Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Nekoo]

Is there a ****ing loss edit in this thread?
I thought I was finally safe from this, but even here it's following me.

Thanks. I now officially hate you sir.

 

[Superyoshiom]

Wait is there a new leak?

 

[Icedragonadam]

Wait is there a new leak?

The Simon Leak.

-No Cuts
-Ice Climbers Return
-Simon Belmont
-Ridley

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-for-nintendo-switch/76614511

 

[Senselessbreak]

I actually will bet money on Elma. She's the only one I'm 90% sure will be in... And I want 0%.

I'd bet the exact opposite.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

All these Xenoblade debates about who is more likely would end up pretty ironic if we got no new Xenoblade characters. Which come to think of it is not that much of a stretch in terms of possibilities.

 

[MBRedboy31]

All these Xenoblade debates about who is more likely would end up pretty ironic if we got no new Xenoblade characters. Which come to think of it is not that much of a stretch in terms of possibilities.

Or, imagine people’s reactions if we got a second Xenoblade 1 rep rather than someone from either X or 2...

 

[Antimatter042]

It might be too early, but I will take an extreme risk and bank on the leak being real before insiders get into it and make the leak more credible. So here is a new prediction roster:

Still, I am going to admit that I was wrong about Ridley and Simon. So I will not get bragging points from that regardless if the leak ends up being real.

If the leak ends up being wrong, ah well. It will cost me somewhat. It is fun to bet anyway.

I promise analyses for newcomer additions like Ridley, Mii Mage, and Simon will come soon. When all those analyses are done, then my prediction roster will be completed and the full roster post will come.

As someone who strongly doubts the "leak" of Simon Belmont and Ridley, there's a lot of choices here I like in a vacuum, but adding this whole roster together it doesn't sit well with me.

Firstly, it's way, way too large. 79 Characters, for a base roster, is ludicrous especially given no cuts. I'm of the opinion that the base roster will be 67-72 characters, and 72 is seriously stretching it if you ask me. Speaking of large, what is that bottom row? 4 new 3rd Parties plus the return of Snake all seems like far too much to seriously expect out of this game, I'll get to the individual choices later but I don't think any of them are terribly likely, either. On the general positives, good to see transformations aren't there like the previous versions of your rosters, and while it doesn't have a bearing on content the organisation is so much better this time. This one is much easier to actually look at.

Spoiler: Specific Comments

Dixie Kong is fair enough. I think K. Rool has a decent chance via Ballot, judging by the Mii Costume, but it could go either way.

I was convinced on Hanafuda representation a while ago, referencing Nintendo's origins seems like a logical step for a retro rep. None of the other choices in the same vein as G&W, ROB and Duck Hunt really strike me as feasible.

I don't believe the leak but I do believe Ridley has a chance in this game. He may still be "too big" but I think there's a strong chance that fan demand is pulling at Sakurai's leg too much to ignore at this point. So I respect that choice on its own merits, just not because a leak said so.

Other snubs I can understand, but no Bandana Waddle Dee? The guy's a major character nowadays, and even though he's only relevant in post-Sakurai Kirby, his Japanese and global popularity plus his relevance in every modern Kirby game are both pretty big boons to his chances. Sakurai may be more comfortable with his own work, but he doesn't hate HAL and the man is not obtuse to what an enormous number of Kirby fans want to see.

Both Ice Climbers and Wolf are reasonable, no issues there. Takamaru is also shooting straight as far as newcomers go.

I see Lycanroc as a pretty likely newcomer choice, but why Midday? I don't know if that's a placeholder for Lycanroc as a whole, but Midnight and especially Dusk are far more likely forms to be represented. Midday ends up squeezed from both ends as it's less relevant than Dusk, less easily realisable than Midnight and likely the least popular of all 3.

2 new Animal Crossing characters seems pretty excessive, however I applaud the inclusion of 2 new Xenoblade characters. I'm aware there's enough in Animal Crossing that Villager only scratches the surface, and that Isabelle has her own brand of accidental fighting to offer, but I worry that a similar gimmick 3 times would be tiresome, even if they aren't clones the theming is too homogenous. Twice it can still be fresh and I wouldn't be opposed to Isabelle on that basis, but more of that wouldn't be exciting any more. Xenoblade can offer radically different fighter concepts with each of those 3 characters, which is why I think that stands out as reasonable when it's not so for the larger Animal Crossing.

I can absolutely see Octoling slipping in last minute as a clone with some weapon variations. The single most likely last minute clone among all possible newcomers, if you ask me.

Chorus Kids I can't comment on. Kawashima is a real person so I can't see him being playable in Smash at all. An Assist Trophy is one thing but playable status requires using the good Doctor's image in a wildly different manner.

Belmont and Snake are Konami and I personally think that completely torpedoes their chances into oblivion. The wound of them firing Kojima was likely still pretty raw during Smash planning and I can't imagine Sakurai wanting to cooperate with them then, plus their major shake up on business strategy around that time alienates them further. Sora has similar problems because Disney would have too much power in negotiations, but he is a lot more likely.

Layton is honestly too niche, and doesn't have the demand Bayo did to compensate, he has also concluded his adventures as a character, which puts him on even thinner ice. Heihachi's capacity to be unique is questionable to me, and I think if Namco gets a second character it'll be Lloyd by popularity or KOS-MOS as part of the negotiations made to get her into Xenoblade 2.

Lastly, Mii Mage. I've made my thoughts on Miis known before: down with the sinking ship that is customs, and while I could see a small possibilty of the 3 we have now coming back solely to spin money for Mii Costume DLC, adding another one is honestly a terrible idea. Taking a cynical point of view, the 3 we have now cover most DLC costume ideas you could get, and from a gameplay standpoint a trifecta of CQC, Spacing, Zoner covers all bases. Mii Mage only expands on an unpopular fighter idea, doesn't contribute to the game and just serves to waste development time.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Or, imagine people’s reactions if we got a second Xenoblade 1 rep rather than someone from either X or 2...

Imagine Shulk gets cut.

Concerning the leak, if it's real, pretty cool, that means no character will be lost this time.
Ridley finally gets in.
IC are back.
Simon is one of the third-party newcomers
And we have the Inklings to consider too.
With the new Pokémon game coming, and if this leak is also real, Eevee has a chance. Slight one, but it exists.
Give me Rayman, Waluigi, Funky Kong and Mimikyu with this list and I'm an happy man.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

All these Xenoblade debates about who is more likely would end up pretty ironic if we got no new Xenoblade characters. Which come to think of it is not that much of a stretch in terms of possibilities.

With two major Xenoblade titles having released I would be very shocked. However if the focus is on the "Ultimate Smash Roster" and based more off the ballot than just what's relevant this could be the case.

I kinda wanna make a prediction with that being the basis of the roster.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Or, imagine people’s reactions if we got a second Xenoblade 1 rep rather than someone from either X or 2...

As long as it's Fiora I wouldn't be mad in the slightest

 

[Senselessbreak]

All these Xenoblade debates about who is more likely would end up pretty ironic if we got no new Xenoblade characters. Which come to think of it is not that much of a stretch in terms of possibilities.

I feel out of all the current series, Xenoblade is one of the most likely to get a newcomer. But it won't be a lifeless side character from an old side entry when theres already a better main entry title with a proper protagonist with plenty of mechanics that will blend well into Smash. The stupid rule that its too new doesn't exist and nor does it apply to XBC2's case as it was revealed very shortly after Sakurai started planning the roster.

 

[Fenriraga]

All these Xenoblade debates about who is more likely would end up pretty ironic if we got no new Xenoblade characters. Which come to think of it is not that much of a stretch in terms of possibilities.

Perhaps not, but the series has recieved quite a bit of success since 4 first launched. It's likely, but not guaranteed I suppose.

As for the debate on who, it really depends on if Rex & Pyra were far enough along during Smash's development for them to be considered. I think them and Elma have pretty even chances.

...But you know, what about the chance of getting another character from Xenoblade 1? Unlikely, but who do you think it would be in that case? I'd place my bets on Fiora, Riki or Melia.

 

[Bowserlick]

~•~ Simon Belmont Special Moveset and Mechanic ~•~​

Mechanic: Hearts

Belmont gains Hearts by connecting with the tip of his whip. He can have five.

• When inputting his Side B (weapon throw), he can regular input, medium input or Smash input (like Ryu's tilts). Regular input uses no hearts and throws one weapon. Medium uses two hearts and throws two weapons. Smash uses three hearts and throws three weapons.

B Whip: Holding B unfurls Simon's whip. He can then whip in 8 directions. Only really effective at the tip.

Down B Item Swap: Cycles through Boomerang Cross, Holy Water and Axe

Side B Item Toss: Throws out either Boomerang Cross (goes straight a distance before returning on the same trajectory), Holy Water (arcs slightly before plummeting to the ground and releasing a short wave of fire that hugs the ground) and Axe (high arc that can take out aerial foes)

Up B Doorknocker Swing: A doorknocker appears and Simon latches onto it with his whip. He can maneuver up and down or swing back and forth and leap off. He can attack afterwards, but not use his Up B again until hit.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

But it won't be a lifeless side character

Could say the same about the bland anime girl that is pyra

from an old side entry

2015 is hardly old and not being numbered doesn't make it a side entry

when theres already a better main entry title

Better is subjective, I loved X and only mildly enjoyed 2

with a proper protagonist

Proper protagonist, when has that mattered? didn't we get robin over chrom? the real main character of awakening lol. Besides she's the narratives main character anyway.

with plenty of mechanics that will blend well into Smash. The stupid rule that its too new doesn't exist and nor does it apply to XBC2's case as it was revealed very shortly after Sakurai started planning the roster.

If by "shortly after" you mean half a year. Greninja has been the only exception to the rule when it comes to unique characters, you aren't sakurai, I wouldn't blame him for not wanting to create movesets for games that aren't out yet and he can't play. And Elma would still be more interesting and unique as a fighter and that's the tea.

Perhaps not, but the series has recieved quite a bit of success since 4 first launched. It's likely, but not guaranteed I suppose.

As for the debate on who, it really depends on if Rex & Pyra were far enough along during Smash's development for them to be considered. I think them and Elma have pretty even chances.

...But you know, what about the chance of getting another character from Xenoblade 1? Unlikely, but who do you think it would be in that case? I'd place my bets on Fiora, Riki or Melia.

Fiora's the obvious choice because she's pretty much the alternative to shulk in the games narrative, she's the second most important. Also project cross zone and stuff.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Best way to satisfy everyon is to make Elma Pyra's driver.

 

[Staarih]

Some info regarding Dillon in Smash Bros.

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/...with-kensuke-tanabe-risa-tabata-and-jun-tsuda

NWR: What other Nintendo series would you think Dillon would fit best into?

KT: Wishful speaking, but we would love it if we could see Dillon in Smash Bros.

NWR: I think a lot of us would agree with that. He did have an Assist Trophy in the last one.

JT: I also think that Smash Bros would be the best fit.

RT: I want to put together all the round characters in a game.

KT: We would welcome Sonic as well.

Yess, make it happen.

They also think a crossover with Star Fox would be great. Make it happen as well!

 

[Chandeelure]

I'm still waiting for a decent leak with Bandana Dee in it.

My uncle works at Nintendo. pic.twitter.com/EH0DqfKE7B

— 🍎 Bandana Dee Brigade 🍎 (@BandanaDeeSSBU) June 10, 2017

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Could say the same about the bland anime girl that is pyra

2015 is hardly old and not being numbered doesn't make it a side entry

Better is subjective, I loved X and only mildly enjoyed 2

Proper protagonist, when has that mattered? didn't we get robin over chrom? the real main character of awakening lol. Besides she's the narratives main character anyway.

If by "shortly after" you mean half a year. Greninja has been the only exception to the rule when it comes to unique characters, you aren't sakurai, I wouldn't blame him for not wanting to create movesets for games that aren't out yet and he can't play. And Elma would still be more interesting and unique as a fighter and that's the tea.



Fiora's the obvious choice because she's pretty much the alternative to shulk in the games narrative, she's the second most important. Also project cross zone and stuff.

I've already argued and made my points with you on Elma vs. Rex&Pyra (and to remind you it was mostly because my ARMS bias) but I live for your defense of her over Pyra. Calling her a bland anime character, really made me imagine an Elma vs. Pyra catfight XD

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Elma is a literal expressionless sidekick to a mute in a titles thats not even a main entry to the series.

Pyra is literally designed by a hentai artist, made to be the cheesecake sidekick to a soul-crushingly generic-looking anime protagonist who is collecting an arsenal-harem of weapon-waifus.
I personally don't like either of them, but Elma is much more compelling.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I've already argued and made my points with you on Elma vs. Rex&Pyra (and to remind you it was mostly because my ARMS bias) but I live for your defense of her over Pyra. Calling her a bland anime character, really made me imagine an Elma vs. Pyra catfight XD

Call a spade a spade sis, if elma is lifeless for being a subdued character then Pyra's a bland anime girl for the bland anime boy to fall in love with lol. Mythra can't relate to that tho

 

[Icedragonadam]

Oh boy waifu wars!

On other news, if the the entire 4 roster is back, I guess that means very few newcomers this time around excluding DLC. If the leak is true.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

I tried doing the same as BluePikmin and make a prediction roster based on the recent leaks. It didn't end too well.
If I was objective, Funky Kong, Thunderblight Ganon and Diskun should go, and replace Excitebiker by Takamaru.
And remove Snake.
And Waluigi.
And Alph.
And the Dee (sorry Chandeelure).

If we only have two third-party newcomers, and one of them is Simon (if the leak is true), who do you think will be the second one?

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Oh boy waifu wars!

On other news, if the the entire 4 roster is back, I guess that means very few newcomers this time around excluding DLC. If the leak is true.

that's not necessarily true, it's very plausible they were easier to bring over since smash 4 is so new, and this game has still been in development for 2 years, I expect at least as many newcomers as smash 4 which had 15

 

[Fenriraga]

I really wonder how many people making arguments in both Elma and Pyra's favor have actually played both of their games to completion. Because the arguments against both of them that I'm seeing are literally things that are addressed by end-game. That doesn't make either of them better, per se, but it does make both parties arguments a bit more shallow to me.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Actually, there's an angle to this that hasn't been considered (at least lately):
If the Miis are coming back like the leak says, is it possible they're going to be kept as-is despite being such a train wreck? There are a lot of really interesting things that could be done with them, but I don't think that that's what's going to happen.

I really wonder how many people making arguments in both Elma and Pyra's favor have actually played both of their games to completion. Because the arguments against both of them that I'm seeing are literally things that are addressed by end-game. That doesn't make either of them better, per se, but it does make both parties arguments a bit more shallow to me.

I haven't played either game, I just think Pyra is trashy. Tell me, is that explained by the end-game?

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I really wonder how many people making arguments in both Elma and Pyra's favor have actually played both of their games to completion. Because the arguments against both of them that I'm seeing are literally things that are addressed by end-game. That doesn't make either of them better, per se, but it makes me wonder.

I've played both (idk about the other person but whatever) and I'm not sure what you mean by arguments being addressed by end-game tbh

 

[Deleted member]

The Simon Leak.

-No Cuts
-Ice Climbers Return
-Simon Belmont
-Ridley

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-for-nintendo-switch/76614511

Considering it’s GameFAQS, I don’t have high hopes.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

As far as 3rd parties go, they are the hardest newcomers to predict, but in terms of likeliness, I don’t believe Bomberman and Simon have nearly the chance of getting in as some people believe they do.

I think the hype and support around certain potential characters can get into our heads sometimes. It’s something we’ve all been guilty of I’m sure. However, I think the most likely next picks for 3rd Party newcomers would be a Monster Hunter, the Hero from Dragon Quest, Heihachi from Tekken (he was considered for Smash 4.), or honestly, Sora from Kingdom Hearts. I’m not saying Bomberman or Simon have no chance at all, but I think the aforementioned selections would create more of a booming hype both inside, and outside of just the Smash, and even Nintendo fan base.

Is this a troll post? Because this is such an inversion of reality that it's just absurd beyond belief. You're just simply objectively wrong. Like you are literally saying that Sora from Kingdom Hearts is more likely than a Bomberman or Castlevania character, let alone likely AT ALL. You are talking about a character hardly anybody recognizes (MH), a second fighting game character (Heihachi), a Dragon Quest character I've never heard anyone request, and a Disney character. These are the characters you think are more likely than Bomberman and Simon Belmont who are infinitely more iconic and popular than all of these characters combined and have been requested since Super Smash Bros Brawl, probably even earlier.

SURELY you jest.

 

[RouffWestie]

There's very few good reasons for anyone to be removed.
Ice climbers returning makes sense. Simon and Ridley absolutely have the merits to be in.
This leak is really believable.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Simon honestly seems like an oddball choice to me, he's not really relevant, nor does he have the fandom popularity that characters like mega man had. He's certainly an iconic character but idk.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I tried doing the same as BluePikmin and make a prediction roster based on the recent leaks. It didn't end too well.
If I was objective, Funky Kong, Thunderblight Ganon and Diskun should go, and replace Excitebiker by Takamaru.
And remove Snake.
And Waluigi.
And Alph.
And the Dee (sorry Chandeelure).

If we only have two third-party newcomers, and one of them is Simon (if the leak is true), who do you think will be the second one?

How would Blight Ganon even work? Not judging, more curious because I've never seen anyone suggest them.

Also I agree with the Rayman. Makes too much sense.

 

[Nekoo]

Is this a troll post? Because this is such an inversion of reality that it's just absurd beyond belief. You're just simply objectively wrong. Like you are literally saying that Sora from Kingdom Hearts is more likely than a Bomberman or Castlevania character, let alone likely AT ALL. You are talking about a character hardly anybody recognizes (MH), a second fighting game character (Heihachi), a Dragon Quest character I've never heard anyone request, and a Disney character. These are the characters you think are more likely than Bomberman and Simon Belmont who are infinitely more iconic and popular than all of these characters combined and have been requested since Super Smash Bros Brawl, probably even earlier.

SURELY you jest.

The fact that you never saw people talk about a DQ character, and say that NO ONE recognize MH or reducing Sora to "A disney character" and complain about a second fighting game character show your bias dude. Be careful, and I say that as someone who would be super happy if Bomberman or Simon made it in (Even if I would rather get Alucard tbh)

 

[Bowserlick]

Bomberman and Simon Belmont were essentially Nintendo characters in the minds of original fans, in that they were on the NES much like Megaman.

Both make sense in Smash.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

All these anime Xenoblade fans arguing with each other, and I'm here wondering how things will turn out in the end.

In regards to Sora, I can't help but think that he would be an absolute licensing nightmare given he's owned by Disney.

With two major Xenoblade titles having released I would be very shocked. However if the focus is on the "Ultimate Smash Roster" and based more off the ballot than just what's relevant this could be the case.

I kinda wanna make a prediction with that being the basis of the roster.

That would be pretty awesome.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Werll since people are posting new updated roster dream/prediction, here's mine.

-Replaced Ryu Hayabusa with Simon
-Added back Cloud
-Added back Mii Fighters
-71 Characters

 

[Polan]

mirror mirror on the wall show me the worst opinion of them all.

I feel out of all the current series, Xenoblade is one of the most likely to get a newcomer. But it won't be a lifeless side character from an old side entry when theres already a better main entry title with a proper protagonist with plenty of mechanics that will blend well into Smash. The stupid rule that its too new doesn't exist and nor does it apply to XBC2's case as it was revealed very shortly after Sakurai started planning the roster.

 

[Fenriraga]

I've played both (idk about the other person but whatever) and I'm not sure what you mean by arguments being addressed by end-game tbh

Pyra (And Mythra by extension) are very different characters by the end game given the events that transpire. They act on their own accord plenty of times and break the "harem waifu" trope I keep seeing get tossed around all the time. I don't really want to get into spoilers here.

Meanwhile, at the same time, while Elma is widely considered to just be the bland side character for the protagonist, her purpose in the game's ending is pretty substantial, and really, despite being a foil for your silent protagonist, it really is more her story. Much like Chrom compared to Robin.

I'm just saying both characters aren't as black and white as people make them out to be.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

How would Blight Ganon even work? Not judging, more curious because I've never seen anyone suggest them.

Also I agree with the Rayman. Makes too much sense.

Concerning Thunderblight Ganon, I actually thought that his speed and electrical pillars could make for some interesting moveset, where he could set up a trap in one place with his neutral B and escape as fast as possible with and Up special teleporting him.
He could also use his shield that could break after time as a down B.
For the sidel B, electrical orbs seen in his boss battle.
Not only was it my favorite fight in BOTW, the opponent is the size of Link (well, almost).
My favorite Ganon form in this, however I understand that he is not really popular at all. I hope he'll at least get a trophy for the best boss battle in this amazing game.

 

[Pakky]

Just watched that Source gaming vid about Rayman being unlikely.

LOL okay... 25% get outta here, he was in the game already!

They made a 3D model just for him and they made some for his crew!

What kind of opinion is that?

I mean I would put him above a ton of 3rd parties, because like I said assets kind of exist already they just need to be rigged and animated.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Yawn. Call me where there is a Rate That Character video for a Fatal Frame character.

Which will never happen.