Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Sarki Soliloquy]

If regular Link for some reason doesn't get his moveset changed up a lot to reflect BotW, what do you guys wanna see changed in Toon Link's moveset if he were to be changed instead? I think he could probably use the hammer and the elemental rods for some moves, for example.

Depending on the degree of change Link receives, I always wanted to see Toon Link (or any of the clones really) have a moveset that either remixes him or completely changes him. Like, I would like to see some of the equipment from his games (e.g., Skull Hammer for Side Special.) Although if BotW Link is a serious departure, keeping him as he has been might actually be permissible for once!

 

[Sonic Poke]

Here is a Roster I made. 74 characters.

Newcomers:
Captain Toad: Part of me thinks he is shoe in. He appeared in every main 3d mario game since Galaxy, he has his own game, if that is not enough I don't know what is.
Kamek: A quite big Mario character, specially in the Yoshi branch, with a lot of moveset potential.
King K. Rool: If not him, Dixie. But it's past the time for a DK newcomer. I prefer the villain.
Rambi: Animal buddies are a huge part of the DK series and need representation. Rambi is playable in more DKC games than DK himself to be fair.
Pauline: Original maid in distress, relevant once again after recieving acclaim for her appearence in Odyssey. Can mix both retro and new elements frm the Mario/ DK series.
Urbosa: Or any BoTW Champion. They have lots of moveset potential. Urbosa can mix an arabic fight style with electric magic.
Rex and Pyra: Uniqueness and relevancy is on their side. The driver and blade mechanic could make an awesome fighter.
Medusa: Their is no such thing as overepresenting. Look at Fire Emblem. And it would be the first female villain that is not Wendy'O Koopa.
Ridley: Wishful thinking.
Decidueye: Badass looking grass type starter that represents the most recent Pokémon games.
Inklings: Confirmed.
Ribbon Girl: Arms needs marketing.
Takamaru: The retro rep.
Dillon: The series is growing, and with the first non-eshop title, Nintendo will push his inclusion for marketing purpouses.
Monster Hunter: This franchise is huge in Japan, and it's being crossovering with nintendo for some time now. IMO they will get a rep.
Celica: Fire Emblem always gets reps, I think now it won't be different.

EDIT: There is a duplicate Wii fit trainer that I didn't notice. Count her as a place holder lol.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

If regular Link for some reason doesn't get his moveset changed up a lot to reflect BotW, what do you guys wanna see changed in Toon Link's moveset if he were to be changed instead? I think he could probably use the hammer and the elemental rods for some moves, for example.

I’d honestly love if Toon Link is more Luigi-fied, and has some items from Wind Waker. His up-special could be the Deku Leaf. His down-special could be the Hammer. His neutral-special could Fire and Ice arrows, and his boomerang could stay the same, not having the gale effect.

 

[Logo12]

Didn't know where to post this so I figured I'd post it here. There was an interesting question I asked myself just a little bit ago, "What languages does each character speak?"

*snip*

One important point to note is that these games use English names as base likely because of the way it sounds to the Japanese, which would be more "exotic" than it does in English. It's somewhat like how we use Latin or Romance languages. This explains some of the Japanese Pokémon names, eg Krabby is "Crab", Sandshrew is "Sand", the legendary birds are "Freezer", "Thunder" and "Fire", the gen1 eeveelutions are "Showers", "Thunders", "Booster", along many others.

That's why I feel like the characters names don't really have much to do with the "actual language" spoken there, if anything some of them may as well be an evidence that it is not the native language of the universe. Like, who in any English speaking countries would name a fox "Fox"?

For terms and other names in English, this can mostly be explained by the existence of loanwords. Take Star Fox as example, you mentioned how names are exclusively English (or at least Western) styled, along with some weapon terms such as G-Diffuser, Blaster, Landmaster etc, but is English the only language used?

Spoiler: big image

This is from the Japanese version of Star Fox Zero:

超高性能回転式地対空戦車 (Choukou seinou kaitenshiki chitaikuu sensha -> Ultrahigh Performance Rotary Ground Anti-Aircraft Tank)????

Moreover, your post sorta assumes that in most cases each character only speaks one language. As a polyglot, my view (headcanon?) on this is a bit different:

(Also, some of my approaches have more to do with the localization than actual background of the game because I haven't played over half of the games :u)

Everyone in Smash has one or two lingua franca, that being English and Japanese. So far (with the exception of a few? I don't recall exactly) every character with voice has only English and/or Japanese voice.

We can divide the universes into these categories:

Earthling Universes

The backstory of these franchises are all set to some version of Earth. Some of them even have mentions of several countries, so finding out the languages they speak would be the easiest.
is American. So naturally he speaks English (although he doesn't really speak). However, in the Japanese version, Doc Louis happens to speak Japanese, so maybe Little Mac understands it (or maybe even can speak it?) for some reason.
is American. His profile says he is fluent in 6 languages, among which English, Japanese and French is mostly agreed upon, along with Russian, Yupik and Arabic as NintendoKnight has mentioned.
is Japanese. He can speak English however as demonstrated in several games.
's situation is a bit weird. I don't seem to find any specific "Countries" mentioned in his games, as most of the time it's theme in a inter-planetary level anyways. His nationality is thus unknown, but he has spoken English and Japanese.
's nationality is also unknown, but she has English and Japanese voice in Other M. This page says English is the primary language, but since there's no official source, I can't tell how true it is. Judging from Smash however, Samus primarily uses English.
probably can understand most human languages, like Kamikazek mentioned. For the language he speaks, he probably uses whatever is convenient anyway.
Human(-like) Universes
(+)(+)
(+ represents subsections/subfranchises. Ike represents "those who can speak English" here)
The main characters of these franchises are mostly Human-like. However, the setting of these universes don't ressemble our Earth, at least in terms of countries. Therefore, speculation on this includes some amount of headcanons.

speaks both English and Japanese. In Bayonetta's universe, there's also a fictional language called Enochian. I'm not sure for "fluent" Bayonetta is in it, since the most use of this language is for calling spells/incantations, which is roughly like saying Harry Potter can speak Latin because of the spells in the story.
speaks both English and Japanese. For why he doesn't speak English in Smash,... no reason. He just prefers Japanese I guess
's series don't have one single language. There may be a language family, but not much after that. For how they happen to be able to converse with one another, this phenomenon can be seen in the real word: Lingua Francas. It used to be French, now it's English. So I'm going to apply the same thing here and say that the Lingua Franca used to be Japanese, and then later English (+ Japanese), because why not. This is the simplest way to explain why spoke Japanese only but spoke both English and Japanese. On top of that, they probably have their own local languages as well, which by the continuity of the series, should be divided like this:
;;;->
so a total of 5 languages in 4 language families.
speaks Animalese. In the game it's basically a vocally synthesized version of English (or Japanese), so one can probably say he speaks them as well.
's story sets at a Western/American-like location. However, localization-wise, Lucas's game still isn't localized in English, so...?
(My headcanon is however, that Ness/Lucas speaks Japanese only and Villager speaks English only. I picked this up from one Miiverse post that is picked up by SourceGaming, but unfortunately it's gone now because rip miiverse)
probably speaks English, as he does in all games bar none. Though I wouldn't rule out the possibility that he can speak other languages, especially Japanese. The only "evidence" I can pick up would be Jump Up Super Star having a Japanese version. Also notable is that if Italian or some sort of similar language didn't exist in Mario's universe, where did Mario get that Italian accent? So I'm guessing there's a fictional language in Mario as well, though I'm lazy to find if one exists. Outside gibberish of course. is more or less the same. doesn't have a real language, but according to the Internet, he can in Mario 64 and Super Mario World. Similar thing happens for.
speaks a Hylian language, also speaks Sheikah language, and speaks Gerudo language. But since they seem to be able to communicate, there should be a vernacular language. It should be noted that Hylian language is highly inconsistent, while Hylian/Sheikah scripts can sometimes be transliterated into English. I can't find other "evidences" (unless we go to the CDiLink route), but I'd imagine at least Zelda and maybe Ganondorf can speak English and/or Japanese.
Earth-related Universes
(+)
These franchises either take place in a location that is associated with an Earth-like setting (possibly by really loose connections or cameos to other franchises), or involve non-human characters in a Human world.

does have a language, but with no mentioned on the details of it whatsoever. If we're willing to stretch and say that Ai no Uta is a canonical part of the game, then maybe they can speak Japanese (+ French???)

has a reaaaally loose connection to F-Zero, an "Earth-like" universe. This may be the reason English (or even Japanese?) words are borrowed into the franchise's culture and even as the names of the characters. But other than that, there is likely a Cornerian/Lylat language.

Also with the Codec conversation in Brawl, it's probably demonstrated that Snake can talk to Slippy, meaning that the spacies probably can speak English/Japanese regardless.
on an really unrelated sidenote here, the situation with the Star Fox universe is really weird. Corneria seems to be its own political entity, as opposed to having countries within the planet, but it seems to also have a 100% dog-humanoid population. On the other hand we have the whole Star Fox team, whose origins of the races aren't really clearly shown in the game. Like there just happens to have a fox, a bird, a frog and a rabbit out of nowhere. Every other planet is like uninhabitable, so where did they come from? Also how do they understand Cornerian language? Everything about the demographics of Star Fox is so unexplained that it's really hard to pinpoint the possible linguistic situation in the universe. Do they somehow have a unified language, or did they just take English/Japanese with themselves? Does minority languages exist? If so where to draw the line? This is driving me mad, but I'm probably overanalyzing. aaaaaaaaaaaa

Oh, and speaking of Earth languages, did you know Star Fox 64 has a Chinese localization? DOES THAT MEAN FOX AND FALCO AND WOLF CAN TECHNICALLY SPEAK CHINESE? WHAT? And they are probably the only characters in Smash having a Chinese voice? EVERYTHING DOESN'T MAKE SENSE
(Also I like to imagine that Fox only speaks Japanese now, due to how bad he sounded in Smash 4 :v)

is loosely connected to Megaman's universe. There's also a world in some Sonic spinoffs that takes part in a post-human Earth. The Sonic characters probably learned English/Japanese from there. There are no other evidence of their own languages existing however.

takes place in a human world. can speak English/Japanese for that reason. Other pokemons just can't speak human language. Not exactly sure why Mewtwo only spoke Japanese in the game however.

Non-earth Universes

These franchises have no relation with any Earth-like entities. This is probably going to be 90% imagination.

can speak.... he can mimic human languages, at least. can speak English/Japanese in Smash as well. has talked in the anime if that counts. Not sure how they learned the language however.

's series has no implied language. A wikia page mentioned a "common pac language", but I found no evidence.

has been able to talk to Chrom in the guidance, so I guess that's proof they can speak English/Japanese? They probably also have their own language (just assume it's Greek for now).

can speak English/Japanese. Again I have no idea how to find info about Xenoblade, I've stuck with this for half an hour and I still have no clue what to look for. He can talk in Smash, so I guess that's it.

Other Universes

These universes have virtually no backstory, so we can't tell at all. Except . They can probably speak English/Japanese, among others. The other 4 can't talk.

...so yeah, that's my thoughts. I spent waaaaaay more time than i think i would on this, I should probably do something useful instead now :/

 

[Bebe Mignon]

Didn't know where to post this so I figured I'd post it here. There was an interesting question I asked myself just a little bit ago, "What languages does each character speak?"

Though this works well as a general Nintendo game question, it's interesting for Smash because if these characters ever met and tried to converse, how many of them would actually understand each other?

So, I thought I'd go by each series and do my best to determine which language each character/series speaks. (Note, this only considers the characters that actually do talk.)

series speaks English. Every character is shown to speak English on many occasions, and this applies to all real-world regional versions of the games.

is heavily implied to speak English because it shares the same language as the Mario series.

series characters speak animal, with occasional uses of English by several characters. (How the crap do they do that? Perhaps its more impressive that the Mario characters can UNDERSTAND animal?)

series has been confirmed to speak both modern and ancient variants of the fictional Hylian language.

speaks Yoshi.

series is too hard to pin down. Could be a fictional language, but there's no indication either way.

series most likely speaks a variant of Greek.

speaks English. He's a boxer from New York, so it's no big surprise.

series speaks an unnamed fictional language, and has been demonstrated so.

series most likely speaks English, as the series is known to be a large cultural reference to America in general. Both Ness and Lucas pronounce all of their PK abilities in English as well.

series probably has several different languages strewn about. However, Captain Douglas Jay Falcon ABSOLUTELY speaks English. HYES!

series most likely speaks EBEBEBEBEBEB. Joking aside, Star Fox Adventures is only dubbed in English, therefore the language at that point is implied to be English. This isn't confirmed fact, but a high likelihood. Also, the terms and names used throughout the series are pronounced in English.

series most LIKELY speaks English. The Adventure series and Shadow the Hedgehog imply a US-styled country that would most likely speak English. Has also crossed over with Mario, whom speaks English. Even in the Japanese dubs, Sonic enjoys using English phrases.

series might also be English. His Japanese name is even pronounced in English (Rockman). His maker is Dr. Thomas Light. That's a very western name, implying a western language. (Also had a crossover comic series with Sonic, whom I also believe speaks English.)

likely speaks English, since a lot of English terminology is written all over FF7. Japanese plays aren't very likely to be named "Loveless." (If Kingdom Hearts were to be included in the language department, I'd have to write an essay about all the languages that have to be accounted for because of many cultures of the various Disney worlds used.)

is hard to determine a language for. However, might be English due to "Wii Fit" being a rather English phrase. Cannot be certain towards any language, really.

series likely speaks English, among other alien dialects. Fusion and Other M displayed the existence of characters with western names such as Adam Malkovich and Anthony Higgs. Also, Zero Suit Samus speaks English in all versions of the Smash Bros she's in.

speaks Animalese. Fact.

speaks WAKAWAKAWAKAWAKA. Otherwise, literally any other language is possible.

speaks English, but also knows and occasionally speaks Japanese.

speaks Japanese, and most likely knows English. May potentially know a few other languages, but Japanese for certain.

has been confirmed to speak English, but knows six languages in total. Among these are probably Russian, French, Japanese, Yupik, and possibly Arabic.

this is where it starts getting difficult. Pokemon make sounds. These sounds were interpreted as the names of each creature. Therefore each Pokemon only speaks their own name. However, and do in fact speak human languages in Smash. Therefore, I had to actually put significant thought into it. Either the Pokemon world has a different language for each region (the region's being based off of real-world regions with their own languages), or more likely the Pokemon world has one giant shared language that is known across all regions.
It's too difficult either way, especially since most Pokemon have their names changed depending on the real-world region of the version purchased.

series is really confusing on their languages. In their crossovers, it's implied that they all speak the same tongue. This might be true over the entire series regardless of crossover. Fates implies the same language as Awakening, which is most likely the same language as what Marth spoke. However, Fates and Awakening both tie Ike into the same language as well. However, there is a largely Norse emphasis throughout the series. Some Greek and Hebrew here and there, but Norse has had a large part in many names of tomes, weapons, and such. Therefore, the most likely language might be Scandinavian, or any of its dialects.

series speaks... well, oh boy. Xenoblade Chronicles 1,2, & X are all implied to be connected in very spoiler-y ways. But since X's major focal point is New Los Angeles, I will defer to English for now. I'd rather not have to dive too far into this rabbit hole, otherwise I'll get sucked into the proverbial void.

And that, I think, covers all the known languages in Smash. Many of these characters speak English... which is odd for a bunch of Japanese created characters.

But if you have any corrections about this, please say so!

It's this planet... It's something about this planet.

Spoiler

Those who have played Xenoblade Chronicles X will know what I'm talking about.

 

[Nekoo]

Hey! Someone actually made an interesting post while people are arguing about what's a clone and their ~~non~~ issue- Gotta answer that

And this is just a personal thing but I'm rather against the idea of adding characters purely for advertisement purposes. It makes sense and Nintendo has all the rights and freedom and so on to add whoever they want (that they own rights to obviously) for whatever purpose but up until 4, the main point of the series was it being a crossover of All Stars, first just Nintendo ones but then also third party ones. The term 'All Star' is subjective anyways and it's been mentioned before that there really isn't many left to add but in that case, I'd rather the addition of newcomers slow down until more worthy characters start popping up. 'Worthy' also being entirely subjective of course but then I have no influence in regards to the roster anyways outside of ballot-esque situations and even then, that's minuscule. Extra footnote to this point but I often look at this topic and think 'what if a 'Silver the Hedgehog' gets into Smash?' a character generally not liked from a despised game but what if that game is being advertised within another game? Like, imagine if Roy's game or FE Fates was as bad as Sonic 06 and now everytime you go back to Melee/Sm4sh, you see that piece of garbage from that awful game. Purely a hypothetical scenario sure but you completely avoid that situation by just...waiting. Like they did with Inklings or Olimar.

Well the problem being that- Is that as much as Smash is a game crossover, and a Nintendo/Gaming celebration, no crossover get made "for the lulz" there an after though behind it. How many people started getting interested in others franchise thanks to it? Because of a characters they suddently liked and such-
The biggest exemple is well...you said so yourself, Fire Emblem in the USA.

People seems to forget about it, but in japan, Fire Emblem is older than Sonic. (1990) And Four Year Older than the Donkey Kong Country series. Seven Year older than Pokémon. AND ONLY Three year younger than Final Freaking Fantasy.

But for the US, we only know it since 2003, and the series got brought here only thanks to Smash and that "Advertisement". But was it really advertisement for the Japanease Public? Marth was the first Lord in the series, back in 1990 and Roy's Game was going out what? Three months Laters? And Started the first Renaissance of the Fire Emblem Series before Awakening.

Thanks to that Advertisement Fire Emblem go known Worldwide, however, I believe that the fact we know the series """only"" since 2003 make people bias and make them think it's a "young" series, when it's infact not.

Then I can also talk about the Third party, and how they also help for the advertisement in their own series.
So, Answer me that, is it strange for a Series that old to get 3 character + 1 clone (only counting base game) and getting as DLC a Smash and JAPANESE FE FANDOM fan favourite and in bonus the hot new MyUnit in the series? I dunno....Maybe yes- But I think DLC aren't stealing a spot to anyone, or anything, after all, they're just bonus and mostly after though. Remember that Sakurai wasn't even sure to sell Mewtwo Separatly.

TL;DR I don't get the craze for a gen 8 Pokemon or an FE16 character and a simple question of what's more important in Smash to you: characters or gameplay?

People are pulling "Muh Sales" or "Muh representation" as A LOT of their arguments and main points for characters.
I sometimes feels people forget about the characters and gameplay itself and just want to have X series represented because Y series have more representation and don't like that.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Here is a Roster I made. 74 characters.

Newcomers:
Captain Toad: Part of me thinks he is shoe in. He appeared in every main 3d mario game since Galaxy, he has his own game, if that is not enough I don't know what is.
Kamek: A quite big Mario character, specially in the Yoshi branch, with a lot of moveset potential.
King K. Rool: If not him, Dixie. But it's past the time for a DK newcomer. I prefer the villain.
Rambi: Animal buddies are a huge part of the DK series and need representation. Rambi is playable in more DKC games than DK himself to be fair.
Pauline: Original maid in distress, relevant once again after recieving acclaim for her appearence in Odyssey. Can mix both retro and new elements frm the Mario/ DK series.
Urbosa: Or any BoTW Champion. They have lots of moveset potential. Urbosa can mix an arabic fight style with electric magic.
Rex and Pyra: Uniqueness and relevancy is on their side. The driver and blade mechanic could make an awesome fighter.
Medusa: Their is no such thing as overepresenting. Look at Fire Emblem. And it would be the first female villain that is not Wendy'O Koopa.
Ridley: Wishful thinking.
Decidueye: Badass looking grass type starter that represents the most recent Pokémon games.
Inklings: Confirmed.
Ribbon Girl: Arms needs marketing.
Takamaru: The retro rep.
Dillon: The series is growing, and with the first non-eshop title, Nintendo will push his inclusion for marketing purpouses.
Monster Hunter: This franchise is huge in Japan, and it's being crossovering with nintendo for some time now. IMO they will get a rep.
Celica: Fire Emblem always gets reps, I think now it won't be different.

Two things here that are giving me conniptions.

1. Rambi. First of all, how is he going to have a full fighting game moveset? He charges and jumps. I just can’t see a freaking rhino jumping around in the air fighting. Secondly, animal buddies are kind of a bigger part of the DKC series, but that doesn’t mean he has to be playable. He’s perfect assist trophy material. Dixie Kong is more recognizable and has more moveset potential to be another DK Newcomer.

2. Pauline. Pauline is an alright choice, I just don’t think she should be with the DK characters. Yes, she debuted in Donkey Kong, but both DK characters on the roster (in addition to the likely Dixie and K Rool) are representing the Country series. Pauline would be better suited next to the Mario characters on the roster. She fits better aesthetically next to them design-wise, and she would almost certainly be included because of her appearance in Odyssey, a Mario game.

 

[Opossum]

I'd be totally on board with a playable Rambi. Rhinos are great.

 

[Cosmic77]

Pauline is an alright choice, I just don’t think she should be with the DK characters.

"I just don't think she should be with the DK characters."

The magical words that summon @TheLastJinjo.

I agree. If Pauline gets in Smash, you can have Odyssey (a Mario game) to thank for that. Before that game, no one would have even given her a second thought.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

I’m personally not a fan of the idea that Link will get a moveset overhaul to reflect BotW and slate abilities, instead of keeping the items he’s been using for 30 years. I also don’t want “Wild Link” as his own character, because I really don’t want three Links, especially when the Zelda series has such a rich pool of characters to pull from for Smash.

I’m hoping (and predicting) that it’s just a cosmetic change, maybe with the moves looking different (like the bow and boomerang looking like BotW ones, and the bombs being sheikah slate bombs) but functioning the same. Maybe even the Triforce Slash or whatever the final smash is called could be changed to Stasis and still function the same, while now being a thing Link actually does. The only thing in his moveset that he doesn’t use in BotW is his hookshot, but that could just left alone.

If it’s just a cosmetic change like this, he could (should, and probably will) have his iconic green tunic as an alt, hopefully with a full set of color swaps too.

Remember, when Smash 5 started development, BotW was released and wasn’t game of the year yet. There’s no reason for Sakurai to update his entire classic moveset to reflect a new game that he didn’t even know would be a hit or not. And if he already had Link near done (especially with a base probably ported over from Smash U), I don’t think he would change the whole moveset just because BotW did really well.

 

[Sonic Poke]

Two things here that are giving me conniptions.

1. Rambi. First of all, how is he going to have a full fighting game moveset? He charges and jumps. I just can’t see a freaking rhino jumping around in the air fighting. Secondly, animal buddies are kind of a bigger part of the DKC series, but that doesn’t mean he has to be playable. He’s perfect assist trophy material. Dixie Kong is more recognizable and has more moveset potential to be another DK Newcomer.

This is an old moveset I made. I need to improve it you can have an idea:

2. Pauline. Pauline is an alright choice, I just don’t think she should be with the DK characters. Yes, she debuted in Donkey Kong, but both DK characters on the roster (in addition to the likely Dixie and K Rool) are representing the Country series. Pauline would be better suited next to the Mario characters on the roster. She fits better aesthetically next to them design-wise, and she would almost certainly be included because of her appearance in Odyssey, a Mario game.

I really don't mind where to put her. Whether its DK or Mario I don't care.

 

[Sage of Ice]

Hey! Someone actually made an interesting post while people are arguing about what's a clone and their ~~non~~ issue- Gotta answer that

sorry i brought it up! won't happen again

 

[Mega Bidoof]

This is an old moveset I made. I need to improve it you can have an idea:

I really don't mind where to put her. Whether its DK or Mario I don't care.

Ok you’ve convinced that Rhambi can work. I am getting Duck Hunt vibes from the four-legged animal that uses a bird to help where it can’t do much.

I just still think Dixie, K. Rool, and maybe Cranky should all be in first.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

If pauline is a dk character wouldn't that make mario a dk character too? lmao

 

[Curious Villager]

You know what they should do for Smash Switch? Give every character (And stage) their own unique symbols. The Triforce Trio get their own triforce piece highlighted, Sheik gets the sheika symbol, Toon Link the Wind Waker etc. That way we don't have to concern ourselves so much over what symbols characters like Pauline needs to fall under...

 

[Cosmic77]

Remember, when Smash 5 started development, BotW was released and wasn’t game of the year yet. There’s no reason for Sakurai to update his entire classic moveset to reflect a new game that he didn’t even know would be a hit or not. And if he already had Link near done (especially with a base probably ported over from Smash U), I don’t think he would change the whole moveset just because BotW did really well.

Even though I think Link should stay close to what he already is, I don't think the "BotW was too early" argument works very well in this case. Based off the response BotW got at E3 2016, it didn't take a genius to figure out that this would be a ground-breaking Zelda game. Out of every game that wasn't released before development on Smash Switch officially started, I feel like BotW has the best chance to get the most out of this new Smash, be it as the form of new characters or a revamped Link/Zelda.

The transition from the iconic green vest and cap to the newer BotW look makes me think we're getting something much more important than a mere cosmetic change. Could be wrong, but I have a strong feeling that something big is happening.

If pauline is a dk character wouldn't that make mario a dk character too? lmao

The original Donkey Kong arcade game marks the beginning of both the Super Mario and DK franchises, so...

I guess you technically wouldn't be wrong in saying Mario is a DK character (sounds ridiculous, but it could be argued), but I could just as easily say that DK is a Mario character. Despite its namesake, the arcade game isn't tied down to just one franchise.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

You know what they should do for Smash Switch? Give every character (And stage) their own unique symbols. The Triforce Trio get their own triforce piece highlighted, Sheik gets the sheika symbol, Toon Link the Wind Waker etc. That way we don't have to concern ourselves so much over what symbols characters like Pauline needs to fall under...

So kinda like the sigils for each of the BlazBlue characters, or the heralds that've been coming for the Soul Calibur VI characters? I mean, there's probably a lot of untapped potential there. Its just how much minimalism vs. complexity would suit the Smash 5 artstyle & UI (which we really have yet to see besides indications of increased dynamic lighting effects.)

 

[Gumzilla]

You know what they should do for Smash Switch? Give every character (And stage) their own unique symbols. The Triforce Trio get their own triforce piece highlighted, Sheik gets the sheika symbol, Toon Link the Wind Waker etc. That way we don't have to concern ourselves so much over what symbols characters like Pauline needs to fall under...

But each symbol represents the series a character comes from. If Sheik had the Sheikah symbol I feel that would make players who haven't played Ocarina of time think she might be from a different game and get confused when they see her in the LoZ category in the trophy gallery. Each character shares symbols for a reason.

 

[Curious Villager]

So kinda like the sigils for each of the BlazBlue characters, or the heralds that've been coming for the Soul Calibur VI characters? I mean, there's probably a lot of untapped potential there. Its just how much minimalism vs. complexity would suit the Smash 5 artstyle & UI (which we really have yet to see besides indications of increased dynamic lighting effects.)

I'm not too familiar with those games so I don't know if they did the same, but I basically mean like what Nintendo usually does with the Mario Sports games where every character has their own symbols and all, Mario has the M, Luigi the L, Peach her Crown, Toad the mushroom logo etc. I don't think It's something too complex to do, I mean certain characters like Bowser, Rosalina, Dark Pit and Meta Knight already have their own victory themes and all.

 

[Jubileus57]

This is an old moveset I made. I need to improve it you can have an idea:

I really don't mind where to put her. Whether its DK or Mario I don't care.

Great, now I need a Rambi + Squawks vteam in Smash.

Although some people will be quite angry to see an endangered species being gunned down by Bayonetta. As we say in France, ça ferait désordre.

 

[BinWeevil28]

Chance and Want Rankings


Newcomers
Chance
4. Dixie Kong (57.51%)
6. Captain Toad (48.60%)
7. King K. Rool (48.49%)
11. Waluigi (34.21%)
13. Paper Mario (32.74%)
24. Daisy (15.04%)

I saw this in the Rate Their Chances thread...this puzzles me? I get why the Want Rating is so low but why is the chance rating for Daisy so low

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I’m personally not a fan of the idea that Link will get a moveset overhaul to reflect BotW and slate abilities, instead of keeping the items he’s been using for 30 years. I also don’t want “Wild Link” as his own character, because I really don’t want three Links, especially when the Zelda series has such a rich pool of characters to pull from for Smash.

I’m hoping (and predicting) that it’s just a cosmetic change, maybe with the moves looking different (like the bow and boomerang looking like BotW ones, and the bombs being sheikah slate bombs) but functioning the same. Maybe even the Triforce Slash or whatever the final smash is called could be changed to Stasis and still function the same, while now being a thing Link actually does. The only thing in his moveset that he doesn’t use in BotW is his hookshot, but that could just left alone.

If it’s just a cosmetic change like this, he could (should, and probably will) have his iconic green tunic as an alt, hopefully with a full set of color swaps too.

Remember, when Smash 5 started development, BotW was released and wasn’t game of the year yet. There’s no reason for Sakurai to update his entire classic moveset to reflect a new game that he didn’t even know would be a hit or not. And if he already had Link near done (especially with a base probably ported over from Smash U), I don’t think he would change the whole moveset just because BotW did really well.

Honestly I think people are overestimating how different link is gonna be, I'm expecting new bombs that are detonatable, a new side special using one of the runes and a new grab. And breath of the wild was supposed to come out in 2015 anyway, Sakurai being informed and implementing stuff from it isn't out of the realm of possibility at all.

 

[Cosmic77]

I saw this in the Rate Their Chances thread...this puzzles me? I get why the Want Rating is so low but why is the chance rating for Daisy so low

I think Daisy is less likely due to her lack of popularity (by comparison). All of the other characters you listed are requested far more often than Daisy.

However, I do think people are being more than a little biased with their predictions. Realistically, Geno would have a much lower chance of getting in Smash than Daisy due to Square Enix and his lack of relevancy, but I guarantee you the wooden doll performed much better than Daisy in chance scores just because of his fan support.

 

[A Distant Demon]

I saw this in the Rate Their Chances thread...this puzzles me? I get why the Want Rating is so low but why is the chance rating for Daisy so low

Man you are so damn transparent it isn't even funny.

 

[Jubileus57]

I think Daisy is less likely due to her lack of popularity (by comparison). All of the other characters you listed are requested far more often than Daisy.

However, I do think people are being more than a little biased with their predictions. Realistically, Geno would have a much lower chance of getting in Smash than Daisy due to Square Enix and his lack of relevancy, but I guarantee you the wooden doll performed much better than Daisy in chance scores just because of his fan support.

Poor Daisy. She deserves better.

 

[Gumzilla]

I want some final smashes to change. Like Sheik for example! She still has the light arrow. This made sense when she was a tag team character but not as a stand alone character! They changed Zero Suit's final so why not Sheik's?

 

[Megadoomer]

I saw this in the Rate Their Chances thread...this puzzles me? I get why the Want Rating is so low but why is the chance rating for Daisy so low

There's a lot of Mario characters to choose from, and she doesn't have a great deal to offer beyond moves inspired by sports/kart/party games (which a bunch of other characters could just as easily use) or a vague flower theme (which isn't much to go on, or would require a lot of random extrapolation to turn into a moveset).

 

[BinWeevil28]

Poor Daisy. She deserves better.

Yeah, I feel like Daisy has serious potential to step up with the big guns in Smash, but I guess her irrelevance in the 90's hurt...

Also, how the heck can't people think up of moves based on flowers? Smash literally has a Flower mechanic.

 

[92MilesPrower]

I saw this in the Rate Their Chances thread...this puzzles me? I get why the Want Rating is so low but why is the chance rating for Daisy so low

Compared to other potential newcomers, Daisy just isn't as important to the Mario series as other characters are important to their respective franchises and are usually more important to put into Smash Bros. before Daisy in the eyes of others. For example, K. Rool is the main villain of the original DKC games and Dixie is the 3rd protagonist, Ridley is the most recurring character other than Samus in Metroid, Decidueye represents the 7th generation of Pokémon and completes the starter type triangle, etc. Daisy would mostly just represent the Mario spinoff games because of her absence in main series Mario games, and representing those games isn't a priority to most. Not to mention, this chance factor sort of relies on Sakurai, and Sakurai might not see much potential for her beyond being pretty similar to Peach, with a few exceptions.

 

[Pokechu]

i feel like if mario gets anyone other than captain toad or paper mario then it'd just be bloating the roster... this is a nintendo crossover, not a mario crossover... waluigi, daisy, and pauline aren't smash worthy at all as they're not important to their home series nor relevant in any main mario games.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

I'm not too familiar with those games so I don't know if they did the same, but I basically mean like what Nintendo usually does with the Mario Sports games where every character has their own symbols and all, Mario has the M, Luigi the L, Peach her Crown, Toad the mushroom logo etc. I don't think It's something too complex to do, I mean certain characters like Bowser and Meta Knight already have their own victory themes and all.

With Smash 4 being much more liberal with victory themes compared to just Meta Knight's from Brawl, I suppose one could conclude that series icons don't correlate with victory themes. So it won't hurt if they're left alone since it fulfills the same design schema since 64, but they're not dependent on each other at the same time.

Also, about your Triforce example, Melee intro movie says hi:

Wanna hear me foam at the mouth analyzing character design? As for the series I was using as examples, here's what I'd imagine from Smash:

Spoiler

Taokaka has an emblem behind here vaguely resembling a feline head (along with several uses of cat anatomy thru stroke work), representing her Kaka Clan heritage. The tribal, sharp edgework sells not only her fighting style being integral with nails & claws (not the mention the fanged grin in the center reminding you of the zipper of her coat or that lovely Cheshire grin of her's), but how rambunctious, zany, & unpredictable personality. Consequently, this is how I would describe Taokaka's speed-heavy pressure playstyle.

Nightmare has an inked engraving of an aegis bearing etchwork & iconography analogous of European (specifically German) nobility (though one could say the floreum motif traces back all the way to Classical Greco-Roman architecture). This pairs the elegant vibe well with the laurel leaves emblazoning the center edges of the aegis. Notice how your eyes follow it up to the alicorn, a decadent, otherworldly beast revered through European iconography for centuries. It juxtaposes Siegfried's origin & appearance as an armored paragon of chivalry, while conveying the sense of distortion & corruption of something so natural & authoritarian.

Moreover, if you look at Siegfried's official art, the alicorn faces right, with the horn cut in half. This symbolizes how he's fought back his desire to succumb to Soul Edge, yet the horn still roots in his head, so he must atone for his past. The right direction (or 'right hand/right-hand path') is also used to describe religions or philosophies that are informed by collective, benevolent need for the greater good. Nightmare's alicorn faces left to represent individual malevolence, yet Siegfried's opposes this.

 

[Cosmic77]

Even though her fans would probably want something better, I always thought Daisy would work really well as a Peach clone.

Imagine if Daisy's side-special was a faster, less powerful version of Peach's, except it spawned a flower on the person's head. Then you swap out Toad and the parasol for something different, keep the rest of the moveset the same while swapping out the heart effects with flowers, and BAM! You have what would be in my opinion the ideal representation Daisy.

Even if you don't like the idea, you have to admit, it'd be nice to get a clone character out of someone besides Mario, Link, Fox, and Marth.

 

[BinWeevil28]

Even though her fans would probably want something better, I always thought Daisy would work really well as a Peach clone.

Imagine if Daisy's side-special was a faster, less powerful version of Peach's, except it spawned a flower on the person's head. Then you swap out Toad and the parasol for something different, keep the rest of the moveset the same while swapping out the heart effects with flowers, and BAM! You have what would be in my opinion the ideal representation Daisy.

Even if you don't like the idea, you have to admit, it'd be nice to get a clone character out of someone besides Mario, Link, Fox, and Marth.

What about the float? You would need to change her AI if you want to keep that move. I also don't think SMB2 vegetables suit her and that would need to be swapped for something else.

 

[Cosmic77]

What about the float? You would need to change her AI if you want to keep that move. I also don't think SMB2 vegetables suit her and that would need to be swapped for something else.

The vegetables could work. Seems to fit in with her flower theme decently.

Besides, not every clone character gets the unique moveset they deserve. Dr. Mario keeping an awkward version of Super Cape still makes zero sense to me.

 

[BinWeevil28]

The vegetables could work. Seems to fit in with her flower theme decently.

Besides, not every clone character gets the unique moveset they deserve. Dr. Mario keeping an awkward version of Super Cape still makes zero sense to me.

It makes sense because doctors have sheets and Doctor Mario is Mario in a getup. Daisy is not Peach in a yellow dress and a different hair colour.

Still, I don't see to get why people think she would be like Peach, and they ask for a flat version of Mario instead!

 

[Curious Villager]

With Smash 4 being much more liberal with victory themes compared to just Meta Knight's from Brawl, I suppose one could conclude that series icons don't correlate with victory themes. So it won't hurt if they're left alone since it fulfills the same design schema since 64, but they're not dependent on each other at the same time.

Also, about your Triforce example, Melee intro movie says hi:

Wanna here me foam at the mouth analyzing character design? As for the series I was using as examples, here's what I imagine:

Spoiler

Taokaka has an emblem behind here vaguely resembling a feline head (along with several uses of cat anatomy thru stroke work), representing her Kaka Clan heritage. The tribal, sharp edgework sells not only her fighting style being integral with nails & claws (not the mention the fanged grin in the center reminding you of the zipper of her coat or that lovely Cheshire grin of her's), but how rambunctious, zany, & unpredictable personality. Consequently, this is how I would describe Taokaka's speed-heavy pressure playstyle.

Nightmare has an inked engraving of an aegis bearing etchwork & iconography analogous of European (specifically German) nobility (though one could say the floreum motif traces back all the way to Classical Greco-Roman architecture). This pairs the elegant vibe well with the laurel leaves emblazoning the center edges of the aegis. Notice how your eyes follow it up to the alicorn, a decadent, otherworldly beast revered through European iconography for centuries. It juxtaposes Siegfried's origin & appearance as an armored paragon of chivalry, while conveying the sense of distortion & corruption of something so natural & authoritarian.

Moreover, if you look at Siegfried's official art, the alicorn faces right, with the horn cut in half. This symbolizes how he's fought back his desire to succumb to Soul Edge, yet the horn still roots in his head, so he must atone for his past. The right direction (or 'right hand/right-hand path') is also used to describe religions or philosophies that are informed by collective, benevolent need for the greater good. Nightmare's alicorn faces left to represent individual malevolence, yet Siegfried's opposes this.

I mean you where talking about minimalism and complexity of the UI so I assumed you meant in regards to feasibility of implementing unique symbols for every character. I know victory themes where shared with every character up to Brawl, but in Smash 4, victory themes where implemented in such a fashion that every character could get their own as they all had their own separate files for one another. If they want, they can implement main symbols that represents a given series in general for things like Trophies and perhaps certain stages that overlap with a lot of different characters whereas the main roster has their own individual symbols and victory themes.

And I see, I suppose something like that could work.

 

[New_Dumal]

I think Dk buddies animals should be a item, as Assist Trophies, but not AT, but coming from barrels.

They can be unique if you can mount them (as happens in the DKC game), or be with you as a ally until you die.
Maybe the animal can be chosen from where the barrel it's destroyed.
If you launch in the ground is Rambi, side parts of the stage is Squitter, Enguarde from water and Squawks if destroyed in the air.

 

[BinWeevil28]

Also, if people consider Donkey Kong Country to be considered it's own series, then what about WarioWare? Mario Kart? Mario Tennis? Mario Party? Mario Golf?

 

[Jubileus57]

It makes sense because doctors have sheets and Doctor Mario is Mario in a getup. Daisy is not Peach in a yellow dress and a different hair colour.

Still, I don't see to get why people think she would be like Peach, and they ask for a flat version of Mario instead!

Well, Paper Mario would be nothing like Mario himself be it playsty-wise of even moveset-wise si I can understand they wouldn't want Peach clone material (their loss, really) but root for Paper Mario.

Then again, I'd do anything to get both.

 

[MrReyes96]

It’s easy to see why people want Waluigi more than Daisy
He can’t just be a model swap, he has more personality, and he’s surprisingly popular
He’s much a much more fun character and I’m happy to see such a high amount of requests for him

As far as new Link I think it would be a missed opportunity to not change him up. It would be weird to play as Link from breath of the wild yet still have the same moves as regular link.
Change his speed, replace some normals, change some specials.
Then just have either toon link or classic link as the second link to keep that old moveset