Official Smash for Switch 2 - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Thegameandwatch]

I don't know what the direction of Paper Mario is doing to be, but a spin-off from it focused on Bowser, Bowser Jr, and Kamek with the gameplay of Super Paper Mario? Not only could that be a fun game, but one could also probably mine some decent new move ideas for the former two and likely a full blown moveset for the latter.

Surprised at this point that Bowser doesn't have his own game although at least Bowser's Inside Story exists.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Mario Kart 7 was surprise dropped onto the Nintendo Music app.

 

[smashkirby]

Also keep the orchestra. Smash Bros is meant to be a grand ceremony. Let it sound like it too unless you change to something crazy like hard rock, metal or something like an anime opening.

I would KILL and SLAUGHTER for Smash Opening sung by Hironbu Kagayama. Fighting Stars for Jump Stars always felt better as Smash theme than the former

My GOD, what I wouldn't give for Smash Bros. to get a Fighting Stars-type of intro. Bonus points if Nintendo manages to get Kageyama-san himself to sing said intro.

All of that being said though, I would prefer Smash otherwise keeps the orchestra.

I pretty much agree with those thoughts. Thing is as if being numerous in number was not enough, less popular or well known characters are often not rated high in terms of chances of getting in. With that, and other factors to consider, you never know when a less popular character will get in or who it will be.

I do prefer people to not get bullied for their wants, no matter who it may be. A popular character does not get in over a less popular character? There is always DLC or the next game. There does not have to be much worry or stress if one character wanted is not in the game.

I mean... look at me. Lord knows I'd love for Smash to get more and more 1st parties, well-known and obscure alike. What's more, I feel like while I understand Nintendo is a business first and foremost, I feel like Smash is kind of limiting itself in terms of 1st party speculation.

Or maybe the next Smash game's main theme could sound something like this?

As I've said, Hironobu Kageyama is absolutely my first pick to sing a new Smash Bros. theme. Bonus points if it's something like Fighting Stars or The Biggest Fight.

Honestly, A Switch 2 edition with Smash Run returning would be absolutely phenomenal. This is still the roster where everyone is here, it'd be amazing to have everyone beating up enemies and exploring the new map.

THIS right here. THIS would increase my playtime of Smash Ultimate by at least 1000 hours. ESPECIALLY considering how Everyone Is Still There...

 

[DarthEnderX]

I would KILL and SLAUGHTER for Smash Opening sung by Hironbu Kagayama.

I'd kill for a Smash opening sung by JAM Project.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I'd kill for a Smash opening sung by JAM Project.

As we all know Jam project is the best group to get to make music for a crossover game.

 

[ninjahmos]

I'd love a Smash opening theme that sounded similar to this song.

 

[DarthEnderX]

As we all know Jam project is the best group to get to make music for a crossover game.

Cause of all the SRWs?

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Cause of all the SRWs?

They make the final boss themes of all the games. All of which are great.

 

[HyperSomari64]

this is off-topic, but why are there 144 guests on this thread?

Edit: they are 163 now!? man, how many bots are watching the thread?

Edit 2: 180!?

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

this is off-topic, but why are there 144 guests on this thread?

I think it's appropriate this gif is posted whenever this topic comes up.

 

[SharkLord]

this is off-topic, but why are there 144 guests on this thread?

Edit: they are 163 now!? man, how many bots are watching the thread?

Edit 2: 180!?

We know the Switch 2 exists and I guess everyone's digging for just a hint of anything Smash related now.

By the way, to all 273 guests (As of writing) on this thread, we know you're here. We're watching you

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Are they even people? I've grown pretty cynical in a world of advanced AI so I'm not denying the possibility of bots

But hey, if these bots wanna poison their database with our nonsense, be my guest

 

[Gengar84]

Are they even people? I've grown pretty cynical in a world of advanced AI so I'm not denying the possibility of bots

But hey, if these bots wanna poison their database with our nonsense, be my guest

My father falls for all those AI generated YouTube videos. He completely believes they’re all real no matter how many times I try to tell him they’re AI generated and all made up. I use AI myself by using Char GPT to help brainstorm ideas but at least I can tell when it’s hallucinating and know not to take anything it says as 100% confirmation of anything.

On a more hopeful note, the new TMNT Fortnite skins are looking awesome. I wish they’d make an actual TMNT game with models and a tons like this. I’m really into the IDW comics so this is pretty much perfect. I’m definitely making Ultimate mods with these if i ever get back to modding Smash. I’m probably going to retexture Rocksteady (the rhino) a bit to give him camo pants and a black tank top like his Playmates toy but Casey and Bebop are perfect already.

As much as people hate on Fortnite, at least it’s given us some great character models. I love their Sub-Zero as well. It’s got a vaguely similar style to Smash so direct model swaps actually look pretty natural in Ultimate.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Fighter Review: #02 Donkey Kong
TLDR: Donkey Kong is a very strong, and kinda goofy ape with an intense love of bananas. Super Smash Bros. focuses on his more primal nature, which I think is a mistake, as it lowers his appeal by quite a bit. I don’t think he should be portrayed as being super angry here, as I think he’s one of the characters who would actually have a lot of fun in a competition like Smash. Moveset wise, nothing here is super strange, but it could do with a move involving a barrel to spice things up, and Headbutt in particular is a very boring, very situational move, so it gets my vote for replacement. I also think adding the jump canceling property to his roll would do a lot to help bring his movement closer to how it is in the Donkey Kong Country series, and add a very unique feel to it compared to the rest of the roster.

Overall I think his implementation is better than Mario’s, but there are still some major ways to improve him, so I also give him a B.

Spoiler: The Source Material

Donkey Kong started out as a giant ape that kidnaped a woman, climbed a bunch of scaffolding, and threw barrels and springs at the man trying to rescue her. Since Donkey Kong Country, the character we’ve come to know as Donkey Kong is the grandson of the original (though they might be retconning in that he’s just the son which brings some questions about Donkey Kong Jr.’s cannonicity but I digress).

Donkey Kong is often portrayed as a large ape who is very strong, kinda dumb, and loves bananas so much he hoards them like a dragon. His outings where he’s the protagonist tend to be kind of a parallel to the Super Mario series. Donkey Kong Country is pretty much Super Mario Bros., but with a slightly more grounded setting and a focus on providing players with a challenge, and his new game, Donkey Kong Bonanza, appears to be Super Mario Odyssey with new mechanics that allow for even more free form movement, exploration, and cheezing everything.

Donkey Kong is also often associated with music and barrels, with a couple of spin-off titles being centered around a bongo controller, whistling a tune being a mechanic in Donkey Kong Bonanza, and the Donkey Kong Country series having barrels everywhere as weapons to throw and methods of locomotion.

When playing as him, a lot of emphasis is placed on Donkey Kong being strong as well as agile. His movement is fluid due to his mobility tools and how they interact with each other and the levels, but he also is constantly pulling off feats like ripping structures out of the ground, launching enemies into the stratosphere, and even punching the moon out of orbit.

For specific abilities, his most iconic one is the roll. It gives him a burst of movement, defeats enemies that he crashed into, and is even jump cancelable, allowing Donkey Kong to fling himself farther than with just a normal jump. He also has the hand slap, which actually debuted in Super Smash Bros., but is later used in Donkey Kong Country Returns to stun enemies near him, flip certain platforms to enter bonus rooms, or trigger platforms and set pieces.

A successful adaptation of Donkey Kong should highlight both the fluidity of his movement, and the raw power he possesses. Personality wise, he should be a somewhat cheeky character that’s very confident in their strength, showing off just how cool he can be, but also allowing him to be the goofy character he tends to also be.

Spoiler: In Smash

Donkey Kong is Super Smash Bros.’s prime example of a grappler. He has long limbs that give him a lot of range, a large amount of power behind his individual hits, and a unique throw that allows him to pick up and carry his opponents around. To balance this, Donkey Kong can sometimes struggle to land hits in neutral, as his frame data is relatively poor across the board, and in older games, his mobility was quite bad as well. Aside from his special throw, Donkey Kong is well known for having four moves in his kit that meteor smash, giving him many ways to dunk his opponents. Also, as a small detail, Donkey Kong is the only character able to pick up heavy items such as barrels without their weight impeding his movement.

In terms of personality, Donkey Kong appears to be a fusion of his appearance in Donkey Kong, and the original Donkey Kong Country trilogy. His wild temperament from the first game gives him an imposing presence while the more comedic elements from his Donkey Kong Country appearance to keep him from seeming villainous. A decent amount of his characterization goes to Donkey Kong as an ape, which can also make him less anthropomorphic than in his home series.

Spoiler: Thoughts

Like with Mario, my main problem with Donkey Kong is that his personality is off from how he’s portrayed in his home series. I get the references to Donkey Kong and the older games where he had monkey noises, but they seem to be used at the expense of how he’s currently portrayed, which can make him seem like his character is reduced to just being an ape sometimes. I also kind of feel like the monkey noises will be incompatible with his new design so the next game is likely to have to voice act him at the very least.

It's not just the lack of voice acting though, it’s also little things like him having a face of pure rage during his most powerful attacks, which is kinda in line with how he is in Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, but that game was focused on making the character into a force of nature, which isn’t quite the vibe he has anywhere else. Given how he acts in other games, I think a more mischievous expression makes more sense here. Also, the taunt where he beats his chest should be less of a posturing gesture and more of a joyful cry to hype himself up.

Moveset wise, my only problem is with Headbutt. It’s boring and only situationally useful. If they replace it with something else it would probably be an upgrade. One thing that’s commonly said is due to his association with barrels, he should probably have a move that involves one, and I agree, though I’m not picky on how this is done. I’ve seen (and made) suggestions like a projectile where he rolls a barrel on the floor, a command grab where he stuffs opponents into a barrel, or an up special where he launches out of a barrel cannon, and I’d be happy with any of these ideas. I’ve also seen criticism of Giant Punch, as it is just a big punch, and I guess I wouldn’t be too sad if it was replaced, but I do think it fits the character, as it shows off his raw power, is unique as chargeable melee attacks are quite rare, and so satisfying to hit the fully charged version, so I personally quite like it.

I also think the fluidity of his movement could use some work. There is only so much you can do here because a character like him shouldn’t be speeding around the stage, but I think adding the jump canceling ability to his roll would help a lot. I’m not sure allowing him to fling himself across the stage with a roll jump would be balanced, but I do think it would be interesting if they made it work similar to how it does in Donkey Kong Country returns where you can roll off ledges and jump cancel the roll in midair. This could allow Donkey Kong to mixup his movement, and would be a boon to his edge guarding ability. If nothing else, I think the ability to jump cancel his roll would allow for it to become a more central part of his gameplan with it setting up combos at low percents and just feeling better to use in general.

Also, this is more of a personal thing, but I find it so weird that Cargo Throw is forward throw and not down throw. I feel like it would be more intuitive as a down throw, especially since it’s almost universally a combo throw at this point.

All things considered; I think Donkey Kong is mostly complete. There’s a tweak I’d make here or there, but most of his actual problems are audio/visual. This should be a character in his element, ready to bust some heads, toss people around like ragdolls, and react humorously when things go wrong. For the most part though, his personality is just…being an ape. A move involving a barrel wouldn’t go amiss here either, whatever form it would take.

Spoiler: Rankings

S
A
B
C
F

 

[Gengar84]

Fighter Review: #02 Donkey Kong
TLDR: Donkey Kong is a very strong, and kinda goofy ape with an intense love of bananas. Super Smash Bros. focuses on his more primal nature, which I think is a mistake, as it lowers his appeal by quite a bit. I don’t think he should be portrayed as being super angry here, as I think he’s one of the characters who would actually have a lot of fun in a competition like Smash. Moveset wise, nothing here is super strange, but it could do with a move involving a barrel to spice things up, and Headbutt in particular is a very boring, very situational move, so it gets my vote for replacement. I also think adding the jump canceling property to his roll would do a lot to help bring his movement closer to how it is in the Donkey Kong Country series, and add a very unique feel to it compared to the rest of the roster.

Overall I think his implementation is better than Mario’s, but there are still some major ways to improve him, so I also give him a B.

Spoiler: The Source Material

Donkey Kong started out as a giant ape that kidnaped a woman, climbed a bunch of scaffolding, and threw barrels and springs at the man trying to rescue her. Since Donkey Kong Country, the character we’ve come to know as Donkey Kong is the grandson of the original (though they might be retconning in that he’s just the son which brings some questions about Donkey Kong Jr.’s cannonicity but I digress).

Donkey Kong is often portrayed as a large ape who is very strong, kinda dumb, and loves bananas so much he hoards them like a dragon. His outings where he’s the protagonist tend to be kind of a parallel to the Super Mario series. Donkey Kong Country is pretty much Super Mario Bros., but with a slightly more grounded setting and a focus on providing players with a challenge, and his new game, Donkey Kong Bonanza, appears to be Super Mario Odyssey with new mechanics that allow for even more free form movement, exploration, and cheezing everything.

Donkey Kong is also often associated with music and barrels, with a couple of spin-off titles being centered around a bongo controller, whistling a tune being a mechanic in Donkey Kong Bonanza, and the Donkey Kong Country series having barrels everywhere as weapons to throw and methods of locomotion.

When playing as him, a lot of emphasis is placed on Donkey Kong being strong as well as agile. His movement is fluid due to his mobility tools and how they interact with each other and the levels, but he also is constantly pulling off feats like ripping structures out of the ground, launching enemies into the stratosphere, and even punching the moon out of orbit.

For specific abilities, his most iconic one is the roll. It gives him a burst of movement, defeats enemies that he crashed into, and is even jump cancelable, allowing Donkey Kong to fling himself farther than with just a normal jump. He also has the hand slap, which actually debuted in Super Smash Bros., but is later used in Donkey Kong Country Returns to stun enemies near him, flip certain platforms to enter bonus rooms, or trigger platforms and set pieces.

A successful adaptation of Donkey Kong should highlight both the fluidity of his movement, and the raw power he possesses. Personality wise, he should be a somewhat cheeky character that’s very confident in their strength, showing off just how cool he can be, but also allowing him to be the goofy character he tends to also be.

Spoiler: In Smash

Donkey Kong is Super Smash Bros.’s prime example of a grappler. He has long limbs that give him a lot of range, a large amount of power behind his individual hits, and a unique throw that allows him to pick up and carry his opponents around. To balance this, Donkey Kong can sometimes struggle to land hits in neutral, as his frame data is relatively poor across the board, and in older games, his mobility was quite bad as well. Aside from his special throw, Donkey Kong is well known for having four moves in his kit that meteor smash, giving him many ways to dunk his opponents. Also, as a small detail, Donkey Kong is the only character able to pick up heavy items such as barrels without their weight impeding his movement.

In terms of personality, Donkey Kong appears to be a fusion of his appearance in Donkey Kong, and the original Donkey Kong Country trilogy. His wild temperament from the first game gives him an imposing presence while the more comedic elements from his Donkey Kong Country appearance to keep him from seeming villainous. A decent amount of his characterization goes to Donkey Kong as an ape, which can also make him less anthropomorphic than in his home series.

Spoiler: Thoughts

Like with Mario, my main problem with Donkey Kong is that his personality is off from how he’s portrayed in his home series. I get the references to Donkey Kong and the older games where he had monkey noises, but they seem to be used at the expense of how he’s currently portrayed, which can make him seem like his character is reduced to just being an ape sometimes. I also kind of feel like the monkey noises will be incompatible with his new design so the next game is likely to have to voice act him at the very least.

It's not just the lack of voice acting though, it’s also little things like him having a face of pure rage during his most powerful attacks, which is kinda in line with how he is in Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, but that game was focused on making the character into a force of nature, which isn’t quite the vibe he has anywhere else. Given how he acts in other games, I think a more mischievous expression makes more sense here. Also, the taunt where he beats his chest should be less of a posturing gesture and more of a joyful cry to hype himself up.

Moveset wise, my only problem is with Headbutt. It’s boring and only situationally useful. If they replace it with something else it would probably be an upgrade. One thing that’s commonly said is due to his association with barrels, he should probably have a move that involves one, and I agree, though I’m not picky on how this is done. I’ve seen (and made) suggestions like a projectile where he rolls a barrel on the floor, a command grab where he stuffs opponents into a barrel, or an up special where he launches out of a barrel cannon, and I’d be happy with any of these ideas. I’ve also seen criticism of Giant Punch, as it is just a big punch, and I guess I wouldn’t be too sad if it was replaced, but I do think it fits the character, as it shows off his raw power, is unique as chargeable melee attacks are quite rare, and so satisfying to hit the fully charged version, so I personally quite like it.

I also think the fluidity of his movement could use some work. There is only so much you can do here because a character like him shouldn’t be speeding around the stage, but I think adding the jump canceling ability to his roll would help a lot. I’m not sure allowing him to fling himself across the stage with a roll jump would be balanced, but I do think it would be interesting if they made it work similar to how it does in Donkey Kong Country returns where you can roll off ledges and jump cancel the roll in midair. This could allow Donkey Kong to mixup his movement, and would be a boon to his edge guarding ability. If nothing else, I think the ability to jump cancel his roll would allow for it to become a more central part of his gameplan with it setting up combos at low percents and just feeling better to use in general.

Also, this is more of a personal thing, but I find it so weird that Cargo Throw is forward throw and not down throw. I feel like it would be more intuitive as a down throw, especially since it’s almost universally a combo throw at this point.

All things considered; I think Donkey Kong is mostly complete. There’s a tweak I’d make here or there, but most of his actual problems are audio/visual. This should be a character in his element, ready to bust some heads, toss people around like ragdolls, and react humorously when things go wrong. For the most part though, his personality is just…being an ape. A move involving a barrel wouldn’t go amiss here either, whatever form it would take.

Spoiler: Rankings

S
A
B
C
F

I still can’t believe it took until Smash 4 to give DK his roll for his dash attack. Otherwise, I don’t really have any complaints with his moveset. His recovery is a bit weird and I might replace it with a barrel cannon but other than that, I’m pretty happy with it.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Are they even people? I've grown pretty cynical in a world of advanced AI so I'm not denying the possibility of bots

Probably majority bots with some actual people checking because of Smash speculation.

The one advantage here is the fact that speculation is all in one place compared to sites like Reddit where it’s new posts each time and it being restricted.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I still can’t believe it took until Smash 4 to give DK his roll for his dash attack.

Yeah between that and the voice thing I kinda wonder if DK is like Bowser in that Sakurai is kind of reluctant to use his modern incarnation.

Even then though the roll is a pretty classic DK thing so I dunno what was up with that.

 

[Gengar84]

Yeah between that and the voice thing I kinda wonder if DK is like Bowser in that Sakurai is kind of reluctant to use his modern incarnation.

Even then though the roll is a pretty classic DK thing so I dunno what was up with that.

I’m in the minority in that I don’t mind his Smash voice. Most of my DK nostalgia comes from the SNES DKC games and Mario Kart 64, both of which were before he had his more human like voice. But yeah, I have no idea what they were thinking not giving him his roll for so long. It’s one of his main attacks that makes him stand out.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I still can’t believe it took until Smash 4 to give DK his roll for his dash attack. Otherwise, I don’t really have any complaints with his moveset. His recovery is a bit weird and I might replace it with a barrel cannon but other than that, I’m pretty happy with it.

My guess is Sakurai already had a vision for him and didn't really have much feedback towards it till Bandai-Namco joined up. He didn't have an idea of how to make Pac-Man work well in his mind during Brawl either(which is when Miyamoto requested him). On the other hand, Bowser's changes reflect his nature within the regular Super Mario showings, so there could be more than one reason for it. I don't remember what games DK had before 4 around the development period, though.

...I won't lie that I liked his running kick too. It was fun. Both work, though, as they're neat moves in their own unique way~

 

[Gengar84]

My guess is Sakurai already had a vision for him and didn't really have much feedback towards it till Bandai-Namco joined up. He didn't have an idea of how to make Pac-Man work well in his mind during Brawl either(which is when Miyamoto requested him). On the other hand, Bowser's changes reflect his nature within the regular Super Mario showings, so there could be more than one reason for it. I don't remember what games DK had before 4 around the development period, though.

...I won't lie that I liked his running kick too. It was fun. Both work, though, as they're neat moves in their own unique way~

Yeah, there was nothing really wrong with his running kick as a move, I just have a preference for source game accuracy rather than creating new attacks if they already have a good option to pull from.

 

[CosmicEternity44]

I mean... look at me. Lord knows I'd love for Smash to get more and more 1st parties, well-known and obscure alike. What's more, I feel like while I understand Nintendo is a business first and foremost, I feel like Smash is kind of limiting itself in terms of 1st party speculation.

I can understand that, and I think I do agree. Still, those who may bully others about lesser known characters, what they don’t know, and I am sure this was talked about before, is that the roster is predetermined in advance, so no slots are really taken up by lesser known or well known characters, really. I mean, just because characters are revealed over time does not mean there are slots for characters.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Oh no...

This isn't a good omen.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Oh no...

This isn't a good omen.

Wow they didn't even wait to see how well the price hike worked before following suit. Not super surprised though, just disappointed.

 

[Dukefire]

Oh no...

This isn't a good omen.

Well, this makes it harder to grab a physical copy in the future....

 

[fogbadge]

Oh no...

This isn't a good omen.

figures

 

[DarthEnderX]

Wow they didn't even wait to see how well the price hike worked before following suit.

I mean, they kinda did. We saw how the Switch 2's preorders went.

 

[Oracle Link]

Are they even people? I've grown pretty cynical in a world of advanced AI so I'm not denying the possibility of bots

But hey, if these bots wanna poison their database with our nonsense, be my guest

Their gonna say Links awakening/Toy Link is the most requested Smash Character of my posts alone!

 

[ninjahmos]

Oh no...

This isn't a good omen.

Ah ****, here we go again.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I’m glad I already got all 3 consoles before this all went down. Never in my life would I have expected me getting the Series X and PS5 for 499.99 being the cheapest they’ll ever be though what a wild time to be alive.

 

[Shinuto]

Thank god the Xbox consoles have nothing I care about I cant get on PS5 or Switch.

 

[Sucumbio]

I skipped PS4 and 5... Xbox series S and Switch (I have 2 actually) all I need.

 

[Ivander]

I have a PS5, a Switch and a PC. And I've managed to get my Switch 2 pre-ordered. They should last me for a long time.

 

[CosmicEternity44]

I skipped PS4 and 5... Xbox series S and Switch (I have 2 actually) all I need.

I am going to be honest; I must say, your sense of what you personally need is to be admired. I do like it overall.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Poor, naive SMAASH! Puppy. Thinking he can just buy a Switch 2 on release instead of preordering it the nanosecond the listings go online.


Yeah I don't think I'll be getting a Switch 2 anytime soon.

 

[Perkilator]

I used to have a PS4 as my primary console, along with a bunch of old consoles. I eventually sold it two years ago, and the rest of my game stuff went to a thrift store as donations. Right now, all I have is my two Switches (regular and Lite) and Steam for gaming. I’m planning to save up so I can buy a Switch 2 (hopefully the Mario Kart Bundle) during the holidays.

 

[Laniv]

Oh no...

This isn't a good omen.

Dear God we're going to see $700 consoles next gen aren't we

 

[ninjahmos]

I have a PS5 and a Switch.

Unless it somehow ends up as a Christmas gift (or I get a job and a bank account and start saving up) I don't think I'm gonna get the Switch 2 anytime soon either.

 

[CosmicEternity44]

I have a PS5 and a Switch, and will soon be getting a Switch 2. I think those will be all I need.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Dear God we're going to see $700 consoles next gen aren't we

The PS3 was ahead of it's time.

 

[Gengar84]

I have a PS5 and a Switch.

Unless it somehow ends up as a Christmas gift (or I get a job and a bank account and start saving up) I don't think I'm gonna get the Switch 2 anytime soon either.

I passed on PS5. I bought every PlayStation before it but it never really got enough exclusives for me to drop my PS4 for it. I did preorder Switch 2 because my brother really wanted it. Thank god I have third party pro controllers that work well so far. I wouldn’t want to pay for new controllers.