Smash Bros. speculation that grinds your gears (BE CIVIL)

[SharkLord]

Ding ding, we have a winner! It was Monster Hunter avatar

I suppose this kinda counts as a necropost, given it's been a couple days, but recent gameplay footage for Wilds show us that the player Hunter actually speaks and interacts with people in cutscenes, which would likely put them roughly on level with Robin or Corrin; You can customize them freely, but still have a set character and dialogue.

So in the end? It doesn't even matter.

Probably. Maybe. We should probably wait for the game to release to make a final call. But still, if there was an issue with Avatars (Which there really isn't), that would very likely be solved as of Wilds

 

[Lenidem]

Piranha Plant being treated as the worst thing to happen is a bit depressive. It's honestly really repetitive and unfun. It's annoying to me now.

Well, people who dislike PP's inclusion don't express their opinion for "fun".

 

[Veca Gorebyss]

•


there's been a long desire for ganondorf to weild sword attacks.

to my knowledge. only his up smash in smash ultimate. has been changed to a sword.

it's true. it grinds me gear. I like. want it for those audiences. or rather. I just don't understand the wider. like. why those attacks are left there. that seem off-putting compared to the somehow visible look they should be attacking.


•

 

[Swamp Sensei]

my knowledge. only his up smash in smash ultimate. has been changed to a sword

All of his Smash attacks use his sword now.

 

[Veca Gorebyss]

All of his Smash attacks use his sword now.

•


i see.

I did not realize.

my complaint is still a matter of emphasis.

something like this. I guess.

his very character does not move around like a sword user. or sword ganondorf.

more would be nicer to be done to him.


•

 

[UserKev]

Not necessarily to do with speculation but I find users that pointlessly reply that fuel their egos rather tiring, which is essentially karma farming. I've seen it way too many times and know it isn't exactly genuine.

 

[GothicSlenderman]

Fan rules annoy me to no end. There is only one official rule when it comes to getting in Smash and it's that you must be a video game character (more specifically you must come from video games) Most fan rules have been broken especially in Ultimate.

-Only one guest character per studio (Ryu broke that)
-Only one guest per third party series (Richter broke that)
-"But Richter and Ken are Echo Fights" (Sephiroth)
-No rated M characters (Snake and Bayonetta)
-No western guests (Banjo and Steve)
-Not relevant enough (King K. Rool, Banjo, literally any Smash veteran that hasn't had a new game in years)
-This character is too new! They need time to "Prove themselves" (Corrin and Roy were added for cross promotion, Joker was announced 2 years after his game released. Also you just contradicted yourself with the rule prior)
-They wouldn't add a character for cross-promotion (Corrin and Roy)

There's never been any evidence for these fan rules. They have no real basis and only exist to try and shut down support for the characters the rule setter doesn't want. They just want to discourage people from supporting the characters they want so they can add more voices for their fighter.

Also I despise Smashtubers who react to literally any 4chan post with the phrase "take this with a grain of salt" it's just a way to try and farm views.

 

[Diddy Kong]

•


i see.

I did not realize.

my complaint is still a matter of emphasis.

something like this. I guess.

his very character does not move around like a sword user. or sword ganondorf.

more would be nicer to be done to him.


•

Have you played Tears of the Kingdom? I think you'll be pleasantly surprised in what you might find playing it.

 

[Lenidem]

There's never been any evidence for these fan rules. They have no real basis and only exist to try and shut down support for the characters the rule setter doesn't want. They just want to discourage people from supporting the characters they want so they can add more voices for their fighter.

It might be genuine though. You notice a pattern (or you think you do), you think this pattern is a rule the developers made themselves, so you use it to try and guess who has a chance and who doesn't.

Saying that one character seems likely or not doesn't necessarily mean that you are for or against his inclusion.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

It might be genuine though. You notice a pattern (or you think you do), you think this pattern is a rule the developers made themselves, so you use it to try and guess who has a chance and who doesn't.

Saying that one character seems likely or not doesn't necessarily mean that you are for or against his inclusion.

I think this is where the wording is important. Yes there are patterns and certain things do make things more likely or unlikely. We get blindsided by about half of the newcomers, but we can guess the other half.

I think the original post was more speaking against the idea of "that'll never happen because XYZ" instead of "I don't think that's likely because XYZ."

 

[Guynamednelson]

Fan rules are just fans being silly.

Until it's a character/concept you don't want.

Then the fan rules are an impenetrable fortress of impenetrable impenetrableness that makes Fort Knox look like a 6-year-old's pillow fort.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

This character is too new! They need time to "Prove themselves" (Corrin and Roy were added for cross promotion, Joker was announced 2 years after his game released. Also you just contradicted yourself with the rule prior)

I will say this one in particular irks me.

We have a lot of characters who have blatantly proven themselves that people just write off because they aren't a decade old.

Min Min, Pyra and Mythra were four years old when they were added. It was plenty enough time to see that they were some of the most popular characters in their franchise. They had more time to simmer than Pikachu and Jigglypuff did. And yet, people still call them shills. Keep in mind, those three weren't initially included because they were TOO NEW to even be an option. And with time, that problem stopped being a problem.

And we still have people saying Steve and Bayonetta are/were fads. I want a lot of older characters too, but people don't understand that TIME is constantly moving. What's new and unproven isn't new and unproven forever. It proves itself rather quickly.

 

[RileyXY1]

Fan rules annoy me to no end. There is only one official rule when it comes to getting in Smash and it's that you must be a video game character (more specifically you must come from video games) Most fan rules have been broken especially in Ultimate.

-Only one guest character per studio (Ryu broke that)
-Only one guest per third party series (Richter broke that)
-"But Richter and Ken are Echo Fights" (Sephiroth)
-No rated M characters (Snake and Bayonetta)
-No western guests (Banjo and Steve)
-Not relevant enough (King K. Rool, Banjo, literally any Smash veteran that hasn't had a new game in years)
-This character is too new! They need time to "Prove themselves" (Corrin and Roy were added for cross promotion, Joker was announced 2 years after his game released. Also you just contradicted yourself with the rule prior)
-They wouldn't add a character for cross-promotion (Corrin and Roy)

There's never been any evidence for these fan rules. They have no real basis and only exist to try and shut down support for the characters the rule setter doesn't want. They just want to discourage people from supporting the characters they want so they can add more voices for their fighter.

Also I despise Smashtubers who react to literally any 4chan post with the phrase "take this with a grain of salt" it's just a way to try and farm views.

The whole thing about characters being "too new" is really only for 3rd parties. 1st Party characters are strangely not affected by it.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

The whole thing about characters being "too new" is really only for 3rd parties. 1st Party characters are strangely not affected by it.

I mean, they cite Joker as an example.

 

[RileyXY1]

I mean, they cite Joker as an example.

Although he wasn't a Roy or a Corrin type. Persona 5 had already been out for two years by that point.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Keep in mind, those three were turned down at first because they were TOO NEW. And then they weren't with time.

This needs to be corrected.
They were never "turned down", they literally weren't even options to begin with when the roster was being drafted.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Going back to the avatar thing, I see why they're added and why they're requested. They're who you play as in their games, and they can often represent the games well due to having a variety of options.

I don't necessarily like avatars, because they're often barely their own characters, and because they have too much to work with. Meaning, they're largely customizable in their own games, so it doesn't feel like there's a right way to create a Smash moveset for them.

This is a case-by-case basis, though. Robin has a canon name, and has tactician as a base class, so they feel like an actual distinct character. On the other hand, I greatly dislike how Hero was implemented. Not even given a proper name, and is four different protagonists put into one character. And Command Selection is the devs having their cake and eating it too. Hero feels more like a vehicle to represent all of Dragon Quest than an actual character.

 

[ninjahmos]

On the other hand, I greatly dislike how Hero was implemented. Not even given a proper name, and is four different protagonists put into one character. And Command Selection is the devs having their cake and eating it too. Hero feels more like a vehicle to represent all of Dragon Quest than an actual character.

IIRC I believe the Dragon Quest protagonists actually have official names. At least, I think one of them does. E.G. the protagonist's name in DQIII is Erdrick.

But yeah, they should've given them their official names instead of just…"Hero." Or if they had picked ONE specific protagonist, they could've just picked either Luminary or Erdrick. But they picked four. Luminary, Erdrick, Solo and Eight. Most of which I'm guessing aren't even official names.

 

[Dan Quixote]

IIRC I believe the Dragon Quest protagonists actually have official names. At least, I think one of them does. E.G. the protagonist's name in DQIII is Erdrick.

But yeah, they should've given them their official names instead of just…"Hero." Or if they had picked ONE specific protagonist, they could've just picked either Luminary or Erdrick. But they picked four. Luminary, Erdrick, Solo and Eight. Most of which I'm guessing aren't even official names.

Luminary and Erdrick are actually just in-universe titles. Their "canon" names are Eleven (yes really) and some variation of Arus depending on how you transliterate it.

 

[ninjahmos]

You know what's irked me for quite awhile because it feels like a fan rule? Why can't we have character-sized bosses (that may or may not potentially be unlockable)?

I mean, since we already have Ryu, why can't we have M. Bison or Akuma as a boss?

 

[Lenidem]

You know what's irked me for quite awhile because it feels like a fan rule? Why can't we have character-sized bosses (that may or may not potentially be unlockable)?

I mean, since we already have Ryu, why can't we have M. Bison or Akuma as a boss?

What about Bowser and Ganondorf, and Sephiroth, and King Dedede, and Meta Knight...?

 

[ninjahmos]

What about Bowser and Ganondorf, and Sephiroth, and King Dedede, and Meta Knight...?

I admittedly forgot these guys were originally bosses in their games, but I meant bosses who aren't in Smash yet.

 

[MasterCheef]

The reps who folks are most excited for are boring.

My Top Most Wanted

codename : Legacy = XenoBlade Origins : protagonist
Noah + ( Mio = echo )
Officer Howard – Astral Chain
Iron Valiant ( Pokemon )
Tabuu

Vault Boy
Yumia ( Ryza = Alt ) = Atelier , via , Koei Tecmo
Harvard , from ; Deca Police
( Ahri & Lux ) - League of Legends , via Riot Games
Master Chief & Arbiter ( Halo )

 

[Opossum]

The reps who folks are most excited for are boring.

My Top Most Wanted

codename : Legacy = XenoBlade Origins : protagonist

Discovering something that doesn't exist!

 

[ninjahmos]

I'll be honest.

I think I'm starting to become against the idea of Black Knight as an Echo of . I mean, sure it may not seem as outlandish as Dixie as an Echo of or Funky as an Echo of , but Black Knight wears way more armor than Ike does, which means BK is much slower and that makes him a heavyweight and Ike more lightweight. I don't think they even have the same moves, at least from what I saw in Black Knight as an Assist Trophy.

Does BK look like he could pull off Aether with all that armor on?

 

[RodNutTakin]

I suppose this kinda counts as a necropost, given it's been a couple days, but recent gameplay footage for Wilds show us that the player Hunter actually speaks and interacts with people in cutscenes, which would likely put them roughly on level with Robin or Corrin; You can customize them freely, but still have a set character and dialogue.

So in the end? It doesn't even matter.

Probably. Maybe. We should probably wait for the game to release to make a final call. But still, if there was an issue with Avatars (Which there really isn't), that would very likely be solved as of Wilds

Here is my opinion with the MH avatar; just because it could be done doesn't mean it should be done.

My main issue is from an outsider casual perspective skimming through the gameplay, this is just some photorealistic guy with a big dumb bladestick, Pit this guy up against any other Capcom protagonist, deuteragonist, or antagonist (including the Monsters themselves) and he is very much trounced on all merits in my eyes. "Monster Hunter" isn't just "an avatar", it has historically been one of the most avatar avatars to have ever avatar...ed. It's on the same level as saying that a soldier avatar from Call of Duty is likely just because Call of Duty is one of the most influential western franchises ever. Yet I have only seen such a concept brought up as a joke because it seems no one would seriously want a generic military soldier with basic firearms. Other than MH being obviously much closer to Smash content-wise, I do not see a clear difference on a character level here.

I guess to put it in perspective, all of the other "avatars" currently in the roster have pretty distinct appearances. The Villager and Inkling are obvious in this regard thanks to their series' unique artstyles. Steve specifically refers to the default Minecraft skin instead of being always a catch-all for all Minecraft skins. Joker, the DQ Heroes, and the Femblem avatars, to my knowledge, all have defined designs that aren't really modifiable beyond some of these characters having male/female versions. None of them are really on the same level as a Monster Hunter, or a Call of Duty soldier, or an MMO create-a-character--in fact, I would say the Mii Fighters have much more in common with those three than any of the other "avatar" characters currently in Smash.

I proposed this in another thread--why not do what Brawl did with Animal Crossing, and give Monster Hunter everything except a fighter in the next game? A stage with a handful of remixes and more trophies/spirits/cards/side collectible things than in Ultimate. Would that be an outcome people would be genuinely unhappy with?

 

[Lenidem]

I proposed this in another thread--why not do what Brawl did with Animal Crossing, and give Monster Hunter everything except a fighter in the next game? A stage with a handful of remixes and more trophies/spirits/cards/side collectible things than in Ultimate. Would that be an outcome people would be genuinely unhappy with?

I know nothing about Monster Hunter, but I do agree with your post, especially with the last part. Some franchises would just not be represented well by a fighter. I'm thinking about Tetris. While many people here seem to want a playable Tetromino-golem, I think that would be a waste of development ressources. A stage (or maybe an assist) would do justice to this game way better.

 

[Perkilator]

OK, I know Monster Hunter is a bit contentious with whether or not it can be represented with a fighter, but hear me out: in Monster Hunter Stories, the player character rides on various monsters, and Rathalos is one of them. Basically, you can use the MH Stories version of Rathalos since it's scaled down from other MH games. That way, you can sidestep the issue of trying to represent Monster Hunter through a playable character since the player character of MH Stories would also be riding it.

 

[FazDude]

I know nothing about Monster Hunter, but I do agree with your post, especially with the last part. Some franchises would just not be represented well by a fighter. I'm thinking about Tetris. While many people here seem to want a playable Tetromino-golem, I think that would be a waste of development ressources. A stage (or maybe an assist) would do justice to this game way better.

As much as I'd love a Tetris stage (though I'd prefer a vertically scrolling one as opposed to throwing everyone into a Tetris box), I think a single playable Tetromino could make for an unique fighter visually - Imagine the blocks shifting around for different attacks.

 

[Lenidem]

As much as I'd love a Tetris stage (though I'd prefer a vertically scrolling one as opposed to throwing everyone into a Tetris box), I think a single playable Tetromino could make for an unique fighter visually - Imagine the blocks shifting around for different attacks.

Visually, it would be interesting, yes. But I think the visual aspect has quiete a limited appeal, and many fighters would have a unique appearance anyway.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

With Tetris Forever collecting many of the variations released over the years, I honestly think a level shifting from various different Tetris games would be most ideal for a stage. Start with the 1984 Electronika title, move on to the NES (or Famicom release), get some time in the definitive Game Boy version, shift to the Grand Master 2 release, and conclude with Tetris Effect.

 

[MBRedboy31]

Just kind of a general speculation thing, but, it bothers me when talk about characters needing to be either fully unique or echoes, like it’s an all or nothing thing. Semiclones exist too.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Just kind of a general speculation thing, but, it bothers me when talk about characters needing to be either fully unique or echoes, like it’s an all or nothing thing. Semiclones exist too.

I will forever defend semiclones because the concept turned Villager a moveset I can't stand I to Isabelle, a moveset I love.

Sometimes very small changes can make a huge difference.

 

[ninjahmos]

Speaking of semiclones, I think Black Knight would make a better semiclone of Ike than a full-on Echo.