Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[SchAlternate]

Soooo... question!

Do you think all the veterans shown in silhouette back at the teaser will be shown at E3? Because that's about 20 ish characters right from the get go. Because that's about a whole third the roster size from Smash 4, and that's not counting potential newcomers!

Then again, it would make sense. The roster only increases in size with each installment, and the window of release is (supposedly) less than half a year away, so maybe they'd want to pump as much content as possible on the to the release date.

 

[Bowserlick]

I already decided from one of the first leaks that Ridley is in the game.

Not even Ridley being excluded from the game could change my mind at this point.

 

[Hinata]

I already decided from one of the first leaks that Ridley is in the game.

Not even Ridley being excluded from the game could change my mind at this point.

*2 years later, the final DLC character is revealed and it's not Ridley, nor has Ridley been revealed at any point prior*

Bowserlick: Don't worry, guys. He's in the game. Just you wait.

 

[Deleted member]

>Some guy spreads rumors about my most wanted character getting in and his track record makes me scared.

....no, im not gonna believe this. If i wanted to trust someone on the basis of what i desire and get dissapointed by reality, i would be in a relationship.

 

[Retroend]

I think a lot of people are just coming up with overly complicated ideas using what makes a particular Pokemon unique, because without those things the Pokemon in question is rather popular, but not interesting when it comes to a game like Smash.

This is why I still think a character like Mimikyu or Decidueye is the better pick.

Decidueye would work. as for eevee, it just complicates things to add different effects to movesets. i doubt sakurai would go that far for a character. sure eevee can be unique but he would be a very complicated character to make around its evolutions, not to mention balance. though i prefer eevee over mimikyu.

 

[SchAlternate]

And everyone missed my question.

 

[Murlough]

Soooo... question!

Do you think all the veterans shown in silhouette back at the teaser will be shown at E3? Because that's about 20 ish characters right from the get go. Because that's about a whole third the roster size from Smash 4, and that's not counting potential newcomers!

Then again, it would make sense. The roster only increases in size with each installment, and the window of release is (supposedly) less than half a year away, so maybe they'd want to pump as much content as possible on the to the release date.

I'm willing to bet yes. Its not like the silhouette characters are super secret and stuff. We all know who they are. There is no reason for them to not be playable at E3. I'm more interested in literally anyone other than those characters tbh.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

I mean he's not my choice.

But boring? Not really.

He uses a whip. Not a single person in the cast does that.

He brings something entirely new to the game weapon wise alone, without getting into anything else about him.

Granted, he has holy water and such, but ZSS, especially , undermine the whip as a claim to fame. Granted, he has zair combos in his own game, which is something.

 

[Senselessbreak]

At first, I thought this leak was saying that Ridley, Simon, and Inklings would be the only newcomers in this game, and I was about to be so upset.

Well if it is infact built upon Smash 4's engine as we see the entire cast intact, it could mean much more time to develop more characters. I'd expect around 15-20 (not counting DLC) as thats been the magic range for the past few games.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Granted, he has holy water and such, but ZSS, especially , undermine the whip as a claim to fame. Granted, he has zair combos in his own game, which is something.

Zero Suit Samus very rarely uses her whip. It'd be like saying Pauline wouldn't be unique because Peach uses a Parasol for literally only one move.

The fluid movement of Simon's whip and the fact that it can attack in eight directions is entirely unique.

 

[Arcanir]

Vergeben is back (He's been proven to be legit a handful of times)

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-for-nintendo-switch/76614511#7

So its this is right it means, Its a roster port with everyone from Wii U, and Ridley, Simon Belmont and Ice Climbers. I like it!

Considering we were just talking about him yesterday, I find it funny he nixed the third party batch of his initial rumors considering that was by far the weakest link of his bunch and often got him ignored.

I still can't say I'm on board with him since he has a spotty record, but hey, E3's not too far off so it's not like we'll have to wait too long to know its status.

 

[RosaPeach]

Please put more words in your roster post instead of an image only. Would also be neat if you cropped it more to remove some of that white space, but eh, that's not as important.

Oh sorry I remember

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Oh sorry I remember

It also helps us discuss more.

 

[Arcadenik]

Granted, he has holy water and such, but ZSS, especially , undermine the whip as a claim to fame. Granted, he has zair combos in his own game, which is something.

Fair point but Zero Suit Samus only uses the plasma whip for Side+B, grabs, and some Smash moves. Her moveset does not revolve around the whip.

Simon Belmont would be using the whip more than Samus does.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Bomberman and Simon are the only third parties left that I can really see getting in. At the very least they are the only ones where there is no question that they have earned inclusion and would be extremely popular. Bomberman and Castlevania are insanely iconic and popular IPs and both have made their home on Nintendo consoles in exclusive installments.

I don't think being from the same company affects the chances of any characters. Snake being from Konami is most likely entirely irrelevant unless someone can provide evidence that Konami would actively object to Sakurai wanting Bomberman and Simon, but not Snake. And "Well it's just logical" is not evidence. That's just not how license negotiating works.

Licensing is about getting permission, not about handing the decision making over to another company. If Sakurai wanted Bomberman and Simon, but not Snake, and for some reason Konami tells them "No, you have to add Snake," (which is like a naive child's perception on how negotiations work) then the result would be none of them making the cut.

This isn't Konami All-Stars, so whomever the company considers their mascot is irrelevant. And I don't think Snake being a veteran is relevant to the conversation either, because the objective is not "We need a Konami character, so who would be the best one".

 

[Sigran101]

Icon is not subjective. One does not garner a legacy and then it suddenly fades. That's what being an icon is.

Madonna is an icon. Is she still relevant to music as much as she was back in her hayday? Do teenagers still listen to her that much? No. But that doesn't rob her of being a music icon.

**** I'll go even further in music. Celine Dion. Musical icon. A queen of her genre. Do kids these days listen to her? Not really. But hell there she was just a few weeks ago reminding the world of her stature in the music world by hyping everyone up about Deadpool 2 of all things.

Michelle Pfeiffer lit up the acting world in the 80s and 90s and got nominated for 3 Oscars. She was THE Catwoman for a lot of people. Now to most kids (at least until probably Ant Man and the Wasp) she's just some woman in a Bruno Mars lyric, but that very lyric still proves she's an icon. She's someone whose legacy is long lasting. She lit up the world changed it and people still remember her.

That's what an icon is. Icon is not something that fades over time or disuse. It's what you did and how you left your mark.

It's like you said Indiana Jones? Indiana Jones might not be currently in use and hip with the kids, but his icon burns bright still because of the sheer fact that you still have imitators to this day in the Uncharted cast and Tomb Raider. Hell, his imitators have imitators.

So no icon is not subjective. You can say that because someone might not know who they are that they're not iconic, but that'd just be untrue.

That just makes that person unaware to that person's former status or even current status, which Lara's games still sell extremely well so it's like please ya'll are trying too hard to defame her.

My point was not that she is not iconic because the younger generation does not know her. My point was that if the younger generation don't even know who she is, it is hard to argue that she is objectively the most iconic of all time. Of all time being the key phrase. If she is the greatest female in gaming ever, then one would think most gamers would know her. Darth Vader, everyone knows. Madonna everyone knows. Not everyone listens to Madonna and not everyone watches star wars, yet any kid and any adult will agree how iconic they are. Just like you said, it's not whether you're current or inat the time. The most iconic people and characters of all time are still well known when they are no longer in or hip. That is what makes them iconic. Lara Croft is certainly an extremely iconic character. I'm not arguing against that. I just think calling her objectively the most iconic female game character ever is going a little far if the younger generation don't even know who she is. Maybe if you took a survey of every person in the world you would find that she is the most well known female character in gaming, but it's not so definitive.

 

[Senselessbreak]

Bomberman and Simon are the only third parties left that I can really see getting in. At the very least they are the only ones where there is no question that they have earned inclusion and would be extremely popular. Bomberman and Castlevania are insanely iconic and popular IPs and both have made their home on Nintendo consoles in exclusive installments.

I don't think being from the same company affects the chances of any characters. Snake being from Konami is most likely entirely irrelevant unless someone can provide evidence that Konami would actively object to Sakurai wanting Bomberman and Simon, but not Snake. And "Well it's just logical" is not evidence. That's just not how license negotiating works.

Licensing is about getting permission, not about handing the decision making over to another company. If Sakurai wanted Bomberman and Simon, but not Snake, and for some reason Konami tells them "No, you have to add Snake," (which is like a naive child's perception on how negotiations work) then the result would be none of them making the cut.

This isn't Konami All-Stars so whomever the company considers their mascot is irrelevant.

If Simon and Bomberman get in, I think it furthers the point that Sakurai is only willing to work with Japanese third party devs.

Although he did work with Ubisoft for the Rayman model so its possible in his case.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Licensing is about getting permission, not about handing the decision making over to another company.

Tell that to Game Freak

 

[Bowserlick]

Sheik had essentially a Simon Belmont move with her chain whip.

But now she doesn't.

Bomberman, Belmont, and Geno seem like big draw third-party characters to me.

Rayman did have that trophy in Sm4sh. That is something, along with Rabbids in Mushroom Kingdom.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Tell that to Game Freak

Tell that to nobody, because Sakurai still has the final say. He chose Greninja. Just like he chose every other character. Sakurai is Ash Ketchum when it comes to deciding the roster, not Game Freak.

 

[Hinata]

Well if it is infact built upon Smash 4's engine as we see the entire cast intact, it could mean much more time to develop more characters. I'd expect around 15-20 (not counting DLC) as thats been the magic range for the past few games.

15-20 newcomers is totally fine by me, I was just saying that if we only had those three as newcomers, I would be hella disappointed.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

If Simon and Bomberman get in, I think it furthers the point that Sakurai is only willing to work with Japanese third party devs.

Oh, great. Another "Sakurai is bias" accusation. All it proves is that the best video game mascots happen to be from Japanese companies or that all the third party characters in the game just incidentally happen to be Japanese.

 

[Senselessbreak]

Sheik had essentially a Simon Belmont move with her chain whip.

But now she doesn't.

Bomberman, Belmont ,and Geno seem like big draw third-party characters to me.

Rayman did have that trophy in Sm4sh. That is something, along with Rabbids in Mushroom Kingdom.

I think the biggest Japanese drawing character at this point is Monster Hunter. The series is now Capcom's best selling and it is a hardcore favorite among Nintendo (Animal Crossing, Badge Arcade, amiibos and even mario content in Monster Hunter)

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Tell that to nobody, because Sakurai still has the final say. He chose Greninja.

Hah
"You can pick between being stabbed or poisoned, but whichever you pick, it's your choice."
Game Freak let him have a pick of three, but he had to pick one of them.

Edit: Not that I'm saying he took issue with Greninja, I'm just saying that if he didn't want to add any of the starters, it appears that it would have been tough luck.

 

[Minch]

Hello, I am new to this website.

Is this where I find the hype?

 

[Murlough]

Hah
"You can pick between being stabbed or poisoned, but whichever you pick, it's your choice."
Game Freak let him have a pick of three, but he had to pick one of them.

Tell that to nobody, because Sakurai still has the final say. He chose Greninja. Just like he chose every other character. Sakurai is Ash Ketchum when it comes to deciding the roster, not Game Freak.

Do either of you know this for a fact or are you both just saying stuff. I'm actually curious how this kinda business deal goes down but yalls comments look more like "this is how I think those work" rather than any actual facts.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

My point was not that she is not iconic because the younger generation does not know her. My point was that if the younger generation don't even know who she is, it is hard to argue that she is objectively the most iconic of all time. Of all time being the key phrase. If she is the greatest female in gaming ever, then one would think most gamers would know her. Darth Vader, everyone knows. Madonna everyone knows. Not everyone listens to Madonna and not everyone watches star wars, yet any kid and any adult will agree how iconic they are. Just like you said, it's not whether you're current or inat the time. The most iconic people and characters of all time are still well known when they are no longer in or hip. That is what makes them iconic. Lara Croft is certainly an extremely iconic character. I'm not arguing against that. I just think calling her objectively the most iconic female game character ever is going a little far if the younger generation don't even know who she is. Maybe if you took a survey of every person in the world you would find that she is the most well known female character in gaming, but it's not so definitive.

Her games are selling though? So your point is still broken. She is still a fast selling iconic video game character. She holds the title for best female seller still and currently. It's actually in the Guinness World Records.

The reboot has sold 11 million copies since it's release. Do you really think 11 million people constitutes only the people who grew up playing her in the 90's? Don't think so.

It's sequel has sold 7 million copies since it's release.

Like you can try to argue that only a certain group of people knows Lara Croft, but that rings completely untrue.

Not to mention she JUST had a film adaption of the reboot in theaters. And little kids and teens go to the movies and see ads online and on TV and stuff all the time. And while it didn't exactly break even it still made damn near close to it's break even amount in 275 million worldwide.

Lara Croft is not some ancient forgotten icon of time and ya'll really need to stop pretending she is.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Do either of you know this for a fact or are you both just saying stuff. I'm actually curious how this kinda business deal goes down but yalls comments look more like "this is how I think those work" rather than any actual facts.

I remember reading something he wrote/said where he explained that he was basically just given three pictures with no real information and told to pick one of them. I don't remember where it was, though I think it was just some interview around the time of release.

 

[PSIguy89]

If Simon Belmont really is one of the first 3rd party newcomers to be shown I’ll be pretty damn hyped! Imo he is one of the very few 3rd party choices left that has really earned a spot on Smash’s roster. And think of allllll that glorious Castlevania music

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Hah
"You can pick between being stabbed or poisoned, but whichever you pick, it's your choice."
Game Freak let him have a pick of three, but he had to pick one of them.

Edit: Not that I'm saying he took issue with Greninja, I'm just saying that if he didn't want to add any of the starters, it appears that it would have been tough luck.

It's even funnier that you laugh because I laughed at the previous post and I'm laughing even harder at this one because you misinterpret the context completely. Furthermore, the context that you think it is in doesn't even prove your point, which is that GameFreak can make the final decision for Sakurai.

 

[Sage of Ice]

I remember reading something he wrote/said where he explained that he was basically just given three pictures with no real information and told to pick one of them. I don't remember where it was, though I think it was just some interview around the time of release.

wonder what the other two would've been? chesnaught and delphox seem obvious i guess. i'm not big on greninja but there's not a lot from gen 6 i could see working out better tbh.

anyway all this ridley talk has me more excited than smash 4's entire newcomer selection combined. if it took this long to come up with something they feel does him justice then i really hope it pays off~

 

[Zinith]

Hello, I am new to this website.

Is this where I find the hype?

Actually it's more like "hype finds you, whether you like it or not"

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I also forgot to mention. Check Wikipedia.

Tomb Raider is the first franchise you find that has a SOLE lead female character in the top selling video game franchises having sold 58 million copies worldwide. No other female lead franchise is above her. Arguably there's Resident Evil with 82 million, but Jill and Claire share that spotlight with Chris and Leon.

Same for Final Fantasy which is above her. While there are Terra, Yuna and Lightning? They share a franchise with a bunch of dudes who share the iconic nature of Final Fantasy with them.

 

[Senselessbreak]

Hello, I am new to this website.

Is this where I find the hype?

Sorry the hype is down the hall and to the left.

Spoiler

Welcome to the crazyiest of hyped times.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

wonder what the other two would've been? chesnaught and delphox seem obvious i guess. i'm not big on greninja but there's not a lot from gen 6 i could see working out better tbh.

Oh, sorry, I should have been more specific, but you're right that it was the three starters (I don't remember if he said they were all final evolutions or if it was just implied).

 

[Sigran101]

Her games are selling though? So your point is still broken. She is still a fast selling iconic video game character. She holds the title for best female seller still and currently. It's actually in the Guinness World Records.

The reboot has sold 11 million copies since it's release. Do you really think 11 million people constitutes only the people who grew up playing her in the 90's? Don't think so.

It's sequel has sold 7 million copies since it's release.

Like you can try to argue that only a certain group of people knows Lara Croft, but that rings completely untrue.

Not to mention she JUST had a film adaption of the reboot in theaters. And little kids and teens go to the movies and see ads online and on TV and stuff all the time. And while it didn't exactly break even it still made damn near close to it's break even amount in 275 million worldwide.

Lara Croft is not some ancient forgotten icon of time and ya'll really need to stop pretending she is.

You keep missing my point. I completely agree that she is incredibley iconic. I just think she's not objectively the most iconic ever. There's a big difference.

 

[Minch]

Actually it's more like "hype finds you, whether you like it or not"

Sorry the hype is down the hall and to the left.

Spoiler

Welcome to the crazyiest of hyped times.

Is Home Depot still the meme for this Smash season?
It's been a while since Smash 4...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Oh, sorry, I should have been more specific, but you're right that it was the three starters (I don't remember if he said they were all final evolutions or if it was just implied).

All three were shown, yep. Sakurai was looking for a Gen VI character, and asked them. They presented him 3 options. He went with what was there. Overall, they both had a lot of control of the situation. If they said no to the idea? No Greninja. If he said no to Greninja? No Greninja. It's as simple as that.

Not really a good example of licensing, though. Since it had nothing to do with that specifically.

 

[Deleted member]

I think people are sleeping on Laura Craft's chances. They are still low, but she is one of the most popular gaming women to date, and I think her chances are higher than we think they are.

Also is it bad I want more XC characters ( Elma, Rex, Pyra, Mythra )? I think more XC characters would brighten up the game and make a potentially great Subspace, but that is just me. Three of them have a game which focuses pretty well with story.

What Pokemon are y'all rooting to be in Smash Switch?

That is a good question.... Decidueye and Incineroar.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

You keep missing my point. I completely agree that she is incredibley iconic. I just think she's not objectively the most iconic ever. There's a big difference.

I don't think I'm missing your point. I think your missing MINE. The sales and records show. Not one female lead franchise that is solely female lead has the success of Tomb Raider.

So to me and a lot of the world that does read as Lara is easily the female video game most recognized world wide.

But we're not going to get anywhere with this discussion because we as a group keep having it and it never gets anywhere. Lol.