Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Tree Gelbman]

Baby Mario seems like something that would never happen.

Sakurai: Here punch a baby.

ESRB:

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Pair him up with Baby Luigi for an Ice Climber-type duo and consider me on board. Imagine exactly what they could accomplish. Maybe pull a few moves from Partners in Time, perhaps?

My vision of Baby Mario is of him wearing the yellow cape from Yoshi's Island and making use of the power it gives him. Partners in Time could provide him with a hammer, and there's more source material from Yoshi's Island such as his famous bubble and the stork. Toys are something else that could be implemented too.

I disagree with him being paired up with Baby Luigi, because it would take away what makes Ice Climbers unique. Maybe he could call upon help from other babies through the stork though.

By the way, if we're talking about "deserving all-stars" I would definitely bring up Pauline before King K. Rool.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I'm still amused that somehow the ESRB doesn't throw a fit about things like:

Bowser vs Bowser Jr.

And Lucina vs Robin.

Or beating up on Ness, Lucas, and Toon Link.

I guess the last three are yeah they are children, but having a sword and Psionic powers as a kid means it's totally okay to beat your ass.

Still Bowser vs Bowser Jr aand Lucina vs Robin is amusing. Especially Bowser vs Bowser Jr.

ESRB: Yes, Mr. Sakurai it is fine to show Bowser body slam his son.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Baby Mario seems like something that would never happen.

Sakurai: Here punch a baby.

ESRB:

You can punch a dog and Baby Mario has been involved in cartoon violence in Mario & Luigi 2.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

You can punch a dog and Baby Mario has been involved in cartoon violence in Mario & Luigi 2.

The dog is a cartoon dog from a game with a gun at it's helm and in the VS Mode. You could literally shoot him. Not to mention Duck Hunt is technically a sketch game about animal abuse anyways, depending on how you feel about hunting animals as a human being.

Baby Mario is literally a baby. A human baby wearing a diaper. Yes. He's a cartoon. But I very much doubt they'd allow things like him being run over by Falcon in a car, Bayonetta feeding him to a demon, etc, etc.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Young Link is a strange mix-match from OoT and MM when all they had to do was give him a full Majora's design. Change his items to their Majora's versions and it makes perfect sense for him to use them.

Uh, no. Every version of Link is a composite character design who uses the most iconic of moves. Young Link can't do the Downthrust or Upthrust either. It's clearly not just a pure representation of one game or another.

Ganondorf being all about "power" means little.

Other than being his most defining trait and literally the most important part of the character called Ganon(who is the same person as Ganondorf), being the wielder of Triforce of Power, you mean?

Imagine if Ganondorf never got in, and people argued that he could be a Falcon clone because of proportions? That wouldn't fly anywhere. People would argue that he obviously uses magic, floats and has a sword or a trident to represent past Ganons. (I don't want to get more into Zelda because I could write an essay on why Smash treats Zelda like ****.) It's the same thing with many visually similar characters like Funky and Dark Samus. Yes, obviously they have stuff that sets them apart as unique, but that means nothing if they're getting as clones for X or Y reasons. It's totally possible for Dark Samus to get in as a clone with Phazon-colored Screw Attack/Missiles/Charge Shot/etc.

Ganondorf did not use a Sword or Trident in OOT, the first game. If that's the only one to go off of? No, he would have no weapon. It'd be irrelevant. He also has never used a Trident in any canon game. That's explicitly Moblin Ganon's weapon. HW is irrelevant in that. Hell, Moblin Ganon used Swords first. This isn't even counting the fact that Ganondorf is still using magic here. It's just physical magic. Something that is an actual thing. The lack of a projectile is jarring, agreed, but by the time it could've been implemented in Brawl, tons of Zelda characters already used it, even ones not remotely related to Ganon or Ganondorf in someway. It became just a really interesting move to use, not a signature move for Ganondorf. Ganondorf actually lacks any real signature moves.

Funky and Dark Samus aren't in the same boat. Funky does not share any remote potential animations and has a very different body frame and style. Ganondorf does not look awkward with Falcon's animations in comparison. It still fits his actual character really well. Dark Samus could be that, but we've seen the character in Smash already using different moves. Ganondorf also has shown the compete capability to do the things he does in Smash. None of it comes off as weird for him to channel his triforce and magic into more physical attacks. Again, there is no questioning his trait is POWER. It's who he is. If he isn't showing that off, it's really inaccurate to him. He's a power character through and through in the Zelda series. Unofficial games aside.

The problem with Dark Pit it's that him being a total clone is a disservice to his character in Uprising. It might seem like it fits, with him being a literal clone, but a good part of his character is trying to set himself apart. Should've explained that better.

So then he wouldn't be in the game at all otherwise. Still fits him as he doesn't actually have different abilities than Pit whatsoever. And he still separates himself in Smash by using different weapons(bar the Orbitars). So he's acting extremely accurate. The issue is that he's not interesting to play as because you can't formulate a new strategy with him, unlike the other clones. It has nothing to do with the fact he's actually severely accurate to Uprising.

 

[Minch]

It's interesting to see the general consensus of the new Pokemon rep change over time.

At first it was overwhelming Decidueye support.
Whereas this Pokemon isn't as high prestige as the others to appear in the series it has the type advantage.
Smash already has a fully evolved starter for the water and fire types so it would make sense to complete the circle with a fully evolved grass starter. It is also a rep from the newest Pokemon series and Pokken has proved it would be a great fighter.

But now with the games and anime pushing Lycanroc more into the spotlight it seems like the fanbase is splitting.
This character also represents the Sun and Moon era and would be a really unique addition.
Being on four legs would add for some interesting gameplay, especially since it couldn't pull off the moves that Duck Hunt does.
But how far does the popularity of this character go? Does it reach Greninja level heights? Or will it taper off once this era is complete.

But now we're seeing some other options pop up.

Mimikyu is a name I see a lot. Also another rep from Sun and Moon.
Definitely would have an interesting moveset.
This Pokemon was also a hit once it was announced and has seen a lot of spotlight in the anime.
However I think being a pokeball Pokemon would make the most sense for this character.

Another one is Meowth.
He continues to be a prominent character in the anime and has been for years.
However I feel like the ship has sailed for Meowth to be playable.
If he made it into Smash 64 over Jigglypuff than he would still be on the roster today.
But adding Meowth this late into the game would be strange.
He would for sure be welcome and a good choice, but just a weird choice.

Last up is Eevee.
This support push has only come from the recent Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee Pokemon Switch rumours.
If this turns out to be true, then Eevee might just be the perfect wtf character inclusion.
It has always been a popular Pokemon in the series, and has enough potential to be an interesting fighter.
Calling on the power of the Eeveelutions for attacks would make for a completely new concept.
There is a lot of potential for this Pokemon, so I back it.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

The dog is a cartoon dog from a game with a gun at it's helm and in the VS Mode. You could literally shoot him. Not to mention Duck Hunt is technically a sketch game about animal abuse anyways, depending on how you feel about hunting animals as a human being.

Baby Mario is literally a baby. A human baby wearing a diaper. Yes. He's a cartoon. But I very much doubt they'd allow things like him being run over by Falcon in a car, Bayonetta feeding him to a demon, etc, etc.

I think you're really overestimating how much ESRB would care. If it was a real baby unable to defend itself, then that would be an issue. There are a lot of cartoon Baby characters in TV & Video Games that get away with this.

 

[majorasmaskfan]

Energy tennis balls are gannon's Kamehameha. Wind waker his shadow uses it, and in twilight princess he uses them through puppet Zelda.

 

[Bowserlick]

A Birdo E3 reveal would floor people.

 

[Lyndis_]

Yeah, I agree that ESRB really wouldn't care unless we were going back to Brawl's edginess.

They didn't care about Mario Kart, where you can hit them with shells, electrocute them, run them over, etc; it's not that big of a deal. Cartoon Violence, which they already rate in Smash.

If Baby Mario was considered but didn't get in because of him being a baby, it'd just be because it made Sakurai or other higher ups uncomfortable, not because of ESRB.

I don't think Baby Mario would or should ever happen though. They entire function is just being the health bar in Yoshi's Island, and Yoshi is already in the game.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I think you're really overestimating how much ESRB would care. If it was a real baby unable to defend itself, then that would be an issue. There are a lot of cartoon Baby characters in TV & Video Games that get away with this.

I think you're underestimating. Mario and Luigi is all in a very artsy cartoon style with a very fantasy world and enemies that aren't human looking.

In Smash? You'd have very human characters like Samus, Shulk, the Fire Emblem cast, Zelda, Link, Bayonetta, Ryu, Cloud, etc beating the crap out of this little baby.

It would not go over well AT all. Now there might be some leeway because of the fact Ness and Lucas are so young, but I just can't see them allowing a baby into a game like Smash where some of the characters are made to be realistic human beings despite their extraordinary abilities.

THE ESRB definitely cares about things like this. It'd be a very sensitive subject.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I mainly wouldn't care for Baby Mario/Baby Bros in Smash because I don't want a 3rd version of Mario.

Gimme something different.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

The cartoon violence in Mario Kart is also not the same to the violence in Smash Brothers.

Smash Brothers has guns (even fake ones, but with Bayonetta you have someone who is shooting actual bullets), swords, demons, giant monsters, real explosives, etc, etc.

The violence might seem and is fake like Mario Kart, but it's kind of on another level, for sure the ESRB would look heavily at someone like Baby Mario and go ''Yeah, we can't allow this without bumping up the rating."

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Energy tennis balls are gannon's Kamehameha. Wind waker his shadow uses it, and in twilight princess he uses them through puppet Zelda.

So why are the Cubus Sisters in Phantom Hourglass and a Blue Stalfos using it?

It's really not. They dropped the idea of it being important to him even before Brawl(which makes it easy to see why it's such an irrelevant move to add to him when he only used it actually once. In fact, Puppet Zelda used it in Brawl, not him). It also is more Agnahim's move first, not Ganondorf's. Ganon, as in the actual pig, never once uses it(Yuga Ganon does, but that's fully Yuga in control anyway, who is Ganondorf's Lorule Counterpart). It's used by multiple non-Ganon-related characters(Agnahim is at least Ganon's original human form in ALTTP). It's just a move they like using as a fun and interesting boss idea. Hell, it can't even be tied to humanoid characters, as Gouen, who is basically a living fireball, does it. Vaati Transfigured too, which is basically just a floating eyeball, kind of like Patra's design.

It's not something really tied to Ganondorf. Even Twinrova uses it in the Oracle games. I could go on about how it's not really tied to Ganon whatsoever anymore, or his forms. But it's pointless to do so. It's just a fact that it really isn't a remote representation of Ganondorf's signature abilities at all. It's just one of the cool moves that's heavily used among tons of Zelda bosses.

Ganondorf's biggest signature ability has always been the use of his Triforce of Power to performs ridiculous feats, including transforming into Ganon. Something he actually already represents well in Smash.

 

[Sage of Ice]

It's interesting to see the general consensus of the new Pokemon rep change over time.

At first it was overwhelming Decidueye support.
Whereas this Pokemon isn't as high prestige as the others to appear in the series it has the type advantage.
Smash already has a fully evolved starter for the water and fire types so it would make sense to complete the circle with a fully evolved grass starter. It is also a rep from the newest Pokemon series and Pokken has proved it would be a great fighter.

But now with the games and anime pushing Lycanroc more into the spotlight it seems like the fanbase is splitting.
This character also represents the Sun and Moon era and would be a really unique addition.
Being on four legs would add for some interesting gameplay, especially since it couldn't pull off the moves that Duck Hunt does.
But how far does the popularity of this character go? Does it reach Greninja level heights? Or will it taper off once this era is complete.

i was team lycanroc before i was team decidueye! coming here i noticed the archer seemed to be more agreed upon, and i like em both about the same so i shrugged and hopped onto the bandwagon. either one would make me just as happy tbh, they're my favorites of gen 7 by a wide margin, and among my favorites of their respective types

i'd give mimikyu a chance too. meowth and eevee don't interest me so much but i'd respect 'em getting in

 

[SuperMasterHand]

People were joking about Spiderman but when I think about the Fortnite and Avengers crossover, i tell myself : THANOS for Smash !
Ok nevermind this

Can someone explain me the sudden Evee hype? Like where does it come from? (anyway Evee is too small for Smash ;D)

My boy Rodley seems to be leaked so let's believe !

 

[Radical Bones]

We already had a baby character in Smash though everyone.

Spoiler

Pichu

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Yeah, I agree that ESRB really wouldn't care unless we were going back to Brawl's edginess.

They didn't care about Mario Kart, where you can hit them with shells, electrocute them, run them over, etc; it's not that big of a deal. Cartoon Violence, which they already rate in Smash.

I don't think Baby Mario would or should ever happen though. They entire function is just being the health bar in Yoshi's Island, and Yoshi is already in the game.

I'm sorry, but I gotta call you out on this.

I can not stand this "Well, this character never did nothing, but this" argument. First of all, Baby Mario has been in other games besides Yoshi's Island. He's been in various spin off titles as well as a playable protagonist in Mario & Luigi. And he definitely aids Yoshi in his adventures beyond being a health bar.

Second of all, what kind of argument is this? "What did Zelda ever do, man? Just stand there at the end of the game? All Falco ever did was complain!"

It's almost like your intentionally trying to cheapen and grossly over simplify the worth of a character. Which you are in fact doing. What matters is if a character is popular and if they work as a fighter. The extent of their usefulness in the corresponding game they debuted in is not what matters.

The way people here measure a character's worth is all out of wack. Taking a character like King K. Rool that's been dead for ten years and going "Well, he was a villain once so that means he's important." and then taking someone like Cranky Kong, who's been a vocal presence in every Donkey Kong Country game since Donkey Kong Country existed and going "He just a dumb old man that don't do nutin, but give you hints!"

This is becoming a tangent, but that's another thing. Being a villain doesn't mean crap. At least apparently not the man himself, Ganondorf wasn't even originally going to be in Melee, he wasn't even on Sakurai's radar, and their are plenty of villains that don't get in just for being villains. Andross, Giygas, Ridley, Samurai Goroh, Pokey, Kamek, Captain Syrup, Medusa/Hades, Metal Face.

You can't just go "Well, they are the villain of this franchise!". King K. Rool is long dead. He's one of my biggest requests for Super Smash Bros and I COULD see it happening after the ballot, but he is not "one of the most deserving characters" at this point nor is he likely.

 

[majorasmaskfan]

Yup we should use none of ganondorf's feats except punching, honestly dbfighterz should patch out all of Goku's energy moves, I mean he punches a lot. And a bunch of other people that aren't him do the same thing.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yup we should use none of ganondorf's feats except punching, honestly dbfighterz should patch out all of Goku's energy moves, I mean he punches a lot. And a bunch of other people that aren't him do the same thing.

Just like when he punched out Toon Link in Wind Waker. And backhanded him. And choked him. Etc.

He's fought physically in canon before. And physically attacked Toon Link more than once. He's used Dead Man's Volley literally once. And not even in his TP form. The issue is that it's not really as related to him as people want to treat it. It would've made some remote sense for his OOT design to use it, but he's a completely different design and is even more power-based come Brawl. He's a heavy character. The projectile actually doesn't fit his style at all.

If he's going to use a projectile, he'd be using a power attack more akin to how the Charge Shot is when charged up. That'd make a lot more sense and fit his persona wayyyyyy better.

 

[majorasmaskfan]

I should also point out Ganon and Agahnim are the same person.

 

[SvartWolf]

Regarding pokereps, i really would prefer a gen 7 pokemon. (eevee is cool, but could work better as dlc due to timing... plus, is true that evee more popular and defining traits are the evolutions.. which wouldnt be easy to implement)

as for alolans. i think that the three big ones are good choices (Lycanrock, Mimikyu and Decidueye) I like them 3, 2 of them are ghost types and the other a wolf.

plus the 3 could be potentially pretty original and interesting (wolf quadruped with mineral type attacks, ghost plant archer, and shadowy cute but creepy blob , plus mimikyu is a great and unique pokemon in pokemon games too)

Also teh three are quite popular, and while decidueye have teh adventage of being grass starter trio completionist, the other 2 are ALSO big on teh anime, and HEAVY Marketed.

Personal choice would be lycanrock, but i would be happy with any of them really.

 

[majorasmaskfan]

Regarding pokereps, i really would prefer a gen 7 pokemon. (eevee is cool, but could work better as dlc due to timing... plus, is true that evee more popular and defining traits are the evolutions.. which wouldnt be easy to implement)

as for alolans. i think that the three big ones are good choices (Lycanrock, Mimikyu and Decidueye) I like them 3, 2 of them are ghost types and the other a wolf.

plus the 3 could be potentially pretty original and interesting (wolf quadruped with mineral type attacks, ghost plant archer, and shadowy cute but creepy blob , plus mimikyu is a great and unique pokemon in pokemon games too)

Also teh three are quite popular, and while decidueye have teh adventage of being grass starter trio completionist, the other 2 are ALSO big on teh anime, and HEAVY Marketed.

Personal choice would be lycanrock, but i would be happy with any of them really.

Sucks gen 2 (pichu doesn't count),3 and 5will never get a character
3 probably would have had blaziken. 2 doesn't have an obvious pick though personally I would want feraligatr. Before greninja people thought that not lucario from gen 5 might make it in.

 

[Deleted member]

>New Smash is out within 6 months
>expecting minimal reveals

Bruh, we’re getting a complete info dump of Smash Bros. Switch. You have to hype this up, and you’re gonna show 2 new characters at the biggest event of the year? No way. There’s honestly no way I can see this happening.

With Wii U, it made sense. There was a huge amount of time before that game released, so having 3 at the beginning made sense.

SIX. MONTHS. PEOPLE. SIX.

I expect a Melee reveal type of trailer. We’ll get a small handful. If Smash is the main focus, I have a feeling we’re getting quite a bit and the release month. I have a feeling it’ll be October which then would be FIVE. MONTHS. PEOPLE. FIVE.

...

I still think there’s a chance of no cuts.

Remember when we knew barely a thing about Breath of the Wild? Like, we only got that trailer on 2014 and some other stuff (the Game Awards footage, that one teaser that showed a release year window that dind't ended up happening)

Hell we didn't even knew the ****ing title (we called it Zelda U to Zelda NX or something among those lines), we didn't knew what it was about or what changes it would have.

and then E3 2016 happened, and it seems it will happen again with Smash.

Which is fitting since BotW Link was teased on the teaser so......

 

[monadoboy]

Uh, no. Every version of Link is a composite character design who uses the most iconic of moves. Young Link can't do the Downthrust or Upthrust either. It's clearly not just a pure representation of one game or another.


Other than being his most defining trait and literally the most important part of the character called Ganon(who is the same person as Ganondorf), being the wielder of Triforce of Power, you mean?


Ganondorf did not use a Sword or Trident in OOT, the first game. If that's the only one to go off of? No, he would have no weapon. It'd be irrelevant. He also has never used a Trident in any canon game. That's explicitly Moblin Ganon's weapon. HW is irrelevant in that. Hell, Moblin Ganon used Swords first. This isn't even counting the fact that Ganondorf is still using magic here. It's just physical magic. Something that is an actual thing. The lack of a projectile is jarring, agreed, but by the time it could've been implemented in Brawl, tons of Zelda characters already used it, even ones not remotely related to Ganon or Ganondorf in someway. It became just a really interesting move to use, not a signature move for Ganondorf. Ganondorf actually lacks any real signature moves.

Funky and Dark Samus aren't in the same boat. Funky does not share any remote potential animations and has a very different body frame and style. Ganondorf does not look awkward with Falcon's animations in comparison. It still fits his actual character really well. Dark Samus could be that, but we've seen the character in Smash already using different moves. Ganondorf also has shown the compete capability to do the things he does in Smash. None of it comes off as weird for him to channel his triforce and magic into more physical attacks. Again, there is no questioning his trait is POWER. It's who he is. If he isn't showing that off, it's really inaccurate to him. He's a power character through and through in the Zelda series. Unofficial games aside.


So then he wouldn't be in the game at all otherwise. Still fits him as he doesn't actually have different abilities than Pit whatsoever. And he still separates himself in Smash by using different weapons(bar the Orbitars). So he's acting extremely accurate. The issue is that he's not interesting to play as because you can't formulate a new strategy with him, unlike the other clones. It has nothing to do with the fact he's actually severely accurate to Uprising.

The Triforce of Power, the source of his power, mostly manifested through magic. Punches and weird purple flames are a tiny sample of what the Triforce of Power can do.
A slow old man that can barely run and throws some lucky punches isn't my idea of a man possessing god-tier power. Ganondorf's moveset doesn't fit him well, people are just used to it already. He's supposed to be intimidating and Smash Ganondorf really isn't. Just give him a floating move, a ball of energy, some good sword attacks and better movement speed and then, maybe, his moveset would be fitting. I mean, he does need a buff. Flame Choke is good, but down B , up B and neutral B are ridiculous.

I'm not sold on Link being a composite. Which other attacks does he have that are explicitly from another Link? Most of his moves look generic enough to fit OoT/TP Link.

By all means, keep thinking that about Funky or whatever, I'm not the one that'll be disappointed if it happens. If it doesn't, great! But there's really no reason to convince ourselves that it can't happen.

 

[Pacack]

While extremely late to the Rex vs. Elma discussion, I did want to say one thing.

The roster is finalized for Smash games pretty quickly after development starts. Given the time period Sakurai likely was pulling from, Elma has the timing all on her side.

For Rex to get in we have to assume that Sakurai either rejected Elma as a character choice, decided to include the protagonist from XC2, or wanted both.

Next, we have to assume that, after deciding he wants to include XC2's protagonist, he approaches Monolith Soft and decides he likes the design and can implement the blade mechanic to his satisfaction.

Once we assume that, we also have to assume that Sakurai is willing to include a character who has yet to be revealed to the public.

Then, we have to conclude that Sakurai has considered the risk of including this character despite the possibilities of: a lackluster reception to Rex as a protagonist (design, personality, abilities); poor game sales/reception; or even of the Switch not selling well at launch. (Mind, not even developer insight can predict the success of a game/console.)

While all of this is possible, it is not something we have precedence for. When Greninja was chosen, it was because the Pokemon company gave him concept art to include a Pokemon from XY. In that instance, the games were already essentially guaranteed successes by virtue of being Pokemon games, and the anime was already planning on pushing Greninja as a popular character.

With all of this in mind, why are we assuming that Rex is a more likely choice than Elma, who was (basically) the protagonist of the most recently released Xenoblade game at the time the roster was being decided? As DLC, Rex makes perfect sense, but why is there any reason to suspect him for the base game?

 

[Hammer B]

We already had a baby character in Smash though everyone.

Spoiler

Pichu

I would suggest for Baby Mario to be Mario's little clone who damage himself when attacking

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I should also point out Ganon and Agahnim are the same person.

I should also point out that in the timeline, Ghirahim used it first. It's just a magical ability taught to others. They're even more logically the case that Twinrova, who outright trained Ganondorf, taught him the move. It's just a magic move anyone can learn within the series proper.

If it wasn't, there's no way others unrelated to one of Ganon(dorf)'s forms could use it, or someone Ganondorf created. The Cubus sisters were not created by Ganon whatsoever yet somehow used it(and even name dropped the move no less).

"If you want to save Tetra, you'll have to play a match of dead man's volley first! So... Are you a big enough boy to return these volleys?" — Cubus Sisters (Phantom Hourglass)"

The Triforce of Power, the source of his power, mostly manifested through magic. Punches and weird purple flames are a tiny sample of what the Triforce of Power can do.
A slow old man that can barely run and throws some lucky punches isn't my idea of a man possessing god-tier power. Ganondorf's moveset doesn't fit him well, people are just used to it already. He's supposed to be intimidating and Smash Ganondorf really isn't. Just give him a floating move, a ball of energy, some good sword attacks and better movement speed and then, maybe, his moveset would be fitting. I mean, he does need a buff. Flame Choke is good, but down B , up B and neutral B are ridiculous.

Ganondorf is literally the most powerful character in Smash. Nobody has more physical power than him. It's not a tiny fraction shown. It's clearly designed to make him the de facto strongest. It's also not remotely a poor representation since he has a murderous vibe while maintaining his physical and magical power, channeling it into immense strength. Even his Final Smash does exactly what it's meant to, using his Triforce to summon forth his most physically capable form, Ganon. And then knock them into the stratosphere. The only version of regular Ganon to actually be about magic is the original Moblin design in ALTTP(and remaking of that particular battle). OOT's is nothing more than a heavy hitter. Puppet Ganon is too. And Beast Ganon(TP). Take a guess which version of Ganondorf is in Smash? The most physically powerful. In fact, he almost uses no magic in TP, being physical as all hell. Same with WW. OOT is his only real magical design. He grew stronger over the years and kept it that way.

I'm not sold on Link being a composite. Which other attacks does he have that are explicitly from another Link? Most of his moves look generic enough to fit OoT/TP Link.

Downthrust and Upthrust. Only Zelda II version of Link could ever use it at that time. Second one to use it was Minish Cap's Link, who more or less is a Toon Link-like design.

By all means, keep thinking that about Funky or whatever, I'm not the one that'll be disappointed if it happens. If it doesn't, great! But there's really no reason to convince ourselves that it can't happen.

Because he doesn't actually move like DK at all? He has an actual different body frame and movement. It doesn't look natural to him.

Ganondorf also got updated in Brawl to move more accurately to his current self, despite being a clone. But even in Melee, it didn't come off as awkward due to his body frame being almost 100% the same.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

idk why people think we'll get only 1 pokemon rep

smash games tend introduce random number of new pokemon characters

Never say never

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

idk why people think we'll get only 1 pokemon rep

smash games tend introduce random number of new pokemon characters

Never say never

Actually, Smash 4 only introduced one. It's wildly inconsistent. Let's remember, we got, in order of added characters, 2, 2, 4, 1. We've had 9 playable Pokemon before(and to be clear, Pokemon Trainer was treated as 3 characters by Sakurai. He even cleared it up he views Brawl as having 39 playable characters. The slots are different). Think of it this way; if we got two new Pokemon in Smash 4, it would mean every game added 2 new unique "slots". But that's not what happened, so...

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Actually, Smash 4 only introduced one. It's wildly inconsistent. Let's remember, we got, in order of added characters, 2, 2, 4, 1. We've had 9 playable Pokemon before(and to be clear, Pokemon Trainer was treated as 3 characters by Sakurai. He even cleared it up he views Brawl as having 39 playable characters. The slots are different). Think of it this way; if we got two new Pokemon in Smash 4, it would mean every game added 2 new unique "slots". But that's not what happened, so...

like I said

Never say never

 

[Senselessbreak]

While extremely late to the Rex vs. Elma discussion, I did want to say one thing.

The roster is finalized for Smash games pretty quickly after development starts. Given the time period Sakurai likely was pulling from, Elma has the timing all on her side.

For Rex to get in we have to assume that Sakurai either rejected Elma as a character choice, decided to include the protagonist from XC2, or wanted both.

Next, we have to assume that, after deciding he wants to include XC2's protagonist, he approaches Monolith Soft and decides he likes the design and can implement the blade mechanic to his satisfaction.

Once we assume that, we also have to assume that Sakurai is willing to include a character who has yet to be revealed to the public.

Then, we have to conclude that Sakurai has considered the risk of including this character despite the possibilities of: a lackluster reception to Rex as a protagonist (design, personality, abilities); poor game sales/reception; or even of the Switch not selling well at launch. (Mind, not even developer insight can predict the success of a game/console.)

While all of this is possible, it is not something we have precedence for. When Greninja was chosen, it was because the Pokemon company gave him concept art to include a Pokemon from XY. In that instance, the games were already essentially guaranteed successes by virtue of being Pokemon games, and the anime was already planning on pushing Greninja as a popular character.

With all of this in mind, why are we assuming that Rex is a more likely choice than Elma, who was (basically) the protagonist of the most recently released Xenoblade game at the time the roster was being decided? As DLC, Rex makes perfect sense, but why is there any reason to suspect him for the base game?

Sakurai said he always asks companies for their latest and greatest when picking newcomers. We see this constantly with FE and Pokemon. Based on its design XBC is in a similar boat.

 

[PSIguy89]

As someone who actually prefers Dragon Quest to Final Fantasy, I would love nothing more than to see a Dragon Quest rep. Getting into Smash would help give the series the exposure it deserves in the west, plus its time to see Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy crossover (without property buying elements)

The 3 Dragon Quest reps that realistically stand a chance are:
Erdrick (Loto in Japan): The hero of Dragon Quest III and a major character in the lore of Dragon Quest I and II. He's considered the face of NES Dragon Quest, and would thusly make sense in a Nintendo game. Dragon Quest III is also when the series really came into its own and solidified a lot of gameplay elements that would make the series iconic. Additionally, Dragon Quest III is tied with VII for the best selling game in the series and is the most well-loved in Japan, coming in at 3rd on Famitsu's top 100 games list.

Eight: The hero of Dragon Quest VIII and my preferred choice for a DQ rep. Dragon Quest VIII is the best selling DQ game in the west and its tied with III for the second best selling game in the series. It is also critically acclaimed, being 4th on Famitsu's top 100 games list. Additionally, Dragon Quest VIII's 3DS remake was DQ's most recent mainline release between Smash 4's release and the project plan Without showing my bias too much, he also has the most moveset potential of the realistic candidates: Using swords, spears, boomerangs, spells, and fisticuffs.

Slime: The face of Dragon Quest and the series' popular character. Name a product and there's a good chance its been released with a slime design. Slimes appear in every Dragon Quest game, often as the first enemy the player fights with many variants appearing throughout the game. Slime's biggest hurdle is a lack of moveset potential, as he's effectively the Goomba of Dragon Quest. If he were to get in, his moveset would mostly be based around summoning other Dragon Quest monsters or things he does in Rocket Slime (a popular spinoff).

My man, I couldn’t agree more with you if I tried. I’m currently playing through VIII on the 3DS and I’m thoroughly enjoying it! Eight or Erdrick would easily be two of the best candidates, I’d also throw in the original hero, as he seems to be pretty damn iconic in his own right! Plus how cool would it be to have the FIRST EVER jrpg protagonist in smash?!

 

[ErenJager]

I’ve made a newcomer prediction analysis based off the “leaks”, “rumours” and “hints” from semi-reliable sources/ individuals in the industry and also based off the first trailer. (Basically all/ any possible information we have so far) Not saying these are going to happen, but it's just looking at the possibilities and my opinionated likelihood.

Row One: The soft reveals of Inkling and BotW Link. Inklings sporting their Wii U appearance, and BotW was also on the Wii U. This could suggest that Wii U titles will be a bigger focus then the Switch titles, given the development time line.

Row Two: Ridley, Ice Climbers, Simon Belmont. These characters have been stated to be included in the latest GameFAQ’s leak. Ridley has been hinted at by others with “insider” connections. The Ice Climbers had some unused assets in Smash 4 and were cut due to the 3DS’s limitations. Simon Belmont is interesting, suggesting Konami is back in the fold.

Row Three: Alph, according to Sakurai would have been his own character with Rock Pikmin, but wasn’t due to time constraints. Perhaps this time around for Smash 5, Sakurai will include him as a standalone character. This would coincide with the rumours of being “the most complete Smash Bros ever”.

Row Four: This row is the cut Smash 4 veterans who are far more glaring then others. I feel if the Belmont rumour is true it drastically increases the odds of Snake’s return, because as we know they’re both Konami properties. Wolf’s inclusion in Smash 5 exists because of the “most complete smash bros ever” rumour. His popularity and modest backlash from Smash 4 increase his odds to return.

Row Five: The cut Pokemon. It appears as though Kanto may be gaining traction again as the new Pokemon Switch game may be a Kanto story. This could shine light back on Squirtle and Ivysaur. As far as Pichu is concerned, well he’s a vet and the whole “most complete Smash Bros ever” applies to the trio.

Row Six: This is far more highly speculative, but if the Wii U games is going to be the greater focus for characters (Inkling’s design and BotW Link). I imagine the more successful games such as Koei Tecmo’s Hyrule Warriors may be looked at. With that being said, Koei Tecmo is the last major Japanese video game company not involved with Smash. KT had a lot of support for the Wii U including Fatal Frame exclusivity. I’m not sure but Sakurai may favour some of the Warriors designs for less common LoZ characters. If Young Link is brought back, which could happen for a few reasons, one being completeness another being because Link is overhauled into BotW Link and Sakurai wants the old move set to remain by handing it down to Young Link. Ryu Hayabusa is a character with a long history on Nintendo consoles and is basically KT’s poster boy. Very speculative but if you consider the popularity of Hyrule Warriors, the dev time, KT’s relationship with Nintendo, Ryu Hayabusa’s history… it in my opinion creates a picture of possibility, not guaranteed but the possibility is surely there for KT inclusion.

Row Seven: Is basically dedicated to characters recognized for their popularity by Sakurai by including them in Smash 4 in some way, shape or form. I think their fan demand, AT’s, Mii costumes, and the ballot effect the odds of these characters more-so than others. The fact Sakurai has acknowledged them appears to bold well for their possible future inclusion.

 

[SvartWolf]

While i actually enjoy playing with ganondorf, I cant stand some of the animations and warlock punch.

Animation wise, make him float while running, and remove and change all "acrobatics" and "Yoga kicks" remnants from captain falcon and im golden, dont care for a sword, dont care if he still magically punching .

And we all agree that dorf could use a buff, i actually would love a new tool instead of just adjusting numbers, and noone is gonna miss warlock punch (if you want to disrespect people, just charge smash attack or something) and give him a useful and original move as neutral b.

Add a reflect to his jab so we can still play tennis and make people think twice before throwing projectiles at dorf, and im happy.

For a more elaborate idea, refer to my post at ganondorf thread :3

 

[ErenJager]

I wouldn't mind if Eevee was included and they broke canon a bit and just gave it fire/ water/ electric attacks to represent it's evolutions.

Baby Mario, I wouldn't mind if it was a mech character, maybe riding a Mario Kart, with the Bowser Jr palette swap treatment for various different babies.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

im reminded of that fake smash 4 leak from years ago where they said the Stork from Yoshi Island was playable

that would be interesting lol

 

[MopedOfJustice]

While extremely late to the Rex vs. Elma discussion, I did want to say one thing.

The roster is finalized for Smash games pretty quickly after development starts. Given the time period Sakurai likely was pulling from, Elma has the timing all on her side.

For Rex to get in we have to assume that Sakurai either rejected Elma as a character choice, decided to include the protagonist from XC2, or wanted both.

Next, we have to assume that, after deciding he wants to include XC2's protagonist, he approaches Monolith Soft and decides he likes the design and can implement the blade mechanic to his satisfaction.

Once we assume that, we also have to assume that Sakurai is willing to include a character who has yet to be revealed to the public.

Then, we have to conclude that Sakurai has considered the risk of including this character despite the possibilities of: a lackluster reception to Rex as a protagonist (design, personality, abilities); poor game sales/reception; or even of the Switch not selling well at launch. (Mind, not even developer insight can predict the success of a game/console.)

While all of this is possible, it is not something we have precedence for. When Greninja was chosen, it was because the Pokemon company gave him concept art to include a Pokemon from XY. In that instance, the games were already essentially guaranteed successes by virtue of being Pokemon games, and the anime was already planning on pushing Greninja as a popular character.

With all of this in mind, why are we assuming that Rex is a more likely choice than Elma, who was (basically) the protagonist of the most recently released Xenoblade game at the time the roster was being decided? As DLC, Rex makes perfect sense, but why is there any reason to suspect him for the base game?

They already did this with Roy in Melee...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

like I said

Never say never

That wasn't my point. More that there's no patterns and we don't know what to expect. At best, we're expecting at least 1 newcomer. I honestly think we'll get 2 myself. We have a lot more games to note and DLC to take into account.