Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[TheLastJinjo]

The readon why Roy was included I think it was because Sakurai enjoy Roy's Fire Emblem game

It doesn't matter what you think.

Sakurai specifically stated that he added Roy because he was a requested veteran return. He wanted to bring back a veteran from Melee and Brawl and after Mewtwo, Roy and Lucas were the most popular.

It's extremely disrespectful to construct and spread lies about a real life man who deserves nothing, but respect. This is the guy who makes your Smash games and you repay him by going on the internet and slandering him and spreading misinformation to other users, accusing him of being biased and selfish.

Sakurai: "I was aware that, following Mewtwo, Lucas and Roy also enjoy considerable popularity. If we were to bring back a total of three fighters, I knew we couldn’t go wrong with these three."

You can easily research this stuff instead of making stuff up in your head based on nothing.
http://sourcegaming.info/2016/02/23/nintendo-dream-interview-with-sakurai-part-2/

 

[Bowserlick]

Here were my guesses for Palutena's specials in January 2014.

Palutena Specials

Down B Levitate (ground): Palutena levitates off the ground about the height of Mario. A pool of light appears below her on the ground. She can only levitate if there is a floor beneath her (the pool of light helps keep track of this). While levitating she uses aerial moves. If there is no floor beneath her she will exit levitation mode and gravity will take its course.

Down B Levitate (air): Palutena will slow down her fall as long as Down B is held.

Side B Light Chariot: A chariot crafted from light along with reins hooked up to two Centurions is conjured and Palutena charges forward in her ride a distance before the chariot and reins fade into light specks. The Centurions keep flying straight ahead as projectiles. Acts as a recovery, Palutena will enter free fall.

Up B Pillar of Light: Palutena teleports a short distance in any direction just like Mewtwo's Melee Up B. However, when she appears a vertical beam of light shoots below and above her doing slight damage.

B Light Sphere: A press of B will cause Palutena to shoot a homing orb of light that does damage with no stun. If B is held, Palutena could charge her attack to shoot two or three orbs of light. If two or more manage to hit the opponent in a short interval of time, the enemy will incur a little hitstun. Cannot be stored.

 

[monadoboy]

took a Crack at my prediction roster

and yes based off of if the leak is true or not

View attachment 145331

aaaand now I want Buzzwole in the game.
Thinking about it, Buzzwole might be the Pokemon newcomer. Actively used as promo and is an Ultra Beast, SM's shiny new thing, easy to see what makes him unique and tons of moveset potential.

 

[mario123007]

It doesn't matter what you think.

Sakurai specifically stated that he added Roy because he was a requested veteran return. He wanted to bring back a veteran from Melee and Brawl and after Mewtwo, Roy and Lucas were the most popular.

I was referring to his Melee inclusion but yeah..

It's extremely disrespectful to construct and spread lies about a real life man who deserves nothing, but respect. This is the guy who makes your Smash games and you repay him by going on the internet and slandering him and spreading misinformation to other users, accusing him of being biased and selfish.

Well... Way to go of making up my stance when it comes to Sakurai.
I'm not spreading false lies, I am saying this by looking at how he added Smash Bros characters. And that's why I mention "I THINK" in the first place. But I should add "I could be wrong" at the end though lol.

And look, I do respect Sakurai.... Only when it comes to his contribution on Smash Bros, but when it comes to his roster choice I will always give my own criticisms.

It's your problem for considering it as a fact because that was never how I stated, if I am wrong then point it out which you did, but then accusing me being disrespectful, that's a false claim right there.

Also simply taking my quote out of context when that was never the focus of my previous post... Good one...
How does this link to Bandana Dee's chance in Smash?

You can easily research this stuff instead of making stuff up in your head based on nothing.
http://sourcegaming.info/2016/02/23/nintendo-dream-interview-with-sakurai-part-2/

So... Back again, even if Sakurai adds them base on popularity, this still means that Bandana Dee could have the chance. So are other highly fan requested characters.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I was referring to his Melee inclusion but yeah..

Once again, though, you're wrong. That's not why Roy was added in Melee.

Well... Way to go of making up my stance when it comes to Sakurai.
I'm not spreading false lies, I am saying this by looking at how he added Smash Bros characters. And that's why I mention "I THINK" in the first place.

Okay, well if I say "I think mario123007 is just saying all this stuff because he hates Sakurai deep inside", I would still be spreading a lie.

 

[SchAlternate]

I think that, if customs are gone, Palutena should have most of these moves by default:

B: Heavenly Light, but made more practical, like hitting opponents at a faster rate while removing the pushing effect, or make it so she creates a narrow pillar that deals damage over time, and she can just move around while it's in effect (think of it like Wrastor's side B, but a vertical damaging pillar).

Side B: Reflect Barrier, but it starts faster, and made slightly more durable.

Up B: Warp, but maybe make her invincible/deal damage on the way out. (Or maybe Jump Glide, but you don't get royally boned if you get knocked out of it like with Wings of Icarus)

Down B: Lightweight, which is perhaps her best special in the game.

I think that setup not only is more practical, as well as being mildly versatile and varied, but also represents the character better as a whole, and is more fitting for an elegant deity to have than, say, Angelic Missile or Rocket Jump.

 

[Chandeelure]

Super Speed is too fun to not use as one of Palutena's Special Moves.

 

[Zerp]

Once again, though, you're wrong. That's not why Roy was added in Melee.

Okay, how do you know that Sakurai didn't get a chance to play Roy's game before release and didn't then decide to promote it because he liked the game? Can you prove that didn't happen? If not, you're lying, well, if "lying" means sharing even mere speculation on anything that isn't 100% backed up facts and statements like you seem to be implying it is.

 

[SchAlternate]

So am I the only one who thought of the way to get Ridley into smash?

Just make his include temporarily growin wings and you're (kind of) set.

Wouldn't it be more practical to just make Ridley the size of Mystery Creature?

Super Speed is too fun to not use as one of Palutena's Special Moves.

Oh right, that was another good one.

... Hm, that plus Lightweight sound like it would be busted, so either have them, but nerf one or the other, or have my altered Reflect Barrier as a Down B and Super Speed as Side B.

 

[Gumzilla]

Should even bother trying to interest people in the idea of a Fossil Fighters rep?

 

[Captain Shwampy]

I cant think of any way to ruin a Ridley reveal than using the Other M design

Thank god the Metroid 2 3ds remake uses the original design with some armor

 

[Gumzilla]

On a more serious note, wouldn't it be more practical to just make Ridley the size of Mystery Creature?

Well, as Sakurai has pointed out, it just wouldn't feel like Ridley. When I think of Ridley I think of a giant terrifying monster who wants nothing more then to kill anything that gets in his way, doing anything he can to reach his goals! Shrinking him, imo, would be disrespectful to the character. At least MC still has that monsterous flare to him! At least, in my opinion. And as for the argument that they shrunk Bowser for Smash.... Has anyone who says that played a Mario game? And as for up-scaling Olimar, Alph and the Pikmin?..... I'll get back to you on that.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Okay, how do you know that Sakurai didn't get a chance to play Roy's game before release and didn't then decide to promote it because he liked the game? Can you prove that didn't happen? If not, you're lying, well, if "lying" means sharing even mere speculation on anything that isn't 100% backed up facts and statements like you seem to be implying it is.

https://sourcegaming.info/2016/01/23/ocs-melee/

"Roy: Sakurai views Fire Emblem as one of Nintendo’s biggest franchises and mentioned that when he was deciding on clones, he wanted to make a clone of Marth. In the character data, Roy is listed as ‘EMBLEM’ which might shows us that Sakurai did not know which Fire Emblem character he wanted to use. It may also be a reflection of the fact that Roy did not have a definitive name at this time as early artwork refers to him as ‘Ike’ instead.

During this time, Roy’s game had gone through big development shifts, originally planned for the Nintendo 64 but then moved over to the GBA after the failure of that system. Sakurai saw Roy in the beta stages of his design and so his personality and appearance in Smash was heavily based on Sakurai’s interpretation of the character. This is why he differs a bit from his final version.

Roy shows perfectly how Sakurai might pick a character based on their relevancy and was one of my original influences for beginning this series of analysis. Roy was chosen because he was incredibly relevant to the current trends. His game was meant to come out before Melee and so in Japan, he would be in the public mind."

There's a lot more implications he couldn't have played his game, especially since it released after Melee.

 

[Chandeelure]

or have my altered Reflect Barrier as a Down B and Super Speed as Side B.

That would be awesome, I would definitely play more as her if she had those moves.

I cant think of any way to ruin a Ridley reveal than using the Other M design

Thank god the Metroid 2 3ds remake uses the original design with some armor

The thing in his head look like headphones.

 

[Deleted member]

View attachment 145342 Well other people are doing it and caving into peer pressure is cool right? Here's my "if the leak is true" prediction roster. More characters than I usually guess at, around 75 i think mattering to how you count miis, i usually go for 65-70 but part of this leak is that there are no cuts and they are going for the "ultimate" smash roster.

That said, I brought everyone back except pichu and young link as I think all the veterans scored high on the ballot and would have to be part of the "ultimate" end all roster. Squirtle and Ivysaur are back along with Eevee. yeah that a lot of pokemon reps, but if we are going back to kanto with a yellow remake satring pikachu/eevee I think this actually makes sense all things considered and two are just returning vets, much easier on the design team. I do think eevee has an amazing evolutions mechanic potential and i also think gamefreaks would have pushed sakurai to use him so i think it fits, again if the leaks are true. If simon is happening I expect Snake is returning and again with an ultimate roster and konami being involved AND the smash ballot... my guess is if the leaks true hes back along with most of the other cut veterans and going to konami was initially to GET snake back to satisfy the fans (as veterans seemed to universally score higher than anyone else on the ballot from the numbers ive seen people tally). Ice Climbers of course returns with the leak but again if we are bringing everyone back Wolfs back too once again due to the ballot and making the "ultimate" roster.

A lot of long time fan requested characters show up here, if ridleys in and we are going for pleasing the fans than dixie, k rool, waluigi, toad, waddle dee, simon, and geno are all highly requested characters and have been for a long time. Maybe im being biased with geno but i really think his time is now and that newcomer splash image his mii costume got... it just seems too fitting if everyones returning we still have square and cloud and if the ballot and the mii costumes were more of a tease for this next game, characters like geno and k rool and of course inkling all feel highly likely here and should be part of that ultimate fan roster. i dont think its absurd for DK to get two reps and dixie and k rool both seem highly requested and worthy. waluigi upgraded from an assist trophy and even when he was revealed as an assist trophy sakurai seemed to hint at "playability" and him not quite making the cut, with mario aces around this time it just feels right to have him in reping the sports games.

some of the odder choices, sakurai always throws curve balls with wtf reps and retro reps etc... I got chorus kids here for two reasons 1. they were already worked on for smash 4, this we know, and im guessing it was the same reason ice climbers were cut they didn't make it so heres the opportunity for that rhythm heaven rep (chorus kids or someone else) we know sakurai meant to add and 2. they got found out about and thus when it came time for the ballot they had fans, so sakurai might feel obligated to give us what he tried to give us in smash 4. Then theres takamaru, i just honestly just cant think of a better retro rep, a samurai is unique seems like the type of series sakurai would want to "revive" and its actively gotten more attention in the last few years than ever before. balloon fighter/excite biker are possible along with a few others (i like the hanafuda and labo idea but im wary of "guessing" at either for various reasons).

for really new reps we already got inkling but i also put in rex/pyra, i just have them both as some form of character as i dont know much about xenoblade but what i do know is sakurai said something about liking the new game, we have the series already established so a very new character may have been chosen while both games were still in development (unlike say, ARMS where i feel sakurai will "wait" to see the series staying power and it was too early to choose a brand new IP for a character spot).

Zelda i didnt add new reps for but i do think link and probably zelda will get overhauled with BOTW stuff so that might be enough to feel as though the series got attention. probably classic link/zelda alt costumes and maybe an impa alt costume for sheik? same with keeping alph and probly adding a toadette alt for captain toad, heck add daisy or anyone else who they could make work that way, i think alt costumes will be big this time honestly.

nothing new for FE i think after getting complaints of "too many reps" and no cuts this time plus corrin getting in at the end of the DLC, FE can sit tight right how it is and feel ok in this new roster that balances out a few series (metroid,dk) without any new reps for fire emblem. same for kid icarus, earthbound etc... i just think these series are where they should be. Animal crossing could certainly get a new rep but somehow i feel sakurai barely warmed up to the idea of villager so i think he'll see that as enough of a fighter rep and characters like isabelle and nook are better suited to assists and stages etc... thats just how i think sakurai sees the series not my personal feelings.

So thats my prediction as of right now with the leak, im open to criticism as i just took the leak and followed where it could go logically step by step. Also this would be the BASE roster which would be nuts considering DLC is basically a given, so theres a few other characters like rayman i think are highly likely but i found tough to find space for but still think they'd make it in by the end of it all. Also speaking of Rayman, i think its likely more third party characters could be added from companies like namco getting more reps or even an indy rep (shovel knight) but its just so tough to guess at those and i think like last time many might be saved for DLC as they tend to be pretty hype and will get people paying for em.

( Be aware headphone users )

That leak roster has a lack of newcomers in my book, but I like the details supporting them. You seem to have quite a lot of evidence.

So am I the only one who thought of the way to get Ridley into smash?

Just make his include temporarily growin wings and you're (kind of) set.

I highly disagree with this. Ridley's wings being utilized by his up-b would ruin Ridley's character. Ridley is notable with the wings, and removing them would make him not Ridley. Also Other-M content is not the best.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

The thing in his head look like headphones.

He's listening to "Caring and Supportive Funky Kong Gives You A Ride Home From The Airport" ASMR on Youtube

 

[mario123007]

Once again, though, you're wrong. That's not why Roy was added in Melee.

Then I am curious to know then...
And like I said, that was never the main focus... I was discussing about Bandana Dee...

https://sourcegaming.info/2016/01/23/ocs-melee/

"Roy: Sakurai views Fire Emblem as one of Nintendo’s biggest franchises and mentioned that when he was deciding on clones, he wanted to make a clone of Marth. In the character data, Roy is listed as ‘EMBLEM’ which might shows us that Sakurai did not know which Fire Emblem character he wanted to use. It may also be a reflection of the fact that Roy did not have a definitive name at this time as early artwork refers to him as ‘Ike’ instead.

During this time, Roy’s game had gone through big development shifts, originally planned for the Nintendo 64 but then moved over to the GBA after the failure of that system. Sakurai saw Roy in the beta stages of his design and so his personality and appearance in Smash was heavily based on Sakurai’s interpretation of the character. This is why he differs a bit from his final version.

Roy shows perfectly how Sakurai might pick a character based on their relevancy and was one of my original influences for beginning this series of analysis. Roy was chosen because he was incredibly relevant to the current trends. His game was meant to come out before Melee and so in Japan, he would be in the public mind."

There's a lot more implications he couldn't have played his game, especially since it released after Melee.

Which is why nobody shouldn't be that surprised when FE series has that much character in Smash 4...when Sakurai had already seen the series potential..

Okay, well if I say "I think mario123007 is just saying all this stuff because he hates Sakurai deep inside", I would still be spreading a lie.

Yes... Because that's just what you think.... Lol

At least we can all agree that Sakurai is really an unpredictable person. .

 

[Troykv]

https://sourcegaming.info/2016/01/23/ocs-melee/

"Roy: Sakurai views Fire Emblem as one of Nintendo’s biggest franchises and mentioned that when he was deciding on clones, he wanted to make a clone of Marth. In the character data, Roy is listed as ‘EMBLEM’ which might shows us that Sakurai did not know which Fire Emblem character he wanted to use. It may also be a reflection of the fact that Roy did not have a definitive name at this time as early artwork refers to him as ‘Ike’ instead.

During this time, Roy’s game had gone through big development shifts, originally planned for the Nintendo 64 but then moved over to the GBA after the failure of that system. Sakurai saw Roy in the beta stages of his design and so his personality and appearance in Smash was heavily based on Sakurai’s interpretation of the character. This is why he differs a bit from his final version.

Roy shows perfectly how Sakurai might pick a character based on their relevancy and was one of my original influences for beginning this series of analysis. Roy was chosen because he was incredibly relevant to the current trends. His game was meant to come out before Melee and so in Japan, he would be in the public mind."

There's a lot more implications he couldn't have played his game, especially since it released after Melee.

It's hard to play a game that is still under development... but yeah, Roy is quite an interesting case.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It's hard to play a game that is still under development... but yeah, Roy is quite an interesting case.

Exactly. He wasn't added cause he played the game, as it had different reasons.

Contrast his reasons for adding Robin over Chrom, who he was first interested in.

 

[SchAlternate]

Well, as Sakurai has pointed out, it just wouldn't feel like Ridley. When I think of Ridley I think of a giant terrifying monster who wants nothing more then to kill anything that gets in his way, doing anything he can to reach his goals! Shrinking him, imo, would be disrespectful to the character. At least MC still has that monsterous flare to him! At least, in my opinion.

Right, and putting him in his adolescent form which has access to none of his iconic abilities is somehow more respectful than just using his iconic design but shirking him to Bowser size?

Also, it should be illegal to suggest Other M content should be added in Smash 5.

And as for the argument that they shrunk Bowser for Smash.... Has anyone who says that played a Mario game? And as for up-scaling Olimar, Alph and the Pikmin?..... I'll get back to you on that.

lmao, I never said anything about that, but whatever. Bowser I can see being a flimsy excuse for that, but Olimar, it's obviously done for practical purposes, since in order to make him a feasible character, they needed him to be larger than usual, but still being one of the smaller fighters for the sake of consistency. The same logic would, theoretically, apply to Ridley. His size fluctuated between being only a head taller than Samus, to be big enough to fit her whole in his mouth, but that would of course never flow. So just make him about the size of Bowser, maybe slightly taller, and voila.

And if you think that would make him look odd next to Samus, reminder that Palutena was made Pit sized in Smash 4, despite having radically different proportions.

And before you say it, I don't care that there is a canonical justification for it, it STILL looks weird as hell, yet absolutely no one bats an eye. So why would anyone care with Ridley?

 

[Zinith]

I actually rather like Other M

 

[BlondeLombax]

Well, as Sakurai has pointed out, it just wouldn't feel like Ridley. When I think of Ridley I think of a giant terrifying monster who wants nothing more then to kill anything that gets in his way, doing anything he can to reach his goals! Shrinking him, imo, would be disrespectful to the character. At least MC still has that monsterous flare to him! At least, in my opinion. And as for the argument that they shrunk Bowser for Smash.... Has anyone who says that played a Mario game? And as for up-scaling Olimar, Alph and the Pikmin?..... I'll get back to you on that.

Honestly, I've been looking at the subject for a while, and honestly, I doubt that it's about Olimar's size when it comes down to it - rather it's his perspective that's the biggest issue. See, if you think about it, Olimar is the size he is because it's from his own point of view, meaning that his canonical size genuinely is that as we see it in Smash, meaning that the other characters would be his size. The existence of the Pikmin stages provides credence to this theory, as the fighters remain the same size, yet the giant ceramics and such appear in the backgrounds of the stage.
That being said, I still have an idea to how Ridley could be turned into a playable character; simply scale him to his size in Super Metroid: sure, he'd still be huge, but it would be an adequate enough size for him to be playable. In fact, him being the biggest character in the game could potentially be his big gimmick (pun-intended). It's comparable to characters such as the playable Sentinel in the Marvel Vs. Capcom games, who is still huge, but is just small enough to be considered a genuine fighter on the roster.

I don't actually have the game myself, though, so if somebody could snap a picture of the Sentinel alongside Ryu in-game and make a size-chart featuring them both, along with Samus and SM-Ridley, then we could get a potential look at what he would look like.

 

[Lyndis_]

I haven't been able to keep up with all the discussion.. so what is the general consensus about the DasVergeben leak? I know it's been talked about a lot, but it's littered throughout a lot of pages with random pieces that would be too much to put together right now.

I think it's notable how they mentioned Pokemon Switch being a Kanto game, but I'm not sure whether that was before or after all the Pokemon Lets Go! stuff started gaining traction.

The "Smash Switch is a new game with reused assets to some extent" is basically a something-nothing since it's all but confirmed to be a new game and pretty much every Smash game has had assets reused in at least some form. I at least know Smash 4 did with some Brawl assets.

No cuts is a bold statement. Another Capcom rep wouldn't be that surprising since they have just so many IPs.

It's also noteworthy he says he trusts Ridley being in, but that Simon Belmont and Ice Climbers come from a different source.

The idea of Ridley being in also lines up with the ResetEra leaks / "speculation." I refuse to believe any of it until confirmed by Nintendo just because Ridley is probably my #1 first party and I refuse to disappoint myself, lol.

 

[osby]

Honestly, I've been looking at the subject for a while, and honestly, I doubt that it's about Olimar's size when it comes down to it - rather it's his perspective that's the biggest issue. See, if you think about it, Olimar is the size he is because it's from his own point of view, meaning that his canonical size genuinely is that as we see it in Smash, meaning that the other characters would be his size. The existence of the Pikmin stages provides credence to this theory, as the fighters remain the same size, yet the giant ceramics and such appear in the backgrounds of the stage.
That being said, I still have an idea to how Ridley could be turned into a playable character; simply scale him to his size in Super Metroid: sure, he'd still be huge, but it would be an adequate enough size for him to be playable. In fact, him being the biggest character in the game could potentially be his big gimmick (pun-intended). It's comparable to characters such as the playable Sentinel in the Marvel Vs. Capcom games, who is still huge, but is just small enough to be considered a genuine fighter on the roster.

I don't actually have the game myself, though, so if somebody could snap a picture of the Sentinel alongside Ryu in-game and make a size-chart featuring them both, along with Samus and SM-Ridley, then we could get a potential look at what he would look like.

Could work, but it'd still be hard. Smash has platforming and a lot of physics involved. If they had to include Ridley, he'll need to work in all stages, returning and coming back.

And it doesn't help in most of his designs his wings stands taller than he is, artificially making him taller.

 

[Blargg888]

The Olimar-Kirby argument was always rather flimsy anyway, since it focuses too much on the literal side of the argument without addressing the relative side.

The Bowser argument holds more water, but it still suffers from a lack of specifics.

There are much better counterarguments in Ridley's favor than those two. Whenever I see those arguments, I can't help but just feel like they don't really serve to prove anything.

As for my personal opinion on Ridley, I don't really mind either way if he's in or not.

That being said, I still have an idea to how Ridley could be turned into a playable character; simply scale him to his size in Super Metroid: sure, he'd still be huge, but it would be an adequate enough size for him to be playable. In fact, him being the biggest character in the game could potentially be his big gimmick (pun-intended). It's comparable to characters such as the playable Sentinel in the Marvel Vs. Capcom games, who is still huge, but is just small enough to be considered a genuine fighter on the roster.

I don't actually have the game myself, though, so if somebody could snap a picture of the Sentinel alongside Ryu in-game and make a size-chart featuring them both, along with Samus and SM-Ridley, then we could get a potential look at what he would look like.

I feel like making him actually big is an interesting idea, but it could potentially cause problems.
If Ridley is made big, what happens when he gets a Super Mushroom? What about the reverse lightning mega effect? That could pose an actual issue in terms of size. There could be other issues too, like with certain stage layouts and bonus modes.

While a big character similar to the likes of big characters from traditional fighters sounds like an unique and intriguing idea, I'm not sure a game like Smash is the best fit for that kind of character.

If they can implement it well though, I'd be interested in seeing it.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Right, and putting him in his adolescent form which has access to none of his iconic abilities is somehow more respectful than just using his iconic design but shirking him to Bowser size?

Also, it should be illegal to suggest Other M content should be added in Smash 5.


lmao, I never said anything about that, but whatever. Bowser I can see being a flimsy excuse for that, but Olimar, it's obviously done for practical purposes, since in order to make him a feasible character, they needed him to be larger than usual, but still being one of the smaller fighters for the sake of consistency. The same logic would, theoretically, apply to Ridley. His size fluctuated between being only a head taller than Samus, to be big enough to fit her whole in his mouth, but that would of course never flow. So just make him about the size of Bowser, maybe slightly taller, and voila.

And if you think that would make him look odd next to Samus, reminder that Palutena was made Pit sized in Smash 4, despite having radically different proportions.

View attachment 145360

And before you say it, I don't care that there is a canonical justification for it, it STILL looks weird as hell, yet absolutely no one bats an eye. So why would anyone care with Ridley?

Because Ridley's size has always been consistent in that he's significantly larger than Samus.

Bowser and Palutena's sizes are inconsistent in their corresponding universe. At least in the sense that they've both been of reasonable size in comparison to Mario & Pit. This is not the case with Ridley & Samus. The only exception is the original Metroid and I'm sorry, but that doesn't count. One, because after that game, he's always appeared as extremely bigger than Samus. Two, All of the monsters were Samus's size because of limitations, so this is the Ridley you'd be proposing appear in Smash

This is the smallest interpretation of Ridley you will find that really counts:

You could make this Ridley slightly smaller, and his limbs and wings wouldn't be an issue, because unless he's attacking, they retract into his hunched body. This is the interpretation of Ridley that appears on the cover as not too much larger than Samus and in the opening movie for Super Smash Bros Melee, in which he's about the size of Bowser compared to Mario. I feel like it wouldn't be too unreasonable to downsize this one slightly, but it would still be awkward.

You can't compare Bowser's size to Ridley's size because Bowser's size changes constantly throughout his series. Ridley's doesn't. The only time his size changes is when he's way bigger than before, never smaller.

There are other things that bring up issues besides size too, like characters being able to grab and throw Ridley, which is a disservice to his portrayal in Metroid games where such a thing would be absurd. There is also the issue with some people not liking Ridley getting his ass handed to him by Master Hand and other enemies, which seems implausible.

These are not the be all end all to him not working, but you can't just ignore those issues.

 

[Deathcarter]

Should even bother trying to interest people in the idea of a Fossil Fighters rep?

Do it. Even if few care, there's no harm in posting you ideas on the character. In the end, all this speculation is all in good fun at the end of the day for most of us.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Can people please stop comparing Ridley to Bowser. The argument falls apart like a freaking jenga tower.

Bowser's size inconsistency works because his size is inconsistent in the games he appears in. This is not the case for Ridley. Ridley is always significantly larger than Samus. Metroid on NES doesn't count.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Because Ridley's size has always been consistent in that he's significantly larger than Samus.

Bowser and Palutena's sizes are inconsistent in their corresponding universe. At least in the sense that they've both been of reasonable size in comparison to Mario & Pit. This is not the case with Ridley & Samus. The only exception is the original Metroid and I'm sorry, but that doesn't count. One, because after that game, he's always appeared as extremely bigger than Samus. Two, All of the monsters were Samus's size because of limitations, so this is the Ridley you'd be proposing appear in Smash

Never thought I'd ever want to cuddle a genocidal space dragon in my entire life as much as I do now. Yeah, this little guy wouldn't even qualify as Ridley Jr.

 

[SvartWolf]

Being big is more often a liability than a boon, although with big frame usually comes tons of reach, thats being big plus. Regarding ridley, i dont think that he can be too big withouth giving him stupid amounts of reach, which means that he would need extreme balances akin to little mac. probably thats the biggest design hurdle sakurai is having, considering that unlike bowser and dedede short limbs, ridley frame have very long limbs and tail.

Also ridley mobility is another of its selling factors, and is not easy to sedign a powerful character with lots of reach and high mobility ( cloud says hi BTW)

I think that there are a couple of interesting ways to balance it withouth giving tons of lag, thus making him unusable. Blind spots, on his long reach attacks (instead of sourspots), terrible landings and landing options could also balance multiple jumps and overall good aerials. Lightweight coupled with big frame could balance a great recovery (ask mewtwo) etc...

 

[Lyndis_]

I honestly don't see an issue with shrinking Ridley down at all. It seems the opinion that he'd look wrong shrunk at all in Smash comes mostly from those who wouldn't care about him being in / the Metroid series enough to begin with.

I'd prefer a shrunken Ridley over a big one in Smash, however I'm not against a big Ridley entirely. If they can make it work, good on them. I'll be happy either way, and a platform fighter is the best genre to have a big character, wouldn't it be? Stages are much more open than in a traditional 1-on-1 fighter.

Melee Intro Ridley is still my ideal Ridley size. I don't think it looks off at all to have them be at about that height. (I know the distance probably makes Ridley look smaller, but I'm taking that out of the picture to talk about just the size from the perspective.)

The wings are big, but I don't see why he'd have to have them out all the time (or even at all outside of a recovery...), he's perfectly capable of just jumping and his wings fold up / can be shrunk down to be more like the Super Metroid sprite so I see no issue there.

Being big is more often a liability than a boon, although with big frame usually comes tons of reach, thats being big plus. Regarding ridley, i dont think that he can be too big withouth giving him stupid amounts of reach, which means that he would need extreme balances akin to little mac. probably thats the biggest design hurdle sakurai is having, considering that unlike bowser and dedede short limbs, ridley frame have very long limbs and tail.

Also ridley mobility is another of its selling factors, and is not easy to sedign a powerful character with lots of reach and high mobility ( cloud says hi BTW)

I think that there are a couple of interesting ways to balance it withouth giving tons of lag, thus making him unusable. Blind spots, on his long reach attacks (instead of sourspots), terrible landings and landing options could also balance multiple jumps and overall good aerials. Lightweight coupled with big frame could balance a great recovery (ask mewtwo) etc...

Ridley's size could definitely be argued to always be way bigger than Samus if you ignore NES Ridley, but I think his mobility (or more specifically, his speed) is actually super inconsistent.

It's mainly for gameplay purposes but in some games he's incredibly fast, and in others he moves as slow as molasses and everything he does is super choreographed. I would be fine with any direction Nintendo would decide to go with that, honestly.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

I haven't been able to keep up with all the discussion.. so what is the general consensus about the DasVergeben leak? I know it's been talked about a lot, but it's littered throughout a lot of pages with random pieces that would be too much to put together right now.

I think it's notable how they mentioned Pokemon Switch being a Kanto game, but I'm not sure whether that was before or after all the Pokemon Lets Go! stuff started gaining traction.

The "Smash Switch is a new game with reused assets to some extent" is basically a something-nothing since it's all but confirmed to be a new game and pretty much every Smash game has had assets reused in at least some form. I at least know Smash 4 did with some Brawl assets.

No cuts is a bold statement. Another Capcom rep wouldn't be that surprising since they have just so many IPs.

It's also noteworthy he says he trusts Ridley being in, but that Simon Belmont and Ice Climbers come from a different source.

The idea of Ridley being in also lines up with the ResetEra leaks / "speculation." I refuse to believe any of it until confirmed by Nintendo just because Ridley is probably my #1 first party and I refuse to disappoint myself, lol.

The general consensus is that we shouldn't expect it to be true, since he did make mistakes.
However I'm pretty stupid so I fully trust this.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I honestly don't see an issue with shrinking Ridley down at all. It seems the opinion that he'd look wrong shrunk at all in Smash comes mostly from those who wouldn't care about him being in / the Metroid series enough to begin with.

I'd prefer a shrunken Ridley over a big one in Smash, however I'm not against a big Ridley entirely. If they can make it work, good on them. I'll be happy either way, and a platform fighter is the best genre to have a big character, wouldn't it be? Stages are much more open than in a traditional 1-on-1 fighter.

Melee Intro Ridley is still my ideal Ridley size. I don't think it looks off at all to have them be at about that height. (I know the distance probably makes Ridley look smaller, but I'm taking that out of the picture to talk about just the size from the perspective.)

The wings are big, but I don't see why he'd have to have them out all the time (or even at all outside of a recovery...), he's perfectly capable of just jumping and his wings fold up / can be shrunk down to be more like the Super Metroid sprite so I see no issue there.


Ridley's size could definitely be argued to always be way bigger than Samus if you ignore NES Ridley, but I think his mobility (or more specifically, his speed) is actually super inconsistent.

It's mainly for gameplay purposes but in some games he's incredibly fast, and in others he moves as slow as molasses and everything he does is super choreographed. I would be fine with any direction Nintendo would decide to go with that, honestly.

It's not just people who don't care if he's in or not. It's game designers. Like Sakurai and probably those who worked on Metroid games.

I think the issue is people who don't see an issue with clipping Ridley's size because they care more about having him as a playable character than having him portrayed in an accurate and dignifying manner that's true to the series.

I'm sure there's plenty of Star Wars fans that would have liked to see Boba Fett come back to life in The Last Jedi and have a light saber fight with ghost Yoda. But, then there's also fans who take Star Wars very seriously and would not take too kindly to Disney doing something so absurd just to please fans.

If you were a Star Wars fan and someone said "I don't see a problem with that", you'd probably be pretty outraged.

I'm not on the side that it can't work, and I'd love to see Ridley. But, you can't just go "Well who cares if they totally change what everyone knows Ridley to be?"

 

[Koopaul]

I think you're missing his point.

Just adding Bandanna Waddle Dee for the sake of "Kirby needs another character" isn't a good reason in itself. He has merit and is a great idea. But that alone should be enough, not "cause we need more Kirby characters". Nobody should be added due to the silly reason of needing a character. They have their own merits. There's good reasons. Whether it's "ooh, we have time and this could be fun and interesting", while still thinking of how the character could overall add to the game. Even the clones fit this, as whether they're costumes first or unique ideas that work, each one added in Melee had merits as their own character too. Not a single one wasn't a reasonable notable character or at least were a fun idea presented(Roy is the latter).

That's not entirely true. They always add a new Pokemon into Smash for the sake of adding a new Pokemon.

Sakurai approached Game Freak about the new Pokemon and made Greninja based ofc of concept art. So yes, they were purposely looking to add a new character from the Pokemon series for the sake of adding a new Pokemon.

 

[SonicMario]

I think part of the whole Metroidvania On Ice rumor was that his Namco Bandai-involved game stuff tends to pretty accurate? Like I think it was said he correctly leaked who was going to be the DLC characters for Dragonball FighterZ. And some more stuff he managed to get out early for other Namco involved games. And since we know thanks to a goof up from a former Namco employee. Namco is involved in Smash Switch. So there's some degree of credence there that nothing else has had so far.

Always keep an open mind with stuff like this. But it's good to have at least something that needs to be actually disproven or confirmed by the game itself rather then random fake leaks that pop out randomly to try to trick people which are always quite rampant in Smash speculation scenes.

If it's real, good. We get no cuts which would be absolutely amazing. And all 3 of the characters would be awesome additions. If it's not, then we have a completely blind start into what the game's roster has for us. At least the Leak regardless if it's real or fake has provided some possible information that has been sorely lacking throughout all of the time where we've known Smash Switch was official these past 2 months. Even though we don't know 100% sure if it's all true. I already feel like as if we got something in between the time of when the trailer dropped to all the way to E3.

 

[Nu~]

Aight, so this is my dream+"realistic within enough reason" Smash Switch roster. I took Miis off the CSS so it wouldn't throw off the order I was going for (plus, the bottom row's size and position emphasizes the fact that 3rd parties are a small pool of veeery special guests imo). They should be a selection attached to the character icon box anyway tbh.

I kinda incorporated all of the leaks but assumed that all were telling only a part of the truth (like the smash 4 leaks). For example, I predict (and very much desire) that Alucard will be getting in instead of Simon, similar to the leak last speculation cycle when the leak said Chrom, Little Mac, and Pac-Man, yet we got Robin in place of Chrom because he was the more unique and interesting protagonist in Awakening even if he wasn't THE face of it...at the time at least.

And yes, I think we're getting more Fire Emblem characters. The series is just far too big now to not expect at least some. Also, Hector, Lyn, and Anna are some of THE most popular Fire Emblem characters not in smash atm and can all add something unique to smash in terms of either how they fight or what weapons they use.

Fire away


Edit: Crap...forgot Rayman. He has some serious star power rn and I can definitely see him in.

 

[Lyndis_]

It's not just people who don't care if he's in or not. It's game designers. Like Sakurai and probably those who worked on Metroid games.

I think the issue is people who don't see an issue with clipping Ridley's size because they care more about having him as a playable character than having him portrayed in an accurate and dignifying manner that's true to the series.

I'm sure there's plenty of Star Wars fans that would have liked to see Boba Fett come back to life in The Last Jedi and have a light saber fight with ghost Yoda. But, then there's also fans who take Star Wars very seriously and would not take too kindly to Disney doing something so absurd just to please fans.

If you were a Star Wars fan and someone said "I don't see a problem with that", you'd probably be pretty outraged.

I'm not on the side that it can't work, and I'd love to see Ridley. But, you can't just go "Well who cares if they totally change what everyone knows Ridley to be?"

Well I'm definitely not saying it's 100% people that don't care, just that from the perspective of what I've seen it seems to be mostly people that don't care. I'm speaking from how the internet discusses Ridley in Smash at large.

I've never actually seen the perspective of someone who has worked on a Metroid game. Is there any out there?

That's not entirely true. They always add a new Pokemon into Smash for the sake of adding a new Pokemon.

Sakurai approached Game Freak about the new Pokemon and made Greninja based ofc of concept art. So yes, they were purposely looking to add a new character from the Pokemon series for the sake of adding a new Pokemon.

Pokemon is a very specific and special case, though. Pokemon characters are added a bit differently from how other series are.

 

[One winged Devil]

Does anyone have a picture of a character with a super mushroom effect while next to Ridley in Smash 4?

 

[AreJay25]

I think part of the whole Castlevania On Ice rumor was that his Namco Bandai-involved game stuff tends to pretty accurate? Like I think it was said he correctly leaked who was going to be the DLC characters for Dragonball FighterZ. And some more stuff he managed to get out early for other Namco involved games. And since we know thanks to a goof up from a former Namco employee. Namco is involved in Smash Switch. So there's some degree of credence there that nothing else has had so far.

His DBFZ info was all over the place.

Basically, he only really got 2 characters (Base Goku and Vegeta) right. Technically 4, but the other 2 (Bardock and Broly) were essentially locks anyways.

The rest just flat out didn't happen. On top of that, a character he said would be DLC (Goku Black) ended up on the base roster, and once he and 2 other characters were revealed, he actually went back and edited his post to make it seem like he called that beforehand.
And then, once the game was datamined and it turned out only the aforementioned 4 characters were a part of the DLC pack, he once again went back and tried to claim he leaked the rest.

So, he may have had some credibility on that front, but the stuff he did in the aftermath makes him seem pretty damn dubious.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That's not entirely true. They always add a new Pokemon into Smash for the sake of adding a new Pokemon.

Not really. That's literally only the case of with Greninja, as he wanted one solely from that generation. But if there was no feasible option? Wouldn't have happened.

Also, it wasn't just because it was "new Pokemon", it was because Pokemon is a vast cast of members with tons of potential, so he looks towards it, but also looks towards the anime and movies for the most prominent Pokemon.

Adding Bandanna Waddle Dee literally cause "I need a new character" is a bit silly. It doesn't have a point. The Kirby series is pretty well represented even without it, and doesn't heavily change its cast or introduce new characters often. Pokemon is not like that, nor Fire Emblem, or even Mario at this point. They're different. I'm all for Dee myself, but the merits of the character outweigh the idea of "we suddenly need a new Kirby character".