Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Demo Impressions - Negatives

[victinivcreate1]

I feel this game had so much potential. Namco balancing, return of Mewtwo (and whether you like it or not, he's the most requested newcomer in the world), a new smash game that was faster than Brawl, with no tripping. An actual combo system. Faster, more fluid movement. I was very excited.

And then I played it.

Combo system extremely limited. Smash is a sandbox fighting game. In this game I feel that each character's combos are limited to just the moves in the combo. Say in Smash 4, you have Sheik, she can ftilt into utilt guaranteed. What if I wanna ftilt and then uair to start a juggle? The ftilt is too laggy for me to get the aerial follow up. I can't do my own combos. I feel restricted.

Movement is not fluid, and its not fun. Momentum from a dash into a jump is in EVERY SINGLE PLATFORMER. Its not in Smash4. Aerials are super laggy and don't allow for follow ups. The best movement is defensive movement-rolls, spotdodges, etc.

Every move is pretty unsafe on shield, so it becomes another game of who can poke each other to death.

I was hoping for a new experience. I don't want Melee 2. Get rid of L-Cancelling and wavedashing. I never liked the latter tbh. But replace them with just as meaningful techniques. This game doesn't do that.

I will say it, and I will stick with it until Sakurai shows me otherwise. Project M combines the best elements of all Smash games, and its still loaded with content, like alternate costumes, and new stages, etc. A hack, is better than the real game made by the real developer.

 

[Senario]

Hey I was wondering, how confident would you guys say you are that Sakurai and the team will actually listen to these?

Like do you think they really will fix the histun and move lag issues since those seem to pop up the most?

0 confidence in Sakurai and his team since it has to do with competitive play.

Nintendo I know is listening so maybe their word will matter more than Sakurai and his team.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

The Landing Lag on characters (time it takes to perform an attack after landing) takes way too long to give you an edge in the fight. That is my only concern.

 

[SKM_NeoN]

The mechanics that makes Smash much different and more compelling than most fighting games is that they made Smash a chaotic game that involves upto 4 players that uses items and stage mastery to push each other outside the battle area.

Yet for some reason this gameplay style is continually discouraged by the competitive players

• 1 v 1
• No items
• Static stages
• Stocks that really just resembles a round, except your life carries over

If I want to simply fight 1 v 1, no items, static stages, until the other guy dies multiple times, I might as well play, well, every other fighting game in existence.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seriously, competitive players are on the verge of transforming smash into the liking of a traditional fighter, then when something comes up like this, players still don't like them? Interesting.

I think everyone here can agree that the ability to play a 4-player fighting game with a vast variety of options is fantastic. I whole-heartedly agree that these options make Smash Bros. much more compelling than other fighting games.

However, my post was directly related to the competitive scene. Although it's been experimented with, items and 4-player matches always fail to be as fascinating and skill-based (which is the point of a tournament). I stand by my reasoning that a ledge-game (along with its platformer-esque movement options and combo system) is what makes Smash Bros. an awesome competitive experience.

I'd also like to point out that this thread is a safe haven for those of us with negative things to say about Smash 4. The replies really shouldn't be contended.

 

[Senario]

What is with all of the not negative impressions of the game lol. Either way blah playing it doesn't make it feel like it is conductive to competitive play.

 

[kikaru]

Constructive criticism will be healthier for the game in the long run so long as Nintendo listens to what fans want in general, and as long as those demands aren't too ludicrous. Based on gameplay footage and interviews, here's my take on improvements that could be made to the game:

Running off of a platform should not result in an automatic jump.

Grabs appear to knock back the opponents at low percentage a lot more, thus reducing the combo potential on a lot of characters (Marth especially).

The amount of lag introduced in aerials should be toned down. Based on footage, not only does it slow down the gameplay, but the introduction of laggy aerials reduces the incentive to use them and ultimately reduces one possible approach option available to players.

And as far as the roster goes, let's just hope that if the initial roster is lacking certain characters such as King K. Rool and Ridley, that it will be rectified in DLC.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

I think everyone here can agree that the ability to play a 4-player fighting game with a vast variety of options is fantastic. I whole-heartedly agree that these options make Smash Bros. much more compelling than other fighting games.

However, my post was directly related to the competitive scene. Although it's been experimented with, items and 4-player matches always fail to be as fascinating and skill-based (which is the point of a tournament). I stand by my reasoning that a ledge-game (along with its platformer-esque movement options and combo system) is what makes Smash Bros. an awesome competitive experience.

I'd also like to point out that this thread is a safe haven for those of us with negative things to say about Smash 4. The replies really shouldn't be contended.

It could also be argued that while everyone is entitled to their own opinion, some opinions are terrible and have the potential to draw criticism from other readers for fear of that terrible opinion having an influence on something.

Just as you're allowed to have an opinion, other people are allowed to have an opinion on your opinion. It's the negatives discussion, not the negatives safe haven.

 

[Warsaint777]

Hey I was wondering, how confident would you guys say you are that Sakarai and the team will actually listen to these?

Like do you think they really will fix the histun and move lag issues since those seem to pop up the most?

I would sadly assume that, no, Sakurai and the staff do not intend to, well, to at least implement cancelling into the game intentionally despite the what the competitive demographic wants. That being said, there are apparently quotes of his that suggest he knows hardcore players were disappointing in a lot of the slower and baby-fed elements of Brawl, and Wii U/3DS is already noticeably faster. I don't know what he's thinking with the major landing lag though. I think it's his intention, maybe, to just make failed air attacks to be highly punishable.

Edit: And oh, if you're asking if anyone from Nintendo looks at SMASHBOARDS FORUMS, let alone knows it even exists--- no f***ing way.

 

[SKM_NeoN]

It could also be argued that while everyone is entitled to their own opinion, some opinions are terrible and have the potential to draw criticism from other readers for fear of that terrible opinion having an influence on something.

I don't like your egotistical attitude. Not one bit.

Just as you're allowed to have an opinion, other people are allowed to have an opinion on your opinion. It's the negatives discussion, not the negatives safe haven.

Fair enough. Considering we have a positives thread I view most counter-arguments as off-topic, but I suppose that's up to the mods. Doesn't bother me either way.

 

[Warsaint777]

I don't like your egotistical attitude. Not one bit.



Fair enough. Considering we have a positives thread I view most counter-arguments as off-topic, but I suppose that's up to the mods. Doesn't bother me either way.

Yeah even though there can arguably be such a thing as "terrible opinions", there's no reason to even use the term in a smash forum, all that's gonna do is start flames. Besides if you think someone is truly off the rocker with what they think it's more fun to try to get them to logic-out their views to you and find out if they're truly stupid/insane or not haha.

Edit: What I'm saying is, if you think someone's opinion is "terrible", ignore them or respectfully assert discussion with them to try to get into their head. You'll usually be pleased with the results because you'll either find out they're not so stupid after all and just have different convictions, or you'll find out theu are indeed ignorant/in poor character and you can quietly move on in confidence.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

I don't like your egotistical attitude. Not one bit.



Fair enough. Considering we have a positives thread I view most counter-arguments as off-topic, but I suppose that's up to the mods. Doesn't bother me either way.

I didn't single anyone out, I was just clarifying that they exist.

Like "Smash should have less mechanic options because it makes the game better".

100% opinion, but begging to be argued against. That's an exaggeration argument in itself but that's the gist of what I'm getting at. You can't expect uninformed opinions with either little merit or very little detail to back up their validity to go un-challenged.

Most people in a place like smash boards are irritated by ignorance, because it doesn't do anyone any good to be so.

 

[Warsaint777]

I love having unpopular opinions lol. But only because I feel like I can truly back them up logically. Pretty confident of me eh?

 

[Deus]

From what I watched I agree with people about the horrible grounded movement with no dash dancing/fox trotting/wding(obviously)/or even the ability to just cancel the dash in a variety of ways. Also it seem like every high knockback move sent them diagonally upwards making people live extremely long and creating no off the stage fighting/edgeguarding at all. The whole recovery moves auto snapping regardless of where you started it again is also lame especially considering the change with not being about to abuse ledge invincibility.

Overall It just looked like a slightly better version of brawl which is extremely depressing to me. I'll just have to stick to Project:M.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

no fox trotting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PSfH7IfWug (Beginning of the video)

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

[quote="Deus, post: 16960176, member: 18494"fox trotting[/quote]

actually you can still foxtrot and pivot well in this game from what we saw.

 

[Xigger]

Running off of a platform should not result in an automatic jump.

This isn't a real thing, is it? This doesn't sound right. Running of a platform makes your character jump?...

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

No, they go into a tumble animation.

Edit: And oh, if you're asking if anyone from Nintendo looks at SMASHBOARDS FORUMS, let alone knows it even exists--- no f***ing way.

You'd be surprised. According to a stream by Prog, Nintendo DOES have eyes on the fans, so I wouldn't count out someone from Nintendo being around here. Keep in mind they are aware of AND are ignoring Project M for its own good.

 

[kikaru]

This isn't a real thing, is it? This doesn't sound right. Running of a platform makes your character jump?...

According to an interview with D1, players who want to run off a platform and edge-hog by pressing down on the analog stick are forced to jump. This can be somewhat rectified through tumbling towards the edge and grabbing it, though some characters' tumbles reach too far such as Bowser's. He mentions this at about 3:00.

 

[SmashHole '82]

In Mississauga, Ontario, Canada, the fans were PSYCHOTIC. At the Wii U demo, the gamers would scream every chance they got. The Final Smashes, of course, were the worst occasion for that. And DON'T get me started with Mega Man's!

 

[Warsaint777]

No, they go into a tumble animation.


You'd be surprised. According to a stream by Prog, Nintendo DOES have eyes on the fans, so I wouldn't count out someone from Nintendo being around here. Keep in mind they are aware of AND are ignoring Project M for its own good.

What do you mean ignoring project m for its own good? For who's own good and why? Are you saying if they got to aggressive against it they'd be shooting themselves in the foot cuz the fans would backlash and they'd lose consumer loyalty or whatever?

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

Project M's own good. If Nintendo acknowledges it, they'll be forced to shut it down for legal reasons. From the interview, it looks like they're intrigued by it, but will largely not touch it and let the fans do what they want with it.

 

[nessokman]

I don't know if you realized this, but we don't have any idea when that demo was made. It could have been made several months back in advance for e3. I wouldn't judge it at all based on what we saw

 

[Deleted member 245254]

According to an interview with D1, players who want to run off a platform and edge-hog by pressing down on the analog stick are forced to jump. This can be somewhat rectified through tumbling towards the edge and grabbing it, though some characters' tumbles reach too far such as Bowser's. He mentions this at about 3:00.

I think there needs to be clarification on that statement because it does not sound correct (the jumping part).

 

[Senario]

I think there needs to be clarification on that statement because it does not sound correct (the jumping part).

Sounds perfectly right to me. I don't see how it doesn't sound correct seeing as he has more experience than most with the game.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Sounds perfectly right to me. I don't see how it doesn't sound correct seeing as he has more experience than most with the game.

I've not yet seen any video evidence despite the gigantic collection of footage we have, of a person literally jumping off the edge by running off the stage.

 

[Senario]

I've not yet seen any video evidence despite the gigantic collection of footage we have, of a person literally jumping off the edge by running off the stage.

I see, so pics or it didn't happen even if it is from a very credible source like D1. =/ maybe the casual players did not try to edge guard like that, it was an idea that popped into my head but did not try it out. However, credible source > pics or it didn't happen.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

I see, so pics or it didn't happen even if it is from a very credible source like D1. =/ maybe the casual players did not try to edge guard like that, it was an idea that popped into my head but did not try it out. However, credible source > pics or it didn't happen.

To each their own, I personally don't take simply words like gospel, I need to see it for myself. D1 being a credible source doesn't mean he can't be wrong or misinterpreting a mechanic...considering how little experience he has with the game (whether it's more than everyone else or not).

I would think most logical people would want to see something for themselves before they believe it blindly on the words of one man. This seems pretty familiar to another subject...

 

[Senario]

To each their own, I personally don't take simply words like gospel, I need to see it for myself. D1 being a credible source doesn't mean he can't be wrong or misinterpreting a mechanic...considering how little experience he has with the game (whether it's more than everyone else or not).

I would think most logical people would want to see something for themselves before they believe it blindly on the words of one man. This seems pretty familiar to another subject...

Presupposition, those who do not see the particular mechanic in person must be illogical. Wrong and a fallacy, also slightly poisoning the well by implying I am illogical. It is one mechanic of many that could be worked on for the game to get better for competitive players. Also this is the negatives thread. Not a place for debate of if you see a certain mechanic.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Presupposition, those who do not see the particular mechanic in person must be illogical. Wrong and a fallacy, also slightly poisoning the well by implying I am illogical. It is one mechanic of many that could be worked on for the game to get better for competitive players. Also this is the negatives thread. Not a place for debate of if you see a certain mechanic.

Just because it is the negatives thread doesn't mean you can mention negatives that don't exist.

 

[FG_Profess0r]

-Mario still uses F.L.U.D.D
-Link and Toon link have the same FS
-Zelda and sheik have the same FS
-DK's FS is the same (though somewhat improved)
-Little Mac's KO punch isn't a one hit kill on certain characters (Namely Rosalina)
-Zero Suit Samus's FS is too damn good
-Fox's voice
-No more dark Pit color for Pit
-The smash ball seemed to take way longer to break (though that could just be me)
-Greninja's FS is really hard to connect with
-Pikachu's down B is still very spamable
-Fox's FS stays on screen for too long
-Megaman's lack of good kill moves
And finally
-The Villager can pocket Megaman's F Smash, basically allowing him to carry a fully charged smash attack. That is scary.

 

[4cast]

I hate it how Most of the final Smash's in this game are either the same from Brawl overly Lazy of Transformations video below has every Final Smash we know of so far

Edit : Please tell me I'm not the only annoyed that Sheik has Light Arrow again

 

[Road Death Wheel]

all i have to say is that the wiiu version was a whole lot worse than the 3ds
3ds had a load less landing lag and more combo potential. grabs still go far though.
maybe the 3ds version is further along.

 

[Wazygoose]

Gonna be honest, it's too much like Brawl. I love Brawl, but I think this version needs to be much more like the original 64 version. It's not as if Brawl has perfected the fighting system of the Smash series, I don't know why they would stick to it so closely.

 

[ferioku]

Really hope this game appeals to both audience, everyone seems to hate this game, it seems very upsetting to see this game fall =(

 

[andalsoandy]

The Landing Lag on characters (time it takes to perform an attack after landing) takes way too long to give you an edge in the fight. That is my only concern.

Unless you're Mario. I swear he's gonna end up a top tier this time.

As for my (few) gripes:
-Mario has F.L.U.D.D. again.
-Little Mac is going to end up being a low tier because he has very few approach options. At least make one or two of his aerials decent moves so he's not as predictable.
-I couldn't play Pac-Man or Dedede
-It felt kind of like Brawl, but not as much as everyone says it is.
-The 3DS version felt much more complete. Like someone above mentioned, it's probably because it's releasing sooner.
-Greninja's FS is horrible. I've seen it attempted multiple times but only once was it ever landed.
-A lot of Final Smashes went unchanged, notably
-Mega Man's throws could have been so much more interesting.
-I heard complaints about the Yellow Devil, and even though I didn't play Wily Castle, he looks mad destructive and super annoying.

Besides those issues, I liked the demo a lot.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Unless you're Mario. I swear he's gonna end up a top tier this time.

As for my (few) gripes:
-Mario has F.L.U.D.D. again.
-Little Mac is going to end up being a low tier because he has very few approach options. At least make one or two of his aerials decent moves so he's not as predictable.
-I couldn't play Pac-Man or Dedede
-It felt kind of like Brawl, but not as much as everyone says it is.
-The 3DS version felt much more complete. Like someone above mentioned, it's probably because it's releasing sooner.
-Greninja's FS is horrible. I've seen it attempted multiple times but only once was it ever landed.
-A lot of Final Smashes went unchanged, notably
-Mega Man's throws could have been so much more interesting.
-I heard complaints about the Yellow Devil, and even though I didn't play Wily Castle, he looks mad destructive and super annoying.

Besides those issues, I liked the demo a lot.

Mario has less landing lag time than others or do you mean that Mario's F.L.U.D.D. does damage this time around?

So Sheik, Donkey Kong and Toon Link have the same Final Smash?

I mean, I can understand Toon Link since he is the incarnation of regular Link, but he should at least get something that resembles he is from the Wind Waker Universe.

Sheik should have been something related to Ninja skills, because Sheik should not have the same Final Smash as Zelda.

Donkey Kong's Final Smash was original, but boring and not very well implemented, it should have changed.

From what I saw from the Yellow Devil, he immediately respawns 5-10 seconds after he is killed.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Gonna be honest, it's too much like Brawl. I love Brawl, but I think this version needs to be much more like the original 64 version. It's not as if Brawl has perfected the fighting system of the Smash series, I don't know why they would stick to it so closely.

Opinions and all.

-I heard complaints about the Yellow Devil, and even though I didn't play Wily Castle, he looks mad destructive and super annoying.

Besides those issues, I liked the demo a lot.

Isn't that the whole point? It sounds more like he's serving his intended purpose to me.

 

[Wazygoose]

Opinions and all.

I don't know what you mean. What do you mean?

 

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

I feel this game had so much potential. Namco balancing, return of Mewtwo (and whether you like it or not, he's the most requested newcomer in the world), a new smash game that was faster than Brawl, with no tripping. An actual combo system. Faster, more fluid movement. I was very excited.

And then I played it.

Combo system extremely limited. Smash is a sandbox fighting game. In this game I feel that each character's combos are limited to just the moves in the combo. Say in Smash 4, you have Sheik, she can ftilt into utilt guaranteed. What if I wanna ftilt and then uair to start a juggle? The ftilt is too laggy for me to get the aerial follow up. I can't do my own combos. I feel restricted.

Movement is not fluid, and its not fun. Momentum from a dash into a jump is in EVERY SINGLE PLATFORMER. Its not in Smash4. Aerials are super laggy and don't allow for follow ups. The best movement is defensive movement-rolls, spotdodges, etc.

Every move is pretty unsafe on shield, so it becomes another game of who can poke each other to death.

I was hoping for a new experience. I don't want Melee 2. Get rid of L-Cancelling and wavedashing. I never liked the latter tbh. But replace them with just as meaningful techniques. This game doesn't do that.

I will say it, and I will stick with it until Sakurai shows me otherwise. Project M combines the best elements of all Smash games, and its still loaded with content, like alternate costumes, and new stages, etc. A hack, is better than the real game made by the real developer.

It really hurts reading that last sentence. Sadly, it's true.

 

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

This game in general just doesn't seem very fluid to me. I HATE being restricted when I'm playing video games, mainly when it comes to controls. It looks like movement doesn't flow very smoothly.

The craziest thing about it all is that I'm still going to get this game. Who knows, maybe this metagame will be something different from all previous entries. I probably shouldn't buy this game, but I can't help it. I love Smash.