Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MrReyes96]

If it helps, Warchamp7 got tagged already. Hopefully it's fixed soon.

That said, Pauline, I feel, would be more interesting if focused on objects from Donkey Kong (Arcade) and Mario VS Donkey Kong.

Have her use Bowser Jr’s side special with mini Mario’s instead and the occasional mini DK as a stronger random variation

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Roy and Lucina are very popular and extremely easy to make, I will be absolutely shocked if they get cut, especially since roy was JUST brought back. If sakurai is worried about having too many fe characters I think just not getting a newcomer and keeping the ones we have is far more likely.

Corrin was also JUST added and he's unique, and still fairly relevant. I'll be shocked if he's cut too

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Roy and Lucina are very popular and extremely easy to make, I will be absolutely shocked if they get cut, especially since roy was JUST brought back. If sakurai is worried about having too many fe characters I think just not getting a newcomer and keeping the ones we have is far more likely.

Corrin was also JUST added and he's unique, and still fairly relevant. I'll be shocked if he's cut too

I still think they are gonna add Celica now that Fire Emblem Gaiden has been remade and she appeared in Fire Emblem Warriors. But, that was after 2016 so who knows.

It would certainly be strange not to have a Fire Emblem newcomer, but it would be no big loss.

 

[DJ3DS]

Honestly there's a situation that I think is particularly overlooked here: Lucina could stay, and Marth gets cut.

Why?

Firstly, it is my understanding (and anyone who cares about the series feel free to correct me) that Lucina is a more popular character, on top of being more relevant.

Secondly, this isn't that outlandish or unprecedented an idea. We've heard there were internal discussions for removing Ness in favour of Lucas, for example.

 

[FlareHabanero]

"They would NEVER cut a very popular character" they say as they completely forgot the detail of Mewtwo of all characters being cut in Brawl and failing to appear in the initial roster for Wii U/3DS.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

"They would NEVER cut a very popular character" they say as they completely forgot the detail of Mewtwo of all characters being cut in Brawl and failing to appear in the initial roster for Wii U/3DS.

There's always a reason why a character "CAN'T" be cut.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Marth is pretty much the staple of the FE series. The only way he could get is if an entire series reboot happens. He's set in stone much like most of the Original 12(Jigglypuff is somewhat arguable at this point, but even then).

 

[Cosmic77]

I'm sure this idea has been proposed many times before, but I REALLY want this music to play when there's one minute left in a timed match on the Splatoon stage.

They did it in MK8D, and I'd love to see it implemented in Smash too.

 

[Antimatter042]

How likely is it that we get New Donk City as a stage?

New Donk City is pretty likely as an Odyssey stage. Personally I'm not a huge fan of the Metro Kingdom because I don't care for the realistically proportioned humans and the city is too grey, it's not bad but one of my least favourites aside from Cap Kingdom, which is the only one I dislike. I'd much rather Steam Gardens, Fossil Falls or the best Bowser's Castle rendition in the entire series for an Odyssey stage, though Bowser's Castle is long overdue anyway so that plus Steam Gardens isn't unreasonable.

 

[-crump-]

Honestly there's a situation that I think is particularly overlooked here: Lucina could stay, and Marth gets cut.

Why?

Firstly, it is my understanding (and anyone who cares about the series feel free to correct me) that Lucina is a more popular character, on top of being more relevant.

Secondly, this isn't that outlandish or unprecedented an idea. We've heard there were internal discussions for removing Ness in favour of Lucas, for example.

If Marth was cut there would be hell to pay.

For most people outside of the FE community (and many people inside it), Marth is to FE as Mario is to... Super Mario. He introduced people to the franchise, be that through Melee in the west, or FE1/FE3 in Japan. Lucina has enjoyed her more -than-fair share of love from IS, but I don't think they'll ever push her over the man that started it all.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Part of Odyssey is about traveling to new locations and vistas so the Odyssey Ship will probably be a stage that does jus that.

 

[Alice Margatroid]

We already know Marth isn't getting cut because we identified his silhouette in the trailer.

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

I say forget the "FE is overrepped" crowd and keep all 6 characters and add in a newcomer whether Celica, Lyn, or the FE16 lord. But if I someone had to go I would opt for Roy.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I still think they are gonna add Celica now that Fire Emblem Gaiden has been remade and she appeared in Fire Emblem Warriors. But, that was after 2016 so who knows.

It would certainly be strange not to have a Fire Emblem newcomer, but it would be no big loss.

I don't see it, mostly cause of robin. Both magic users with swords, there's not much in the way of a unique moveset there from what I know

 

[FlareHabanero]

There's always a reason why a character "CAN'T" be cut.

I'm just saying that with the "can't be cut" thing that it's not all black and white. Like with Mewtwo, it's no secret that Mewtwo is a fan favorite from an extremely popular franchise, yet was still a low priority character anyway. Which hints that popularity isn't always a guarantee thing when it comes to what gets top billing.

 

[Murlough]

i like corrin. SHE is a fun character with unique traits and a different playstyle.
i also see it as hypocrisy that smash fans begged for a semi clone in roy and then complain that fire emblem is overrepresented.
Corrin is fun and completely unique.

So, I keep seeing this kind of argument and its peeving the heck out of me.

ROY DOES NOT PLAY ANYTHING LIKE MARTH. Roy can't even be argued to be a Marth Clone in 4. Calling him a clone is like calling Luigi a clone of Mario despite the two playing completely differently. Please stop with the "Roy doesn't deserve to be in 5 because hes just a clone of Marth," crap.

Marth is a character (with a swurrrddd) who uses his large disjoints to keep the opposing player out of range to deal damage and to eventually zone them out.

Roy can't do Marth's job. Plain and simple. His hitboxes will not let him play the safe keep away style Marth is known for. They have opposite "tippers" and none of their moves even look alike other than counter, side special, and d-tilt. (Maybe upair and upsmash but they work completely differently so I'm not counting it)

Not wanting Roy to come back is a fine opinion, but Roy is almost as unique as Corrin at this point when comparing him to Marth. "Roy is just another Marth clone," is not a valid argument for him to be excluded, its just laziness or ignorance as to how the character works.

Not trying to call anybody out specifically, the argument itself is just obnoxious and wrong. Like ok guys well Lucas, Falco, and Luigi shouldn't be included because they are just clones of their counterpart. Nobody says that, except maybe Lucas but those people are wrong too. Also I'm aware the guy I quoted said "semi-clone," well they also said "that being said, corrin is fun and COMPLETELY unique," as opposed to Roy.

Corrin is a better addition than Roy or Lucina based on unique moveset alone

bruuuuhh.

No other character in any game plays like Roy does in Smash 4. He is not in the same tier as Lucina when it comes to being a clone. It isn't even close.

Not that I disagree Corrin should stay in my opinion. Once a smash character, always a smash character. 'cept Cloud ;-;

also not actually a raging fanboy even though I prob look like it.

 

[Antimatter042]

Honestly there's a situation that I think is particularly overlooked here: Lucina could stay, and Marth gets cut.

Why?

Firstly, it is my understanding (and anyone who cares about the series feel free to correct me) that Lucina is a more popular character, on top of being more relevant.

Secondly, this isn't that outlandish or unprecedented an idea. We've heard there were internal discussions for removing Ness in favour of Lucas, for example.

Marth is Fire Emblem's mascot, the guy who both started the series and spearheaded it into the West with Melee (along with Roy). In terms of modern Nintendo, he's more important than all but a handful of characters in the Smash Bros series and has leapfrogged several of the Original 12 in relevance, including Jigglypuff, Ness and arguably Fox and Captain Falcon (who I am absolutely not advocating the removal of). Cutting Marth would start a wildfire within the fanbase, because he's still really popular, particularly among Smash fans.

 

[Cosmic77]

I'm just saying that with the "can't be cut" thing that it's not all black and white. Like with Mewtwo, it's no secret that Mewtwo is a fan favorite from an extremely popular franchise, yet was still a low priority character anyway. Which hints that popularity isn't always a guarantee thing when it comes to what gets top billing.

At the very least, I think people should show more acknowledgement to the possibility of a few characters getting cut in this game. Feels like whenever cuts are brought up, people automatically assume the person brought the topic up because they hate the character and want them gone. "Just because YOU hate the character doesn't mean everyone else does."

Look, I adore both Mewtwo and Lucas, but I'm still preparing myself for a scenario where they get cut just in case. How can I get cocky when they were cut once before? Who's to say it couldn't happen again?

 

[Murlough]

If anyone from FE gets cut I'd expect Robin and Lucina.

People can argue that Robin's mage style is unique but there are popential newcomers who can probably do the style more justice. He's also one of the characters that I completely forget are in the game, and I play daily.

And realistically, if they did remove Robin, would anyone really be bothered? I genuinely don't think so. Very few players seem to care about Robin in smash. Even FE players can be somewhat ok with excluding Robin because Corrin is his reincarnation anyway, and as others have said Corrin is a pretty cool character in Smash.

Its just easier to drop Lucina completely than it is to reimagine a moveset for her and make her unique especially with the FE hate.

I don't think we'll get that many cuts, personally but I would imagine Robin and Lucina are in a more shaky position to the guy who was a Smash fan favorite who returned as Dlc. I just can't see Sakurai doing that to him again.

 

[Troykv]

If anyone from FE gets cut I'd expect Robin and Lucina.

People can argue that Robin's mage style is unique but there are popential newcomers who can probably do the style more justice. He's also one of the characters that I completely forget are in the game, and I play daily.

And realistically, if they did remove Robin, would anyone really be bothered? I genuinely don't think so. Very few players seem to care about Robin in smash. Even FE players can be somewhat ok with excluding Robin because Corrin is his reincarnation anyway, and as others have said Corrin is a pretty cool character in Smash.

Its just easier to drop Lucina completely than it is to reimagine a moveset for her and make her unique especially with the FE hate.

I don't think we'll get that many cuts, personally but I would imagine Robin and Lucina are in a more shaky position to the guy who was a Smash fan favorite who returned as Dlc. I just can't see Sakurai doing that to him again.

I have a hard time imagine cuts pretty much because there are good reasons to maintain pretty much every character in the game xDU

 

[Kotor]

If anyone from FE gets cut I'd expect Robin and Lucina.

People can argue that Robin's mage style is unique but there are popential newcomers who can probably do the style more justice. He's also one of the characters that I completely forget are in the game, and I play daily.

And realistically, if they did remove Robin, would anyone really be bothered? I genuinely don't think so. Very few players seem to care about Robin in smash. Even FE players can be somewhat ok with excluding Robin because Corrin is his reincarnation anyway, and as others have said Corrin is a pretty cool character in Smash.

Its just easier to drop Lucina completely than it is to reimagine a moveset for her and make her unique especially with the FE hate.

I don't think we'll get that many cuts, personally but I would imagine Robin and Lucina are in a more shaky position to the guy who was a Smash fan favorite who returned as Dlc. I just can't see Sakurai doing that to him again.

Of all the FE characters you expect to be cut, you choose Robin?! The FE character whose fighting style is not exclusively swordplay, and whose game saved the franchise from near death? Cutting Robin would be utterly baffling.

The only thing Robin and Corrin share is that they're an avatar in their respective game.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Robin is like the only FE character whose inclusion was not met with significant criticism and he pretty much represents the essence of Fire Emblem. Because of the latter reason, I doubt he is going to be low priority.

At the very least, I think people should show more acknowledgement to the possibility of a few characters getting cut in this game.

Every character added isn't just an addition but a multiplication. That being said, I don't just acknowledge the possibility, I see it as an inevitability.

 

[FlareHabanero]

At the very least, I think people should show more acknowledgement to the possibility of a few characters getting cut in this game. Feels like whenever cuts are brought up, people automatically assume the person brought the topic up because they hate the character and want them gone. "Just because YOU hate the character doesn't mean everyone else does."

Look, I adore both Mewtwo and Lucas, but I'm still preparing myself for a scenario where they get cut just in case. How can I get cocky when they were cut once before? Who's to say it couldn't happen again?

Cuts are going to be unavoidable for various reasons. Can be for technical reasons, can be for copyright reasons. We can at least narrow it down based on common sense. Like with the third parties, it's a very real possibility that due to contracts they may be a one time thing, or the original rights owner may be dissatisfied with the final results and pull back on future appearances, or a restructuring of some type may make getting the character back impossible.

It sucks, but business is still business.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

So who did that E3 display leak all say was coming we didn't know about? Wasn't it Shulk, Bayonetta, and Duck Hunt?

 

[Murlough]

Of all the FE characters you expect to be cut, you choose Robin?! The FE character whose fighting style is not exclusively swordplay, and whose game saved the franchise from near death? Cutting Robin would be utterly baffling.

The only thing Robin and Corrin share is that they're an avatar in their respective game.

Yeah, because Robin is the least interesting of each character both personality wise and gameplay wise. Every Fire Emblem character has a distinct personality that I can find attractive in some way. Even Lucina despite most of her lines making me think she and Shulk have a lot in common. Robin is just this boring, *pushes up glasses* "three steps ahead" slow nerd who has nothing visually interesting to look at or say.

Thats great that he saved FE but in Smash he is boring. Like, remember the hype of Roy's reveal as dlc? Does anyone in this thread think they would feel anywhere near that hyped for Robin if they ended up rereleasing him that way? I sure wouldn't. I'd be sad I'd have to fork over a few extra bucks for some dork I don't want so my local scene will continue to let be bring my console.

Obviously, this is just my opinion. Robin is just kinda there for me.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

So who did that E3 display leak all say was coming we didn't know about? Wasn't it Shulk, Bayonetta, and Duck Hunt?

Yep. Also the Battlefield design and that it's a new game. So far, the new game part is the only one right at this point.

The returning characters aren't really non-obvious, so it doesn't mean much. The actual leaked images are pretty much the only thing going for it other than them finally confirming it's a new game via statements(albeit, loosely confirming it. Technically speaking, it's only soft confirmed).

 

[Edgelord_197]

Can't really see Robin being cut. He pretty much represents the new Fire Emblem and Awakening is really popular.

 

[Freduardo]

I feel like an easy way to declone dark pit would be make his up b the soaring mechanic from Brawl. Pit had a good soaring attack.

 

[ThiagoCavalcanteCarvalho]

I do not think any characters who are or have ever been in the game should be left out. And that's why I think the characters should be carefully chosen.

 

[Pazzo.]

Ike gets cut before Robin, and there's absolutely no reason to cut either.

I doubt Sakurai enjoys cutting characters. I wouldn't expect many cuts for SSB5, even if that means less newcomers than 4.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Ike gets cut before Robin, and there's absolutely no reason to cut either.

Why would Ike get cut before Robin?

 

[Wyoming]

Can't really see Robin being cut. He pretty much represents the new Fire Emblem and Awakening is really popular.

Also has a decent cushion There's three other characters in his series alone that have more arguments to be cut than himself.

 

[YoshiandToad]

To be honest given half the chance I'd just cut Marth and have Ike be the face of the franchise in his place. He's more popular, more fun to play as(IMO) and was an international lord long before Marth's game internationally debuted.

Marth's the first lord, but hey; Ninten was the first Mother character and we got Ness as the face of the series. I know Ninten wasn't in Smash first so not comparable but ehhh...

That said, screw it. Keep all of them and just add Kiran from Heroes. Have him summon all these other Fire Emblem suggestions and have them in a singular character. Overrep the hell out of the series with one character.

 

[Troykv]

Why would Ike get cut before Robin?

I guess because he's a "Blue-Haired Swordsman"?

 

[Blargg888]

And realistically, if they did remove Robin, would anyone really be bothered? I genuinely don't think so.

That's where you're wrong.

Just because you forget a character is in the game, that doesn't make the character automatically worthy of being cut.

By that logic, I should think that Wii Fit Trainer will be cut, but I don't think that at all.
I'm not saying she won't be cut, but I personally don't think so.

Likewise, I'm not saying that Robin absolutely won't be cut, but I feel like if he is, there'd be better reasons than the ones you're giving out.

It's pretty presumptuous to actually think that nobody would be bothered when that's pretty clearly false.

Also, the "Corrin is Robin's reincarnation, so it's fine since they're technically the same character" argument falls really flat when you take into account the fact that not only do they have different personalities and playstyles, but also that two of the same character being in Smash is already a precedent that has been set several times.

Like, remember the hype of Roy's reveal as dlc? Does anyone in this thread think they would feel anywhere near that hyped for Robin if they ended up rereleasing him that way? I sure wouldn't.

Of course you wouldn't, you made it clear that you don't like Robin.
But you're not us, you're you.

Using personal dislike as an argument for why a character should be cut doesn't make any sense, no matter how you try to slice it.

I'm sorry if this sounds hostile, I'm not trying to be. But I'm just a bit tired of hearing other people completely dismiss characters out of personal bias.

 

[Gumzilla]

Do you think we'll get another new character that originated in a fighting game?

 

[Roberk]

Roy: Out of relevance and while he got revamped in Smash 4 he still feels too much based on Marth. This decloning can actually hurt him since it's more dev time sunk into him. Also is now the only Japanese exclusive character in the FE cast which can still alienate players.

Lucina: A clone might not be put into the project outline so she might be revamped or degraded to an alt. In some way, she will be repped.

Corrin: A sour reception combined with the lowest of the DLC sales could really kill Corrin's arguments of relevance, uniqueness, and Fates' immense commercial success.

Robin: A unique movest for both FE fighters and Smash while repping a game that brought FE into another renaissance. Also, a self-insert avatar that while not have much personality is something people are very attached to and is a feature that IS has been pushing in FE games recently.

Ike: No way lol.

Spoiler: CYL 2017

Marth: While he's gotten the short end of the stick in Heroes, Marth is still considered by many the face of the franchise and has become synonymous with the sword fighter moveset in the platform fighter genre as a whole.

Boom, condensed reasons for cuts and keeps for FE fighters. The top is most likely while the bottom is least likely.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Do you think we'll get another new character that originated in a fighting game?

Heihachi Mishima maybe? His FS should be him throwing his opponents off a cliff before crossing his arms and laughing.

 

[New_Dumal]

Honestly there's a situation that I think is particularly overlooked here: Lucina could stay, and Marth gets cut.
Why?
Firstly, it is my understanding (and anyone who cares about the series feel free to correct me) that Lucina is a more popular character, on top of being more relevant.

Secondly, this isn't that outlandish or unprecedented an idea. We've heard there were internal discussions for removing Ness in favour of Lucas, for example.

Back in the pre-Smash4 days I also thought this way, that Marth was not that important to Smash itself, but I changed my mind.
Not only Marth is quite recognizable as a "Smash character" (popular at all iterations), he is also a symbol for Fire Emblem.
While he is not THAT popular in the FE fandom/community (comparing with Ike, Hector, Lyn, Lucina, Camilla), he is a common figurehead. You can check his status in the "Fire Emblem Warriors" game, he is the character at the middle of the cover.
Lucina itself is his grand grand grand daughter and pretends to be him in her game and in Fire Emblem Warriors too.
He is considered the legendary hero ( or hero king) Marth.
Marth has a very very little chance of being removed from Smash Bros. His worst possible situation would be share the same spot as equal to Lucina, merging the characters.

I disliked him a lot back in the day, because his game is not that good and he is not that nice as a lord.
Caeda does all the Lord work, as recruiting. But nowadays I think he is a stylish diva and enjoy his playstyle at Smash.

 

[Pacack]

Robin is the only mage representing a series with prominent magic usage.

He's not going anywhere.