Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Demo Impressions - Negatives

[Makaronileo]

Final smashes where the sadest thing actually...

 

[chipz]

Is it only me, or did the yellow devil appear to often?

Would be a nice option to be able to disable stage hazards

 

[TJ-Works]

Would be a nice option to be able to disable stage hazards

Think they've already answered that with FD versions of the majority of stages, including Wily's Castle.

 

[AustarusIV]

The Yellow Devil wasn't as impressive as Sakurai made it out to be. It was basically just a glorified 'Birdo' stage-hazard that appeared way too often on the stage, and died easily. The people at the event apparently shared the same sentiments with me, with some of them even saying that he "ruined a perfectly good stage".

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Depends.

Will that hot coffee be poured for me or on me?

I'll spare off topic - for you. Not on you.

 

[Foxtorres]

I was too used to the gamecube controller, I kept doing u-air instead of firefox to "recover" <_>

 

[chipz]

Is it only me, or did the yellow devil appear to often?

Would be a nice option to be able to disable stage hazards

Think they've already answered that with FD versions of the majority of stages, including Wily's Castle.

FD is different
maybe a battlefield version of the levels is closer to what I mean

 

[Makaronileo]

I just want it to be much rareer.
It looses its charm if it appear to frequantly.

 

[yahooda]

Think they've already answered that with FD versions of the majority of stages, including Wily's Castle.

Except then it's just Final Destination, that looks like the original stage. People want to be able to play on that stage with the platforms and without the stage hazards.

 

[HipsandChips]

Besides being tethered to who appeared to Mr. Potter from "It's a Wonderful Life" I really have no complaints about the 3DS one.

The stages all seemed really small on the Wii U version, but that was probably done on purpose.

 

[skstylez]

Knockback is really weird. It's hard to KO people and I was surviving some insanely high percents with good DI. It feels like the ceilings are especially high, and that momentum of knockback just stops pretty quickly

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

Besides being tethered to who appeared to Mr. Potter from "It's a Wonderful Life" I really have no complaints about the 3DS one.

The stages all seemed really small on the Wii U version, but that was probably done on purpose.

Really? a couple felt really large, like the boxing ring or coliseum.

This isn't from me but my girlfriend was saying that even on a 3DS xl the screen is just too small to see what is happening. Personally I thought it was fine but I felt it worth mentioning.

 

[MAtgSy]

-Load times were surprisingly long on both platforms. Though this'll probably change by release.
-****ing Lakitus would not die ever. What was I doing wrong?

 

[andalsoandy]

Our demo crashed ten minutes before they were closing it up. It made that irritating beeping noise that Project M makes when it crashes.

 

[MechaWave]

Honestly the only thing I can think of is the Pro Controllers. They are awful. Because of how they are used, they make almost everyone's impressions null, increased by the fact it was a FFA, with items, for only two minutes. At least the E3 demo used GameCube Controllers.

 

[D-idara]

Honestly the only thing I can think of is the Pro Controllers. They are awful. Because of how they are used, they make almost everyone's impressions null, increased by the fact it was a FFA, with items, for only two minutes. At least the E3 demo used GameCube Controllers.

The Pro controllers are amazing. You're just used to the GCN.

 

[TheDMonroeShow]

My biggest problem with the event (like the invitational) was by far the rules. At my best buy we got 2, 2 minute FFAs I would of much rather had a 1, 3 stock 4 minute match (Does anyone actually play ffa?)
And to top it all off we had to pick random for stage select both times and we got pilot wings twice which was really a disappointment since we were all hyped to try out the boxing ring.

As for the game itself I pretty much had the same issues as everyone else. A lot of the moves felt to laggy, combo potential feels absent once again, and the blast zones need adjusting.

It's pretty obvious that smash4 is already looking better then brawl and even competitively I think it already has more potential. I don't think smash4 needs advanced techs like Melee but if they fix the above problems and make the game not reward defensive/campy playI think we could have a really fun game to watch and play competitively.

 

[DownWitDaWaveDash]

Someone must tell sakurai everything in the game involving the ledge is terrible, thats all . Recovery, ledge games, ledge attacks, ledge sweetspots

-Free sweetspots return!
-Free ledge grabs return!
-Feature that was mentioned about air time and ground time having an impact on ledge grab doesn't exist! Its just free no matter what!
-Added lag on everything so that slow people can keep up
-The only character who can't recover is LittleMac, lol.
-SDI doesnt exist...?
-Rolling is safe... like really safe
-ZZS grab is safe but Samus's isnt?
-Pikachu..........




Everyone says they lived for a long time with good DI. I tell you, hold no direction and you probably still live.


I think that they say Melee was for advanced players, Brawl was for newer players, Smash4 Is for casual players. I had low expectations, and now my expectations have risen, we can only go up from here

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

Pro controller kinda sucked. The "c-stick" placement is so out of the way that I didn't even bother using it. Buttons were generally too low - that's the problem; everything is too high or too low - and it was awkward having to reach out of my way just to jump. X/Y should've been attacks while A/B were jump, in my opinion. I'm sure the controller will be more comfortable once we're allowed to customize our controls. Definitely sold on the GameCube adapter, though. The c-stick on the Pro is just too funky, and the adapter will be cheaper anyway.

The 3DS controls were even more perplexing. It's definitely a game not intended for handhelds. I have a planned control set-up that would probably ameliorate the issues I have with the controls, but from what I was given, I was fighting the controls more than my opponent. It was also pretty hard to see anything, even on the XL screen.

The game feels better and faster than Brawl, but that's not saying much. Faster than Brawl is still pretty slow, considering how sluggish that game is. What interested me most is how quick and maneuverable characters felt on the ground, while in the air, everything was ridiculously slow and floaty. I felt like fast-falling did nothing to increase my falling speed. The ground and air feel almost like completely different games - that's how disparate they are. It very much feels like an older or unpolished build of the game. To say nothing of the very high landing lag...If they could make the air game as fast and tight as the ground game, I'd be quite pleased.

Knockback scaling is pretty ridiculous. Attacks do high base knockback on average, making combos next to impossible, but they have extremely low growth/scaling, so I was landing charged smashes at 150+% and barely sending the opponent a few feet away. Definitely agree that the knockback itself feels very odd, with momentum suddenly just stopping and the blast zones seeming so very wide. I felt like I was being knocked very far off-screen, but was still capable of recovering.

Speaking of recovery, recoveries felt almost unnecessary. The jumps are incredibly high and the walls are very wide, so I found myself simply able to jump back to the stage, and past the ledge, almost every time. It makes little sense, then, that recoveries would be so powerful in this game (aside from Little Mac's). Greninja is guaranteed to come back to the ledge from almost anywhere, for example. I'm hoping they balance this out more, and fix up the blast zones, because right now, it feels like the off-stage game isn't risky enough, mitigating the emphasis on the high-risk, high-reward nature that's traditionally characterized it.

 

[SgtCephalopod]

I was really disappointed that you still can't get bonuses from playing normal matches, like in Melee. It's just a demo, not much is written in concrete, so they might bring it back. Probably not. That's the only thing I have to say, the game itself is really fun!

 

[shininimuss]

Although it can very well be called it's own Smash game with it's own playstyle, I still feel it relied heavily on Brawl. Not in the way it plays, but in the way it's presented.

When you compare N64 to Melee to Brawl, you can tell they are 3 completely different games with their own unique playstyle and personality. It's based on preference on which Smash you like best cause they're so different.

But in Smash 4, it felt like developers just took the same code from Brawl and modified it to make it faster, heavier, and smoother. A few other elements from games preceding Brawl are found, but Brawl is still mainly the source. I can totally see why this is the case since development time is so short, but I was hoping this Smash was going to be more unique with its own personality. The most personality we have out of this game are the little touches like colorful attack streaks, menu designs, and moveset/posture changes (Bowser and Yoshi are upright). Outside of that though, it's just a hacked brawl with more characters, stages, and customization.

,

I agree, they even gave sonic fox's down smash

 

[SKM_NeoN]

The one mechanic that makes Smash much different and more compelling than most fighting games is the way you beat your opponent: by keeping them off the stage. Yet for some reason this gameplay style is continually discouraged with every iteration after Melee. If I want to simply fight on a flat surface until the other guy dies I might as well play, well, every other fighting game in existence.

 

[ITALIAN N1NJA]

Would be a nice option to be able to disable stage hazards

I don't understand why instead of having a Final Destination version of each stage we can't just have a hazard switch. I don't want to hear from anyone that the reason its not being used is due to its use in Playstation All-Stars. That argument is silly and you know it. Having a hazard switch would be FAR less of a hassle than having to make Final Destination versions for everything. A hazard switch would solve literally every stage complaint. Think of the numerous stages that would become viable in a competitive setting. They can update the game now due to the technology of the Wii U Nintendo Network so in my eyes, there is no excuse. So much for being able to play the game how we want.

 

[chipz]

I don't understand why instead of having a Final Destination version of each stage we can't just have a hazard switch. I don't want to hear from anyone that the reason its not being used is due to its use in Playstation All-Stars. That argument is silly and you know it. Having a hazard switch would be FAR less of a hassle than having to make Final Destination versions for everything. A hazard switch would solve literally every stage complaint. Think of the numerous stages that would become viable in a competitive setting. They can update the game now due to the technology of the Wii U Nintendo Network so in my eyes, there is no excuse. So much for being able to play the game how we want.

its also not hard to code, it was one of the early features in Brawl+ iirc

 

[ITALIAN N1NJA]

its also not hard to code, it was one of the early features in Brawl+ iirc

All you need to do is remove the coding with the hazards and add that as a variant for the hazards off. Done.

 

[DownWitDaWaveDash]

Just another note, anyone outraged at the ledge mechanics? I still can't get that out of my head

 

[Deleted member]

I don't understand why instead of having a Final Destination version of each stage we can't just have a hazard switch. I don't want to hear from anyone that the reason its not being used is due to its use in Playstation All-Stars. That argument is silly and you know it. Having a hazard switch would be FAR less of a hassle than having to make Final Destination versions for everything. A hazard switch would solve literally every stage complaint. Think of the numerous stages that would become viable in a competitive setting. They can update the game now due to the technology of the Wii U Nintendo Network so in my eyes, there is no excuse. So much for being able to play the game how we want.

Oh my god this. A hazard switch would have been so much better than just the final destination forms. I would like to be able to play on Wily's Castle with the platforms and no Yellow Devil, rather than just a plain old flat version of Wily's Castle.

Also I know you've all probably heard stuff like this before, but the build used in the Invitational and the demos is apparently rather old (it was at the least finished sometime in April, considering Greninja's and ZSS' appearances). Not only is there still possibility of change, but some mechanics that were in the demo might have already been changed to begin with.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

The main negatives i experienced:

-Obnoxious startup and ending lag on many moves.
-Somewhat low hitstun. Better than brawl, but still not quite there.
-Odd knockback.

At minimum, I think these things should be fixed. Would make the game much, much more better. These were the negatives I took with me coming out of the demo.

 

[Beninator]

Marth has been made too slow in general, and I'm not crazy about how he feels. I played as Fox and Marth, and both seemed to have a lot more ending lag on their moves than I was expecting. Not sure if it's universal, but it ruined the feel of both characters.

Also, I know no one agrees with me, but I don't like the graphics style. Bright colors is all Nintendo ever does, and it's just as bad as the browns and greys on other consoles.

Oh, and Final Destination forms for every stage does not excuse the fact that almost literally every other stage is a gimmicky mess. Competitive play needs alternate layouts, not boring single platforms! Just give a hazard switch like Playstation Smash Bros. has!

EDIT: Totally forgot several more. The Wii U Pro controller is butt. The placement of the right stick is just plain stupid, because, unlike the left stick, your thumb constantly jumps from it to the buttons, so changing the position really messes you up more than the change in position of the left stick. Also, the game only runs in 16:9, because it's a Wii U game, which means I either have to play letterboxed, or with input lag...

 

[Blubolouis]

Didn't play it, but from watching it, I found the height of the double-jumps of pretty much every character way too high. It made using UpB not mandatory, and will hurt comboing at low%.

 

[GreatFalco]

I didn't played it neither, but I think the game is amazing. I mean, it's a party gaem, even Sakurai said it!
All that we need is a bunch of characters fighting evenly by mashing our controllers. This way my uncle and my cousin will be able to enjoy it the most. Deal with it.

Actually I wish they would give us options instead of taking them away. Looks like Brawl will be the path to follow in smash from now on. I hope they add dash dancing, add horizontal air momentum from dash and adjust knockback and lags to make combos possible. I think that's not much and would make ofensive game more rewarding than defensive, which is crucial to make a fighting game fun.

However, if my best hopes are focused in that they change things, I can't expect anything good from this game. Daamn, looks like they made melee by mistake.

 

[shrooby]

Just did a post in the "Positives," so I'll do one here as well.
My friend and I were actually able to go to E3 this year, and we dedicated the entire last day to both versions of Smash. We made sure to play as every character and play on every stage.
Okay, go!

• Hitstun has been increased, but not quite as much as I wanted it to be. I was able to pull of some brief combos, but other than that I was surprised how much closer it felt to Brawl than Melee. Funny 'cause I actually prefer Brawl's engine to Melee's, but I still wanted something that felt really different, just like how Melee, 64 and Brawl all feel very different. It certainly wasn't Brawl 2.0, but it didn't feel exceptionally different. Perhaps I only think that because I was only able to do 4-player free-for-alls with items, so I didn't really get to experience all of the engine differences in detail.
  
• I'm overall not really a fan of Wii Fit Trainer. I didn't really find her that fun compared to the other newcomers. She didn't really feel that unique to me. More-so just quirky. I'd normally really like that, but in this case I personally didn't find the quirkiness very interesting.
• Yellow Devil appears too often! His attacks were a bit less intrusive in terms of sheer power than I thought they would be, but I think he should only appear once every two minutes and then be on-screen for, I don't know, thirty seconds? I really love the stage other than that, too, but it's too much of a deal breaker.
  
• Marth's forward-air make me sad. Too much ending lag for me.

These are just the things that really stood out to me that I can think of right now. Should've typed this up right when I got back on Thursday...
I'm actually more upset over the stuff that wasn't there, to be honest. Mario Galaxy, Pyrosphere, Diddy Kong, Dedede; I was really looking forward to those in particular...
Greedy, I know.

 

[Generically Epic]

I hope we can get texture hacks working for this game... Pikachu needs a Marill and Raichu coloring

 

[Waver]

To be honest, I thought the lack of a C-stick/Right stick would make the 3DS version hard, since I use them for Up and Down aerials, but it still works great for me.

Well I guess I have no negatives for either version yet.

 

[TCRhade]

Okay.

-I've also experienced the input lag on the Wii U version. I main Bowser in these games, so maybe that's the problem (maybe he's still a slow clunky mess), but we'll see when I have the games.)
-While the 3DS version plays great, I'm not crazy about the Jumps. I found myself pushing up on the Circle Pad instead.
-The rules absolutely sucked. For all the time I spent in line because the whole goddamn planet wanted to play it, 8 minutes was my total play time.
-The TV that played back the Wii U version was too damn small. I have eye problems, so that also affected my experience. We'll see on my HD TV how it looks.

 

[Fedorable007]

In the one match I was able to play at smash fest, I took note of a few things

1. Much faster paced, and less floaty than Brawl.

2. Little Mac is one fast SOB

3. Air dodging is still finicky. As a guy who is accustomed to wave-dashing and carefully timing his one good dodge, this throws off my game entirely.

4. L-cancel still doesn't work like it used to, so I my reaction times become flawed and I find myself getting hit by moves I could easily dodge and my combos are cut short.

That's really all I got so far, I didn't get to try the 3DS version. So any additional insight is appreciated

 

[The Curious Volnutt]

Marth became Roy.
Slurp my tears Roy fans, you know you want to.

 

[Jalio_the_Brave]

One thing unrelated to gameplay that disappoints me is the fact that veteran franchises aren't getting a revamped victory theme, at least in this current build. That may change in the future.

Also, the announcer says the Veteran's names too similarly to the Brawl announcer. I feel like it's a different VA, but I really like hearing the new inflections and ways they say the names of characters. For example, in Brawl the announcer said Luigi questionably ("The winner is.. Luigi?"). I wish we could hear a new way to say it.
I like the way he says Little Mac, but Rosalina and Luma is a mouthful. These two things are pretty nitpicky, but negatives for me nonetheless

 

[star_seeker]

Although it can very well be called it's own Smash game with it's own playstyle, I still feel it relied heavily on Brawl. Not in the way it plays, but in the way it's presented.

When you compare N64 to Melee to Brawl, you can tell they are 3 completely different games with their own unique playstyle and personality. It's based on preference on which Smash you like best cause they're so different.

But in Smash 4, it felt like developers just took the same code from Brawl and modified it to make it faster, heavier, and smoother. A few other elements from games preceding Brawl are found, but Brawl is still mainly the source. I can totally see why this is the case since development time is so short, but I was hoping this Smash was going to be more unique with its own personality. The most personality we have out of this game are the little touches like colorful attack streaks, menu designs, and moveset/posture changes (Bowser and Yoshi are upright). Outside of that though, it's just a hacked brawl with more characters, stages, and customization.

It hurts even more when you realize almost all of the veterans reuse voice clips and animations straight from Brawl. Only reason they would add new voices clips or animations is if the voice actor changed or if there was a new move. The only veteran with new voice clips from the same voice actor is Kirby. Heck, even with the new announcer, you can tell he clearly tried to mimic the Brawl announcer more than anything. It's not just the deep voice that makes him similar to the Brawl announcer, it's the tone and way he says the characters' name (when he says "Luigi", it's in a distinct light and soft tone that is very similar to how the Brawl guy said it). When I play this game I'm heavily reminded of Brawl, and it's obvious why.

I probably just wanted this game to have a complete makeover with everything made from scratch like in the previous 3 games. But with only 2 years of development, that would be impossible. I dunno, I just have a gripe with people sticking too much on the past instead of making something completely new. It's one of the reasons why I don't support Project M.

I have absolutely no problems with the way it plays however. Again, although visually it's like Brawl, it plays uniquely enough to be its own game. And perhaps this might be the most user-friendly Smash ever because it plays very smoothly in terms of control.

Well, actually, (hate to be that guy) but Fox, Kirby, and Pit have voice changes. Kirby has new clips, while Fox and Pit have new voice actors. Not 100% sure about Fox, but his voice does sound different

 

[Stryker]

Looks so defensive tho...