The Pokemon fight in their games sure, but some of them namely Pikachu and Jigglypuff also serve as cutesy mascots like Isabelle. You don't have an issue beating them up.

If you take the R.O.B. that is playable to be the one from Subspace. He is the last of his kind and a good boy who helps you in the end. You never complain about beating him up.

Villager in his/her core games just is living their best live, planting flowers and talking to neighbors. You don't have any issue fighting them.

Stop making excuses for holding back one of the true all-stars introduced in the modern era of Nintendo.

Olimar is the only time fighting someone felt weird for me. All the Nintendo characters I love were murdering adorable Pikmin, as if the Pikmin games weren't dark enough.

You probably should have reserved your "what about this?!" argument for characters that haven't previously fought though. Villager alone would have sufficed.

 

[Zinith]

A bit late but I feel that while the Yoshi series is the closest to the Mario series compared to Wario and Donkey Kong, it's different enough to be represented as its own series. His placement on the Smash 4 CSS is a bit... off... but I don't think that should necessarily take away what Yoshi represents. Dr. Mario is far away from the other Mario characters on said CSS, after all.

Also:

To be fair that could just be the order the series were introduced since the original Super Smash Bros.: DK was right after Mario and Yoshi was a bit farther after him on the second row. Then we have Wario, who was introduced in Brawl.

Again though, I don't think something as trivial as CSS arrangement should strip a character of what they represent. Again, look at Dr. Mario, and the other clones for that matter.

Actually, the original 8 in Smash 64 was ordered by the characters first introduction: Mario and DK (1981), Link (February 1986), Samus (August 1986), Yoshi (1990), Kirby (1992), Fox (1993), Pikachu (1996). Yoshi would've been either before or after DK on the same row if it was about being a "Mario spin-off" character.

Oh believe me, people care DEEPLY about CSS placement. I'm not the only one. People didn't take too kindly to the clones' placements

 

[Nekoo]

I mean if we're really gonna harp on characterization to fight. You could bring in the really sketch reasons why Pokemon even fight in their mainline games.

I mean Wii Fit Trainer has no damn reason to be fighting either, yet we've all accepted her. Well, most of us.

Mario fight using things only HE would do.
Luigi fight using things only HE would do.
Olimar fight using things only HE would do.
Megaman fight using things only HE would do.
Sonic fight using things only HE would do.
Cloud fight using things only HE would do.
Bayonetta fight using things only SHE would do.
Villager fight using things only HE would do.

I can go on and on.
But the reasoning is. "What and How would this character fight in a situation where THEY HAVE to fight? What would THEY do and USE that stay faithful to ther characters in that situation?"

 

[Fenriraga]

This is just such a different case than every other Smash game. Yeah, leaks in the past have missed some characters, but most of them were also, what, at least a year before the game came out? Even right after the games announcement?

This isn't the same situation as prior. This game is coming out within this year, within 7 months. The game, at this point, is pretty much done, at the very least on a surface level. It's not out of the realm of possibility that someone could know the full roster.

That's not me saying I take any of these leaks at more than face value, but still. This is a very different case from every prior Smash game.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Sakurai also said he wouldn't include Balloon Fighter and Excitebiker for specific reasons, so why do they get a pass?

Research.

He said he didn't include them (18 freaking years ago) because he thought Ice Climbers were a better addition by process of elimination, though he never addressed any specific issues with Balloon Fighter or Excitebike.

I bet you thought that was a slam dunk, but no. There is no quote out there from Sakurai himself raising any issues with the other Famicom characters he considered for Melee, with the exception of Ayumi Tachibana.

 

[NintenZ]

I love how people see Eevee as shop-in when Pokemon Switch likely wasn’t in full development at the time of Smash for Switch’s release. That and we don’t even completely know about Pokémon Switch yet.

 

[Pazzo.]

That's not really new since people have been saying that for years. Its died down a lot since Brawl.

Really, you can boil down what matters into three factors

• Is the Character popular?
• Is the character unique in some way
• Is the character relevant (as in they have been seen in the last few years)

How much they matter differences, but for the most part you can look at these and they apply to every character added. The last one is important since, besides the guest and classic characters, everyone has fit that criteria.

Brawl

• Meta-Knight - Appeared in a lot of the Kirby games since Nightmare to Dreamland (2002)
• Zero Suit Samus - From Metroid Zero Mission (2004 or 2005)
• Wario - Been around, but the design is based of Wario Ware which came out in 2003
• Ike - From Path of Radience (2005)
• Pokemon Trainer - Pokemon Fire Red and Leaf Green (2004)
• Diddy Kong - Been around. Was appearing in Mario spin offs as well as King of Swing and Donkey Konga.
• Lucas - Mother 3 came out in 2006
• Olimar - Pikmin started on the Gamecube in 2001 and had a sequel in 2004
• Lucario - From the newest Pokemon game Diamond and Pearl
• Toon Link - Really just Young Link but he was based off the Wind Waker (2003)
• Wolf - Was in Starfox Assult and Starfox Command (2005)

Smash 3DS/Wii U

• Villager - Animal Crossing was Nintendo's biggest series without a character at that time. Last one was New Leaf which was 2013
• Wii Fit Trailer - Wii Fit - 2008
• Rosalina - She appeared in a ton of the Mario games: Galaxy 1 and 2, 3D World, and a lot of the spin-off games
• Little Mac - While technically considered one of the classic characters, we got a game in 2009
• Greninja - From the newest Pokemon game X/Y (2013)
• Palutena - Appeared again in Kid Icarus Uprising (2012)
• Robin - From Awakening (2013)
• Shulk - From Xenoblade Chronicles, new series that started in 2010 (in Japan)
• Bowser Jr - He was appearing in a lot of the Mario spinoffs but hes based on New Super Mario Bros U (2012)
• Lucina - Awakening
• Dark Pit - Palutena
• Corrin - Fates (goes without saying as he was added for being new)

As you can see, a lot of the roster is from newer games. That seemed to be a higher priority for Smash 3DS/WiiU, but it still happened for Brawl. None of the characters besides the classic character didn't have an appearance between the titles before it. That could change, mind you, but you have a better shot picking from the new characters. At a bear minimum, you might be closer to 50% if you follow this method as at least you get some of them.

This was a bit off topic, so let me tie this together. What Omni is saying is don't look at dumb criteria. We have never seen "reps" being a determining factor for adding characters. Heck, Fire Emblem got 3 new characters in this game. Something like "being current" does seem to matter. You could argue the same thing about popularity. During Brawl, being "popular" was hot. But we come to find out that just because a character is popular doesn't mean they'll be added (heck, look at Ridley). Something like using "current" characters will probably work better (though it doesn't guarentee that you'll be accurate).

So what do you think will Sakurai include from these past few years?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Mario fight using things only HE would do.
Luigi fight using things only HE would do.
Olimar fight using things only HE would do.
Megaman fight using things only HE would do.
Sonic fight using things only HE would do.
Cloud fight using things only HE would do.
Bayonetta fight using things only HE would do.
Villager fight using things only HE would do.

I can go on and on.
But the reasoning is. "What and How would this character fight in a situation where THEY HAVE to fight? What would THEY do and USE that stay faithful to ther characters in that situation?"

And we've been over this with Isabelle as well. She is legit the only one this issue comes up with and yet it always feel like when those of us who mention the things she can do that feel truthful to her. It falls on deaf ears/eyes

So why even bother repeating them for the 90th time? The jist of it is you'd have someone who is on the battlefield doing their job, but accidentally hurting people. There. You have Isabelle, but people seem to forget this or don't care. A person who is loyal to her job but also a klutz.

Or proceed to turn around and pitch the same thing for Phoenix Wright instead.

 

[Opossum]

Mario fight using things only HE would do.
Luigi fight using things only HE would do.
Olimar fight using things only HE would do.
Megaman fight using things only HE would do.
Sonic fight using things only HE would do.
Cloud fight using things only HE would do.
Bayonetta fight using things only SHE would do.
Villager fight using things only HE would do.

I can go on and on.
But the reasoning is. "What and How would this character fight in a situation where THEY HAVE to fight? What would THEY do and USE that stay faithful to ther characters in that situation?"

Isabelle could fight by terraforming: creating public works projects to alter the stage in her favor, something only SHE would do.


Just putting it out there.