Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[mario123007]

"They would NEVER cut a very popular character" they say as they completely forgot the detail of Mewtwo of all characters being cut in Brawl and failing to appear in the initial roster for Wii U/3DS.

I personally just hope that the "tradition" of cutting characters in every Smash Bros game since brawl will stop on Smash Bros Switch...

I am still pretty salty that we still have characters like Wolf and Ice Climbers being MIA for years...

I wonder if FE is as controversial is Japan as here..

Controversial about..... what? LOL.

If you are talking about their position in Smash... well... Japanese aren't surprised that FE got that much characters, hell, they will definitely want more.
And also they will be thrilled if they have popular anime characters like those from Kemono Friends in Smash...
Or even have Rex, Takamaru, or any JRPG characters from Monster Hunter, Tales of, Etrian Odyssey they will buy it.

 

[DGAMER]

Here is how a Microsoft/Nintendo Deal would probably play out if that rumor is true.

Nintendo gets Banjo in Smash, as well as Goldeneye on Switch.
Microsoft gets Bayonetta 2 port, Mario minecrafts skins on Xbox, and Nintendo character on a new Killer Instinct (My money would be on Link or Samus.)
Both get crossplay on select games (Rocket League, Minecraft, and maybe even the rumored Fornite and COD Battle Royale)

I could see this being a nice trade. Though it would mean the death of any chance of true crossplay across all consoles. It would also mean that Sony will probably refuse to do anything with Nintendo or Microsoft.

 

[ChikoLad]

Oh yeah, I forgot.

Microsoft could absolutely get Bayonetta 2 and 3 on Xbox One. It would have nothing to do with Nintendo.

Nintendo merely published Bayonetta 2 (and now presumably Bayonetta 3) on Wii U/Switch. They don't own the IP in any way.

SEGA, the owner of the IP, need only publish it themselves if they want it on other platforms. Or, get somebody else to, such as Microsoft themselves.

Nintendo could even decide to publish it themselves as an unprecedented move if they really were to partner up with Microsoft in some way, but regardless, Nintendo doesn't hold any power over the IP, at least not in any official capacity.

Case in point:

Another lesser example is Sonic Lost World on Wii U, which was published by SEGA in Japan and America, but published by Nintendo in Europe and Australia. It later saw a Steam release published by SEGA.

 

[Deleted member]

Am I the only one that thinks that a Fallen Male Robin alt for Robin would be cool?
I mean...

This looks so awesome.

@Warchamp7 saved us I think! Thank you so much!
Edit: Sorry for tagging you twice. O_O

 

[Blargg888]

I personally just hope that the "tradition" of cutting characters in every Smash Bros game since brawl will stop on Smash Bros Switch...

I am still pretty salty that we still have characters like Wolf and Ice Climbers being MIA for years...

It's an unfortunate reality, but it's understandable.

As much as I'd love an All-Stars Smash game with every previously cut character and then some, I really doubt that that's ever gonna happen.

Some characters are a product of their time, others come around in the wrong places, sometimes things are unavoidable, and sometimes, sacrifices are just made. Cuts aren't really avoidable at this point, I'd say.

Though I'd love to be wrong on this point.

 

[mario123007]

Oh yeah, I forgot.

Microsoft could absolutely get Bayonetta 2 and 3 on Xbox One. It would have nothing to do with Nintendo.

Nintendo merely published Bayonetta 2 (and now presumably Bayonetta 3) on Wii U/Switch. They don't own the IP in any way.

SEGA, the owner of the IP, need only publish it themselves if they want it on other platforms. Or, get somebody else to, such as Microsoft themselves.

Nintendo could even decide to publish it themselves as an unprecedented move if they really were to partner up with Microsoft in some way, but regardless, Nintendo doesn't hold any power over the IP, at least not in any official capacity.

Case in point:

Another lesser example is Sonic Lost World on Wii U, which was published by SEGA in Japan and America, but published by Nintendo in Europe and Australia. It later saw a Steam release published by SEGA.

I wouldn't be surprised if Bayonetta 3 comes to other platform years after its release. Nevertheless, Bayonetta 3 will still sell the best on Nintendo Switch, because the graphics might not look too different when it ports to Xbone and PS4, and Switch is the only home console that you can play on the go. It's no brainer that people will still most buy the Switch version of Bayonetta 3 suppose it goes multiplat years later.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Microsoft has no bad blood with Nintendo. So there's a possibility. However it seems extremely unlikely. And what would they get out of it in return? Not much. None of the Nintendo properties will end up over on X Box. Even stuff like Bayonetta 2 and 3 is supremely doubtful.

Not much but Goldeneye would probably end up on the Xbox One as well.

There was the whole XBLA remake and Wii VC agreement that Nintendo allegedly pulled out of.

 

[Pazzo.]

Call me crazy, but I think Fire Emblem might take a backseat to other series this game.

Just a hunch.

 

[Gumzilla]

I'm still waiting for people to acknowledge Fossil Fighters' existence.

 

[mario123007]

It's an unfortunate reality, but it's understandable.

As much as I'd love an All-Stars Smash game with every previously cut character and then some, I really doubt that that's ever gonna happen.

Some characters are a product of their time, others come around in the wrong places, sometimes things are unavoidable, and sometimes, sacrifices are just made. Cuts aren't really avoidable at this point, I'd say.

Though I'd love to be wrong on this point.

Also no story mode was my con for Smash 4 already when I first heard about 5 years ago.
That's why I never consider Smash 4 the best Smash Bros.

Call me crazy, but I think Fire Emblem might take a backseat to other series this game.

Just a hunch.

Pretty obvious that you are lol, when you see how well Fire Emblem games are selling, not mention the mobile the game that my Fire Emblem fan brother is still playing once he finishes Xenoblade 2...

He's really just a "Playing for the plot guy" when it comes to Xenoblade...

I think series that "should" take a back seat for this game are...
- Mario series
- Zelda series
- Wii Fit series
- Pokemon series

Basically any series that has over 3 to 4 characters ever since Brawl... should really stop having newcomers in my opinion...
In order to let Smash Switch stay appealing to all gamers, it should introduce more potential IPs like how they did with Fire Emblem and Xenoblade, they already did a bit by having Inkling in Smash, so... we need more of these.

 

[Blargg888]

Out of curiosity, what's everyone's opinions on character buffs for the next Smash?

I know most people want Jiggs to finally get a buff, but what about other characters?

Personally, I'm hoping that Shulk, WFT, and Mr. Game & Watch get buffed.

I don't even play WFT, I just think she needs it.

Call me crazy

Ok. Hi Crazy, I'm Blargg.

 

[Llort A. Ton]

Goldeneye on Switch with online, more than 4 players, possibly remade graphics, a framrate that is actually stable when playing with 4 people, and modern controls AND Banjo in Smash sounds too good to be true... make it happen please

As for buffs... I need my boys G&W and Dr Mario to return totheir former glory. Dedede buff would be cool too.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Shulk and Palutena need some buffs. I like Zelda's moveset as is honestly, but it needs a major rework (cooldown, sweetspots, her overall physics as a character, etc.).

 

[ChikoLad]

I want Marth to move a little faster and have a little less end lag on some moves.

He's supposed to be the fast FE character but doesn't quite feel like it outside of Melee.

 

[Rycin]

BUFF THE PUFF.
She is the one character that needs a buff the most.

(Also Ganondorf)

 

[Roberk]

The next Fire Emblem character is going to be Arvis or Leif because the devs begged Sakurai to let them try to pressure IS into a Fire Emblem 4/5 hd remake on Switch through fan demand.

Leif in Smash would be a meme come true. Arvis too le Sirgurd burning lol!., but he seems much less likely as he isn't a lord or an avatar.

IMO just an HD remake of the Jugdral games packaged together wouldn't work. I'd expect more of a "reimagining" like Echoes. This way they could take some creative liberties to make a singular game of both 4/5 work well.

 

[Danpal65]

Out of curiosity, what's everyone's opinions on character buffs for the next Smash?

I know most people want Jiggs to finally get a buff, but what about other characters?

Personally, I'm hoping that Shulk, WFT, and Mr. Game & Watch get buffed.

I don't even play WFT, I just think she needs it.


Ok. Hi Crazy, I'm Blargg.

All I know is that Sakurai better nerf Greninja

 

[Pazzo.]

Out of curiosity, what's everyone's opinions on character buffs for the next Smash?

I know most people want Jiggs to finally get a buff, but what about other characters?

Personally, I'm hoping that Shulk, WFT, and Mr. Game & Watch get buffed.

I don't even play WFT, I just think she needs it.


Ok. Hi Crazy, I'm Blargg.

< That's my name.

I want WFT buffs, G&W buffs, and especially Little Mac buffs.

Make it so WFT gets more off her attacks, G&W has less lag, and for the love of God someone get Little Mac to train with Falco or something. He needs more options in the air, where 60% of Smash happens.

 

[viewtifulduck82]

Have there been any more e3 leaks since the MOH thing?

 

[Murlough]

Out of curiosity, what's everyone's opinions on character buffs for the next Smash?

I know most people want Jiggs to finally get a buff, but what about other characters?

Personally, I'm hoping that Shulk, WFT, and Mr. Game & Watch get buffed.

I don't even play WFT, I just think she needs it.


Ok. Hi Crazy, I'm Blargg.

Jigglypuff:

• Give Jiggs her disjointed back air back. If Diddy gets double the range on his fair then so should Jiggs.

• Buff her airspeed a tad. Make her uptilt more like Kirby's.

• Falling upair -> uptilt -> Rest is a kill confirm.
• Some may say that would be a bit much but for the price of having no reliable specials other than rest, a pretty mundane recovery especially considering footstool stuff, and the lightest character in the game I say its what she needs. Besides falling upair is still a pain to land.
• Make one of her throws kill at a maximum of 150%. Preferably upthrow.
• Make Sing and Rollout cancelable like Sonic's side special.

Wii Fit:

• Remake Wii Fits Bair and Uptilt.
• Make downtilt a safe option against shields if spaced properly.
• Make her soccer ball....less terrible.
• Her moves should link into each other better for the low damage she has and the clunkiness of her kit.

Palutena:

• Remake her an ftilt and maybe uptilt, give her fair more knockback growth and make backair autocancelable.
• A slight buff to her airspeed would be fantastic.
• Her smashes are pretty weak as they are, I'd make the hitbox of upsmash and side smash consistent but lower the base knockback a tad. Downsmash is probably fine for what it is...maybe make it less slow? I dunno.
• Autoreticle should lock on much easier than it does. Maybe make it to where she still shoots three projectiles but each locks on seperately so depending on how the opponent moves the projectiles would cover more space.
• Her reflect is fine. Counter needs buffs but does its job. Her warp is solid.
• Make dash attack safe on block if spaced properly and cut off a few frames of endlag on it. Her dash could be really good but its too much of a commitment.

Luigi:

• Make Luigi's nair frame 5. Compensate by giving fireballs a slight range boost. (Totally not based on salt)

Zelda/Link:

• Someone on here said that they should implement Toon Zelda so the original movesets can live on in Toon Link and Toon Zelda while the other two get their Breath of the Wild reworks and while I'm not too fond of adding a Toon Zelda...I really would like Zelda to get reworked completely. Plus that way those who like Zelda's current kit still get something.

Roy:

• His sourspots need more damage and knockback so he can actually hit shields and not be punished for pressing a button. To compensate he should probably lose a bit of damage and knockback on his sweatspots. Obviously, they shouldn't remove his gimmick but they should standardize his sword somewhat.
• Make Roy a bit faster in the air and buff his recovery. Every time I see Corrin recover I'm jealous. Give Roy a slight buff in range, let him recover as low as Falcon can.
• Make Jab and Ftilt safe on block and make double-edged blade more reliable.

This post is just some of my ideas. They very well could be terrible, I'm not a game designer nor expert on fighting game balance. I'm also not trying to make the characters top tier, just trying to give them some quality of life adjustments to make them playable against the rest of the cast without losing their identity in the process (except Zelda she's been terrible too long).

I want Marth to move a little faster and have a little less end lag on some moves.

He's supposed to be the fast FE character but doesn't quite feel like it outside of Melee.

But he a top tier/high tier doe.

 

[Zippo]

Oh yeah, I forgot.

Microsoft could absolutely get Bayonetta 2 and 3 on Xbox One. It would have nothing to do with Nintendo.

Nintendo merely published Bayonetta 2 (and now presumably Bayonetta 3) on Wii U/Switch. They don't own the IP in any way.

SEGA, the owner of the IP, need only publish it themselves if they want it on other platforms. Or, get somebody else to, such as Microsoft themselves.

Nintendo could even decide to publish it themselves as an unprecedented move if they really were to partner up with Microsoft in some way, but regardless, Nintendo doesn't hold any power over the IP, at least not in any official capacity.

Case in point:

Another lesser example is Sonic Lost World on Wii U, which was published by SEGA in Japan and America, but published by Nintendo in Europe and Australia. It later saw a Steam release published by SEGA.

This is not even romotely true. Nintendo funded and owns the publishing rights to Bayonetta 2 and 3, not SEGA nor Platinum. Kamiya has said this time and again. Platinum doesn't even own the IP. Bayonetta 2 and 3 could only get ported to other consoles if Nintendo gave them the go ahead, and I don't see that happening any time soon.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Robin is the only mage representing a series with prominent magic usage.

He's not going anywhere.

Robin is the only Fire Emblem fighter without a Counter move, and his/her tomes are a unique mechanic as well.

 

[Bowserlick]

Give buffs to the lowest-ranked characters and nerf the top ten. While buffing and nerfing, try to keep their playstyle intact. Some characters have too many tools and can mask any weakness, while other characters do not have the movement options or strong enough functioning attacks/specials to accomplish their way of delivering pain.

 

[-crump-]

Out of curiosity, what's everyone's opinions on character buffs for the next Smash?

I know most people want Jiggs to finally get a buff, but what about other characters?

Personally, I'm hoping that Shulk, WFT, and Mr. Game & Watch get buffed.

I don't even play WFT, I just think she needs it.

I play WFT, and I can confirm. My girl needs help.

Beyond that, I would say Bowser Jr and King Dedede are both in serious need of buffs. Who’s bright idea was it to give Dedede such terrible airspeed on top of his sucky recovery?

 

[ChikoLad]

This is not even romotely true. Nintendo funded and owns the publishing rights to Bayonetta 2 and 3, not SEGA nor Platinum. Kamiya has said this time and again. Platinum doesn't even own the IP. Bayonetta 2 and 3 could only get ported to other consoles if Nintendo gave them the go ahead, and I don't see that happening any time soon.

Publishing and funding are literally the same thing.

Also, publishing rights are always temporary when not owned by the IP holder.

But he a top tier/high

I don't care about the competitive merit of the character, I just think as a character who is often touted as the fast character of the FE characters, his overall game feel is sluggish in all games after Melee.

 

[Murlough]

Publishing and funding are literally the same thing.

Also, publishing rights are always temporary when not owned by the IP holder.



I don't care about the competitive merit of the character, I just think as a character who is often touted as the fast character of the FE characters, his overall game feel is sluggish in all games after Melee.

I mean I get where you're coming from. But legit every character probably feels sluggish compared to Melee. Compared to the rest of the cast, Marth is pretty fast.

 

[Kotor]

The next Fire Emblem character is going to be Arvis or Leif because the devs begged Sakurai to let them try to pressure IS into a Fire Emblem 4/5 hd remake on Switch through fan demand.

I actually would not be opposed to Arvis. He's one of my favorite units in Heroes.

 

[BlondeLombax]

While we're on the topic of Fire Emblem, I have a question: how could Lucina be Luigified?

Personally, I could see a few new battle stances and standard attack animations, a new side-special (I.E. the Sonic-like spin attack she used when she fought Chrom as Marth (which may or may not be their form of Aether)) and a new Final Smash where she becomes a Great Lord and the Falchion transforms into the Exalted Falchion. What would you guys add?

 

[Roberk]

While we're on the topic of Fire Emblem, I have a question: how could Lucina be Luigified?

Personally, I could see a few new battle stances and standard attack animations, a new side-special (I.E. the Sonic-like spin attack she used when she fought Chrom as Marth (which may or may not be their form of Aether)) and a new Final Smash where she becomes a Great Lord and the Falchion transforms into the Exalted Falchion. What would you guys add?

I was actually thinking of making Lucina's up special that spin thing since it's like Aether. Have it function like Aether in Smash yet give it more horizontal movement and keep Lucina spinning downwards. Maybe have her take out Geirskogal from her Brave/CYl alt in Heroes for her side tilts and specials. Basically just implement more of her moves found in Warriors and alternate forms/weapons (that are realizable, sorry no easter eggs) from Heroes.

 

[Murlough]

While we're on the topic of Fire Emblem, I have a question: how could Lucina be Luigified?

Personally, I could see a few new battle stances and standard attack animations, a new side-special (I.E. the Sonic-like spin attack she used when she fought Chrom as Marth (which may or may not be their form of Aether)) and a new Final Smash where she becomes a Great Lord and the Falchion transforms into the Exalted Falchion. What would you guys add?

Look up Fire Emblem Heroes Brave Lucina. I'd say go all out with a Roy style revamp if they really want to luigify her.

 

[Troykv]

While we're on the topic of Fire Emblem, I have a question: how could Lucina be Luigified?

Personally, I could see a few new battle stances and standard attack animations, a new side-special (I.E. the Sonic-like spin attack she used when she fought Chrom as Marth (which may or may not be their form of Aether)) and a new Final Smash where she becomes a Great Lord and the Falchion transforms into the Exalted Falchion. What would you guys add?

I'm completely sure of two things...

One, this would be her stance (or something similar)

Two, some of Lucina's moves would resemble this cutscene (and the Lucina's basic animations in-game).

 

[mario123007]

While we're on the topic of Fire Emblem, I have a question: how could Lucina be Luigified?

Personally, I could see a few new battle stances and standard attack animations, a new side-special (I.E. the Sonic-like spin attack she used when she fought Chrom as Marth (which may or may not be their form of Aether)) and a new Final Smash where she becomes a Great Lord and the Falchion transforms into the Exalted Falchion. What would you guys add?

A new final Smash.... Like how Luigi did.

 

[Blargg888]

While we're on the topic of Fire Emblem, I have a question: how could Lucina be Luigified?

Change her side-b into one where Lucina launches herself forward and deals a fiery strike with the Exalted Falchion. The move has a chance of 'critting' and dealing extra damage and distance to the opponent.

A new up-b that deals a fiery blow with the Exalted Falchion, but only at close range. The move goes straight up, and acts as Lucina's recovery move.

Lucina's new down B is a spin attack that causes her to rise if you mash B. It's good for killing people off the top and gimping people at the edge.

Lucina's new Nair will be a sex-kick that deals 12% damage and sends the opponent upward vertically.

Lucina's new final smash sucks all opponents into the convoy, then spits them out, sending them into the sky.

I play WFT, and I can confirm. My girl needs help.

Beyond that, I would say Bowser Jr and King Dedede are both in serious need of buffs. Who’s bright idea was it to give Dedede such terrible airspeed on top of his sucky recovery?

Yeah, I definitely think that Bowser Jr. needs a better recovery that re-spawns the Clown Car upon being hit by a small attack, because otherwise his recovery is a bit flawed.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Have there been any more e3 leaks since the MOH thing?

A painfully fake one from /v/.

When 4Chan always had mostly fake text leaks.

 

[Roberk]

A painfully fake one from /v/.

When 4Chan always had mostly fake text leaks.

4Chan can give you complete, utter trash and huge confirmed leaks. You never quite know with that place.

 

[Opossum]

4Chan can give you complete, utter trash and huge confirmed leaks. You never quite know with that place.

It's funny that 4chan is synonymous with fake leaks, meanwhile actual leaks for things like the January 2017 Switch presentation came from a 4chan text leak.

 

[Pazzo.]

I wonder what Sakurai would think if he ever got a hold of these pages of speculation.

Would he *laugh*? Or *weep*?

We may never know.

 

[blackghost]

So, I keep seeing this kind of argument and its peeving the heck out of me.

ROY DOES NOT PLAY ANYTHING LIKE MARTH. Roy can't even be argued to be a Marth Clone in 4. Calling him a clone is like calling Luigi a clone of Mario despite the two playing completely differently. Please stop with the "Roy doesn't deserve to be in 5 because hes just a clone of Marth," crap.

Marth is a character (with a swurrrddd) who uses his large disjoints to keep the opposing player out of range to deal damage and to eventually zone them out.

Roy can't do Marth's job. Plain and simple. His hitboxes will not let him play the safe keep away style Marth is known for. They have opposite "tippers" and none of their moves even look alike other than counter, side special, and d-tilt. (Maybe upair and upsmash but they work completely differently so I'm not counting it)

Not wanting Roy to come back is a fine opinion, but Roy is almost as unique as Corrin at this point when comparing him to Marth. "Roy is just another Marth clone," is not a valid argument for him to be excluded, its just laziness or ignorance as to how the character works.

Not trying to call anybody out specifically, the argument itself is just obnoxious and wrong. Like ok guys well Lucas, Falco, and Luigi shouldn't be included because they are just clones of their counterpart. Nobody says that, except maybe Lucas but those people are wrong too. Also I'm aware the guy I quoted said "semi-clone," well they also said "that being said, corrin is fun and COMPLETELY unique," as opposed to Roy.

hitboxes and playstyle are what we see. as comeititve players what casual (read most) of the playerbase sees is an imitation of another character.
i've had this conversation several times at parties:
"Hey man you know this game right?"
"which of the sword users is good? The fire guy?"
"not really he's a lesser version of the blue haired one.
or just pick cloud"
ascetics matter. honestly roy mechanics are off putting and do not work well. His time as a relevant fire emblem character is long past. Luigi is not in a similar situation as roy. nor is falco or any other semi-clone. Roy is a semi clone in a crowded space of a niche franchise, who's not truly relevant to that series history among fans, or historical relvance in game canon.

competitive smash has never been the focus. characters with variety in animations, weapons, and obvious play differences are the prority (look at every newcomer in 4). If this was street fighter you can have characters that have the same/similair moveset (shotos) but becuase that game is about hardcore fgc first that is seen as a good thing in smash roy doesn't get the same liberty. How those moves behave has been less important than how it looks. Lucas absorber and pk thunder LOOK and BEHAVE differently from ness. Luigi has a very different moveset to mario he can barely even be called a clone in 4.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Heard some people talking about Microsoft and Nintendo doing a surprise team up this year at E3 and perhaps having some crossover games. Banjo in Smash, Goldeneye on Switch, ect. This could be true. Xbox is probably willing to make hard deals to hurt sony now. 🤔🤔🤔

— DreamcastGuy has moved to BlueSky (@DreamcastGuy) April 30, 2018

Nintendo's E3 is already looking to be potentially phenomenal (Smash Bros., Prime 4, Fire Emblem, Bayonetta, Retro's new title, possibly Pokemon, Wave Race, Punch Out, Pikmin 4) but this **** right here would send me through the roof if it was somehow true.

I will keep my eyes on this. It could be huge or a massive prank from Dreamcastguy for all we know.

That would make a legendary E3 event for both.

 

[Gumzilla]

Who else is disappointed that Mimikyu sounds like they're trying to say "Pikachu" in the main games but he doesn't in everything else?