Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Demo Impressions - Negatives

[star_seeker]

I really don't like Fox's voice from what I heard. It sounds kind of nasally, and it's a shame because I thought his Brawl voice suited him very well

Yes! I'm glad someone else agrees! Jay Walker (the Brawl actor, if I remember) was a fantastic Fox!

 

[Prince Longstrok]

Am I the only one that prefers his Japanese brawl one?

Id even accept Melee's, it was a very "in your face" kind of attitude B)

 

[NefariousShyGuy]

Well, actually, (hate to be that guy) but Fox, Kirby, and Pit have voice changes. Kirby has new clips, while Fox and Pit have new voice actors. Not 100% sure about Fox, but his voice does sound different

Really hate to be that guy too, but that's why I said "the only veteran with new voice clips from the same voice actor is Kirby". I know Fox and Pit have new voice actors, so that's why they have new voice clips. Overall, they're reusing voices from Brawl.

I realized the only reason Kirby is getting new voice clips is because they need Kirby to voice the newcomer neutral specials when he swallows their abilities (Ex: Little Mac's neutral B charge-up coming from Kirby).

 

[Pazzo.]

Does anyone have an example of Fox's new voice?

 

[Liggli]

Some stuff I've had problem with throughout several SSB-games, and by the looks of it, SSB4 will have this as well.

• Brawl introduced random start positions; works pretty well. But it's odd in 3-player mode or 2v2-mode. Try, for instance, Final Destination.
★ The game should handle start positions for 2-player, 3-player, 4-player, 2-on-2, etc... differently.

• The "GO"-text is on screen for too long, and I'm not sure, but it seems to be extended in SSB4? It obscures the battle at the start, especially in Sudden Death and against CPU.
★ The announcer still shouts "Go!", so option to remove the "GO"-text would be nice. Probably some mod will feature this.

• Loading Times. The bigger the game gets, the more polygons there is, the slower the game loads. The 64-version was quick, not only because it was cartridge (which the 3DS has), but because it was about 20 polygons per character. And SSB4 now has a loading screen for the menu! How can the menu take that much resources??
★ Preload content when the game knows when it's going to be used. Brawl loaded characters and stages when they were selected, and didn't unload them until something else was selected. And please don't unload the menu, we will always go back to the menu after the 2-8 minute match.

A few points...

 

[elliotnz]

This looks too defensive for my taste gonna start learning project m and melee.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

Knockback: high at low percents and low at high percents.

 

[star_seeker]

Really hate to be that guy too, but that's why I said "the only veteran with new voice clips from the same voice actor is Kirby". I know Fox and Pit have new voice actors, so that's why they have new voice clips. Overall, they're reusing voices from Brawl.

I realized the only reason Kirby is getting new voice clips is because they need Kirby to voice the newcomer neutral specials when he swallows their abilities (Ex: Little Mac's neutral B charge-up coming from Kirby).

oops. Guess I misread it

Am I the only one that prefers his Japanese brawl one?

Id even accept Melee's, it was a very "in your face" kind of attitude B)

Yeah I liked his Melee one too; his Japanese Brawl voice was really good too.

 

[Sen. Sawft]

This is one that's been mentioned often back at the Nintendo Direct, but I'm still confused about the whole "no special name, let's just call it Smash for Wii U and Smash for 3DS OK CALL IT A DAY SEE YOU TOMORROW, REGGIE" deal. I just don't see the reasoning behind no special name...

 

[Mooplet]

Can anyone explain to me what the upside would be of NOT including some sort of L-Cancel-esque mechanic?
If there's some unlisted way to speed up aerial landing lag, wouldn't casual players just never know about it?

What would be the harm?

 

[jfp521]

I haven't played the game yet but from what I can see it looks too much like brawl, a friend of mine who played it said it was smoother and faster and it looked faster than brawl, but that's exactly what I saw, a faster version of brawl. While I always appreciate a faster game it looked like it was still very much a game that was based around defensive play I.e. Still being able to cancel hit stun with air dodges , just a faster defensive game. I understand everything is still subject to change but as of now I am disappointed, I thought that after everything our community did with getting melee to Evo, the smash documentary and project M that Nintendo would have taken a look at melee and went more off that game engine rather than brawls. Now I don't like redundancy or griping on the past but I thought we made it clear that we want not a carbon copy but a more melee-esque game, these reasons are actually why pushing back the release dates excites me, maybe just maybe something will hit them that they should change the game up to make it more about what the fans want.

 

[Moldy Clay]

maybe just maybe something will hit them that they should change the game up to make it more about what the fans want.

You have to understand that "the fans" is not just a loud group of competitive players, and that it extends beyond people like you.

This isn't an attack, but I hate when people say "the fans" as a generalization, when there are tons and tons of people who just wanted it faster or don't care either way. Also, I'm pretty sure the inability to really hog ledges anymore goes against it being defensive.

This is one that's been mentioned often back at the Nintendo Direct, but I'm still confused about the whole "no special name, let's just call it Smash for Wii U and Smash for 3DS OK CALL IT A DAY SEE YOU TOMORROW, REGGIE" deal. I just don't see the reasoning behind no special name...

To be fair, it has no special name in Japan either. Actually, the whole series had no special name in Japan.
Super Smash Bros.
Super Smash Bros. DX
Super Smash Bros. X
Super Smash Bros. for 3DS
Super Smash Bros. for Wii U

The original actually had something about "Nintendo All-Stars", IIRC, and I think they all have the word "Melee" in them, though.

I agree that it's stupid, but that seems to just be how Nintendo's naming things for now. Personally, I wish they'd drop part of it and just call it Super Smash Bros. 3D & Super Smash Bros. U if they're going to be so basic. That, or make the "for" into "4", but maybe leaving that out will help solidify them as mostly different games (because having SSB4 in both titles would turn some people away from buying both).

 

[ShadyWolfe]

It is an old build since it was a demo that has to be ready and translated in advance so the problems I have with it may already have been fixed but the knockback is everywhere, the brawl air dodge is back, dont like people grabbing the stage with their backs, blast zones need to be reduced in size, and footstool jumping gone but nonetheless I am going to enjoy this smash just like the rest of them.

 

[DownWitDaWaveDash]

It is an old build since it was a demo that has to be ready and translated in advance so the problems I have with it may already have been fixed but the knockback is everywhere, the brawl air dodge is back, dont like people grabbing the stage with their backs, blast zones need to be reduced in size, and footstool jumping gone but nonetheless I am going to enjoy this smash just like the rest of them.

You don't like people grabbing the stage with their backs...? What if i told you you can grab the stage with your back, your front, AND when someone else is there >:|

 

[SirroMinus1]

Knockback: high at low percents and low at high percents.

thats rather strange.
My gripe is not being able to ledge cancel your moves. Thats just taking away depth yes it'll make for less self destructs ex. Fox shining off the stage, But it also removes the satisfaction of knowing the distance precisely to make your unsafe move slightly less laggy. Like when you up b with link or young link and use the edge of the platform to take away the landing lag. I like the new animation when run off the stage and do that little flip thing but i think that was put there to get rid of the platform cancels and again less self destructs.

 

[ShadyWolfe]

You don't like people grabbing the stage with their backs...? What if i told you you can grab the stage with your back, your front, AND when someone else is there >:|

I just don't like how it looks but is only a very small issue with me that I don't really care that much about it

 

[Tenguman]

You have to understand that "the fans" is not just a loud group of competitive players, and that it extends beyond people like you.

This isn't an attack, but I hate when people say "the fans" as a generalization, when there are tons and tons of people who just wanted it faster or don't care either way. Also, I'm pretty sure the inability to really hog ledges anymore goes against it being defensive.

You're right, I'm a non-competitive smash fan who likes watching the competitive smashers play. that's why the competitive community's opinion is more valuable because long term they are the ones that support the franchise and will bring in new spectators.

 

[Coonce]

To be fair, it has no special name in Japan either. Actually, the whole series had no special name in Japan.
Super Smash Bros.
Super Smash Bros. DX
Super Smash Bros. X
Super Smash Bros. for 3DS
Super Smash Bros. for Wii U

...everything I knew was a lie!

According to Wikipedia, it's "Great Melee Smash Brothers." Well I learned something new today.

 

[κomıc]

My main complaint is Pit's recovery. I'm still using him but wow. Don't like that change.

 

[Hinata]

My main complaint is Pit's recovery. I'm still using him but wow. Don't like that change.

After playing with P:M Pit's Up-B, any new recovery is a welcome change to me. Heheh. I really like Pit's new recovery. I like the distance it can cover.

 

[ScottyWK]

After playing with P:M Pit's Up-B, any new recovery is a welcome change to me. Heheh. I really like Pit's new recovery. I like the distance it can cover.

Plus the fact that if you're hit with once, you still have a chance to re-recover. That element to Pit's Brawl recovery was just terrible.

 

[D-idara]

Can anyone explain to me what the upside would be of NOT including some sort of L-Cancel-esque mechanic?
If there's some unlisted way to speed up aerial landing lag, wouldn't casual players just never know about it?

What would be the harm?

That's the exact problem, casuals would be forced to play a slower game because of an arbitrary barrier, it's better to just speed up the landing lag overall, no annoying inputs.

 

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

1.) Stage Bosses. Yellow Devil really ruins the experience of a new Megaman stage. He appears WAY too often.
2.) I think the ceilings of the stages are too high, which contributes to characters living for so long.
3.) Movement options are still pretty limited, which may lead to a more defensive metagame.
4.)Fox's voice actor. Awful.

 

[Warsaint777]

@ D-idara --- I have to disagree with your views of landing lag and L-cancelling. I think it's an important mechanic in general that a failed/missed attack be potentially punishable, the stronger the attack the longer the recovery, the greater the gamble. In the case of cancelling not being present, it simply means you better aim/read right and make contact or you give an opening; I think this is natural even in, like, real life fighting, haha.

In the instance of L-cancelling being an option, I share your wincing at technical exploitations not intended by developers, there's something obnoxious and exclusive about it in a way and it makes it worse when there's something unnatural looking about it. But I think Melee's L-cancelling was a brilliant accident that increased the learning curve in a way that was both fair and cool-looking to boot. The risk/reward aspect of short hop attacks, etc, shifted based on your experience and skill. I thought this seemed natural.

I have slightly different opinions on the exploits of dashdancing and wavedashing but that gets muddy (and less credible since I can't wavedash for s***)

 

[D-idara]

@ D-idara --- I have to disagree with your views of landing lag and L-cancelling. I think it's an important mechanic in general that a failed/missed attack be potentially punishable, the stronger the attack the longer the recovery, the greater the gamble. In the case of cancelling not being present, it simply means you better aim/read right and make contact or you give an opening; I think this is natural even in, like, real life fighting, haha.

In the instance of L-cancelling being an option, I share your wincing at technical exploitations not intended by developers, there's something obnoxious and exclusive about it in a way and it makes it worse when there's something unnatural looking about it. But I think Melee's L-cancelling was a brilliant accident that increased the learning curve in a way that was both fair and cool-looking to boot. The risk/reward aspect of short hop attacks, etc, shifted based on your experience and skill. I thought this seemed natural.

I have slightly different opinions on the exploits of dashdancing and wavedashing but that gets muddy (and less credible since I can't wavedash for s***)

The only problem being that L-Cancel's not a curve, it's a barrier, a wall.

 

[Warsaint777]

I don't follow. How do you mean.

 

[PCHU]

The only problem being that L-Cancel's not a curve, it's a barrier, a wall.

It's only a wall if that's the entire focus of your game; if you space your larger aerials correctly, it's not going to affect you much if you miss an l-cancel.

Let's take Ike for instance, and he uses bair to approach but spaces correctly.
Yes, he might get to attack again if he lands the l-cancel, but if he doesn't, he has a chance to get out of there before facing a real punishment.
Someone like Fox who misses an l-cancel on dair deserves to get punished for going in with such a limited move.

However, if we take out l-cancel and just lower landing lag altogether, it'll be nice and more people will be able to pressure -without complaining- but the execution will be near-braindead and there very well may be a bit of an uproar regarding certain characters having access to way too much for too little cost.

I'm still for lowering landing lag in any way possible -- it's a great mechanic that opens up a LOT more of a character and makes the game more interesting, but I would prefer l-canceling.
And remember, just because some people can't do it doesn't mean that they can't compete at a higher level with their fundamentals.

 

[LeeYawshee]

My only real complaint is that the 3DS version felt unnatural to me. Not because of c-sticking because I can easily adapt to anything but rather because the control scheme was not customizable. Of course this is a problem that I doubt will be in the full version.


As for everyone complaining about dash dancing?

 

[PCHU]

As for everyone complaining about dash dancing?

Yes and no.
Yes, that is dashing back and forth very fast, but no, that is not the way dash dancing is intended to work.
I encourage you to watch this: http://youtu.be/8aMwg9iSscY?t=8m20s
When you dash dance properly, you can remain just outside of your opponent's area of influence while retaining the ability to either approach or run away depending on the situation.
As Marth, dash dance opens up plenty of grab opportunities; for instance, let's say CF decides to approach with a grab -- Marth, already in dash dance, opts to dash dance away to avoid the grab, then back forward to punish that grab with his own, letting him be outside of CF's range one second and within appropriate range the next.
Hope that made sense.

 

[Warsaint777]

And remember, just because some people can't do it doesn't mean that they can't compete at a higher level with their fundamentals.

I like this point, because it's true-- L-cancelling is not going to make or break your ability to compete at a tournament level (at least in the case of PM). I do hate games where the advanced technological exploitation become a necessity in a game's competitive venue. The best example I can think of was the unintentionally super-snipey pistol from Halo CE. If you couldn't use that thing divinely it didn't matter how skilled you were at closer combat, grenades, etc and it quickly alienated a lot of players.

None of this matters though since L-cancelling was a total design accident in melee and they won't be caught dead trying to replicate it in any future titles just to satisfy the hardcore players.

 

[LeeYawshee]

Yes and no.
Yes, that is dashing back and forth very fast, but no, that is not the way dash dancing is intended to work.
I encourage you to watch this: http://youtu.be/8aMwg9iSscY?t=8m20s
When you dash dance properly, you can remain just outside of your opponent's area of influence while retaining the ability to either approach or run away depending on the situation.
As Marth, dash dance opens up plenty of grab opportunities; for instance, let's say CF decides to approach with a grab -- Marth, already in dash dance, opts to dash dance away to avoid the grab, then back forward to punish that grab with his own, letting him be outside of CF's range one second and within appropriate range the next.
Hope that made sense.

My mistake. Thank you for the correction.

 

[byebye]

The one mechanic that makes Smash much different and more compelling than most fighting games is the way you beat your opponent: by keeping them off the stage. Yet for some reason this gameplay style is continually discouraged with every iteration after Melee. If I want to simply fight on a flat surface until the other guy dies I might as well play, well, every other fighting game in existence.

The mechanics that makes Smash much different and more compelling than most fighting games is that they made Smash a chaotic game that involves upto 4 players that uses items and stage mastery to push each other outside the battle area.

Yet for some reason this gameplay style is continually discouraged by the competitive players

• 1 v 1
• No items
• Static stages
• Stocks that really just resembles a round, except your life carries over

If I want to simply fight 1 v 1, no items, static stages, until the other guy dies multiple times, I might as well play, well, every other fighting game in existence.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seriously, competitive players are on the verge of transforming smash into the liking of a traditional fighter, then when something comes up like this, players still don't like them? Interesting.

 

[LeeYawshee]

The mechanics that makes Smash much different and more compelling than most fighting games is that they made Smash a chaotic game that involves upto 4 players that uses items and stage mastery to push each other outside the battle area.

Yet for some reason this gameplay style is continually discouraged by the competitive players

• 1 v 1
• No items
• Static stages
• Stocks that really just resembles a round, except your life carries over

If I want to simply fight 1 v 1, no items, static stages, until the other guy dies multiple times, I might as well play, well, every other fighting game in existence.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seriously, competitive players are on the verge of transforming smash into the liking of a traditional fighter, then when something comes up like this, players still don't like them? Interesting.

That's the way that THEY want to play. If you actually go to tournaments they have matches known as "friendlies" in which they play with whatever items they want, free for alls (sometimes 1v1) any stages, and timed matches. Sometimes (rarely) even COIN matches.

 

[Warsaint777]

@ byebye Why do you have a problem with strict guidelines for tournaments? Rules that simplify things and keep them from becoming erratic are important for any tournament. Items are for far more casual scenerios, they're fun but they have their place.

 

[byebye]

@ byebye Why do you have a problem with strict guidelines for tournaments? Rules that simplify things and keep them from becoming erratic are important for any tournament. Items are for far more casual scenerios, they're fun but they have their place.

Guidelines for tournaments are a different topic altogether. I have a different view on that.

What I just wanted to say was it is ironic to see negative feedback that smash was starting to feel like a traditional fighter while in reality, that is what the community wants.

 

[mygamecube]

Guidelines for tournaments are a different topic altogether. I have a different view on that.

What I just wanted to say was it is ironic to see negative feedback that smash was starting to feel like a traditional fighter while in reality, that is what the community wants.

Actually, if anything, the Smash community wants a game that caters both ways. Smash is supposed to be a game that can be played however the user feels like playing it, after all.

 

[Warsaint777]

@ byebye I actually totally get that. Smash was this wildly innovative fighter then quickly as it became so compettitive people wanted to "sterilize" it into as rigid an e-sport it could be. I think this makes sense though. But as mygamecube just said, the game needs to be 100% manipulable that it can cater to a group of friends goofin off in giant-mode set to all pokeballs but also the bread-n-butter hardcores who want nothing to get in the way of their raw skill; this gets very tricky for a developer apparently.

Btw seriously how the f*** do I quote someone the way you guys are? I've experimented to no avail.

 

[byebye]

@ byebye I actually totally get that. Smash was this wildly innovative fighter then quickly as it became so compettitive people wanted to "sterilize" it into as rigid an e-sport it could be. I think this makes sense though. But as mygamecube just said, the game needs to be 100% manipulable that it can cater to a group of friends goofin off in giant-mode set to all pokeballs but also the bread-n-butter hardcores who want nothing to get in the way of their raw skill; this gets very tricky for a developer apparently.

Btw seriously how the f*** do I quote someone the way you guys are? I've experimented to no avail.

yeah i'm not really complaning. it's just like playing mario kart in time trial, then you compete based on best times / ghosts. or like playing poker without using real money. or like playing basketball 1 vs 1. that's not just how the game is intended to be played, or should I say, the game is incomplete when played that way.

for quoting:
option1, click reply link (the one beside the like link) at the bottom of my post.
option2, enclose your text with the quote start tag and end tag, just like html but by using brackets i.e. [] instead of <>

 

[SmashWolf]

I have four issues with the game. Otherwise, it looks like it would be great after they add some finishing touches to it.

-The game looks like it's heavily based off Brawl's engine, data, and movement, making it feel like Brawl 2.0. Even Project M feels more different, and that's just a Brawl hack.

-Alot of the new items are ridiculously overpowered. Full heal by fairies, a Chu-chu bomb you can throw like a bomb-omb or just put down, insta-kill Beetle, extremely powerfull Steel Diver, god-recovery Jetpack, not to mention the Blue Shell from Mario Kart. Thank Tabuu you can dodge it, but it still seems incredibly powerfull.

-It looks like they STILL think time mode is actually a valid default gamemode, when all it does is make tons of sudden deaths, encourage stalling when the timer is about to run out, and promote characters who are good at stealing KO's to get points.(Which is why you'd see Ike win 80% of the matches in Brawl's spectator mode)

-Some stupid character decisions, like Fox still having his stupid Starfox Command look, Sonic still having way too many ball attacks and no real alternate colors, Samus' already extremely nerfed missiles getting even more of a downgrade, Wii Fit Trainer having absolutely ridiculous damage in some of her moves, etc.

 

[Kain6th]

Hey I was wondering, how confident would you guys say you are that Sakurai and the team will actually listen to these?

Like do you think they really will fix the histun and move lag issues since those seem to pop up the most?