Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[TheLastJinjo]

If there's going to be a Team Rocket "Rep" in Smash, it's going to be Mimikyu.

 

[Chandeelure]

Hey! It was cool...

I know its non-canon and will never happen but its infinitely more interesting than the Peach clone most people seem to expect out of the character.

Daisy using flowers, plants and some Super Mario Land stuff is enough for an unique moveset.

Most people think Daisy would probably be a clone, not because she doesn't have potential, but because she looks similar to Peach and Sakurai generally makes those type of characters clones or semiclones to save time.

Every character can be unique if you use your imagination.

My team rocker idea was meowth on top of Koffing (rolling around on him like a ball) using Ekans as a whip.

 

[Super Flygon]

While I'm sure everyone knows that people who go to E3 can reserve for a chance to play Smash Switch, there is an interesting detail, which I haven't seen discussed.

There are 2 ticket types, which are For Fun and For Glory, just like the online modes for Smash 3DS/Wii U. Kind of adds credence to the idea that Nintendo is at least reusing assets for Smash Switch, and probably the first real hint of that. Scroll all the way to the bottom in this link: https://e3.nintendo.com/attendee-faq/

 

[Kamikazek]

So Eevee-

1. I'd be 1000% with just having Eevee with no involvement from the eevolutions other than final Smash (evo boost probably). I think you could make a solid fighter out of it. I can't see it being interesting enough for Sakurai to go with with his recent design philosophy though.

2. Easiest way to incorporate eevelutions I think would be to pull a Ness and give Eevee moves from all of them(with, again, them all showing up for the final Smash). The character wouldn't have an overarching gimmick like Shulk, Robin, Cloud, Rosalina ect. but could easily have enough interesting individual moves to merit inclusion these days along the lines of Villager, Megaman, Corrin, Pacman ect., and could even be pitched as a character that really focuses on the moves aspect of Pokemon. The main problem here is the Pokémon company, since that's not actually a thing Eevee can do and they're sticklers about that in a way that isn't an issue with Mother characters for instance.

3. As for the various evolution or summoning mechanics; people have mentioned they'd be an engine strain nightmare, which is correct but is actually the main reason I could see them going with it (or Eevee at all really). As a showing off of hardware power or improved coding/engine efficiency or what have you. "Look at this crazy thing we can do that we couldn't have done before and you're probably surprised we can do now!" sort a thing, and pull it off in a way that works more organically than Pokémon Trainer did. Even then though, I can't see them pulling off all 8, probably just original 3 plus Eevee, maaaaybe Sylvion too since it's the most recent.


That all said I'd be jaw to the floor shocked if Eevee were a character in any capacity. Not because it doesn't have good potential but because it just doesn't stand out much as a Pokémon at the moment. Maybe DLC if the new game does indeed promote it heavily and the game ends up making a huge splash, that I could see. Or if the games come out at same time and Sora and The Pokémon company pulled some craaaazy ahead of time cross promotion planning which I wouldn't expect. He's more of a fun character to make movesets for than one to expect.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

While I'm sure everyone knows that people who go to E3 can reserve for a chance to play Smash Switch, there is an interesting detail, which I haven't seen discussed.

There are 2 ticket types, which are For Fun and For Glory, just like the online modes for Smash 3DS/Wii U. Kind of adds credence to the idea that Nintendo is at least reusing assets for Smash Switch, and probably the first real hint of that. Scroll all the way to the bottom in this link: https://e3.nintendo.com/attendee-faq/

I'm thinking it's just a Splatoon 2 type deal, basically a half-port. That makes some sense. We have yet to see any real gameplay, so there's no way to judge yet besides small things like this. Plus, the only trailer we had uses the Smash Logo's main style from 4, which is the burning cross for newcomers.

 

[Super Flygon]

I'm thinking it's just a Splatoon 2 type deal, basically a half-port. That makes some sense. We have yet to see any real gameplay, so there's no way to judge yet besides small things like this. Plus, the only trailer we had uses the Smash Logo's main style from 4, which is the burning cross for newcomers.

I'd be fine with it being like Splatoon 2. The Wii U version of Smash has sold poorly. It would be terrible to let all those assets essentially go to waste, so it makes sense to reuse them for a game that is almost certainly going to sell millions.

 

[Murlough]

Daisy using flowers, plants and some Super Mario Land stuff is enough for an unique moveset.

Most people think Daisy would probably be a clone, not because she doesn't have potential, but because she looks similar to Peach and Sakurai generally makes those type of characters clones or semiclones to save time.

Every character can be unique if you use your imagination.



View attachment 144779

I am aware of everything you said. If I wasn't I wouldn't have mentioned that I didn't like the flower thing and that most people (as in not me) expect Daisy to be a clone of Peach if she is included. I didn't think it was necessary to also type "except me and a lot of Daisy fans," since that kinda speaks for itself.

The point of my post was a "biased newcomer" and I went rolled with it by choosing "Strikers Daisy." I never said Daisy has no other potential.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

3. As for the various evolution or summoning mechanics; people have mentioned they'd be an engine strain nightmare, which is correct.

Summoning, sure, but definitely not evolving. You don't need all 8 models loaded at once, you need one character, then one other character. At the peak of the spike there's no way it's even as high-maintenance as Ice Climbers are just by existing, and the consensus is that there's not a good technical reason for them not to return.

 

[TheDukeofDorks]

While I'm sure everyone knows that people who go to E3 can reserve for a chance to play Smash Switch, there is an interesting detail, which I haven't seen discussed.

There are 2 ticket types, which are For Fun and For Glory, just like the online modes for Smash 3DS/Wii U. Kind of adds credence to the idea that Nintendo is at least reusing assets for Smash Switch, and probably the first real hint of that. Scroll all the way to the bottom in this link: https://e3.nintendo.com/attendee-faq/

This just strikes me as them having two separate demos available, one dedicated to one vs. one, no items matches, while the other is for 4 player battles with items on. Seems like they're trying to separate the different audiences into their preferred playstyles.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Thoughts on Vince becoming a newcomer in Smash 5? Art Academy is a longstanding series, but I'm not entirely sure how successful it's been. I've never played it, but it''s definitely not something to overlook so quickly. An artist is an interesting idea for a fighter. (Please make Adeleine playable, Sakurai.)

Of course, what's really important is if people will recognize him. I don't know how well the games sold, but there are definitely a lot of installments.

 

[Chandeelure]

Where are my Smash leaks?

No, Emily's doesn't count because it means almost nothing haha.

 

[Super Flygon]

This just strikes me as them having two separate demos available, one dedicated to one vs. one, no items matches, while the other is for 4 player battles with items on. Seems like they're trying to separate the different audiences into their preferred playstyles.

I agree. The main reason I pointed it out is that I found it interesting that they are using the same wording from Smash 3DS/Wii U, as opposed to coming up with something entirely new.

 

[Bowserlick]

If you are going to do a more simple semi-clone version of Daisy off of Peach, then have Daisy be able to float up and down on a limited axis instead of side to side.

 

[TheDukeofDorks]

I agree. The main reason I pointed it out is that I found it interesting that they are using the same wording from Smash 3DS/Wii U, as opposed to coming up with something entirely new.

I mean, sure, but what else are they going to call it? "For Fun" and "For Glory" sums up each playstyle very nicely, I wouldn't be surprised if the terms stick around for many games to come.

 

[Zinith]

I mean, sure, but what else are they going to call it? "For Fun" and "For Glory" sums up each playstyle very nicely, I wouldn't be surprised if the terms stick around for many games to come.

"For Glory" has gotten a lot of stigma over the years though.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

"For Glory" has gotten a lot of stigma over the years though.

It makes me worried that they are somehow ignoring that "FD only" isn't actually balanced since they're keeping that term...

 

[Wyoming]

I mean, sure, but what else are they going to call it? "For Fun" and "For Glory" sums up each playstyle very nicely, I wouldn't be surprised if the terms stick around for many games to come.

Ranked and Unranked whilst both modes get revamps would work nicely.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It makes me worried that they are somehow ignoring that "FD only" isn't actually balanced since they're keeping that term...

Wouldn't surprise me. It's not like they know everything top players do about competitive play.

 

[Roberk]

My guilty Pokemon pick is a Pokemon Trainer. No, not how it was implemented in Brawl, I want to play as a straight-up trainer on the battlefield. Of course, he'd use Pokemon for attacks and such, like a flying type for a recovery for example. Maybe a rope as a grab. Basically, a Pokemon summoner using some iconic items from Pokemon as well.

Pokemon Trainer in Brawl never felt like a Pokemon Trainer that was true to the games. It was just 3 Pokemon in one slot. In Smash, the inputs you put into the game control the character, you play as that character. It was never playing as the Trainer bar the transformation mechanic (which sucked). In Pokemon, the Trainer is an avatar, a way to insert yourself into the game. You walk around yourself and tell your Pokemon what attacks to carry out. While Pokemon are a big part of the game, the trainer does many things themselves.

Compare it to Robin, another self-insert avatar. A connection that people who played Awakening have with Robin in Smash is there because Robin is an extension of them, they played as and were Robin in his game of origin. Pokemon Trainer is a barebones version of Robin, you don't actually control them, you directly control the Pokemon. You lose the immersion of being and playing as the Trainer when you have no control over their movement and are just playing the Pokemon instead. The Pokemon with the Trainer should be extensions of the Trainer, aiding their actions. The Trainer shouldn't just be relegated to some Platform on the Z-Axis, just cheering their Pokemon on without doing anything themselves.

Pokemon is an RPG, a role playing game. You play as a Pokemon Trainer, using your Pokemon to overcome whatever comes your way. You don't roleplay as a Trainer in Smash, you just play as an animal (barring Mewtwo who's unique of course.)

 

[Wyoming]

Isn't FD only due to the Japanese ruleset?

 

[EnthusedPanda]

Wouldn't surprise me. It's not like they know everything top players do about competitive play.

True, but they’re like ... feigning interest, then, in inviting who they picked for the invitational.

That they go just far enough to suggest they’re dimly aware of us but are then relentlessly oblivious to the trends and mainstays of how communities come together and make the game great sort of cheapens things.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

True, but they’re like ... feigning interest, then, in inviting who they picked for the invitational.

That they go just far enough to suggest they’re dimly aware of us but are then relentlessly oblivious to the trends and mainstays of how communities come together and make the game great sort of cheapens things.

Well, they can only pay attention to what they see. So high level tournaments and For Fun/For Glory as is. If it doesn't happen on there, it's not as likely for them to know the issue exists.

Isn't FD only due to the Japanese ruleset?

I don't know, though that would explain it.

 

[Murlough]

Isn't FD only due to the Japanese ruleset?

Japan doesn't do that, either. When Sakurai did that FD only thing it had nothing to do with what he researched prior to the decision. If I remember correctly, the only major difference between Japanese competitive and American competitive is the stock count and time limit. The stage list might be slightly different but not anything crazy.

I believe since the start of Smash 4 Sakurai has warmed up a little to the competitive side (though he still very much prefers the casual side) so hopefully he will make omega stages not just FD. Even if some are terrible and the platforms are imbalanced at least its better than FD and at least SOME are bound to be decent.

EDIT: I feel its important to recognize that Sakurai did appreciate the competitive scene enough to do something. He may not have liked competitive and it may not have been what competitive players wanted but the man did go out of his way for the fans by making an omega version of each stage to begin with. I could see other developers (hi, Bungie) just blowing off their consumers but Sakurai is just such a good dude.

He didn't have to invent Omega stages. He didn't have to include For Glory. He didn't have to remove tripping (even though many casual players likely complained about this too). He genuinely has done something for every kind of fan. The Smash Ballot, too. The more I think about it the more he deserves mad respect./rant

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Where are my Smash leaks?

Flex Taped!

In all seriousness, though, could this mean Phil Swift is coming to Smash? I hope so. Because I don't want any leaks.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

If it doesn't happen on there, it's not as likely for them to know the issue exists.

I cannot believe that one of the most uniform and lasting complaints (at least from America, apparently) about the balance of the game is something that they wouldn't be aware of. It's not like they only pay attention to people who speak Japanese, then toss the game to localizers and leave them to it, never to hear of what anyone else in the world had to say.

 

[papagenos]

Summoning, sure, but definitely not evolving. You don't need all 8 models loaded at once, you need one character, then one other character. At the peak of the spike there's no way it's even as high-maintenance as Ice Climbers are just by existing, and the consensus is that there's not a good technical reason for them not to return.

This.

I think coming off of smash 4 where things were purposely held back because of the 3DS people have a mindset that isn't conducive to interesting new mechanics being implemented but that is exactly one of the reason to add a particular character in sakurais mind.

Transformations, custom special moves, double characters, monado forms, meters, different koopalings alts etc... a lot of "strange" things have been implemented in smash before that people would have said wouldn't happen but are honestly the reason sakurai gets excited and often the reason why he adds a certain newcomer. Eevee having the ability to say, gain exp and evolve into vaporeon/flareon/jolteon, is not some impossibility in fact its the reason sakurai would probably be cool with adding the character for a unique playstyle. Eevee is and has been one of the most popular pokemon for a while now (just look at any pokemon merchandise and theres usually n eevee version) and if the pokemon company told him they wanted to push eevee as he would be a major part of the next iteration of pokemon, I dont think sakurai would shy away from thinking up and implementing many of the ideas we all just thought up ourselves. Again baring the rumors being true or not I think eevee is very very likely now and I cant imagine the "evolution" pokemon not using evolution as a major part of what gives it a unique moveset. This doesn't hinder its chances having an interesting evolution mechanic infact it does the opposite it marks another box in favor of why its a good idea for a newcomer.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

The problem with the whole Lara Croft debate is that iconic is subjective. For people who were teens or tweens when she first appeared, she is crazy iconic. For people who were getting into video games when the Wii came out, probably not so much. I personally didn't even know who she is until several years ago. Is she incredibley iconic? Of course. Is she the most iconic female character of all time? Not so sure. We live in a time where the freaking angry birds are probably some of the most iconic characters out there. It's like trying to decide on the most iconic movie character. Some people will probably say Darth Vader. Some will say Indiana Jones. Modern kids will probably say iron Man or something. It depends on the person. You really can't call anyone the most iconic of all.

Icon is not subjective. One does not garner a legacy and then it suddenly fades. That's what being an icon is.

Madonna is an icon. Is she still relevant to music as much as she was back in her hayday? Do teenagers still listen to her that much? No. But that doesn't rob her of being a music icon.

**** I'll go even further in music. Celine Dion. Musical icon. A queen of her genre. Do kids these days listen to her? Not really. But hell there she was just a few weeks ago reminding the world of her stature in the music world by hyping everyone up about Deadpool 2 of all things.

Michelle Pfeiffer lit up the acting world in the 80s and 90s and got nominated for 3 Oscars. She was THE Catwoman for a lot of people. Now to most kids (at least until probably Ant Man and the Wasp) she's just some woman in a Bruno Mars lyric, but that very lyric still proves she's an icon. She's someone whose legacy is long lasting. She lit up the world changed it and people still remember her.

That's what an icon is. Icon is not something that fades over time or disuse. It's what you did and how you left your mark.

It's like you said Indiana Jones? Indiana Jones might not be currently in use and hip with the kids, but his icon burns bright still because of the sheer fact that you still have imitators to this day in the Uncharted cast and Tomb Raider. Hell, his imitators have imitators.

So no icon is not subjective. You can say that because someone might not know who they are that they're not iconic, but that'd just be untrue.

That just makes that person unaware to that person's former status or even current status, which Lara's games still sell extremely well so it's like please ya'll are trying too hard to defame her.

 

[Senselessbreak]

Vergeben is back (He's been proven to be legit a handful of times)

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-for-nintendo-switch/76614511#7

So its this is right it means, Its a roster port with everyone from Wii U, and Ridley, Simon Belmont and Ice Climbers. I like it!

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Vergeben is back (He's been proven to be legit a handful of times)

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-for-nintendo-switch/76614511#7

So its this is right it means, Its a roster port with everyone from Wii U, and Ridley, Simon Belmont and Ice Climbers. I like it!

What has he gotten right before out of curiosity?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Vergeben is back (He's been proven to be legit a handful of times)

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-for-nintendo-switch/76614511#7

So its this is right it means, Its a roster port with everyone from Wii U, and Ridley, Simon Belmont and Ice Climbers. I like it!

This feels too good to be true. Though I totally would be all for it.

And more, like Wolf. >.>

 

[Senselessbreak]

What has he gotten right before out of curiosity?

From what I know its:
DLC for Injustice 2 (Very unsafe choices with all 4 ninja turtles)
DLC for one of the DBZ games
That MP4 is Bandai Namco

And now hes the one that started the Star Fox Grand Prix rumor which is having a lot of outlets coming out and backing.

We also have the resetera mods saying Ridley is in the game so it furthers this point.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

If true. I'd rather Bomberman than Simon Belmont, but eh I'll take it. I'll still give Simon a try because I really did like the Castlevania games back in the day.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

From what I know its:
DLC for Injustice 2 (Very unsafe choices with all 4 ninja turtles)
DLC for one of the DBZ games
That MP4 is Bandai Namco

And now hes the one that started the Star Fox Grand Prix rumor which is having a lot of outlets coming out and backing.

We also have the resetera mods saying Ridley is in the game so it furthers this point.

From what I understood, the Resetera mods simply were speculation Ridley could be in, not that he was actually in. Unless that's a completely different leak from the earlier one?

 

[Senselessbreak]

If true. I'd rather Bomberman than Simon Belmont, but eh I'll take it. I'll still give Simon a try because I really did like the Castlevania games back in the day.

Well if Simon is infact in that could be good for Bomberman since it means Sakurai is negotiating with Konami again.

Also regardless what anyone says in the Bomberman vs Simon debate, Castlevania wins HANDSDOWN when it comes to music choice.

 

[Deleted member]

Seems really wish listy, and as a general rule of thumb I don't trust text leaks. Guess we'll see how this turns out; Simon's a really boring 3rd party choice in my opinion. Ridley and the IC are cool though.

 

[Murlough]

Well, I already got three characters I wanted for Smash 5 be either confirmed or credibly "leaked" so I'm happy.

Someone tell him to link the new Pokemon.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Seems really wish listy, and as a general rule of thumb I don't trust text leaks. Guess we'll see how this turns out; Simon's a really boring 3rd party choice in my opinion. Ridley and the IC are cool though.

I mean he's not my choice.

But boring? Not really.

He uses a whip. Not a single person in the cast does that.

He brings something entirely new to the game weapon wise alone, without getting into anything else about him.

 

[papagenos]

Vergeben is back (He's been proven to be legit a handful of times)

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-for-nintendo-switch/76614511#7

So its this is right it means, Its a roster port with everyone from Wii U, and Ridley, Simon Belmont and Ice Climbers. I like it!

Would be super happy with this, E3 can't come soon enough...

 

[NintenRob]

You know what the good thing about text Smash leaks. There are so many of them that even if one is correct, the characters are still surprising because, well, there are so many of them, there may as well be none of them.

 

[Hinata]

Vergeben is back (He's been proven to be legit a handful of times)

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-for-nintendo-switch/76614511#7

So its this is right it means, Its a roster port with everyone from Wii U, and Ridley, Simon Belmont and Ice Climbers. I like it!

At first, I thought this leak was saying that Ridley, Simon, and Inklings would be the only newcomers in this game, and I was about to be so upset.