Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Demo Impressions - Negatives

[Brother AJ]

All the negativity is bringing me down, and it doesn't help that there aren't as many positives floating about. I'm sure that it will still be an experience that is better than most games, but I'm not sure yet if I'll enjoy it competitively. I just hope that there will be some changes by the time it's actually released. I suppose that's all I can do for now.

 

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

All the negativity is bringing me down, and it doesn't help that there aren't as many positives floating about. I'm sure that it will still be an experience that is better than most games, but I'm not sure yet if I'll enjoy it competitively. I just hope that there will be some changes by the time it's actually released. I suppose that's all I can do for now.

Like I said, I think Smash 4 is going to be its own beast, regardless of people saying it feels closer to Brawl. I'm not happy with some competitive aspects of this game, yet I'm still going to buy it and love it. I play 64, Melee, Brawl, and PM and love all of them to death, despite the flaws. I'm confident changes will be made, but this game is still amazing. It's the celebration of Nintendo history that makes me love Smash, even if competitive play isn't up to par.

Don't let the negativity bring you down. It's a new game, a new experience, a new perspective. I hope you don't skip out on this game.

 

[andalsoandy]

Mario has less landing lag time than others or do you mean that Mario's F.L.U.D.D. does damage this time around?

So Sheik, Donkey Kong and Toon Link have the same Final Smash?

I mean, I can understand Toon Link since he is the incarnation of regular Link, but he should at least get something that resembles he is from the Wind Waker Universe.

Sheik should have been something related to Ninja skills, because Sheik should not have the same Final Smash as Zelda.

Donkey Kong's Final Smash was original, but boring and not very well implemented, it should have changed.

From what I saw from the Yellow Devil, he immediately respawns 5-10 seconds after he is killed.

Mario has like zero landing lag on his U-air and N-air from what I've seen. FLUDD is still just a push weapon.

And yes, all of their final smashes are unchanged.

Isn't that the whole point? It sounds more like he's serving his intended purpose to me.

Yeah, but he appears way too frequently. I feel like they did that since the demo was set to only 2 minutes and Sakurai felt the need to let players experience it as much as possible.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Mario has like zero landing lag on his U-air and N-air from what I've seen. FLUDD is still just a push weapon.

And yes, all of their final smashes are unchanged.



Yeah, but he appears way too frequently. I feel like they did that since the demo was set to only 2 minutes and Sakurai felt the need to let players experience it as much as possible.

Well that sucks about Donkey Kong, Toon Link and Sheik's Final Smash. :<

 

[andalsoandy]

Well that sucks about Donkey Kong, Toon Link and Sheik's Final Smash. :<

Who knows? What if they're changed before release? I mean it's unlikely but you never know... Sakurai said things were subject to change. That build of the game isn't complete yet either so they might just be ported over from Brawl.

 

[ferioku]

Who knows? What if they're changed before release? I mean it's unlikely but you never know... Sakurai said things were subject to change. That build of the game isn't complete yet either so they might just be ported over from Brawl.

It obviously isn't ported from brawl, otherwise the game would have been finished a long time ago. Sakurai said that the demo that everyone played was an early build so we will have to wait for any later builds...

 

[Brother AJ]

Could someone please explain why they would possibly prevent these characters from carrying the momentum from their dash into a jump? As others have said, this is in every single platform game that exists. I can understand having to slow down before you crouch, and even that a character has to recover from using an aerial so close to the ground, as this actually seems realistic to me (of course, characters without wings have mid air jumps, but perhaps we shouldn't get in to that). It seems the developers care about realism in some ways, but not in others, and I'd imagine your momentum being consistent with a characters speed is a big one to ignore. What is the deal? What was the point of taking that out?

 

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

I'm just hoping that dash jump momentum wasn't implemented yet. It makes no sense as to why something as simple as having momentum afrer running then jumping is not in this game. I really hope the feedback Nintendo got is actually being used.

 

[YoshiSonic]

Looks like chain grabs won't make a return in this game because overpowered grab flinging. Aw...

 

[andalsoandy]

It obviously isn't ported from brawl, otherwise the game would have been finished a long time ago. Sakurai said that the demo that everyone played was an early build so we will have to wait for any later builds...

Maybe their method of making the game was recreating Brawl and making the necessary changes from there? idk.

 

[GoinBananas]

Reading smashboards and r/smashbros makes me really happy that someone competent like Sakurai is developing these games and not the general smash fanbase. Good lord.

 

[ferioku]

Maybe their method of making the game was recreating Brawl and making the necessary changes from there? idk.

I doubt it, the game feel isn't really much like brawl, the only similarity i would say is the dodging and landing lag, which he will hopefully fix, I just hope he isn't that stubborn this time around,

 

[Yakko93]

My only negatives are Sega's lack of effort in Sonic's voice, and the rotating menu being gone. Otherwise, great game and demo.

 

[victinivcreate1]

Reading smashboards and r/smashbros makes me really happy that someone competent like Sakurai is developing these games and not the general smash fanbase. Good lord.

IfI had to choose between Mew2King and Sakurai to develop the game, I'd choose M2K. Yes he has no experience in making games. But he'll obsess over it and then make a great game. Sakurai doesn't know how to make a competitive game. He has experience in making casual oriented games.

 

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

IfI had to choose between Mew2King and Sakurai to develop the game, I'd choose M2K. Yes he has no experience in making games. But he'll obsess over it and then make a great game. Sakurai doesn't know how to make a competitive game. He has experience in making casual oriented games.

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. He may not understand how a competitive Smash player's mind works, but he has heart. NO ONE will ever have as much as heart and put in as much work in Smash as Masahiro Sakurai.

 

[victinivcreate1]

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. He may not understand how a competitive Smash player's mind works, but he has heart. NO ONE will ever have as much as heart and put in as much work in Smash as Masahiro Sakurai.

Then let's see the "heart" for competitive smash. Competitive Smash didn't ask for GSP (which is based off single player achievements). We did want to further perpetuate the stereotype that competitve players only use FD. We just wanted a game where we have just as many if not more movement options than Melee in Smash 4.

Sakurai failed to deliver. And i seriously doubt the demo will be changed.

 

[ferioku]

Then let's see the "heart" for competitive smash. Competitive Smash didn't ask for GSP (which is based off single player achievements). We did want to further perpetuate the stereotype that competitve players only use FD. We just wanted a game where we have just as many if not more movement options than Melee in Smash 4.

Sakurai failed to deliver. And i seriously doubt the demo will be changed.

Ohh someone seems butthurt, well to be honest, it isn't as easy to make a game as you think it is. Are you forgetting that the demo was one of the earliest builds for SB4? A lot of things can change, Nintendo obviously wouldn't take notes from players if they didn't want to change anything. Just wait for the game to come out before making any real judgments, he's already removed a few things which made brawl less competitive, which is the ability to spam air dodges and tripping. He can easily increase the gravity level and add dashing to the game to add some mechanics. He does listen to his fans you know =/

 

[obeymalleo]

Then let's see the "heart" for competitive smash. Competitive Smash didn't ask for GSP (which is based off single player achievements). We did want to further perpetuate the stereotype that competitve players only use FD. We just wanted a game where we have just as many if not more movement options than Melee in Smash 4.

Sakurai failed to deliver. And i seriously doubt the demo will be changed.

I really see your point in your first statement; I completely agree with you.

As for your other statement, however, you must take into account that Sakurai, and Nintendo Treehouse employees have stated many times that the demo was a fairly early build, and that the demo build is not the final product. Also, it seemed as if Nintendo employees were taking notes from people stating how they should remove aerial lag, because there was so much ending lag in the demo (I know that from experience). So, I do feel pretty confident that the final game will be drastically better than the demo in terms of combo ability, and movement options.

*EDIT: I just want everyone to know that I am not lashing out at anyone, nor am I attempting to arouse a flame war. If I am on the verge of doing so, I apologize.

 

[victinivcreate1]

Ohh someone seems butthurt, well to be honest, it isn't as easy to make a game as you think it is. Are you forgetting that the demo was one of the earliest builds for SB4? A lot of things can change, Nintendo obviously wouldn't take notes from players if they didn't want to change anything. Just wait for the game to come out before making any real judgments, he's already removed a few things which made brawl less competitive, which is the ability to spam air dodges and tripping. He can easily increase the gravity level and add dashing to the game to add some mechanics. He does listen to his fans you know =/

You do realize you can still spam airdodges right? You just can't airdodge into the ground lagless anymore.

 

[ferioku]

I really see your point in your first statement; I completely agree with you.

As for your other statement, however, you must take into account that Sakurai, and Nintendo Treehouse employees have stated many times that the demo was a fairly early build, and that the demo build is not the final product. Also, it seemed as if Nintendo employees were taking notes from people stating how they should remove aerial lag, because there was so much ending lag in the demo (I know that from experience). So, I do feel pretty confident that the final game will be drastically better than the demo in terms of combo ability, and movement options.

^This
People honestly need to chill, the game was an early build and wasn't even fully developed, no one should make full judgments, obviously give the Nintendo staff some constructive feedback of how the game could be improved, but people shouldn't say that the game is crap when they played it for a few hours!

@ victinivcreate1

Thats what I meant, at least it is highly punishable. At least give the game a chance, you will never know how it lies competitively until the game is fully released, we only got our hands on one of the earliest builds. We have also got several month till the game releases and that's the 3DS version!

Namco is also building on this game, so all we can do is hope!

 

[---]

Alright drop the current discussion as it's about to turn into a flame war.

 

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

I'm glad I chose not to respond anymore. I can already tell this was about to get ugly.

I have some pretty serious gripes with this game so far, mainly game mechanics, but despite that it's amazing. I see some people saying the game doesn't feel as much of a transition from the other iterations, and I in a way I agree with them.

Maybe I'm just looking at this whole game the wrong way. I think this game has great competitive potential, but it's going to be different from all three past games. I believe this game has a new feel to it, but it hasn't really been explored yet. I need to sleep over this...

 

[HipsandChips]

You people do relize that video games are made for demographics and the "competing scene" no where near amounts to how many "casuals" will buy the game.
Like 80-90% of people who bought melee and brawl have never heard of "wave dashing" or "l canceling."

Keep that in mind when you make assanine comments about how someone who happens to be good at the game would be a begger director then the one who brought the original product in the first place.

Tdlr there are in fact people other than you who like the game.

 

[SKM_NeoN]

You people do relize that video games are made for demographics and the "competing scene" no where near amounts to how many "casuals" will buy the game.
Like 80-90% of people who bought melee and brawl have never heard of "wave dashing" or "l canceling."

Keep that in mind when you make assanine comments about how someone who happens to be good at the game would be a begger director then the one who brought the original product in the first place.

Tdlr there are in fact people other than you who like the game.

Doesn't matter, if it's a negative for somebody they should feel free to express it. If 80% of the world wanted a mandatory bean week where it was against the law to eat non-bean foods, would you sit quietly and just accept it?

 

[Brother AJ]

Doesn't matter, if it's a negative for somebody they should feel free to express it. If 80% of the world wanted a mandatory bean week where it was against the law to eat non-bean foods, would you sit quietly and just accept it?

Good point, although it was made with a rather strange example. I hate all non-bean foods.

Too bad minorities are often brushed aside when it comes to someone trying to make financial gain. Bottom line though: A game like Melee with all it's movement options appeals to both casuals as well as the competitive crowd. It can play however you want to it to play. How hard is it to include all of us? Not to say that Smash 4 won't have that option, but it just seems less fun to me at this point. Having less options during gameplay tends to make me feel that way.

 

[pickle962]

Sakurai failed to deliver. And i seriously doubt the demo will be changed.

*must resist urge to be a d*ck* You do REALIZE that the demo used last month at SmashFest was/has been proven to be based on a much older build of the game dating as far back as possibly March right? Saying that the game won't change based off your experiences with a demo running an older build of Smash 4 is pretty asinine dude! I imagine making sure the characters included in the demo working like they should i.e making sure using them wouldn't cause problems with the demo itself takes precedence over in game mechanics which honestly aren't THAT important if the build itself is as ancient as dinosaurs.

 

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

I'm at the point now where I would just like to get my hands on the game. I'm mainly excited because I really want to dive into this game and really see what's possible and not possible. I think some new techniques can be found in this iteration of Smash Bros, but people have to give it a chance so those possible techniques can be discovered.

 

[SKM_NeoN]

Good point, although it was made with a rather strange example. I hate all non-bean foods.

One day, when I was a kid, my mom came up with "bean day". Once a week she would not serve us anthing but stuff with beans in it. Nobody liked it of course. I still can't look at a bean without having panic attacks!

 

[victinivcreate1]

*must resist urge to be a d*ck* You do REALIZE that the demo used last month at SmashFest was/has been proven to be based on a much older build of the game dating as far back as possibly March right? Saying that the game won't change based off your experiences with a demo running an older build of Smash 4 is pretty asinine dude! I imagine making sure the characters included in the demo working like they should i.e making sure using them wouldn't cause problems with the demo itself takes precedence over in game mechanics which honestly aren't THAT important if the build itself is as ancient as dinosaurs.

Did you know that the game was confirmed to be built off Brawl's engine? Do you realize that this is Sakurai, the man who doesn't think his game is meant to be competitive (even his so called "competitive parts of the game" like For Glory and GSP are based off single player achievements. Why not just a regular ranking system?). Did you know that half of the mechanics that made Brawl competitive are absent from this game?

I don't trust in Sakurai to change the demo physics so much. Yes Brawl had Melee physics in the demo, but Brawl also had a longer development time. This game doesn't have that time.

 

[Senario]

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. He may not understand how a competitive Smash player's mind works, but he has heart. NO ONE will ever have as much as heart and put in as much work in Smash as Masahiro Sakurai.

I laughed. The guy who has a heart is also the same guy who essentially says "you play my way or the highway" when it comes to competitive play. I think he puts in the normal effort for the game as would anybody else. With extra complaining about his arm then saying he will take more work and make the problem worse.

Also, negatives thread. Get your positivity out of here and go to the positives thread. This is for negatives and criticisms of the game.

 

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

I laughed. The guy who has a heart is also the same guy who essentially says "you play my way or the highway" when it comes to competitive play. I think he puts in the normal effort for the game as would anybody else. With extra complaining about his arm then saying he will take more work and make the problem worse.

Also, negatives thread. Get your positivity out of here and go to the positives thread. This is for negatives and criticisms of the game.

First of all, get off my back. You're just sounding plain rude right now.

Second of all, I noticed this is the Negatives Thread. In fact, you can find several of my negative posts if you bothered to look. There's even one on this page.

Third, Sakurai does not put in "normal effort." He has put in so much work into all of his creations. He worked on vacation days, holidays, and even weekends just to develop his games. He has a major disease in BOTH of his arms, yet he still choses to work as much as possible on these games.

Fourth, my "positivity" was meant to prevent those like @Bro AJ from letting all the negatives bring them down. This thread was meant to present all your negative impressions of the game, but I did not think it would almost give someone second thoughts about the game entirely. Chill out.

Fifth, I don't have a fifth, but I never knew the things I was posting on this particular page was going to get someone so bent out of shape, so I'm sorry.

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

Do you realize that this is Sakurai, the man who doesn't think his game is meant to be competitive (even his so called "competitive parts of the game" like For Glory and GSP are based off single player achievements. Why not just a regular ranking system?).

Ummmm what? For Glory matches have a stealth ranking system, GSP is a separate matter entirely.

If you're going to be negative, please be *accurate*. Too much jumping to conclusions using leaps of logic. Are you trying to be some sort of fraudster Mario?

 

[victinivcreate1]

Ummmm what? For Glory matches have a stealth ranking system, GSP is a separate matter entirely.

If you're going to be negative, please be *accurate*. Too much jumping to conclusions using leaps of logic. Are you trying to be some sort of fraudster Mario?

Lol the ranking system for Glory Mode is GSP. GSP is based off single player achievements. Yes while For Glory will also have a win loss ratio, how am I supposed to know that if one guy has a W-L of 200-4, but he plays the same person over and over again?

 

[DownWitDaWaveDash]

I've found a video with the tumble animation, just gotta wait till I get home to post it :C

 

[ferioku]

Did you know that the game was confirmed to be built off Brawl's engine? Do you realize that this is Sakurai, the man who doesn't think his game is meant to be competitive (even his so called "competitive parts of the game" like For Glory and GSP are based off single player achievements. Why not just a regular ranking system?). Did you know that half of the mechanics that made Brawl competitive are absent from this game?

I don't trust in Sakurai to change the demo physics so much. Yes Brawl had Melee physics in the demo, but Brawl also had a longer development time. This game doesn't have that time.

I just love it when people come up with lies. This game was built entirely from scratch, there is no evidence ANYWHERE, that this game is built from brawls engine. This is indeed one of the newest smash brothers earliest builds so making judgements this early is necessary. Melee didn't need online to be competitive did it? If you hate the game so much don't buy it, it's not like you actually have to buy it!

 

[D-idara]

Lol the ranking system for Glory Mode is GSP. GSP is based off single player achievements. Yes while For Glory will also have a win loss ratio, how am I supposed to know that if one guy has a W-L of 200-4, but he plays the same person over and over again?

Where did you hear this stupidity from? FG HAS ITS OWN RANKING SYSTEM, Global Smash Power is something completely different and separate.

 

[pickle962]

@ victinivcreate1 Smash 4 doesn't have a long development time like Brawl did? *rolls on the floor in laughter* Let's see here...

Smash 64: Few months at best considering its shoestring budget

Melee: A year and a month

Brawl: Two years

Sm4sh: Began development not long after Kid Icarus Uprising was released in early 2012 and had a working prototype by June I believe. Both versions will be out later this year due to the 3DS version being delayed to October and assuming the Wii U version is still planned for a Holiday release. Let's see...It's been two years since Sm4sh was confirmed to be in development and again, both versions are planned to be out later in the year making for quite a long period of game development time from early alpha all the way to when the game "goes gold" (meaning it's absolutely positively done and ready to be released). Yeah...oh and concerning "physics", sure they ain't going to RADICALLY change with just a few months left to go, but things such as air lag and hitstun can be tweaked till it works like it should along with other things. Remember kid, this is a demo with a build as old as three months back old.

As for things that made Brawl "competitive", I could honestly give less of a **** seeing as how most Brawl matches devolved into spamming projectiles WAY too much and/or running like a little ***** the whole match which Sm4sh I've heard based on some member's here reactions is thankfully being cut down on because nothing kills a supposedly competitive game faster than camping the whole damn match

 

[victinivcreate1]

@ victinivcreate1 Smash 4 doesn't have a long development time like Brawl did? *rolls on the floor in laughter* Let's see here...

Smash 64: Few months at best considering its shoestring budget

Melee: A year and a month

Brawl: Two years

Sm4sh: Began development not long after Kid Icarus Uprising was released in early 2012 and had a working prototype by June I believe. Both versions will be out later this year due to the 3DS version being delayed to October and assuming the Wii U version is still planned for a Holiday release. Let's see...It's been two years since Sm4sh was confirmed to be in development and again, both versions are planned to be out later in the year making for quite a long period of game development time from early alpha all the way to when the game "goes gold" (meaning it's absolutely positively done and ready to be released). Yeah...oh and concerning "physics", sure they ain't going to RADICALLY change with just a few months left to go, but things such as air lag and hitstun can be tweaked till it works like it should along with other things. Remember kid, this is a demo with a build as old as three months back old.

As for things that made Brawl "competitive", I could honestly give less of a **** seeing as how most Brawl matches devolved into spamming projectiles WAY too much and/or running like a little ***** the whole match which Sm4sh I've heard based on some member's here reactions is thankfully being cut down on because nothing kills a supposedly competitive game faster than camping the whole damn match

There's camping in Melee too ya know. But it rewards aggression, so camping isn't as prominent (unless you're Samus or Link, or you're Fox playing Jigglypuff).

Brawl rewarded defense so camping was better.

Sakurai didn't have to make camping suck. He just had to make it so offensive play was more rewarding than defensive play.

Also, Brawl had nearly 3 years. 2005 bro.

 

[---]

Alright it seems that this thread has served it's purpose.

Now that people are involved in off topic flame wars I see no reason to continue to leave this open.