Official Smash for Switch 2 - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Ivander]

I think what makes the "Fire Emblem characters into Alear" argument even worse is that, it doesn't matter if you are switching between Lyn, Edelgard and Sigurd with Alear, it's still 3 characters you can play as. Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard in Pokemon Trainer's slot doesn't suddenly make them only 1 character, there are still 10 playable Pokemon characters in Ultimate.
And if anything, people would probably be even more ticked off because not only does it mean Smash worked on 3/4 Fire Emblem characters over "their favorite character" and put them in Smash, but if any of the other Fire Emblem characters don't return, they will complain "Why couldn't you just keep those characters in instead of taking them out and adding 3 new ones?"

It feels hopeless to talk about anything positive about a Fire Emblem character that looks cool get in when it gets quickly overshadowed by people who have conditioned themselves to hate anything related to Fire Emblem.

 

[SharkLord]

I think what makes the "Fire Emblem characters into Alear" argument even worse is that, it doesn't matter if you are switching between Lyn, Edelgard and Sigurd with Alear, it's still 3 characters you can play as. Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard in Pokemon Trainer's slot doesn't suddenly make them only 1 character, there are still 10 playable Pokemon characters in Ultimate.
And if anything, people would probably be even more ticked off because not only does it mean Smash worked on 3/4 Fire Emblem characters over "their favorite character" and put them in Smash, but if any of the other Fire Emblem characters don't return, they will complain "Why couldn't you just keep those characters in instead of taking them out and adding 3 new ones?"

It feels hopeless to talk about anything positive about a Fire Emblem character that looks cool get in when it gets quickly overshadowed by people who have conditioned themselves to hate anything related to Fire Emblem.

Alternatively, you could have Alear work as a summoner... But then, each character is only used for a small handful of moves, and they won't get much time to shine. Byleth and the Relics but even worse. Or we could just have one character like Arsene and Joker... But the Emblem that's always front and center is Marth, who's already in Smash. Sigurd's the second-most prominent and he's not a fighter, but it'd still be a bit clunky.

Given Sakurai's comments on the matter, I think he'll want to revamp the FE lineup next game. Looking at how IntSys and Nintendo market their characters, the three usually pushed are Marth, Lyn and Ike. Given the games' importance to the series, we'll probably also have someone from Awakening (Most likely Lucina, given her clone status and her being pushed as the primary Awakening rep in most situations) and Three Houses (Realistically, they'll probably stick with Byleth). After that, Sakurai might want to hold off on new characters, but there's also a good chance we'll see whoever the newest main character is by the time Smash 6 is out.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I like Alear just fine and would probably like them even if they were the whole “huhuh what if lyn was their neutral b look guys its playable lyn” type of fighter that speculators want them to be somehow, but personally the best Alear would be one that leans on Emblem Marth to unapologetically feature Fire Emblem Engage’s gameplay mechanics without seeing them as a pawn to play slot politics with.

Problem with that is that Corrin and Mythra in Ultimate are already this kind of catch-all, relentless pursuit combo swordie and even Marth and Lucina have the potential to be that as well if they suck even slightly less in the next game. Flavor-wise, Emblem Marth tagging in for hits for an almost Ice Climbers-like death-by-a-thousand-cuts approach inspired by skills like Divine Speed and Potent might get that gameplay style across really well, but almost any swordie that’s sufficiently goated with the sauce can be a juggler. Don’t really need Alear (& Emblem Marth) for that.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

So what do you guys think of Alear?

For... extremely personal reasons that I would rather not share with a bunch of strangers on the Internet, I have grown very fond of Alear to the point of being one of my favorite characters and potentially my most wanted first party newcomer. Chances aren't looking good for them but I will ****ing ride or die on the possibility of them getting in until we see a full roster.

As for the moveset, people are either underselling their potential by just seeing them as another typical swordfighter or are drowning out anything they could potentially do by trying to cram every single Emblem into the moveset, with both directions being a disservice to both Alear as a character and Engage as a game. The latter in particular has the same vibes as people thinking each of Joker's individual moves would summon a different Persona because "Wild Card" when Sakurai's call was to instead stick to the one Persona Joker would always have in any playthrough; his own Persona. Basically, the same call Arc System Works did for Yu when making their own Persona 4 fighting game.

I believe simply sticking to just Emblem Marth, the starting Emblem and the one Alear is most attached to, is enough to make a convincingly unique and fun moveset, especially combined with Alear's swordfighting and martial art skills, the latter becoming the prominent gimmick of Alear in Heroes as they are the only person in that game to fight bare-handed without it being the result of a beast transformation. It makes them stick out, a lot.

 

[Guynamednelson]

“huhuh what if lyn was their neutral b look guys its playable lyn”

more like a whole lyn moveset but pepsiwoman has to stand in the background but oh well whatever it takes

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Meowscarada do have the perk of being the most popular evolutionary lines of their respective generations past that

The Fuecoco line seems to be popular from that I have seen although probably equal.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

The Fuecoco line seems to be popular from that I have seen although probably equal.

From what I recall, that line's popularity starts and ends with Fuecoco.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Given Sakurai's comments on the matter, I think he'll want to revamp the FE lineup next game. Looking at how IntSys and Nintendo market their characters, the three usually pushed are Marth, Lyn and Ike. Given the games' importance to the series, we'll probably also have someone from Awakening (Most likely Lucina, given her clone status and her being pushed as the primary Awakening rep in most situations) and Three Houses (Realistically, they'll probably stick with Byleth). After that, Sakurai might want to hold off on new characters, but there's also a good chance we'll see whoever the newest main character is by the time Smash 6 is out.

Honestly, if next game's FE lineup in base ends up being Marth, Ike, Robin (I still feel like Robin's unique characteristics will keep them around, though I do think Lucina is also pretty likely as clones go), Byleth, and newcomer Lyn?

That would be kind of insane to me lmao

 

[Dukefire]

So what do you guys think of Alear?

I would be fine with a little salt. However, the internet isn't going to take his/her appearance lightly.....as Byleth's reveal was negatively reacted for another FE chosen.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Rillaboom never caught on that much with Smash fans, not in the way the grass starters of the generations both before and after it did.

To be fair, it did dominate from before anyone knew what a Rillaboom was (I remember the days of Baboom) up until Goh happened in the anime and started with Scorbunny. Then people swapped to Cinderace as the "SHILL" pick.

 

[fogbadge]

From what I recall, that line's popularity starts and ends with Fuecoco.

well then let's put fuecoco in smash

 

[Noipoi]

From what I recall, that line's popularity starts and ends with Fuecoco.

Skeledirge isn’t super popular, but people seem to like it well enough. Mainly for being the first fully quadrupedal starter in years, and for being a fat ****.

I really like it, at least

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Honestly, if next game's FE lineup in base ends up being Marth, Ike, Robin (I still feel like Robin's unique characteristics will keep them around, though I do think Lucina is also pretty likely as clones go), Byleth, and newcomer Lyn?

Lucina is likely to stay since echo fighters as a concept will probably be in Smash 6 and Marth isn't going anywhere. I agree that Lyn is the most likely non-Alear option like how she is used alongside Ike and Marth in Nintendo Today.

Edelgard is another option but I feel like the reason she wasn't picked is because the Three Houses lords are generally represented together and to avoid bias. Its probably why Byleth was the Three Houses rep in Smash and base Engage.

 

[SharkLord]

Honestly, if next game's FE lineup in base ends up being Marth, Ike, Robin (I still feel like Robin's unique characteristics will keep them around, though I do think Lucina is also pretty likely as clones go), Byleth, and newcomer Lyn?

That would be kind of insane to me lmao

Yeah, I think Robin has a good case to keep them around, and if there's enough room I'd keep them too. It's just that I'm not sure how large the next game's roster will be, so if it turns out roster space is a little tight I feel like an Echo (Or at least a semiclone, if they feel like decloning her a bit) would be less instensive than a whole fifth fighter. At least, that's how it ended up with my own roster I've been putting together

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Edelgard is another option but I feel like the reason she wasn't picked is because the Three Houses lords are generally represented together and to avoid bias. Its probably why Byleth was the Three Houses rep in Smash and base Engage.

Or Sakurai thought featuring all three weapons in one fighter was more interesting than just the axe by itself rather than any "Edelgard can't be represented over Claude and Dimitri" reason.

 

[Oracle Link]

an alright character but pretty bland over all. but Engage's writing was pretty basic anyway. I don't think I'd be annoyed by their inclusion, I think I'm over the number of FE characters, but unless the moveset is very exciting I doubt I'd play as them that much.

I mean thats just modern noa in a nutshell!
Cant have you mention gender or anything close to it!
Instead cram 20 jokes into every scene!
And btw that statement above is does not mean i support certain parties and presidents!
I am left or center left i just hate messing with media in anyway!

On a diffrent note i guess my gut feeling was right! Creepers arent cute perse but god can they be adorable with some small tweaks

As i saw this lovely lil guy i needed him! Thanks to his simplicity and blockiness hes a joy to carry arround!

 

[SharkLord]

Lucina is likely to stay since echo fighters as a concept will probably be in Smash 6 and Marth isn't going anywhere. I agree that Lyn is the most likely non-Alear option like how she is used alongside Ike and Marth in Nintendo Today.

Edelgard is another option but I feel like the reason she wasn't picked is because the Three Houses lords are generally represented together and to avoid bias. Its probably why Byleth was the Three Houses rep in Smash and base Engage.

Or Sakurai thought featuring all three weapons in one fighter was more interesting than just the axe by itself rather than any "Edelgard can't be represented over Claude and Dimitri" reason.

There's also the fact that he was working on Byleth before Three Houses was even out, so there wasn't any way to gauge popularity before making a decision.

That said, it is interesting that the 1/7 scale figures IntSys has been personally rolling out - Which mainly consist of the most popular Lords - Had Byleth fairly early on and only got to Dmitri and Edelgard a couple years later, on top of them being the base game Emblem in Engage. The house leaders are still prominently featured in marketing, but it seems like overall, Byleth is still the "default" face used when they can only fit one character.

 

[RodNutTakin]

TBH I would've been okay with Rillaboom since a different take on Donkey Kong's archetype would've been more interesting than another humanoid Pokemon

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Sakurai thought featuring all three weapons in one fighter was more interesting than just the axe by itself rather than any "Edelgard can't be represented over Claude and Dimitri" reason.

At least it makes sense for Byleth specifically because Three Houses is one of the few Fire Emblem games where most weapon types can be used in most classes with the exception of either Magic and Brawling being unavailable in a few classes.

If had to change something then I would have either make their Final Smash a Gambit or use Divine Pulse in the Final Smash which is weirdly missing their moveset.

 

[fogbadge]

I mean thats just modern noa in a nutshell!
Cant have you mention gender or anything close to it!
Instead cram 20 jokes into every scene!
And btw that statement above is does not mean i support certain parties and presidents!
I am left or center left i just hate messing with media in anyway!

On a diffrent note i guess my gut feeling was right! Creepers arent cute perse but god can they be adorable with some small tweaks
View attachment 402549
As i saw this lovely lil guy i needed him! Thanks to his simplicity and blockiness hes a joy to carry arround!

that’s your take away from what I said?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I mean thats just modern noa in a nutshell!
Cant have you mention gender or anything close to it!
Instead cram 20 jokes into every scene!
And btw that statement above is does not mean i support certain parties and presidents!
I am left or center left i just hate messing with media in anyway!

You keep saying things like this...

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I mean thats just modern noa in a nutshell!
Cant have you mention gender or anything close to it!
Instead cram 20 jokes into every scene!

Someone hasn't played the TTYD remake, I see

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I mean thats just modern noa in a nutshell!
Cant have you mention gender or anything close to it!

Genuinely no idea which game this is referring to recently, but convo like this always makes me think about how Xenoblade 3 has a non-binary character in Juniper and Splatoon's got a pretty-much-all-but-confirmed lesbian power couple in Pearl and Marina lol

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Genuinely no idea which game this is referring to recently, but convo like this always makes me think about how Xenoblade 3 has a non-binary character in Juniper and Splatoon's got a pretty-much-all-but-confirmed lesbian power couple in Pearl and Marina lol

Splatoon also has a non-binary character with Acht. And like I implied, TTYD remake actually undoing the original English localization's decision of completely rewriting Vivian's character, allowing her to retain her transgender aspects that literally every other language had except English, iirc.

Not saying NoA is perfect because they sure aren't (their localization of Three Houses is a pretty good example) but to say they always replace serious matters with "20 jokes per scene" is exaggerating.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

When do you think Smash 6 will come out?

 

[Perkilator]

When do you think Smash 6 will come out?

Probably after Kirby Air Riders (hopefully not too long after).

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

When do you think Smash 6 will come out?

If Sakurai directs it, I can't see it sooner than probably mid 2028.

If he doesn't, possibly near the end of 2026 or early 2027.

 

[NintenRob]

Splatoon also has a non-binary character with Acht. And like I implied, TTYD remake actually undoing the original English localization's decision of completely rewriting Vivian's character, allowing her to retain her transgender aspects that literally every other language had except English, iirc.

Not saying NoA is perfect because they sure aren't (their localization of Three Houses is a pretty good example) but to say they always replace serious matters with "20 jokes per scene" is exaggerating.

What did they do to Three Houses?

 

[Laniv]

So what do you guys think of Alear?

Dang looking at everyone else's responses I feel bad for saying I'm not terribly excited by the concept of Alear in Smash

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

What did they do to Three Houses?

To put it simply, implications of same-sex relationships that don't involve Byleth were either scrapped or toned down.

It's made more notable with Warriors Three Hopes, which was localized by 8-4, actually keeping those implications.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

When do you think Smash 6 will come out?

I assume 2028 if Sakurai is working on it. They are probably almost done with Kirby Air Riders. There could be free DLC but that likely just needs supervision from Sakurai.

2026 if Sakurai is just a producer or supervisor.

 

[DarthEnderX]

The Black Shadow school of the Smash community using an innocent character as a template to force their roster agenda onto... What a waste...

Black Shadow would be grateful to get Ganondorf's hand-me-downs. He has zero shot otherwise.

When do you think Smash 6 will come out?

On the Switch 3.

I think Smash Ultimate S2E will come out in the next year or so.

 

[Oracle Link]

that’s your take away from what I said?

Splatoon also has a non-binary character with Acht. And like I implied, TTYD remake actually undoing the original English localization's decision of completely rewriting Vivian's character, allowing her to retain her transgender aspects that literally every other language had except English, iirc.

Not saying NoA is perfect because they sure aren't (their localization of Three Houses is a pretty good example) but to say they always replace serious matters with "20 jokes per scene" is exaggerating.

Genuinely no idea which game this is referring to recently, but convo like this always makes me think about how Xenoblade 3 has a non-binary character in Juniper and Splatoon's got a pretty-much-all-but-confirmed lesbian power couple in Pearl and Marina lol

Watch this vid!

Also speaking of the vivian situation no matter how you slice it the english script for the remake wasnt the original intention either as:
Og Japanese (vague cause of the time probably)
made direct or not mentioned depending on language version (german for example did the same thing as the english version)
In the new japanese new dialouge was written to make vivian more explicity trans (eventho she did always call herself a girl so yeah that means she was always trans or something similar atleast)

But then the english version heavily rewrote The already slightly rewritten japanese script even further to remove words like Crazy (used as a descriptor) or cleaning in reffrence to a mother

Most things falling into any genderroles were removed in the english versions of ttyd and engage for example which i mean is stupid right there nothing wrong with dialouge mentioning a girl wants to Look pretty f.E
Noa does an intentionally awful job translating nintendo games!

 

[Thegameandwatch]

On the Switch 3.

I think Smash Ultimate S2E will come out in the next year or so.

I think it's fine but I would rather have a new game. Especially since it will probably be a longer gap then Mario Kart 8 to World if Smash 6 releases on the console after the Switch 2.

Also I think the next console after the Switch 2 will be completely different but probably still a hybrid.

 

[Louie G.]

Black Shadow would be grateful to get Ganondorf's hand-me-downs. He has zero shot otherwise.

He has zero shot period, the Ganondorf thing is not happening either.

I never really suggested otherwise, I still think it's lame that's the only reason people talk about F-Zero characters so I took a pot shot.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

Another question who do you think next games like, If you buy the game early enough it’s free (Mewtwo/Piranha Plant) character will be? If there is one.

 

[Dukefire]

Speaking of Kirby Air Riders, when do you think the game will be released?

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

Speaking of Kirby Air Riders, when do you think the game will be released?
View attachment 402553

They said this year probably October or November.

 

[SharkLord]

To put it simply, implications of same-sex relationships that don't involve Byleth were either scrapped or toned down.

It's made more notable with Warriors Three Hopes, which was localized by 8-4, actually keeping those implications.

If I remember correctly, 8-4 are the guys who have actually good localizations and Nintendo Treehouse are the ones who have issues. I believe 8-4 also did Awakening and a couple others, but I'm drawing a blank on the rest.

He has zero shot period, the Ganondorf thing is not happening either.

I never really suggested otherwise, I still think it's lame that's the only reason people talk about F-Zero characters so I took a pot shot.

I haven't played F-Zero but I really like the GX soundtrack and I'd take any chance to get those songs in Smash.

To tie back to Smash, to all the F-Zero fans on the boards, who would you want from the series in Smash?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Watch this vid!

Being fair, a lot of these dialogue changes are either so minor they don't matter, were toning down on body shaming (sometimes with a funnier joke like Bowser ordering one of his troops to keep doing sit-ups until their hammer has abs instead of just calling them fat) or poking fun at mental illnesses which... weren't really explored all that much in the early 2000s compared to nowadays. Not all changes are bad, Oracle.

Also speaking of the vivian situation no matter how you slice it the english script for the remake wasnt the original intention either as:
Og Japanese (vague cause of the time probably)
made direct or not mentioned depending on language version (german for example did the same thing as the english version)
In the new japanese new dialouge was written to make vivian more explicity trans (eventho she did always call herself a girl so yeah that means she was always trans or something similar atleast)

The original Japanese script was subtle about Vivian being trans but like... the pieces were all there.

Sure, the remake is louder about it but it was still pretty clear in the OG. If anything, it actually spoiled it before the reveal thanks to Goombella's Tattle, which the remake changed by, yes, removing allusions to gender like you said, but since that was to make sure it wouldn't be spoiled early, how is it a bad change? How is not being spoiled ahead of time a bad change?

cleaning in reffrence to a mother

Which is a very outdated joke anyway.