Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[True Blue Warrior]

I do hope the main character of FE16 isn't a sword user.

Corrin: A sour reception combined with the lowest of the DLC sales could really kill Corrin's arguments of relevance, uniqueness, and Fates' immense commercial success.

You know, this has me thinking about how much individual DLC sales could affect priority.

 

[TumblrFamous]

I do hope the main character of FE16 isn't a sword user.



You know, this has me thinking about how much individual DLC sales could affect priority.

Do we have an idea of individual DLC sales? Like who ranks against who?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Robin is the only mage representing a series with prominent magic usage.

He's not going anywhere.

Mewtwo is the only legendary/psychic type.

He's not going anywhere.

 

[Pazzo.]

Why would Ike get cut before Robin?

Exactly.

He wouldn't.

 

[ThiagoCavalcanteCarvalho]

What if we could choose between the current game style and what we have in Melee?

Allow the configuration of two bases of game: Physics and speed of Melee or the current one; It can also be called classic / traditional or current, or even Ground and Air Styles.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I don't see it, mostly cause of robin. Both magic users with swords, there's not much in the way of a unique moveset there from what I know

Once again. From what you know. Celica as a priestess is very different as you can see in Fire Emblem Warriors. There's not an embargo on swords and magic.

 

[Bowserlick]

Pauline's re-design leans on the Roaring 20's as influence. Art Deco skyscrapers dominating New York, jazz establishing itself as the music of the decade and big hats.

Pauline's specials can involve:

• summoning a hanging girder that swings from off screen to rest underneath the spot the button was inputted (the beam hangs for awhile before falling; a cooldown time counts down before another can be summoned)

• using her hat as a spinning Cappy she can jump off of and perhaps landing on opponents to create imprinted Mini's that use their specials or smashes

• summoning a steel barrel with leaping vertical flames that can roll if hit

And her attack moves can be based on 1920's dance moves.

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

As for the usual Fire Emblem debate:
: Can't be cut - Face of FE, yet he doesn't have an alt in FEH and is now approaching Lynface territory lol
: One of the most beloved characters in both Smash and FE - Cutting him would lead to unfathomable fury
: One of the most unique FE characters in Smash and from a very successful game that saved the franchise. I don't see Robin getting cut.
: I definitely have mixed feelings about Corrin - Even though I wanted and got Roy back, I didn't want another FE character. I'd probably axe M!Corrin and make F!Corrin the default character. And fix her bloody down-special - that thing's insane! I'd keep Corrin, but tweak them for balance and popularity reasons.
: Roy's more popular through Smash, but he still has his fans if the CYL 1 Poll's anything to go by. At the very least, Roy's a somewhat safe choice in my book.
: Another fan favourite from FE, but not so much in Smash since she's a clone of Marth without the tipper mechanic Marth has. Personally I'd keep Lucina, but try to de-clone her somewhat so that she's got more to differentiate herself from Marth - either new attack animations based on Awakening, or give her a new weapon like Geirskögul from Heroes. Or an Easter Egg.

Do you think we'll get another new character that originated in a fighting game?

It's pretty unlikely if you ask me, but I could see it happening. Some franchises that come to my mind include Tekken with Jin or Heihachi, Virtua Fighter with Akira, Fatal Fury/King of Fighters with Terry Bogard or Kyo Kusanagi or SoulCalibur getting a character in Nightmare.

I imagine it'd only happen if Ryu were cut or replaced by one of these characters, but I don't see that happening.

 

[Blargg888]

I do hope the main character of FE16 isn't a sword user.

I wouldn't get your hopes up.
The only time that a new FE has ever not had a new swordlord was in Radiant Dawn. And even then, Ike stole the show back anyway.

Ephraim was accompanied by Eirika, and Hector was accompanied by Lyn and Eliwood.

That said, I suppose there's always a chance that they'll try something new.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I cannot stop thinking about Sora being in Smash Bros. Switch. I try to lower my freaking expectations, but my Smash speculation mind feels calm and tells me it will happen and that I do not need to worry. It almost feels like I can reach and see it. It is ****ing scary. If this utter gut feeling is wrong, I swear. Dear lord, E3 cannot come soon enough. I need some kind of confirmation so that my mind can calm down.

 

[Pacack]

Mewtwo is the only legendary/psychic type.

He's not going anywhere.

False equivalence. Magic is about half of Fire Emblem's combat system.

Legendaries, while important, are not as important as that.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Do you guys think Ryu is likely to return?

 

[ThiagoCavalcanteCarvalho]

Customizable, shareable and professional Training Mode

Here I bring a set of thoughts. I started to think about it from Brawl with the creation of scenarios for the game. In the 3DS version we do not have the Smash target system or scenario creation. So I thought: It would be really cool if we could create and share our own challenges with Target Smash, just like it works in Mario Maker. And you do not even have to limit yourself to Target Smash. Several types of challenges could be thought of. This idea evolved and merged with another idea of mine that was a Training Mode for professional players. We could select, for example, what would come out of a Trophy and Poké Ball. In fact this is even basic to me. Why do not we have an option like that for the rules of the game ?! Better ideas would be to see the collision box of a character and Targets that would only break if they were hit by those special blows that use the hallo / star, such as Captain Falcon's knee.

 

[Murlough]

That's where you're wrong.

Just because you forget a character is in the game, that doesn't make the character automatically worthy of being cut.

By that logic, I should think that Wii Fit Trainer will be cut, but I don't think that at all.
I'm not saying she won't be cut, but I personally don't think so.

Likewise, I'm not saying that Robin absolutely won't be cut, but I feel like if he is, there'd be better reasons than the ones you're giving out.

It's pretty presumptuous to actually think that nobody would be bothered when that's pretty clearly false.

Also, the "Corrin is Robin's reincarnation, so it's fine since they're technically the same character" argument falls really flat when you take into account the fact that not only do they have different personalities and playstyles, but also that two of the same character being in Smash is already a precedent that has been set several times.

Of course you wouldn't, you made it clear that you don't like Robin.
But you're not us, you're you.

Using personal dislike as an argument for why a character should be cut doesn't make any sense, no matter how you try to slice it.

I'm sorry if this sounds hostile, I'm not trying to be. But I'm just a bit tired of hearing other people completely dismiss characters out of personal bias.

Ok, I was genuinely just asking because I know my personal feelings on Robin aren't enough for getting him cut, which is why I ****ing asked. People need to stop assuming others are acting high and mighty just to turn around and act high and mighty themselves.

I have no clue how people view Robin, I personally don't like him and I've voiced that opinion to those in my friend group and they agree. So, I asked if anyone here would care and it was NOT obvious until people who posted after I did said they don't want Robin cut.

Literally the first thing you say is false. I didn't say that. (and a mod liked it...ok) "Its pretty presumptous" the **** it is. It isn't presumptious if I really did just ask the question. Your the one "presuming" here. "Clearly false" yeah it wasn't to me until now which is why I innocently asked the question after giving my opinion.

I don't care about the reincarnation bit myself, someone else said it and it makes sense to me so I tacked it on my post. I wasn't making a point with it really.

"Of course you wouldn't, you made it clear that you don't like Robin. But you're not us, you're you." Thank you wiseguy I had no idea that my opinion may not be the same as everyone else's. What nonsense. If I did think something so moronic I may have even put it in my second post, despite the fact that something so obvious as an opinion on the internet should really go without saying in 2018.

I'm not using personal dislike, I don't care either way if Robin is in Smash 5 or not. I was just giving an argument as to why I think Robin makes more sense to cut than Roy. Maybe get some sleep or read over posts carefully before trying to figure out what it is someone is saying. Just because I said "Robin is boring." does not mean I hate the character or don't want them in Smash 5. I'm not bashing anybody,but from my perspective it sure looks like you are.

You sound very hostile and I'm kinda pissed a mod liked it to be honest. I actually had to put effort in to not be hostile myself (which I'm terrible at so bare with at sadly) after you selectively misread everything (and a mod liked it) I said regarding Robin just to make me look like a tool for not liking the character. "You aren't us," yeah ok, thank you I never would have guessed despite every other person saying they disagree with me.

I'm not dismissing the character.

I genuinely was just asking how others viewed Robin, Clearly, my perception was in the minority. I can understand and accept that fact without being told "you are presumptuous and rude for dismissing a character with such bias." I know its bias I gave my opinion, jeez.

In the future maybe when someone says, "would anybody care if *insert character here* was excluded from *insert anything here*" just respond with "Yes, I actually really like *insert character here*" and then we can move on with the discussion instead making it a big deal by calling people out like its high school or some ****. Sometimes a question is just a question.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Actually whilst the whole Fire Emblem debate is going on; I see Celica brought up a lot but does Alm have anything of interest or uniqueness to offer?

Not a FE player but saw their amiibo with Celica's recently and was curious.

 

[Gumzilla]

I really want them to give each Pokemom their shiny forms as alts.

 

[Murlough]

I really want them to give each Pokemom their shiny forms as alts.

Honestly, it always baffles me why Sakurai never did that. The alt almost makes itself for you, why go for 7 random colors like *shivers* butterzard, when you could get his amazing looking shiny variation.

 

[Blargg888]

I really want them to give each Pokemom their shiny forms as alts.

Me too.
Although, it might just be that the Pokemon company doesn't want them to use shiny forms or something, I dunno.

 

[APC99]

Don't make me bring out the chart. I really don't want to bring out the chart.

Every Fire Emblem character has a good reason for staying in Smash Switch. Marth is the face of the Fire Emblem series, Ike is extremely popular in his home series, Roy has huge popularity in Melee alone, Lucina is the face of modern FE, Robin is the only mage so far, and Corrin is a manakete lord.

Plus the mindset of "once you're in Smash, you really can't leave" is omnipresent. People complained about Wolf in Brawl, yet here we are, with people putting him at the top of "most wanted characters" lists. In my opinion, there aren't any truly expendable characters in 3DS / Wii U's roster. Then again, there are some vets I'm not really favorable of. Young Link has effectively been redesigned as Toon Link, Pichu was kind of a last-minute joke character, and Squirtle / Ivysaur just aren't as interesting without the Trainer, plus Charizard at least has immense popularity.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Honestly, it always baffles me why Sakurai never did that. The alt almost makes itself for you, why go for 7 random colors like *shivers* butterzard, when you could get his amazing looking shiny variation.

Because it's not his choice. The Pokemon Company has to say yes as well. Pokemon is owned by 3 companies, so he can only do so much. Getting a character is not nearly as hard as how they have to be portrayed(including colors).

Same reason why Sonic and Pac-Man have awful colors.

 

[Blargg888]

Because it's not his choice. The Pokemon Company has to say yes as well. Pokemon is owned by 3 companies, so he can only do so much. Getting a character is not nearly as hard as how they have to be portrayed(including colors).

Same reason why Sonic and Pac-Man have awful colors.

I mean, on one hand, yeah, it's hard to tell Pac-Man's alts apart.

But on the other hand, I can give Pac-Man oven mitts, and that's amazing.

 

[ChikoLad]

Actually whilst the whole Fire Emblem debate is going on; I see Celica brought up a lot but does Alm have anything of interest or uniqueness to offer?

Not a FE player but saw their amiibo with Celica's recently and was curious.

While I would concede that Celica is far easier to make a unique fighter out of, I actually do think Alm has some things going for him.

His promoted form allows him to use a Bow, and also has a shield. He also has a few cool Arts that could be used for Specials and his Final Smash, such as...

Spoiler

Scendscale.

He was also really fast in SoV so I think they could make him a very aggressive fighter, using his sword and it's Arts, Bow, and Shield in creative ways. They could also incorporate some tackles and what not into his moveset.

Personally, I'd much rather Alm than Celica since he was a far more interesting character, and I think he has enough to where he could stand on his own. I still fully would expect Celica before him though, especially after CYL 2 in FE Heroes.

 

[Murlough]

Because it's not his choice. The Pokemon Company has to say yes as well. Pokemon is owned by 3 companies, so he can only do so much. Getting a character is not nearly as hard as how they have to be portrayed(including colors).

Same reason why Sonic and Pac-Man have awful colors.

So you're saying the Pokemon company is cool with letting a ton of pokemon be used in Smash, including things like stages and pokeballs but shiny forms are a strict no no. That sounds ludicrous but the more I think about it you might be right. Pokken doesn't use shiny forms either. It does this wierd *recolor for the match* thing if its a ditto.

Thats friggin' wierd but okie dokie Pokemon Company.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

So you're saying the Pokemon company is cool with letting a ton of pokemon be used in Smash, including things like stages and pokeballs but shiny forms are a strict no no. That sounds ludicrous but the more I think about it you might be right. Pokken doesn't use shiny forms either. It does this word *recolor for the match* thing if its a ditto.

Thats friggin' wierd but okide dokie Gamefreak.

The Pokemon Company and Gamefreak are two different companies with different views. TPC is wayyyyyyy more overprotective. Gamefreak is far easier to work with in comparison.

I mean, on one hand, yeah, it's hard to tell Pac-Man's alts apart.

But on the other hand, I can give Pac-Man oven mitts, and that's amazing.

I should've said "has mostly awful colors". Sonic dark and silver costumes are good too.

 

[Freduardo]

The next Fire Emblem character is going to be Arvis or Leif because the devs begged Sakurai to let them try to pressure IS into a Fire Emblem 4/5 hd remake on Switch through fan demand.

 

[Zippo]

Heard some people talking about Microsoft and Nintendo doing a surprise team up this year at E3 and perhaps having some crossover games. Banjo in Smash, Goldeneye on Switch, ect. This could be true. Xbox is probably willing to make hard deals to hurt sony now. 🤔🤔🤔

— DreamcastGuy (@DreamcastGuy) April 30, 2018

Nintendo's E3 is already looking to be potentially phenomenal (Smash Bros., Prime 4, Fire Emblem, Bayonetta, Retro's new title, possibly Pokemon, Wave Race, Punch Out, Pikmin 4) but this **** right here would send me through the roof if it was somehow true.

 

[Opossum]

The next Fire Emblem character is going to be Arvis or Leif because the devs begged Sakurai to let them try to pressure IS into a Fire Emblem 4/5 hd remake on Switch through fan demand.

To be honest I'd be a-okay with Arvis in Smash. It also means that even if he isn't the announcer again, we'd get to keep Xander Mobus.

 

[Blargg888]

The next Fire Emblem character is going to be Arvis or Leif because the devs begged Sakurai to let them try to pressure IS into a Fire Emblem 4/5 hd remake on Switch through fan demand.

I feel like a combined FE 4/5 wouldn't work as well as people think it would...

The FE5 midquel would sort of be too big of a break between the FE4 segments, plus it would mess with leveling.

Also, FE5 already has a rather large cast of very underdeveloped characters. Combine that with Geneology's cast, and you'd have an extremely inflated cast in general.

I feel like FE5 could really use its own remake, honestly. Not for a while, but maybe someday.

To be honest I'd be a-okay with Arvis in Smash. It also means that even if he isn't the announcer again, we'd get to keep Xander Mobus.

Plus, there are plenty of blue haired people in Smash Bros for Arvis to 'get aquainted' with.

 

[kylexv]

Heard some people talking about Microsoft and Nintendo doing a surprise team up this year at E3 and perhaps having some crossover games. Banjo in Smash, Goldeneye on Switch, ect. This could be true. Xbox is probably willing to make hard deals to hurt sony now. 🤔🤔🤔

— DreamcastGuy (@DreamcastGuy) April 30, 2018

Nintendo's E3 is already looking to be potentially phenomenal (Smash Bros., Prime 4, Fire Emblem, Bayonetta, Retro's new title, possibly Pokemon, Wave Race, Punch Out, Pikmin 4) but this **** right here would send me through the roof if it was somehow true.

Just seems to be some guy who heard something. Until I know this is from a refutable source this has no merit going for it.

Although the internet would implode if Banjo was in Smash Switch.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Microsoft has no bad blood with Nintendo. So there's a possibility. However it seems extremely unlikely. And what would they get out of it in return? Not much. None of the Nintendo properties will end up over on X Box. Even stuff like Bayonetta 2 and 3 is supremely doubtful.

 

[DGAMER]

My Take on the Fire Emblem debate

Keep Marth, Ike, Robin and Corrin. 4 Unique FE characters that aren't directly clones of other characters. They may all be swordsmen, but they have different tricks. (Marth and Ike represent the classic old school FE games, and Robin and Corrin represent the new FE style that started in Awakening.)

Cut Lucina and Roy, the two Marth Clones (I know Roy is a fan favorite, but his return in Smash 4 was nothing but a melee nostalgia cash grab. He is literally a worse version of Marth, no reason to keep him around. Lucina is a clone that probably won't survive because Awakening's time in the spotlight has faded to a point where two characters originating from Awakening is a bit too much.)

Add a new FE character that isn't from Awakening or Fates. (Any character would do. The only thing I ask is that they aren't a clone of any character. My money would be on Lyn if they do this.)

Add the FE16 Lord as DLC. (Give the character a introduction in FE16, and then bring him into Smash for more promotion.)

To me this is a perfect FE roster choice. Three characters from old FE, three characters from new FE, 0 change in total amount of characters from Smash 4 to Smash Switch.

(If Sakurai desperately needs a Fire Emblem fix, introduce the gun the summoner utilizes in Fire Emblem Heroes as a item in the vein of a Pokeball. Have the gun summon a FE character like a assist trophy. Sakurai can then go wild with FE characters.)

 

[ChikoLad]

Well they might be able to get that Super Mario pack for Minecraft on the Xbox versions.

That'd be something.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Well they might be able to get that Super Mario pack for Minecraft on the Xbox versions.

That'd be something.

That's nothing at all compared to GoldenEye on Switch or Banjo in Smash.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Ike gets cut before Robin, and there's absolutely no reason to cut either.

I doubt Sakurai enjoys cutting characters. I wouldn't expect many cuts for SSB5, even if that means less newcomers than 4.

Ike isn't going anywhere. It's like many think Lucario was gonna get cut for Mewtwo debate all over again

 

[Blargg888]

(If Sakurai desperately needs a Fire Emblem fix, introduce the gun the summoner utilizes in Fire Emblem Heroes as a item in the vein of a Pokeball. Have the gun summon a FE character like a assist trophy. Sakurai can then go wild with FE characters.)

I don't think Sakurai adds Fire Emblem characters out of any sort of obsession. All 6 of the FE characters have a stated reason for being in the game, not so much to do with bias towards the series.

 

[ChikoLad]

That's nothing at all compared to GoldenEye on Switch or Banjo in Smash.

I wouldn't be so sure.

Kids love their Minecraft more than adults love their Banjos, evidently.

Spoiler

I'm joking though, in case it wasn't obvious. Mostly, anyway.

 

[Wyoming]

I don't see any potential Microsoft/Nintendo partnership going anywhere beyond Minecraft skins and games being played online cross-platform (i.e: Rocket League, EA Sports titles if possible). A Smash character is possible, especially since we don't have a third party stand out this time around, but I wouldn't expect it entirely....

 

[Murlough]

He is literally a worse version of Marth, no reason to keep him around.

Yes, literally, except the part where they play completely differently than the other. Roy is a rushdown character, although a bad rushdown character in 4. Marth is zoning based. They are almost opposites play style wise.

Roy isn't a version of Marth at all. They literally took Marth's concept and flipped it, then gave him different moves with this opposite style in mind. Like I said, its OK to not want Roy but please look up a competitive game with Roy and then a competitive game with Marth and then tell me how one is just a worse version of the other. This argument is tired and blatantly incorrect.

a little piece of my heart dies every time I see this argument.


On the main subject, why wouldn't Bayonetta be coming to Xbox One? That sounds like a fine deal to me.

 

[Pazzo.]

I wonder if FE is as controversial is Japan as here..

 

[Blargg888]

He is literally a worse version of Marth, no reason to keep him around.

Not really though.
The thing is, some people like to argue that Roy isn't unique enough, while others argue that he's nothing like Marth at all. However, both of these interpretations aren't really true.

Roy was made a lot more unique in Smash 4. He had many of his moves changed to be different from Marth's, so he's now a different character. A semi-clone if you will. He has a different playstyle from Marth as well.

But Roy also clearly draws a lot from Marth. He still retains several of Marth's moves, just with different hit boxes, as well as several of Marth's animations. Plus, while his Dair may be different now, it's still basically Ike's Dair when it comes to animations.

He's not completely unique by any stretch, but he's also certainly not just "a worse Marth".