Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I just mean that Elma wouldn't be as recognizable to general consumers in the way Rex is. Much like how Robin was practically unknown outside of FE fans and Smash speculators and everyone was expecting Chrom instead. Obviously not the same scenario exactly but yeah.

Would Chrom really be known over Robin though??? I mean they were in the same game and we're both the main characters so I don't see how you could know one and not the other

 

[dream1ng]

I just mean that Elma wouldn't be as recognizable to general consumers in the way Rex is. Much like how Robin was practically unknown outside of FE fans and Smash speculators and everyone was expecting Chrom instead. Obviously not the same scenario exactly but yeah.

That's true, but any Xenoblade character isn't super recognizable to your general consumer.

Would Chrom really be known over Robin though??? I mean they were in the same game and we're both the main characters so I don't see how you could know one and not the other

If you'd play the game you'd know both, if you only followed the trailers and promotion, or only had a cursory knowledge of the game/series, Chrom was much more in the spotlight. I bet more people know Charizard than Venusaur. I bet more people know Tracer than some other Overwatch hero.

 

[Megadoomer]

Oh god imagine the ****storm that would go down if both Elma and Rex got in as completely unique characters in the base roster tho lmao. That's the best scenario to me but everyone would be crying lol.

I'd have no problem with it. I haven't gotten very far into XCX or XC2 (been meaning to beat the first one before that - at 98 hours and I'm still probably a good distance from the end), but it seems like both Rex and Elma have a lot to offer, and it wouldn't be like a Kid Icarus situation, where all of the content is based on a single game that Sakurai made.

 

[Pazzo.]

Didn't Sakurai state he bought the mech toy for the gun?

Why would he need just the gun...?

Maybe to add to his normal wooden artist figure he uses for all characters... to model Inklings?

 

[PLATINUM7]

Would Chrom really be known over Robin though??? I mean they were in the same game and we're both the main characters so I don't see how you could know one and not the other

Was Robin even featured anywhere for Awakening promotional material? Robin's not even on the boxart.

As someone who's only played the FE game that was part of the 3DS ambassador programme, I didn't know about Robin until seeing Smash 4 speculation. I knew of Chrom and Lucina, since they're characters who were front and centre everywhere but Robin wasn't. Didn't even know Robin was a main character.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Would Chrom really be known over Robin though??? I mean they were in the same game and we're both the main characters so I don't see how you could know one and not the other

He's known to people that have actually played the game, but if you're someone who's never played fire emblem and only seen promotional material your general thought is probably "oh this blue haired guy is the main character, he's gonna be in the next smash", I've seen a bunch of reaction videos where as soon as the robin trailer started people were saying it was chrom but then had no idea who robin was.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Neither did Shulk nor Little Mac. Xenoblade only came out 2 years after Super Sluggers. Punch out for Wii less than one.

Oh, my god. The argument was not that they weren't likely because of how long ago their last appearance was. The argument was that the universe they were from was making games without them and so they were very low priority newcomers.

K. Rool and Dixie are and always have been super popular characters and Donkey Kong is a huge series. I don't think most people expected them to just not add any new characters to it, especially with series like Fire Emblem getting 2 new ones.

That is not how adding newcomers works.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

That's true, but any Xenoblade character isn't super recognizable to your general consumer.


If you'd play the game you'd know both, if you only followed the trailers and promotion, Chrom was much more in the spotlight. I bet more people know Charizard than Venusaur. I bet more people know Tracer than some other Overwatch hero.

Who follows the promotion of an (at the time) obscure Nintendo game but doesn't intend to buy it?...I'm just saying I don't know anyone who didn't know Robin but was like "Oh Chrom!" in his final smash.

I do agree that Rex and Elma are in a different situation. That and Xenoblade is obscure already so you're going to have poeple go "Who?" No matter who gets in.

(Also I absolutely disagree that people wouldn't recognize Venusaur but that's off topic lol)

 

[dream1ng]

Who follows the promotion of an (at the time) obscure Nintendo game but doesn't intend to buy it?...I'm just saying I don't know anyone who didn't know Robin but was like "Oh Chrom!" in his final smash.

I do agree that Rex and Elma are in a different situation. That and Xenoblade is obscure already so you're going to have poeple go "Who?" No matter who gets in.

(Also I absolutely disagree that people wouldn't recognize Venusaur but that's off topic lol)

Anybody who watches Directs or follows Nintendo but doesn't play all their series? Lots of people.

And absolutely more people would recognize Charizard than Venusaur. Especially in the west where one was on the box of a cultural phenomenon and the other wasn't. Plus one is still used much more heavily in marketing than the other.

 

[Jak_spoon]

[Palutena] Granted,
[Little Mac] Granted,
[Bowser Jr.] Eh... some people were,
[6th gen pokemon] too vague,
[Fire Emblem Rep] too vague,
[Shulk] Granted,
[Pac-Man] Granted

The bigger problem here though is you aren't looking at all of the false positives there were, and there were a ton. Ridley, K. Rool, Dixie, Takamaru, Various Zelda Reps and tons more I can't be bothered to look up. Our accuracy isn't great.

Yea, let me summarize the fact that the roster was predictable in a single sentence or write out everything so a guy with a cat avatar can personally rate them.

Go back under your bridge.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Who follows the promotion of an (at the time) obscure Nintendo game but doesn't intend to buy it?...I'm just saying I don't know anyone who didn't know Robin but was like "Oh Chrom!" in his final smash.

More general Nintendo fans would have seen FE stuff in Directs.

 

[Pazzo.]

I remember first watching Awakening's trailers and getting confused why there were so many characters wearing the same cloak outfit.

Chrom seemed like the main character... which he was... but when you have Robin as the story's focus... the appeal's too great.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Anybody who watches Directs or follows Nintendo but doesn't play all their series? Lots of people.

And absolutely more people would recognize Charizard than Venusaur. Especially in the west where one was on the box of a cultural phenomenon and the other wasn't. Plus one is still used much more heavily in marketing than the other.

Ok so in the context of what matters for characters relevance, what person who would buy a smash game wouldn't know Venasaur, the third Pokemon in the Pokedex. And I'm from the West and I don't know a single person who plays smash who doesn't know gen 1 Pokemon.

I feel like that's something that gets lost. It's not important what characters people that aren't buying smash recognize. They aren't the target market.

As for Chrom, I can understand that. But knowing him as the blue haired guy doesn't really mean they know him either lol.

 

[Mr. Mumbles]

Yea, let me summarize the fact that the roster was predictable in a single sentence or write out everything so a guy with a cat avatar can personally rate them.

Go back under your bridge.

I'm not saying you should say what your predictions were. And indeed were you to do so I wouldn't particularly want you to do so for my sake.

I'm merely pointing out that without doing so 70% tells us nothing. Were they really vague predictions? Were there very few of them? There are any number of reasons why 70% could be kinda meh, or could be really impressive.

If you don't want people scrutinizing old predictions that's fine. Wouldn't particularly want anyone scrutinizing mine. But in which case, let's not go to percentage land.

 

[Jak_spoon]

Ok so in the context of what matters for characters relevance, what person who would buy a smash game wouldn't know Venasaur, the third Pokemon in the Pokedex. And I'm from the West and I don't know a single person who plays smash who doesn't know gen 1 Pokemon.

I feel like that's something that gets lost. It's not important what characters people that aren't buying smash recognize. They aren't the target market.

As for Chrom, I can understand that. But knowing him as the blue haired guy doesn't really mean they know him either lol.

The Pokemon Go phenomenon happened just two summers ago. Why are we questioning Gen one's recognizability?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

How many Smashes until all 151 original Pokemon have been in the game one way or another?

 

[dream1ng]

Ok so in the context of what matters for characters relevance, what person who would buy a smash game wouldn't know Venasaur, the third Pokemon in the Pokedex. And I'm from the West and I don't know a single person who plays smash who doesn't know gen 1 Pokemon.

I feel like that's something that gets lost. It's not important what characters people that aren't buying smash recognize. They aren't the target market.

As for Chrom, I can understand that. But knowing him as the blue haired guy doesn't really mean they know him either lol.

Well the Pokemon example was just a tangential analogy to how people may know Chrom but not Robin, I wasn't referring to its relationship within Smash. I also brought up Overwatch, and I've no expectations for that to be part of Smash any time soon. It was in reference to the prior comparison.

But for what it's worth, I do know people who own Smash who could probably name no more than a half-dozen Pokemon, though I'll agree that isn't indicative of the majority. Though that wasn't my point.

 

[Onua]

When it comes to Fossil Fighters moveset I feel the best bet is he'd use his pickaxe for most of his moves. I could see him using the hammer or drill in some other moves tho. Like mostly pickaxe but like upair is a drill or something.
I imagine the special moves could all be vivosaur based and work like summons.
Downtilt could be like villagers but he pulls a fossil rock out of the ground.

 

[Freduardo]

So a lot of folks seem to take ARMs out of the running for being in development too late.

But what about as an assist trophy? And if there was one, which character would you see as likely?

I think Helix or Byte and Barq could be interesting.

 

[ShadowYoshi04]

When it comes to Fossil Fighters moveset I feel the best bet is he'd use his pickaxe for most of his moves. I could see him using the hammer or drill in some other moves tho. Like mostly pickaxe but like upair is a drill or something.
I imagine the special moves could all be vivosaur based and work like summons.
Downtilt could be like villagers but he pulls a fossil rock out of the ground.

Great idea, I’d love to see a Fossil Fighters Character.

 

[Onua]

Great idea, I’d love to see a Fossil Fighters Character.

Fossil Fighter is easily my most wanted for this game and I find him to be a very realistic candidate.
Getting nervous as E3 crawls ever closer.
I just want more info soon

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I think if all Arms gets is an assist trophy? It'd be Spring Man still.

It'd make little sense to have anyone else represent the series even as an assist trophy if nothing else from the series gets in.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

How many Smashes until all 151 original Pokemon have been in the game one way or another?

147 (if you count 3DS/Wii U as a package. If not, then 146)

 

[Hinata]

Fossil Fighter is easily my most wanted for this game and I find him to be a very realistic candidate.

I don't understand your logic. What is your basis for thinking Fossil Fighter is a "very realistic" choice?

 

[Pacack]

I don't know what the background is of the argument that Robin was equally as popular as Robin, but I feel like chiming in as someone who was speculating then and who supported Robin before his reveal.

Chrom was absolutely more well-known than Robin. While people talked about the Avatar, it wasn't as widely recognized at the time that the character had a personality and potential outside of being a self-insert.

It wasn't until after Robin was included that people listened to me and other supporters who argued that Robin was the true focus of Awakening's story.

While it was recognized that Robin would be interesting as a magic user, few people thought they were a possibility at the time.

 

[monadoboy]

Little Mac, then. The last Punch-Out!! came out not even a full year after Super Sluggers on the Wii.

Xeno also isn't really a new IP. The first one was Xenogears in 1998.

Absolutely nobody thought Shulk was likely but he got in, I don't see why anyone had any reason to think incredibly popular characters that missed one title couldn't happen.

Not to be "that guy" but I was 1000% sure that Shulk would get in. Monolith Soft was Nintendo's new toy at the time, and they even worked in Brawl. Monolith Soft is also a link between Nintendo and Namco, who worked in Smash 4. Namco saw the sale as a way to strengthen their relationship with Ninty. If anything, Shulk was the most obvious choice, and I adamantly said so in my old tumblr blog. Sadly, I deleted my main account and all my other blogs went with it.

He had everything going for him. Relevancy, new IP, moveset potential, underrepresented genre, etc, etc. I don't know if it was bias, but I could've bet my life on Shulk making it in. I spent an unholy amount of time with "Shulk for Smash" stuff. It's the reason I joined this site. Seeing the leak was, in a way, incredibly gratifying. So many dismissed Shulk in favor of the same picks that never make it in, but we saw what happened in the end.
I even predicted (albeit jokingly) his alt costume 10 days before the reveal:

Spoiler

Sorry for this, but it just seems weird people treating Shulk as a surprise newcomer when, in my opinion, he was the most obvious of picks.
And the whole "Xeno" thing is...complicated. It was actually Iwata who came up with the Xenoblade name, the game was going to be "Monado: Beginning of the World" but he thought it would be best to honor the Takahashi's old games. Amazon still has the listing for M:BotW with a bunch of beta images.

That aside, I think Elma AND Rex is likelier than people think, and so is Fiora (either one, I'm not saying there's going to be four XB characters, as much as I'd love that). Did the Hyrule guy that had a "source" on the E3 show floor ever got disproved or anything? If not, then I still think their source confused the Monado with the Aegis sword, or something big related to Xenoblade is happening.

 

[viewtifulduck82]

Dont really understand how people can be so adamant about rex and pyra getting in, but yet also think spring man doesnt have the same chance if not more of a chance. They're in pretty much the same boat

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

I’m going to ask a very controversial question...

How would you guys react if instead of getting a newcomer for the Zelda franchise, Link, Zelda, and/or Ganondorf’s moveset gets revamped. Not completely, but enough to make a significant difference?

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I’m going to ask a very controversial question...

How would you guys react if instead of getting a newcomer for the Zelda franchise, Link, Zelda, and/or Ganondorf’s moveset gets revamped. Not completely, but enough to make a significant difference?

May have to do with me not having any ties with The Legend of Zelda, but I'd have no qualms with it.

I never found any of the Zelda characters in Smash fun anyway, aside from maybe Zelda.

 

[Pacack]

I’m going to ask a very controversial question...

How would you guys react if instead of getting a newcomer for the Zelda franchise, Link, Zelda, and/or Ganondorf’s moveset gets revamped. Not completely, but enough to make a significant difference?

If it was for a warlock-style Ganondorf or a competent Zelda, I'd be all for it. However, I don't think Link needs a dramatic change.

That aside, I think Elma AND Rex is likelier than people think, and so is Fiora (either one, I'm not saying there's going to be four XB characters, as much as I'd love that). Did the Hyrule guy that had a "source" on the E3 show floor ever got disproved or anything? If not, then I still think their source confused the Monado with the Aegis sword, or something big related to Xenoblade is happening.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that Elma has a better chance for base roster, but that Rex (and Spring Man) is basically a given for DLC regardless of whether or not she makes it.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Playing Sonic Battle rn and Tails and Shadow are incredibly fun
A moveset taking inspiration from Battle is definitely needed

 

[Deathcarter]

Dont really understand how people can be so adamant about rex and pyra getting in, but yet also think spring man doesnt have the same chance if not more of a chance. They're in pretty much the same boat

Precedent mainly. We've know of multiple previous instances of Sakurai planning to include a new character from an upcoming game in a prior established RPG franchise in advanced with Lucas in Melee and Greninja in Smash 4 and in the case of Greninja, a successful inclusion. Plus Sakurai has commented on how he makes it a point of trying to be current with the Fire Emblem characters (his "6 months too early" comment on Robin, expressing regret for not having Marth or Ike's most recent designs back in Brawl).

With Spring Man, we haven't had an instance of a new IP launch title for brand new hardware (Pikmin, Wii Sports, Nintendoland) being represented in Smash with a character so some folks think he has less of a chance than Re. Of course what everyone forgets is that Sakurai himself stated that he considered Miis back in Brawl but passed over them for not having potential as a fighter, not for being too new. Sakurai's own statement on Miis means that Spring Man can still be under consideration.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

May have to do with me not having any ties with The Legend of Zelda, but I'd have no qualms with it.

I never found any of the Zelda characters in Smash fun anyway, aside from maybe Zelda.

I know Zelda is popular, but I just feel like it’s represented well, and doesn’t really need a newcomer. That’s a controversial opinion, but...yeah. The only one I could see that’d make logical sense is Impa.

If it was for a warlock-style Ganondorf or a competent Zelda, I'd be all for it. However, I don't think Link needs a dramatic change.

I think it’s pretty widespread that people want Ganondorf’s moveset changed. With Link, I don’t think he’ll be changed drastically, but I do think he’ll have changes made to represent his Breath of the Wild iteration, and that it’ll be more than just an aesthetic change.

 

[Deleted member]

I think if all Arms gets is an assist trophy? It'd be Spring Man still.

It'd make little sense to have anyone else represent the series even as an assist trophy if nothing else from the series gets in.

But what if Spring Man is a character? Than someone else would have to be the Assist Trophy.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

But what if Spring Man is a character? Than someone else would have to be the Assist Trophy.

I am a firm believer that we’ll get an ARMS rep, and that it’ll most likely be Spring Man. I also wouldn’t be surprised if Ribbon Girl is an alt, but I’m not expecting it.

As for an Assist Trophy, I think Min Min or Ninjara are the most likely candidates.

 

[Retroend]

what i read today: discussing the ballot and talking about elma and rex making it in.

i wouldn't be surprised if elma got in though.

 

[Koopaul]

Many of us thought the Inklings would be a shoe-in for DLC on the Wii U and we were wrong. All we got was a costume and some trophies.

So I'm still not certain about the fate of Spring Man or Rex.

I also wouldn’t be surprised if Ribbon Girl is an alt, but I’m not expecting it.

I would be very surprised and angry. Given how different Spring Man and Ribbon Girl play and move in ARMS, it would be a big disservice to her character if she animated exactly how Spring Man did.

 

[viewtifulduck82]

Anyone that has actually played arms will tell you it makes no sense to make ribbon girl an alt. If anything, springtron would be the alt. If he got included, he'd probably be a clone character seeing as he's canonically a slower heavier version of springman.

Ribbon girl herself has 5 jumps, something that isnt a foreign concept in smash. If she got in, she'd have to her main attribute carry over.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

If there's Arms character id love Dr Coyle

Damn good design

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Many of us thought the Inklings would be a shoe-in for DLC on the Wii U and we were wrong. All we got was a costume and some trophies.

So I'm still not certain about the fate of Spring Man or Rex.


I would be very surprised and angry. Given how different Spring Man and Ribbon Girl play and move in ARMS, it would be a big disservice to her character if she animated exactly how Spring Man did.

That is true, but I guess we’ll see. (In regards to Spring Man and Rex.)

And yeah, I know they play differently, but for the sake of representation of both of the poster children of ARMS some liberties could be taken.