Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[SuperSmashStephen]

Good lord. If Sora and Ridley get revealed for Smash Switch at E3, I will literally faint like this:

Same. My soul will ascend to a higher plane of existence.

^Literally me^

 

[SquashiniKun]

Same. My soul will ascend to a higher plane of existence.
View attachment 145437
^Literally me^

See you space cowboy

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

See you space cowboy

 

[Questionmark222]

Only THREE WEEKS until E3? Well these will definitely be the three longest weeks in my entire life.

 

[EnthusedPanda]

My girlfriend will probably start caring about Smash if Sora is confirmed, so I’m all for that. It’s a lonely life, liking Smash where I am >_>

 

[RosaPeach]

OMG Simon Belmont is one of my most wanted characters for smash 5 I hope the leak true also Bomberman should be a character in smash Bomberman has the same reasons like Simon. I think Simon is a better fit than Snake.

 

[SmashChu]

June 1st will be the day I post it. It will be its own thread in the General Discussion section due to the substantial amount of content. It being its own thread has already been approved by mods already! Super hyped to post it.

Sounds great. I remember doing something similar for Smash 4 but it was all wrong in the end. Let me just give a few pointers of what I learned from that

Don't Focus Too Much From Sakurai - One of the big mistake people make is they look too much at Sakurai and not the characters. I'm seeing this with the whole "timing the roster" (and idea that needs a shotgun blast to the back of the cranium). As an example, everyone said Villager wouldn't happen because Sakurai said he wasn't violent. "Experts" relied on this information (myself include). People who were ignorant of this quote said Villager would get it. Who was right in the end? It wasn't the Scholars of Sakurai but the guys who say Animal Crossing as a big Nintendo series. The "timing the roster" is the same problem because they are interpreting events and saying "Sakurai does his plan like this." There are probably other great examples, but my advice is to focus on the characters, not the man.

Be Holistic in Your Thinking - More something I've picked up on later, but too often people look at characters series by series. This doesn't make too much sense when you look at the rosters we've gotten. Its better to look at the totality of Nintendo characters and say who is a good fit. Should go without saying but avoid reps for the most part.

Be Flexible - Just because it was done in Smash 4 doesn't mean it will be done now. A lot of my roster was based heavily on information from the past. That's still good, but you have to be willing to be flexible in your thinking. Its better to find common threads than specific patterns. This kind of goes hand in hand with the first two.

It May Not Be a Good Idea to Go Against the Grain (sometimes) - This was me and Megaman. If there is a character that is undeniable, they will probably be in. This may not matter much since it would mostly apply to Inklings (who are confirmed already), but it's something to keep in mind.

Hope it helps (or was at least an interesting read)

 

[BluePikmin11]

So let us have a new topic, what are the chances that an ARMS character was planned as a placeholder in Smash Switch's 2016 project plan, with Sakurai keeping an eye on the franchise to see if his franchise performs well to implement him as a low priority unique character akin to Bowser Jr. (Who was nearly cut from Smash 4's base roster)?

Sounds great. I remember doing something similar for Smash 4 but it was all wrong in the end. Let me just give a few pointers of what I learned from that

Don't Focus Too Much From Sakurai - One of the big mistake people make is they look too much at Sakurai and not the characters. I'm seeing this with the whole "timing the roster" (and idea that needs a shotgun blast to the back of the cranium). As an example, everyone said Villager wouldn't happen because Sakurai said he wasn't violent. "Experts" relied on this information (myself include). People who were ignorant of this quote said Villager would get it. Who was right in the end? It wasn't the Scholars of Sakurai but the guys who say Animal Crossing as a big Nintendo series. The "timing the roster" is the same problem because they are interpreting events and saying "Sakurai does his plan like this." There are probably other great examples, but my advice is to focus on the characters, not the man.

Be Holistic in Your Thinking - More something I've picked up on later, but too often people look at characters series by series. This doesn't make too much sense when you look at the rosters we've gotten. Its better to look at the totality of Nintendo characters and say who is a good fit. Should go without saying but avoid reps for the most part.

Be Flexible - Just because it was done in Smash 4 doesn't mean it will be done now. A lot of my roster was based heavily on information from the past. That's still good, but you have to be willing to be flexible in your thinking. Its better to find common threads than specific patterns. This kind of goes hand in hand with the first two.

It May Not Be a Good Idea to Go Against the Grain (sometimes) - This was me and Megaman. If there is a character that is undeniable, they will probably be in. This may not matter much since it would mostly apply to Inklings (who are confirmed already), but it's something to keep in mind.

Hope it helps (or was at least an interesting read)

I appreciate the advice.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

My girlfriend will probably start caring about Smash if Sora is confirmed, so I’m all for that. It’s a lonely life, liking Smash where I am >_>

I think the internet would explode. Well, gaming websites. Kingdom Hearts is major. I hope it can happen. I hope it will happen. Even if he is a DLC character later on in the same vain as Cloud.

God, Nintendo, Square, Disney, and mostly Sakurai, please make it happen.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

So let us have a new topic, what are the chances that an ARMS character was planned as a placeholder in Smash Switch's 2016 project plan, with Sakurai keeping an eye on the franchise to see if his franchise performs well to implement him as a low priority unique character akin to Bowser Jr. (Who was nearly cut from Smash 4's base roster)?


I appreciate the advice.

Getting a character from a then unreleased game is already unlikely but getting one from a brand new ip that's unreleased really isn't gonna happen imo unless like you said they're tacked on at the end of development. The Arms developers saying that it's "too young" for smash really doesn't help too.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I think Sora is the most ridiculous third party video game character proposal I've ever heard. Aside from just the fact that Kingdom Hearts is a horrendously bad game, the reason him being in Super Smash Bros is so absurd and counterproductive is just as much obvious.

It'd be harder to make Sora work than Ridley.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

I think Sora is the most ridiculous third party video game character proposal I've ever heard. Aside from just the fact that Kingdom Hearts is a horrendously bad game, the reason him being in Super Smash Bros is so absurd and counterproductive is just as much obvious.

It'd be harder to make Sora work than Ridley.

So sorry you feel that way.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

So sorry you feel that way.

Don't be.

 

[Megadoomer]

I think Sora is the most ridiculous third party video game character proposal I've ever heard. Aside from just the fact that Kingdom Hearts is a horrendously bad game, the reason him being in Super Smash Bros is so absurd and counterproductive is just as much obvious.

It'd be harder to make Sora work than Ridley.

Aside from the fact that games being good or bad is generally a matter of opinion (unless the game is poorly made like Sonic 06 or downright unplayable like Big Rigs, and Kingdom Hearts is neither), Sora is nowhere near the most ridiculous third party proposal out there.

The biggest issue seems to be the fact that he's owned by Disney (along with all of the content that's original to Kingdom Hearts - Square-Enix is only credited for their own franchises like Final Fantasy), but I can see why people would want him in - he's already the star of a franchise that's heavily based around crossovers, and he's the star of a Square-Enix franchise with what appears to be the second-largest worldwide presence. (Dragon Quest has been around for much longer, but its popularity seems to be limited outside of Japan by comparison)

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Aside from the fact that games being good or bad is generally a matter of opinion (unless the game is poorly made like Sonic 06 or downright unplayable like Big Rigs, and Kingdom Hearts is neither), Sora is nowhere near the most ridiculous third party proposal out there.

The biggest issue seems to be the fact that he's owned by Disney (along with all of the content that's original to Kingdom Hearts - Square-Enix is only credited for their own franchises like Final Fantasy), but I can see why people would want him in - he's already the star of a franchise that's heavily based around crossovers, and he's the star of a Square-Enix franchise with what appears to be the second-largest worldwide presence. (Dragon Quest has been around for much longer, but its popularity seems to be limited outside of Japan by comparison)

It's the most ridiculous main character of a third party video game IP I've heard. What have you heard that was more ridiculous?

 

[Wyoming]

Sora being harder to integrate than Ridley needs elaboration in detail I think. What gameplay aspects could make it harder for him? The Disney partners?

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Don't be.

Too late.

You know, for someone who accusing people of being trolls, you sure do like indirectly stir the pot.

Very confrontational over opinions that don’t align with yours.

What’s it like being right all the time? Even with opinions. That must get tiring.

 

[Cosmic77]

So let us have a new topic, what are the chances that an ARMS character was planned as a placeholder in Smash Switch's 2016 project plan, with Sakurai keeping an eye on the franchise to see if his franchise performs well to implement him as a low priority unique character akin to Bowser Jr. (Who was nearly cut from Smash 4's base roster)?

Seems like a lot of people are under the impression that an ARMS character is likely for DLC.

ARMS was first shown off at the Switch presentation in January 2017, which is close to two years before Smash Switch would presumably be released. Being from a new IP definitely makes him risky, but personally, I think Sakurai would be open to adding Spring Man just because of his unique moveset. He also stated that he doesn't like intentionally holding characters back for DLC, so if he ever planned for Spring Man to be playable, I have a feeling he'll shoot for the base roster. Since ARMS will be nearly irrelevant by the time we get to DLC, I could see Sakurai just holding off on Spring Man like he did with the Inklings.

It's the most ridiculous main character of a third party video game IP I've heard. What have you heard that was more ridiculous?

People are unironically requesting Goku now, so...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Literally the only obstacle Sora remotely has is licensing issues. That includes Disney partners and how to implement them right. Moveset is pretty easy as he's hardly lacking in options.

Ridley is just far harder to make work right. With size/proportions, making sure he's able to have some kind of flight decently(for instance, gliding could return for him only), being very strong and menacing, making sure the hitboxes aren't unfair, and finding the right model to use.

Sora has actually less hoops in the long run.

 

[SmashChu]

So let us have a new topic, what are the chances that an ARMS character was planned as a placeholder in Smash Switch's 2016 project plan, with Sakurai keeping an eye on the franchise to see if his franchise performs well to implement him as a low priority unique character akin to Bowser Jr. (Who was nearly cut from Smash 4's base roster)?

I think you may be asking the wrong question and it goes back to what I mentioned before. Its highly likely Sakurai was well aware of the 2017 games. By the time Smash was in development, a lot of these titles would have been decided (especially given how Nintendo was releasing games like clockwork). Moreoever, these games would have started or been well underway when Smash was starting and these would have been the launch titles of Nintendo's new system. We know Sakurai has access to behind the scenes info due to Greninja, and its something we could reasonably suspect given Smash's caliber. So it wouldn't be farfetched to assume that the 2017 games were heavily looked at for Smash 5. This would include stages and assist trophies as well (i.e. Odyssey and 1-2-Switch).

ARMS is basically this games Villager. Talking to the Source Gaming folks, they are are very confident Spring Man (who is basically the AMRS character we're expecting) wont happen because of "timing". However, most laymen expect ARMS will be in Smash. Spring Man makes a lot of sense. He's from a new Nintendo property and has a very unique moveset, and the series has a lot to pull from (assist trophies, items, stages ect). On every account, it makes too much sense. I don't think it was "reserving a slot" more that Sakurai would have been more flexible as there were a lot of games in the pipeline. Its also not unreasonable to think that Nintendo management asked Sakurai to include some of these characters and games as they promote their recent releases (by the by, Xenoblade 2 will get DLC up until around Smash's launch).

If you can't tell from my signature, Spring Man is one of the 5 characters I'm very confident on. If I were to put a number on it, I'd say 90% which is the highest I could probably go. When you look at everything, the only reason you can say he wont be in is the whole "timing" but this is a dumb argument anyway.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

I just realized.

Smash Bros. Switch and Kingdom Hearts 3, two of the biggest crossover games ever, will be having news will be coming this E3, and I do not know if my body is ready to contain this much hype.

If Smash is confirmed to dump a pile of news like Nomura confirmed with KH3 at E3, then I might just collapse and be at the hospital, trying to recall all of the new information that these two games will offer.

E3 will literally kill me.

Our. Bodies. Weren't. Ready.

Better get the tissues for how many tears are going to be unleashed in the cry of joy

 

[Hinata]

Literally the only obstacle Sora remotely has is licensing issues. That includes Disney partners and how to implement them right. Moveset is pretty easy as he's hardly lacking in options.

Ridley is just far harder to make work right. With size/proportions, making sure he's able to have some kind of flight decently(for instance, gliding could return for him only), being very strong and menacing, making sure the hitboxes aren't unfair, and finding the right model to use.

Sora has actually less hoops in the long run.

Sora has less hoops, but they're much bigger hoops. Ridley has far more hoops to jump through, but they're smaller issues in comparison.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I don't support Sora and don't care for Kingdom Hearts, but honestly, how can one suggest that he's "the most ridiculous" third party suggestion? He's not even a ridiculous suggestion, let alone the most ridiculous. The game series is huge. How ridiculous do you have to be to let yourself post that? That might be the largest exaggeration I've read on this thread in a long time.

 

[Megadoomer]

It's the most ridiculous main character of a third party video game IP I've heard. What have you heard that was more ridiculous?

Going by this alone, there's 2B from Nier Automata, Genji from Overwatch, Kat from Gravity Rush, or Kiryu Kazuma from Yakuza. (no offense to the people who made or posted in those threads, of course; they've just never been on Nintendo consoles)

As far as ones that I personally support, there's Dante from the Devil May Cry series (I'm aware that he stands no chance of making it in, but I still made up a really long move-list regardless). If I looked back into speculation for Smash 4's base game or DLC, I'm sure there would be even more examples.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

If we get Joker, I'm sure Persona will grow

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Going by this alone, there's 2B from Nier Automata, Genji from Overwatch, Kat from Gravity Rush, or Kiryu Kazuma from Yakuza. (no offense to the people who made or posted in those threads, of course; they've just never been on Nintendo consoles) If I looked back into speculation for Smash 4's base game or DLC, I'm sure there would be even more examples.

Those all make more sense just because they aren't being held back by Disney references and those games are all of better quality.

 

[One winged Devil]

Aside from the fact that games being good or bad is generally a matter of opinion (unless the game is poorly made like Sonic Blast downright unplayable like Big Rigs, and Kingdom Hearts is neither), Sora is nowhere near the most ridiculous third party proposal out there.

The biggest issue seems to be the fact that he's owned by Disney (along with all of the content that's original to Kingdom Hearts - Square-Enix is only credited for their own franchises like Final Fantasy), but I can see why people would want him in - he's already the star of a franchise that's heavily based around crossovers, and he's the star of a Square-Enix franchise with what appears to be the second-largest worldwide presence. (Dragon Quest has been around for much longer, but its popularity seems to be limited outside of Japan by comparison)

Fixed that for you, your welcome.

 

[Megadoomer]

Those all make more sense just because they aren't being held back by Disney references and those games are all of better quality.

Again, "better quality" is a subjective statement, and all four of those are from franchises that are either owned by Sony or have never been on Nintendo consoles.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I don't support Sora and don't care for Kingdom Hearts, but honestly, how can one suggest that he's "the most ridiculous" third party suggestion? He's not even a ridiculous suggestion, let alone the most ridiculous. The game series is huge. How ridiculous do you have to be to let yourself post that? That might be the largest exaggeration I've read on this thread in a long time.

The fact that you described Sora as "not even ridicolous" is one of the biggest exaggerations I've read on this thread in a long time.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

If we get Joker, I'm sure Persona will grow

If we get anything Megami Tensei it'll grow. As much as I want Joker and think he's feasible, I think it'd be more logical in the long run to add Jack Frost or something since he's been around since the beginning. He even got his own fun platformer last year. With Persona Q2 coming, I do think Joker is going to have a decent amount of longevity, but he will be lost to relevancy with the eventual release of Persona 6 (but that could be a long way away).

 

[Deleted member]

If Sora was added, than that would be really great.
Disney and Nintendo would be connected.

June 12th: the day the internet gets bent like pretzel

*The day the internet explodes in hype and the smash fans rise up.*

 

[BluePikmin11]

I think you may be asking the wrong question and it goes back to what I mentioned before. Its highly likely Sakurai was well aware of the 2017 games. By the time Smash was in development, a lot of these titles would have been decided (especially given how Nintendo was releasing games like clockwork). Moreoever, these games would have started or been well underway when Smash was starting and these would have been the launch titles of Nintendo's new system. We know Sakurai has access to behind the scenes info due to Greninja, and its something we could reasonably suspect given Smash's caliber. So it wouldn't be farfetched to assume that the 2017 games were heavily looked at for Smash 5. This would include stages and assist trophies as well (i.e. Odyssey and 1-2-Switch).

ARMS is basically this games Villager. Talking to the Source Gaming folks, they are are very confident Spring Man (who is basically the AMRS character we're expecting) wont happen because of "timing". However, most laymen expect ARMS will be in Smash. Spring Man makes a lot of sense. He's from a new Nintendo property and has a very unique moveset, and the series has a lot to pull from (assist trophies, items, stages ect). On every account, it makes too much sense. I don't think it was "reserving a slot" more that Sakurai would have been more flexible as there were a lot of games in the pipeline. Its also not unreasonable to think that Nintendo management asked Sakurai to include some of these characters and games as they promote their recent releases (by the by, Xenoblade 2 will get DLC up until around Smash's launch).

If you can't tell from my signature, Spring Man is one of the 5 characters I'm very confident on. If I were to put a number on it, I'd say 90% which is the highest I could probably go. When you look at everything, the only reason you can say he wont be in is the whole "timing" but this is a dumb argument anyway.

I can see Smash Switch mid-development flexibility becoming a big factor for an ARMs character to get in, but I am unsure TBH because I think Sakurai would have to see how well the IP did before assuring the development for Spring Man as a Smash fighter. Though TBF, ARMS has become a successful IP when 1 million sales were announced on July 2017 and Sakurai could take note of this.

He also stated that he doesn't like intentionally holding characters back for DLC

When did he state this?

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

The fact that you described Sora as "not even ridicolous" is one of the biggest exaggerations I've read on this thread in a long time.

I suppose I can't argue with someone making statements beyond reason, so I'll be departing this "ridiculous" conversation.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sora has less hoops, but they're much bigger hoops. Ridley has far more hoops to jump through, but they're smaller issues in comparison.

It entirely depends more upon how Kingdom Hearts has to be represented. Could be nothing more than a decent amount of mone and some trophies. Could be a lot of money due to "no way am I allowing cartoon characters to show up in gameplay". It's not necessarily bigger.

There's not really all that comparable either. In the end, Sora's chances are ultimately higher, though to say it's a huge difference is silly too.

 

[One winged Devil]

The fact that you described Sora as "not even ridicolous" is one of the biggest exaggerations I've read on this thread in a long time.

Bruh you need to relax, if you think Sora is ridiculous then that's your opinion, just don't get mad when people disagree with you. (Unless someone says 06 is a bad game cause it's not LOL)

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Just a reminder that debating about Smash is perfectly fine but please do not resort to name calling, personal insults, or ad hominem attacks. Not that it’s happening now but the current line of conversation could lead to that. People are allowed to have different opinions and can express those freely in this thread.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

If we get anything Megami Tensei it'll grow. As much as I want Joker and think he's feasible, I think it'd be more logical in the long run to add Jack Frost or something since he's been around since the beginning. He even got his own fun platformer last year. With Persona Q2 coming, I do think Joker is going to have a decent amount of longevity, but he will be lost to relevancy with the eventual release of Persona 6 (but that could be a long way away).

Unless it was a sequel and Morgana comes back as well?

 

[Spazzy_D]

I think you may be asking the wrong question and it goes back to what I mentioned before. Its highly likely Sakurai was well aware of the 2017 games. By the time Smash was in development, a lot of these titles would have been decided (especially given how Nintendo was releasing games like clockwork). Moreoever, these games would have started or been well underway when Smash was starting and these would have been the launch titles of Nintendo's new system. We know Sakurai has access to behind the scenes info due to Greninja, and its something we could reasonably suspect given Smash's caliber. So it wouldn't be farfetched to assume that the 2017 games were heavily looked at for Smash 5. This would include stages and assist trophies as well (i.e. Odyssey and 1-2-Switch).

ARMS is basically this games Villager. Talking to the Source Gaming folks, they are are very confident Spring Man (who is basically the AMRS character we're expecting) wont happen because of "timing". However, most laymen expect ARMS will be in Smash. Spring Man makes a lot of sense. He's from a new Nintendo property and has a very unique moveset, and the series has a lot to pull from (assist trophies, items, stages ect). On every account, it makes too much sense. I don't think it was "reserving a slot" more that Sakurai would have been more flexible as there were a lot of games in the pipeline. Its also not unreasonable to think that Nintendo management asked Sakurai to include some of these characters and games as they promote their recent releases (by the by, Xenoblade 2 will get DLC up until around Smash's launch).

If you can't tell from my signature, Spring Man is one of the 5 characters I'm very confident on. If I were to put a number on it, I'd say 90% which is the highest I could probably go. When you look at everything, the only reason you can say he wont be in is the whole "timing" but this is a dumb argument anyway.

You mean Natenjex and somewhat Push. Not all of us think Spring Man won't make it.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I don't want Sora in Smash simply because I hate him and the Kingdom Hearts series.

That said, if he does get in I'm not gonna be angry. If you're the kind who gets ridiculously angry over Smash rosters... you're prioritizing wrong.

 

[SmashChu]

I can see Smash Switch mid-development flexibility becoming a big factor for an ARMs character to get in, but I am unsure TBH because I think Sakurai would have to see how well the IP did before assuring the development for Spring Man as a Smash fighter. Though TBF, ARMS has become a successful IP when 1 million sales were announced on July 2017 and Sakurai could take note of this.

Im not sure how much a series really needs to prove itself. Fire Emblem never left Japan when it was added and Xenoblade didn't sell that great when it was added either. I don't think the sales matter all that much. I figure the fact that they have stretchy arms would be enough to justify them. Plus its coming from Nintendo's internal teams.

You mean Natenjex and somewhat Push. Not all of us think Spring Man won't make it.

I was talking to some of the other guys on Twitter, Anvil and Cartboy, and they were saying the same thing. Though, in fairness, I can't say this applies to the whole of SG.