Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

Also, if people consider Donkey Kong Country to be considered it's own series, then what about WarioWare? Mario Kart? Mario Tennis? Mario Party? Mario Golf?

Well, you see, DKC and WarioWare are considered to be their own series, but those others are just Mario spin-offs.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

I mean you where talking about minimalism and complexity of the UI so I assumed you meant in regards to feasibility of implementing unique symbols for every character. I know victory themes where shared with every character up to Brawl, but in Smash 4, victory themes where implemented in such a fashion that every character could get their own as they all had their own separate files for one another. If they want, they can implement main symbols that represents a given series in general for things like Trophies and perhaps certain stages that overlap with a lot of different characters whereas the main roster has their own individual symbols and victory themes.

And I see, I suppose something like that could work.

Ehn, I guess I should've clarified that I initially meant if the presentation style of Smash 5 would make something like my examples too acerbic. I think it has a lot of potential, we know how much Sakurai likes to get the most character out of the characters. Doesn't even have to be that intricate to work.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I am currently making an honorable mention newcomers for my roster predictions. I have characters like Captain Toad, Crash, Doom Guy, Heihachi, and Funky Kong.

The last choice in particular I seem to have a major despise for. It is weird for me to be open to Octolings, but not like the idea of Funky being a last-minute clone character.

There is something or some aura about Funky that I hate, yet I cannot deny he is such a freaking plausible character. It feels as if I went back in time and was on the opposite side against Dark Pit's inclusion back in Smash 4. I don't want to put him in my predictions, yet Funky's soul cries out for me to put him in my roster.

 

[BinWeevil28]

Well, you see, DKC and WarioWare are considered to be their own series, but those others are just Mario spin-offs.

Yoshi also has it's own emblem. I do not think the emblem matters that much when it comes to roster selection.

 

[osby]

It makes sense because doctors have sheets and Doctor Mario is Mario in a getup. Daisy is not Peach in a yellow dress and a different hair colour.

Still, I don't see to get why people think she would be like Peach, and they ask for a flat version of Mario instead!

Paper Mario has numerous games which he shows a lot of talents different than Mario, he has his own series, he has a pretty unique art style. Daisy is not a Peach pallette swap but she doesn't have much that Peach can't do.

I want some final smashes to change. Like Sheik for example! She still has the light arrow. This made sense when she was a tag team character but not as a stand alone character! They changed Zero Suit's final so why not Sheik's?

Zero Suit Samus's Final Smash had to be changed because she no longer could transform Samus. Sheik already don't have much to offer in terms of Final Smash category. Combine it with the fact that Legend of Zelda characters are supposed to be a mix of their different versions (like Zelda's new down special), it doesn't completely meaningless. Also,it works, so it's simply easier to keep it and move on. This is really whole reason we still have Sheik.

 

[BinWeevil28]

aper Mario has numerous games which he shows a lot of talents different than Mario

Well I am pretty sure Mario can use the hammer, and fireballs, and ice flower...

 

[Megadoomer]

Also, if people consider Donkey Kong Country to be considered it's own series, then what about WarioWare? Mario Kart? Mario Tennis? Mario Party? Mario Golf?

The Donkey Kong Country and Wario Ware games (or most Wario games outside of the first Wario Land) tend to be their own individual things, and don't have much of a connection to the broader Mario setting. You don't see characters like Mario making appearances outside of very rare cameos.

There isn't a great deal of overlap between Donkey Kong Country and Mario, or Wario Ware and Mario - Mario appeared in the ending of DKC2, but by that logic, DKC is also directly tied to Zelda, Yoshi's Island, Sonic, and Earthworm Jim.

 

[Opossum]

Man you are so damn transparent it isn't even funny.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who realized it...just report and ignore them.

 

[osby]

Well I am pretty sure Mario can use the hammer, and fireballs, and ice flower...

That's what I'm saying. You can take a lot of aspects of Mario and turn them into two pretty different fighters. Until now, we only got Luigi and Dr. Mario, so people really think there's room for more.

Daisy can get different moves if she's going to be based from Peach, but in the end she has very limited canon appearences and her spin-off appearences isn't starring roles. one can work a little and come up with something completely unique, but I don't think she's worth the effort.

 

[Hammer B]

Is asking for Captain Toad instead of Toad as playable character the same as asking for Detective Pikachu instead of Pikachu?

 

[Megadoomer]

Is asking for Captain Toad instead of Toad as playable character the same as asking for Detective Pikachu instead of Pikachu?

Not really; Detective Pikachu can't attack in any way, while Captain Toad can.

 

[Troykv]

Is asking for Captain Toad instead of Toad as playable character the same as asking for Detective Pikachu instead of Pikachu?

Captain Toad is a main-series character... so... isn't exactly the same.

 

[BinWeevil28]

Not really; Detective Pikachu can't attack in any way, while Captain Toad can.

Captain Toad also cannot jump.

 

[blackghost]

I'm low-key mad that all three of the Melee veterans we clamored for are never used online. Seriously, Dr. Mario is basically extinct, Mewtwo is a character people want to be good with but never get the hang of, and most people ditched Roy and went back to Marth and Lucina once the general consensus was "Yeah, this character isn't as good as we initially thought."
.

this is a big problem i have with the community as well.i don't want king k becuase i dont think he will be played. i tihnk he will be bad as a character (as all heavies will when and if rage is gone).
i support characters like lyn, zero, shantae, and pyhra becuase i think they will be new and actually be used. and will be interesting and have unique mechanics.

 

[BinWeevil28]

That's what I'm saying. You can take a lot of aspects of Mario and turn them into two pretty different fighters. Until now, we only got Luigi and Dr. Mario, so people really think there's room for more.

Daisy can get different moves if she's going to be based from Peach, but in the end she has very limited canon appearences and her spin-off appearences isn't starring roles. one can work a little and come up with something completely unique, but I don't think she's worth the effort.

Whether a character is worth the effort is extremely subjective. None of the Mario cast really cover the sports games in their movesets, and Daisy has her own thing that Waluigi and the rest do not...flower powers! And with Mario, the lines between "main series" and "spinoff characters are very blurred. With the exception of the RPG's and other secondary characters in Wario Ware and DK.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

So we're at Captain Toad again.

We sure cycle between a select few debates.

Rex & Pyra vs Elma
Decidueye vs Incenaroar vs Mimikyu vs hypothetical Gen 8
Fire Emblem Representation
Overall roster size

 

[osby]

Whether a character is worth the effort is extremely subjective. None of the Mario cast really cover the sports games in their movesets, and Daisy has her own thing that Waluigi and the rest do not...flower powers! And with Mario, the lines between "main series" and "spinoff characters are very blurred. With the exception of the RPG's and other secondary characters in Wario Ware and DK.

I think sport games are pretty much covered. Even if you don't include Peach's golf club and Bowser Jr.'s cart dash, Wii Fit Trainer uses a ball and atlethic moves and a character whose moveset consist of flowers+sport doesn't sound pretty exciting or inspired.

I'm not trying to burst your bubble and there are worse picks around (maybe even ones already in the roster). What I'm saying is unless she's a moveset swap of Peach, Daisy isn't really interesting so much that makes someone picks her when looking for a potential fighter.

 

[BinWeevil28]

I think sport games are pretty much covered. Even if you don't include Peach's golf club and Bowser Jr.'s cart dash, Wii Fit Trainer uses a ball and atlethic moves and a character whose moveset consist of flowers+sport doesn't sound pretty exciting or inspired.

I'm not trying to burst your bubble and there are worse picks around (maybe even ones already in the roster). What I'm saying is unless she's a moveset swap of Peach, Daisy isn't really interesting so much that makes someone picks her when looking for a potential fighter.

By that logic, DK is over represented. We also have no plant based fighters in Smash Bros at all. What better to represent them both by a princess who is sporty, has flowers in her name, the appropriate powers and is popular even outside forums! I know people who have been clamouring for Daisy in Smash for a very very long time. We also have ZERO references to Mario Baseball, a series which Namco worked on, besides Daisy herself in Smash Tour.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

So we're at Captain Toad again.

We sure cycle between a select few debates.

Rex & Pyra vs Elma
Decidueye vs Incenaroar vs Mimikyu vs hypothetical Gen 8
Fire Emblem Representation
Overall roster size

Could be worse, like the Marx vs Dee subject again.

Or Splatoon deserving more than one rep.

 

[Hammer B]

I hope Peach's Forward Smash now can reflect projectiles like Ness' and Lucas'

 

[Wyoming]

This thread whenever Captain Toad is mentioned

 

[osby]

I hope Peach's Forward Smash now can reflect projectiles like Ness' and Lucas'

It'd cool, yeah.

though she's pretty high tier in the first place, so it's not like she needs it...

 

[SuperMii3D]

Personally, Daisy could represent all of the plant life in the Mushroom Kingdom, seeing how important flowers and vines have been to the Mario series. Of course she has her own moves and sports techniques into the mix but of course few people would support it.

 

[Cosmic77]

So we're at Captain Toad again.

We sure cycle between a select few debates.

Rex & Pyra vs Elma
Decidueye vs Incenaroar vs Mimikyu vs hypothetical Gen 8
Fire Emblem Representation
Overall roster size

There's also:

"Development started too early for Spring Man."
"We're probably not getting any cuts."
"Lucina and Dark Pit should be decloned."
"It's not impossible to get a Microsoft rep."

And my personal favorite

"Give it a rest, Cosmic. The Champions are better off in a revamped BotW Zelda moveset."

 

[Pokechu]

This thread whenever Captain Toad is mentioned

oh wait i'm curious, i'm pretty biased towards shroom bby so it's no wonder why I don't know, but what's wrong with him that makes the thread essentially blow up/die like the car in the gif? Shroom bby is a sweet cinnamon roll :^(

 

[Opossum]

If we need a Mario character to "represent plantlife" for whatever reason, have I got the perfect guy...

WAA.

 

[BinWeevil28]

If we need a Mario character to "represent plantlife" for whatever reason, have I got the perfect guy...

View attachment 142569
WAA.

He doesn't have them in his design...

 

[A Distant Demon]

oh wait i'm curious, i'm pretty biased towards shroom bby so it's no wonder why I don't know, but what's wrong with him that makes the thread essentially blow up/die like the car in the gif? Shroom bby is a sweet cinnamon roll :^(

Well in this case, someone has an agenda to push but. . .

Generally Toad cant work in smash because he doesn't jump in his own game VS Toad can jump because smash doens't give a **** about canon . . .has been a recurring argument to say the least. In the 1000 pages it's probably shown up on 600 of them

hyperbole

 

[Pokechu]

If we need a Mario character to "represent plantlife" for whatever reason, have I got the perfect guy...

View attachment 142569
WAA.

to be fair though, daisy would do it better because she has a whole motif dealing with flowers, and her name is daisy after all

not that we need a character to represent "plantlife" or w/e, that's pretty unnecessary imo

 

[Guybrush20X6]

There's also:

"Development started too early for Spring Man."
"We're probably not getting any cuts."
"Lucina and Dark Pit should be decloned."
"It's not impossible to get a Microsoft rep."

And my personal favorite

"Give it a rest, Cosmic. The Champions are better off in a revamped BotW Zelda moveset."

And the related "Zelda will only have Link, Zelda and Ganondorf; never characters that only appeared in just one game." (WHAT THE **** IS A SHEIK?!)

[On that topic, I'd want and could see Midna or Skull Kid getting a promotion.]

 

[Wyoming]

Perfect character for plant life?

Can't get better than a tree. A wise tree. Whispy Woods is actually a fraud.

 

[Chandeelure]

If we need a Mario character to "represent plantlife" for whatever reason, have I got the perfect guy...

View attachment 142569
WAA.

I would prefer Petey Piranha tbh.

 

[DJ3DS]

By that logic, DK is over represented. We also have no plant based fighters in Smash Bros at all. What better to represent them both by a princess who is sporty, has flowers in her name, the appropriate powers and is popular even outside forums! I know people who have been clamouring for Daisy in Smash for a very very long time. We also have ZERO references to Mario Baseball, a series which Namco worked on, besides Daisy herself in Smash Tour.

You're right, we do need a character to rep Mario Baseball.

I vote King K. Rool.

 

[osby]

And the related "Zelda will only have Link, Zelda and Ganondorf; never characters that only appeared in just one game." (WHAT THE **** IS A SHEIK?!)

[On that topic, I'd want and could see Midna or Skull Kid getting a promotion.]

Zelda is technically Sheik. To be honest, I think the big thing keeping one-shot Zelda characters from Smash is "why X, and not Y?" It's hard to justify one's inclusion rather than others. I personally wouldn't object getting Midna or any other for that matter, but I can see why people are iffy at the idea.

It's also one of these virtual fan rules, like Pokemon should have max. 6 playable characters.

 

[Opossum]

For real though, "can represent plantlife from Mario games" just seems like people ran out of reasons Daisy would be a decent pick. It doesn't really mean anything. And by that logic, representing the Mario series's FUNGI seems far more important. S'up, Toad.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Also, if people consider Donkey Kong Country to be considered it's own series, then what about WarioWare? Mario Kart? Mario Tennis? Mario Party? Mario Golf?

Donkey Kong Country isn't a spinoff of Mario. If anything, both are spinoffs of arcade DK games.

So we're at Captain Toad again.

We sure cycle between a select few debates.

Rex & Pyra vs Elma
Decidueye vs Incenaroar vs Mimikyu vs hypothetical Gen 8
Fire Emblem Representation
Overall roster size

Pyra's clothes, clones and cuts are also pretty common topics. We sure do love beating dead horses.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Even though I think Link should stay close to what he already is, I don't think the "BotW was too early" argument works very well in this case. Based off the response BotW got at E3 2016, it didn't take a genius to figure out that this would be a ground-breaking Zelda game. Out of every game that wasn't released before development on Smash Switch officially started, I feel like BotW has the best chance to get the most out of this new Smash, be it as the form of new characters or a revamped Link/Zelda.

The transition from the iconic green vest and cap to the newer BotW look makes me think we're getting something much more important than a mere cosmetic change. Could be wrong, but I have a strong feeling that something big is happening.

My argument isn’t that BotW is too new to be represented (we already know it is). My argument is that its role in the game was probably decided before it became a smash hit.

Without the knowledge of how popular BotW would become, there’s no reason to overhaul Link’s classic moveset of items he’s had for 30 years in favor of something representing that one game specifically.

Honestly I think people are overestimating how different link is gonna be, I'm expecting new bombs that are detonatable, a new side special using one of the runes and a new grab. And breath of the wild was supposed to come out in 2015 anyway, Sakurai being informed and implementing stuff from it isn't out of the realm of possibility at all.

Pretty much this. I think the BotW designs will be the default of Link and Zelda, with the classic designs as alts, but I don’t think there will be a huge moveset overhaul.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Daisy is my favourite of the Mario princesses, but I don't think plant life in Mario is especially prominant enough to warrant a whole character. The most famous plant is what? Piranha Plants?

We got Petey who is literally a mutated one, Waluigi who is depicted with them on occasion, and Captain Toad/Toad who use potted ones in 3D World/Treasure Tracker. Daisy ironically has the least connection to the most prominant Mario plantlife out there.

 

[Opossum]

Pyra's clothes, clones and cuts are also pretty common topics. We sure do love beating dead horses.

To be fair, a lot of it can come down to people not getting into huge discussions about things they deem unlikely, so the pool of topics seems smaller than it would otherwise.

Like I could go on and on about how Code Name: S.T.E.A.M. could offer a cool playable character, stage, music, Assist Trophy, and over all aesthetic addition, but due to the fact that less people know about the topic, it likely wouldn't last as long as something more in the limelight, like Captain Toad's lack of jump or Pyra's lack of pants.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

To be fair, a lot of it can come down to people not getting into huge discussions about things they deem unlikely, so the pool of topics seems smaller than it would otherwise.

Like I could go on and on about how Code Name: S.T.E.A.M. could offer a cool playable character, stage, music, Assist Trophy, and over all aesthetic addition, but due to the fact that less people know about the topic, it likely wouldn't last as long as something more in the limelight, like Captain Toad's lack of jump or Pyra's lack of pants.

You mind sharing an Henry Fleming moveset idea?