Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

[PKNintendo]

Okay back on topic here. _Clinton explain to me the speed boosters Samus supporters are talking about. I really have no idea what they do.

 

[studly]

Mewtwo ran an "orphanage" where he was training the youth of the mushroom kindgdom to be his psychic slaves. Lucas and Ness Killed him when they became more powerful than him.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Okay guys, what have we decided on here? Samus or Ness?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Nothing yet. So far, it looks like Samus is the popular choice. But lets not jump into conclusions already. Ness actually has a fair shot.

 

[PowerBomb]

Okay back on topic here. _Clinton explain to me the speed boosters Samus supporters are talking about. I really have no idea what they do.

I'll explain it since it's likely that _clinton will say it isn't invincibility.

Well, when Samus has the Speed Booster and runs in a prolonged amount of time, she gains a
tremendous speed boost and starts to glow/create afterimages of herself. Due to the information given about the Speed Booster in-game, out of game (manuals) and what the game shows to you, it is generally decided Samus runs at Supersonic Speeds. It takes Samus nearly half a second to get the booster up and running (Dryn timed this). The Booster also gives Samus invincibility. This is never contradicted anywhere in the game. In fact, the Super Metroid manual even states the Booster makes you invincible. Said by the manual, proven in-game.

In short, the Speed Booster
-Makes Samus run blindingly fast
-Makes Samus invincible
-Has a very short start-up time

 

[Diddy Kong]

Speed Booster doesn't has a short start up time. It takes about 4 seconds for Samus to start Speed Booster, and she has to run a straight line. In most boss battles for example, you cannot do the Speed Booster cause Samus is constantly under fire.

Against Ness, she also has to deal with long range attacks as PSI Rockin, so I don't think she'll be able to use Speed Booster a lot.

 

[BSP]

PSI Rockin has some startup as well, and so does flash. I'm pretty sure the speed boosting in only a straight line is because of the game's 2-d structure.

 

[PowerBomb]

Speed Booster doesn't has a short start up time. It takes about 4 seconds for Samus to start Speed Booster, and she has to run a straight line. In most boss battles for example, you cannot do the Speed Booster cause Samus is constantly under fire.

Against Ness, she also has to deal with long range attacks as PSI Rockin, so I don't think she'll be able to use Speed Booster a lot.

You're thinking of the Stop Watch that has a four-second start-up. Samus' Booster has practically none. And Mariobrouser addressed the straight line thing.

 

[_clinton]

Yeah they did a good job on them. I didn't liked Marth and Ike much though. Who killed Mewtwo btw? Didn't get that. Maybe I skipped some episodes I'm thinking. I'm not sure if I saw ep. 8 or 9.

Ness and Lucas killed Mewtwo, then stuffed his remains into a pokeball, paybacks a ***** as they would say (Mewtwo is the one mostly responsible for making them snap)

 

[Diddy Kong]

You're thinking of the Stop Watch that has a four-second start-up. Samus' Booster has practically none. And Mariobrouser addressed the straight line thing.

Yeah, but the Stop Watch is also kinda ********. Does it even work on boss-like characters? Like O-Chuck (?) and Bowser (in the 2 occasions you fight him).

Regardless, the Speed Booster is a powerful move, and deffinatly unstoppable if Samus can pull it off. So it's not like that Speed Booster should grant Samus a deffinate win. At least, against characters with good enough projectiles (****, it's like I'm actually talking about Smash Bros. here). It doesn't work against bosses also.

Samus is deffinatly a powerful character, but we shouldn't make her more powerful than she is.

EDIT: @ _clinton: What episode do you see that in? I think I skipped a few, and just watched the last one. Couldn't quite understand a few things. And why did Kirby kill Ness in the end then? And what did Bowser look like? The last episode I saw, Mario was prepared to go and kill him, and safe Peach.

 

[PowerBomb]

Yeah, but the Stop Watch is also kinda ********. Does it even work on boss-like characters? Like O-Chuck (?) and Bowser (in the 2 occasions you fight him).

dunno, but I don't think it worked on boss characters. Ask someone else, wrong person to ask here

Regardless, the Speed Booster is a powerful move, and deffinatly unstoppable if Samus can pull it off. So it's not like that Speed Booster should grant Samus a deffinate win. At least, against characters with good enough projectiles (****, it's like I'm actually talking about Smash Bros. here). It doesn't work against bosses also.

I know. But it's ridiculously easy to pull it off.
You're not supposed to pull it off on bosses, there isn't any room to successfully execute the move.

Define good enough projectiles.

 

[the king of murder]

Question!
Is her Speed Booster still active if she jumps or does she have to run permanent? Is she able to preform it in the air or only on ground? I didn't play the 2D Metroid games so I'm not sure.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah it's just running straight, but imagine doing that against other characters who spam projectiles al the time.

What I meant with a good enough projectile, is something that travels fast enough to reach Samus before she goes Speed Boosting. Something which could interupt her. Like in the battle against SA-X in Metroid Fusion. You bascially have room enough to Speed Boost, but since your under constant fire, you can't do it. That's kinda what I mean.

Not many characters could do that I guess. Pokemon and StarFox characters maybe. Kirby and the Mother boys also.

 

[PowerBomb]

Mother boys have enough lag in their attacks for Samus to start boosting. Same with all Pokemon, but Pokemon have the added disadvantage of being range limited.

Since it's a 2-D game (when you CAN Speed Boost), you can only run straight. There isn't anything to say Samus can't run in a circle. She just has to run.

Speed Booster can remain in effect if you jump + Space Jump correctly. When you land it will wear off. Morph Ball Speed Boosting can give Samus some time to blast off.

Off-topic Q, but has anyone gotten HG/SS yet?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well, in the 3D games most Pokemon attacks look ranged enough. Hell, even Tackle is ranged there. And I'm pretty sure things like a Thunderbolt and Ice Beam would have more range than the games show. Blizzard for example deffinatly has more range.

Dunno about the Mother boys, but as _clinton said before, (or atleast somewhat like it) is that all those fire work animations in say.. PSI Rockin Omega would do seperate damage alone, and that the number at the end is just the total damage. It could very well be a combo move like _clinton said. But it's never stated how ranged the move is really...

But anyways, Pokemon and Mother boys can paralyse Samus, so she probably couldn't run at all if she'd face them.

No, I don't have GS/SS yet. I'm short on money. Or at least, spendable money. And somehow, you cannot download DS roms anymore... <_< Working roms I mean, you can download them but they won't load.

 

[the king of murder]

Speed Booster can remain in effect if you jump + Space Jump correctly. When you land it will wear off. Morph Ball Speed Boosting can give Samus some time to blast off.

Off-topic Q, but has anyone gotten HG/SS yet?

Alright then.

If her Speed Booster really takes under 1 second to activate then I don't see how projectiles would be effective.

And yeah I was thinking about getting Heartgold but is the game really that good like everyone is saying?

 

[PowerBomb]

Fast-enough projectiles could be effective, but Samus' Screw Attack is also a defensive behemoth. It can serve as a somewhat effective back-up in a tight spot.

Have you played the original GSC games?

Well, in the 3D games most Pokemon attacks look ranged enough. Hell, even Tackle is ranged there. And I'm pretty sure things like a Thunderbolt and Ice Beam would have more range than the games show. Blizzard for example deffinatly has more range.

Well, they ARE effected by range and possibly line of sight (Dig). Tackle isn't ranged, it physically touches the foe... and then ****ing Static or Poison Point activates... ****

Dunno about the Mother boys, but as _clinton said before, (or atleast somewhat like it) is that all those fire work animations in say.. PSI Rockin Omega would do seperate damage alone, and that the number at the end is just the total damage. It could very well be a combo move like _clinton said. But it's never stated how ranged the move is really...

Could is the key word here, but making assumptions like that is hard to do since there is no proof or actual basis for it, just theory. And I dunno 'bout the range of the mother boy's attacks.

But anyways, Pokemon and Mother boys can paralyse Samus, so she probably couldn't run at all if she'd face them.

Pokemon paralysis only renders the foe immobile at a 30%(?) chance and cuts the speed by half(?). Thunder Wave is also range limited and has a start-up and minor ending lag. Dunno bout PSI Paralysis thing.

No, I don't have GS/SS yet. I'm short on money. Or at least, spendable money. And somehow, you cannot download DS roms anymore... <_< Working roms I mean, you can download them but they won't load.

Look for a reliable emu? We're not allowed to talk about rom DL links, right?

 

[the king of murder]

lol Samus is broken. Especially Sonic Boom that causes a ripple through reality itself.

Anyway I didn't play the original GSC but watched videos about it. Elite four was too weak in my opinion and there are other parts I didn't really like about the game. I prefere Fire Red/Leaf Green. And since I got almost every Pokemon in the game I don't see why I should get it right now.

 

[PowerBomb]

lol Samus is broken. Especially Sonic Boom that causes a ripple through reality itself.

Anyway I didn't play the original GSC but watched videos about it. Elite four was too weak in my opinion and there are other parts I didn't really like about the game. I prefere Fire Red/Leaf Green. And since I got almost every Pokemon in the game I don't see why I should get it right now.

People mostly got HGSS due to nostalgia from the original GSC games, which YOU HAD TO PLAY in order to love. HGSS also contains nearly 450/493 Pokemon in the game, and it has the most content available. In fact, HGSS was created to reduce dependency on the GBA games for certain Pokemon and to increase DSi sales (no GBA games needed = DSi).

 

[Kewkky]

Question!
Is her Speed Booster still active if she jumps or does she have to run permanent? Is she able to preform it in the air or only on ground? I didn't play the 2D Metroid games so I'm not sure.

Just to clarify:

Yeah, Speed Booster is still active if Samus jumps. That's how you get through some of the obstacles: jump over them while speed boosting, then continue running where you land. Speed Booster never stops until you force her to stop, or hit an unbreakable obstacle. However, if you crouch then she has the choice of either jumping forward (pretty much going on for an amazingly long distance while invincible) or upwards (same thing), also known as the Shinespark. Once she hits something, afterimages of herself appear and move at perpendicular directions from where she jumped towards.

She can only start the Speed Booster on ground, but she can jump and keep it active if she doesn't stop or lower her speed while running/jumping.

 

[the king of murder]

I know what you mean. I will still play D/P because I don't want to trade almost all my Pokemons from the older generations into newer games everytime. I will ask my friend if he trades me a shiny Gyarados.

MU:
So Samus wins?

 

[PowerBomb]

Aww...shiny Gyarados' aren't very rare at all now due to the Lake of Rage... so now, regular Gyarados' are going to be awesome. Huzzah!

So Kewkky, when did you become a mod? Never noticed it before o_o

On-topic: Yeah, Ness can't do anything that I know of if Samus is boosting. Samus can slowly whittle Ness' HP down until he eventually runs out of healing items and PP (same way Samus beats Mario, really).

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Alright, here's the next MU.

Vs.

(Size obviously isn't accurate, which Mewtwo > Sonic)

Current Match-Up:
THE SPEEDY HEDGEHOG Vs. THE PSYCHIC

Sonic Vs. Mewtwo

Vs. :mewtwo:

Round 6, Match 3.

Overall Results

Wins +6:

,

Wins +5:


Wins +4:

,

Wins +3:



Wins +2:

, , , , , ,

Wins +1:

, :mewtwo:, , , , ,

Neutral:

, , ichu:

Loss -1:

, , , , , ,

Loss -2:

, , ,

Loss -3:

,

Loss -4:

,

Loss -5:



Loss -6:

,

 

[_clinton]

You have.. different ways, it seems.

I don’t have “different ways,” I just know a lot about all of the characters to the point where I could defend any of them of my choosing really depending on the situation.

And it’s not that I like Ness A LOT better than Samus for my reason on why I choose Ness over her, it’s more along the fact that I have yet to see Samus create her own world/destroy a world w/o outside assistance like I’ve seen with some of the other characters here, the second I see Samus take that gun arm of hers (or at least something on her body to do it) and blow up a planet with it INSTEAD of just hitting the self destruct switch that a lot of planets seem to have is when I’ll slap Samus with “world/galaxy/universe destroying powers” item like I’ve gone and done with a other certain characters (Luigi to a point, Ness, Lucas, and so on).

No, we were simply just not allowing Lucas that power. =)

Which is BS, because then you aren’t following the rules in regard to what the thread says, Lucas gets the power canon wise.

IIRC, Jeff should still use his bazooka and bottle rockets. I'm thinking that Samus would still be able to use most of her abilities as well. Especially cause of her equipment.

Ah no, Jeff’s ****ed if he is hit by paralysis in EB, bottle rockets and bazooka need the use of his arms/legs like firing his gun does.

Based off how the status effect works, Samus (hell most of this thread really) is ****ed if they get hit by the thing.

Still, Ness' paralysis is pretty dangerous.

Well yeah ^_^

Because it looks like a orange? He acts without thinking a lot, and that gets him into trouble. Especially in Wario Ware, but I cannot really give good examples. You could be right.

I haven’t played Wario Ware, but I really think those games would be under things like “Mario Party/Kart/not canon” examples.

As far as acting w/o thinking, how does he do that as well?

I mean the reason why a lot of his games have come along such as Wario Land: Shake it was because of the idea of landing a bottomless coin sack for his trouble, because he clearly didn’t give a **** about that world until the idea of making money came up and therefore became worth his trouble, he isn’t like Mario, Sonic, and so on in that they would have rushed into that right away. On another note, a violin would be the perfect musical instrument for Wario to learn, because the one thing that would have made that opening a lot better would have been for Wario to play the violin instead of picking his nose. ^_^

Also, I don’t know if he is a “genius” really, but I certainly don’t think he is dumb enough to eat a bomb. Of course the ones who look like they would really be tricked is DK/Diddy with real info from their canon to show it, but I don’t feel like saying what if situations like you guys have with Wario.

Well, there are a lot of less popular characters who are misunderstood. I'm just making sure the Kongs aren't. I'm sure you can relate.

You at least don’t see me saying such and such has unlimited “can’t be hurt no matter what” no matter how much it doesn’t make sense do you? (unless it is to point out how stupid it is)

But.. we didn't argue flying now did we?

You brought up Diddy Kong using things like Funky Kong’s stuff actually.

Okay, so far I've seen nothing too impressive. Lasers and fire, DK can fend of with the Sound Wave attack. At least, DK could protect himself from lightning with it. Lasers aren't very different I'm thinking... Around 8.20, you can see him reflecting lightning here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAK1bpGPQnI

If the lightning attack you are speaking of was from that bear enemy at 8:20, I’m going to have to disagree with you on that, because that is just a “roar” not a “lightning blast” as far as I can tell. Still though, when talking about some other foes that seem to do have lightning, it seems DK’s sound wave is like Wario’s quake at least, in that it stuns foes and knocks other foes off guard and such. So I guess it could protect from stuff.
Again, my point though is that it doesn’t matter if DK can defend vs. the projectiles, because Wario can do a better job at it in the long run, so DK still has to get close. (In case something like arty Wario didn’t show that)

And do not mind watching further than that. I personally think Jungle Beat and Wario Land: Shake it look pretty similar in some way. Might pick it up when I got the money and my Wii repaired.

Well you can get it for like less than $20 now or so, and overall besides the fact that a lot of its reply value comes from cheap fake difficulty things such as 100% completing the level in 50 different ways or so (called “missions” as well I might add): such as “collect so many coins, don’t get hit, don’t use the check point,” you know…stuff like that, along on top of the usual treasure hunt (which is ok IMO, I don’t mind that part of Wario games, just stupid things like what I just said in “don’t get hit.” If I want to challenge myself I’ll do it myself my way instead of the game making me do it to unlock something).

Also as far as unlocking things, the only things you have are a sound test, and two movies or so. However, I like things such as the art style (it suits Wario IMO), I mean there is a lot of detail put into this game overall, the music (so having to unlock the sound test only serves at pissing me off more lol ^_^), and the overall gameplay (for the most part, because like I said “missions” are overall annoying IMO), I mean they do keep you entertained overall with the controller (besides Wario’s basic smash everything that moves, you have plenty of other different types of gameplay; such as that submarine shoot them up for one example, but there is a lot more overall, of course by the end of the game chances are you would have “shaken” things up 9000 times or so on top of that).

So, it is overall good IMO despite the downsides it does have.

What have I said again, and what have you proofed?

I didn’t prove anything, I just was making a point because I managed to shorten my reply for that point, so I didn’t have to repeat myself/make the post longer. ^_^

Game mechanics or not, Mario does die easier than DK, and never faces him head on.

You don’t seem to understand what game mechs. not making sense means, so let me remind you, if they contradict several points of established canon by having the stuff, then they don’t count for ****. Mario is weaker in that game on PURPOSE (such as losing a life from a fall when he has been shown falling off things like large buildings and being just fine canon wise).

Still, it's not canon to both character's universes anyhow but yeah... it's all we got for a comparison.

And it isn’t a good comparison when Mario has got by far more impressive feats of strength under his belt. The game is only a reference to what Mario was “once like” as in a normal human. These days Mario is more like Superman and such.

Besides, compared to the castle, Mario seemed a lot bigger himself as well... Or the castle isn't as big as a normal castle.

Or they just didn’t feel like making the thing accurate to scale just for the hell of it, ever notice they do that in games all the time in general, EB does it as well: unless you think Ness is some giant in Fourside, hell if anything it gives a better idea of how big it really is, and how SMALL Ness is. They happen to make Ness seem like he is 8x bigger than the average street sidewalk or so if you look at it right, but they clearly aren’t saying he is 8x bigger then it.

I mean I certainly don’t think Mario had to struggle to enter the door there, do you?

And still, Mario’s other strength references are still better than DKs, I mean we have canon proof that he can hurt Wario even, a guy who has been shown to have a very high resistance to pain in general in case you’ve forgot that part.

But I know an easy way to stop this, please show me DK’s best example of strength, because if the best thing you have is him knocking K. Rool out of his escape jet in DKC2, do keep in mind that Mario knocks characters like Bowser around (in SMG for one example) as if he was just a rag doll, and Bowser has taken buildings falling on him and was still fine, but is clearly hurt whenever Mario hits him.

They don't. No game I every played every made 100% sence.

Well good.

I know, which is why him building a time machine in serveral seconds may be taken less serious than usual...

And yet he never has really done anything that would make him stupid.

That doesn't mather. Maybe he's less playable because he sucks so much? Baby Bowser at least is far more useable than him. He even has a unique ability with fire, while Wario only is holding a magnet while still slowing down Yoshi...

Yes, Baby Bowser is more useful: he can only have one of those fireballs per screen, and they are slow as hell (yoshi moves faster than them, with just normal slowed down movement), and Yoshi can’t make eggs while Bowser is on him, you have to rely on egg blocks, egg plants, and such. However, at least they are stronger than eggs, at least.

You saying Baby Wario sucks and the only plus he has is getting coins easier is a bit off, you are forgetting the fact that the magnet attracts metal platforms, and blocks (also red coins count as coins as well), and can still make eggs at least. Baby Wario’s only real minus is a slightly shorter flutter jump/running speed, which isn’t that bad, because DK and Bowser have that issue as well (and even though Peach has the longest lasting one, I still find the timing for Mario’s to be easier, plus he can go further because of the running jumps). However, Baby Wario has good tools for collecting things in general, I mean guess what happens if you have to bounce an egg as DK or Peach? Guess what happens with Bowser when you need to bounce an egg but the only source of eggs you have is enemy made?

Still you've got to admit that Baby DK & Baby Mario are the most useful babies in that game.

Mario is in a tier of his own, and it is because of game mechs. for DK (oh and I think you are undermining Peach), because like I said already baby DKs skills are really nothing new (except the tackle which isn’t that useful) for a yoshi’s list of things they’ve done.

Physically, yes. DK could very well be stronger. However, it'd depend on Bowser's size. And Bowser might be stronger in Bowser's Inside Story as well, so I'm ruling that out. Then again, it's been a loooong time since the last DK game.

Bowser moved an island with his strength alone at “normal” size. DK has yet to move a large chuck of land.
And there is no way DK can take a hit better than Wario can, when he taking “hits” and “turning them” on foes is a large part of his style in general. Hell I question the idea that a orange nade would OHKO him in general based off some of the other things I’ve seen Wario live from.

In some cases I'd agree, but in general you'd prefer the explosive eggs. But enough about that.

Explosive eggs really don’t matter, aiming matters more. And because of how you’ll need 100% a lot, I would prefer the bouncing eggs.

I agree.

Good, then for the future stop talking about Yoshi’s Island DS as a REAL measure (because like I said, Mario having the star and Bowser’s stuff do count) for any character besides Yoshi.

Yes I agree. However, I'd like to completely rule out Yoshi's Island DS, and just NOT call Mario, DK, Peach, Wario and Bowser "Star Childeren".

Why? The only character where the term “star children” really doesn’t mean **** for is DK, which could easily be a mistake (no one has said that Nintendo does a good job at checking facts before this you know) it works for the other Mario characters and explaining why they have the powers that they do (oh and how “stars” in general keep showing up in Mario’s canon).

Of course DK could make sense if they just removed the oldest Mario games from canon, and ever sense YI in general they seemed to have stopped caring about that.

Oh and as for the Yoshi at the end, I’m thinking that yoshi would be the one who you play as in general (the green one), because canon wise; Yoshis have been shown to grow fast.

When has Mario been carrying unlimited stars?

I said he can “recharge” his star’s power. Not that he had unlimited stars.

Yes, I agree here as well. But I feel statistics are important as well.

Statistics are only important for the canon that contains the character:

Ness having 900+ HP doesn’t tell us much you know as saying Ness having more HP BY FAR than any other party member (to the point where Jeff and Paula put together wouldn’t equal Ness’ max HP at that, and that Paula and Poo put together is still just barely around Ness’ also says something).

Samus having 14 100 HP energy tanks, and 4 100 reserve energy tanks also doesn’t tell us much, but sadly we don’t have any way to measure Samus’ health of course as far as I can see (but we have a way to measure her defense at least)

Mario being stronger than Luigi doesn’t tell us that much as well (but saying that it is pretty much Mario that does all the “heavy lifting” of the two with super strength does say something!).

Huh, you can play the instruments in the last battle? Yeah well, of coarse they wouldn't work then.

They do work there though; they tell K. Rool where you are at when something comes up like him NOT being able to see you, so if you do it wrong you get your *** kicked for trying to play them.

Also check this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uTVKSdbXxA&feature=related. I bet DK would have a lot of a easier time boxing K.Rool if he went out on him like this. FYI; that's the final boss of the game.

You mean actually hit K. Rool while he’s down? Yeah I don’t see that working because K. Rool only pretends to be knocked down a lot, chances are DK wouldn’t want to try that on a foe that isn’t really hurt, it wouldn’t end well.

Yeah sure, as I said before the characters are very similar. So I'm not saying DK wins by a lot, but I still believe he would win.

How may I ask? Wario has been shown to move large chucks of land with just his strength alone (Wario Land: Shake it is the best example of course), is fast enough to break through a large amount of obstacles, and on top of that he does it w/o slowing down and is able run across water along with that at those speeds (So he does a “Sonic” in that case, and like I said, think Samus when she is using her speed booster and Wario Land: shake it is again my reference), and is pretty much made out of steel as far as taking a hit goes (just in general sense Wario Land 2).

He can make his own projectiles/defense obstacles, so he actually has “unlimited ammo” in a way with only using “paint.”

He pretty much has proof of doing what DK can do physically, and more.

I beg to differ. I beg to differ, a lot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xnm0CGuAQ9o.

Ok, that still wasn’t my point (notice that the foe in Kirby I was referencing was Kirby’s friend Adeleine/Ado/whatever, who fights by making art). However, good example with Army Dillo none the less, still has been done with Wario though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAYWl8dHeVo&feature=related

Oh wait a second, that one boss isn’t like Army Dillo at all (I just wanted to list it), so how about this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hopKlN_fukQ&feature=related

This foe has a mega buster, would that count as heavy artillery, because I’m pretty sure arm cannons do count? And I hope I don’t have to list mines and bombs as something Wario can deal with (I mean he is usually associated with them anyway).

Not that the Coconut Gun needed much conviction as they're you know.. coconuts (which are known to kill people a lot by falling out of trees, no joke) but the Peanut Popgun might've seemed a little bit lowly to you no?

I would call the coconut gun as more of a rifle.

Yes that's quite impressive. But I could see DK beating that guy as well. Wario throws him around similairy as DK throws around Ghastly / Cactus King - except he doesn't go on a punching or kicking rampage after that.

Are you saying DK wouldn’t hit someone when they are down? Because I’m pretty sure the videos with DK JB disagree with you in general if you are saying that, because I never saw the Ghastly King launch a special beam canon, fly, launch several energy projectiles that bounce around, fire waves, lightning mines, or shock waves in general. I mean the Shake King is also strong physically.
Of course I’m thinking you think DK could cancel every projectile the guy does with his shock wave right? So tell me, does that work for the Ghastly King’s stuff and everything just in general, or is there something that it wouldn’t work on?

I mean I’ve seen the Ghastly King launch fire balls, but they don’t really do much, and I read a guide about the fight as well, the thing is just mainly trying to “punch and kick” you as well/match you physically. Overall I’d say the Shake King does a better number as far as 1st impressions go in fights, because he is as strong magically as he is physically.

If your equal leveled to the dinosaurs, they're a tough bunch.

No, not really. Dinos aren’t much of a threat to me and I’ve done a low level game for EB. They are actually a break compared to other areas before like for example Stonehenge (and canon wise Ness and his team are too powerful for that place to hold them even). And again it doesn’t really matter if they do start out “equaled” anyway or whatever you call it (even though they don’t, because the game also drops hints that Dinos aren’t the main sight to see there), Ness grows stronger than them to the point where they will drop like flies to him according to the game “backing up” Ness becoming stronger as you play so that leveling up makes sense unlike with other games such as Metroid/Mario RPGs.

But I was you know, just saying. Because if I didn't, people might say for example DK's enemies are weak. Which they aren't.

K, but how are they better than what some other characters have to deal with?

I'm not saying how he could really. Sound Wave attack is you know, sound. So it comes out as fast as sound. Even if Wario would be able to cancel it, he'd have to do that pretty **** quickly. What's a quake attack going to help? Especially considering it's range. DK has the advantage here.

I’m saying that DK has to stay off the ground, wall, ceiling when doing it.

Also, the Sound Wave attack has many more properties. But I sure you'll understand after seeing some Jungle Beat vids.

The only difference between the things is that they have different areas of effect, because I’ve seen the sound wave affect plenty of things that the quake could be done with as well. Anything on a wall, ceiling, or just standing on the ground is affected by the quake, where as the wave just has an area effect around DK.

At least, in my opinion. DK could easily handle that boss as well. As a mather of fact, lots of bosses in DK games are fought that way. Even in the original DKCs.

No offense but I haven’t seen any foes that DK has fought yet that Wario really couldn’t handle as well sense you keep saying it. Of course so far I like what I’ve seen with Wario Land than what is with DK JB, but they both seem to have a lot of the same issues (tons of repetition in how you do thing, but I guess I could say that with a lot of games).

Yes, people. I'm sure it'd take some time though.

Well he did it when Mario was off in SML1 actually, so “time” it took, but how much really? (As in how long did it take Mario to save Daisy?)

I couldn't load like half of those vids, so I didn't saw much but thanks for the uploading anyway.

=,(
I’m a sad panda now.

Might have to look for that vid when DK and Diddy escape from KAOS, as they were talking about stuff when they broke free.

K, take your time and look for the stuff.

That might've been special cases, especially with the Mario characters. I'm thinking that if say.. Pokemon Trainer used Alakazam on Peach and he used Hypnosis, that it'd work just as fine as usual on Peach.

Silly rabbit, Alakazam doesn’t use hypnosis (yeah I know it learns Dream Eater WTF huh?). And it wouldn’t work because there is canon proof that Peach can avoid “forced” sleep (and canon proof in pokemon as well showing that forced sleep won’t always work).

No, I was just saying, if Wario gets abilities he doesn't really get to use all the time, then so could DK.

Um excuse me, but last I checked I haven’t said that Wario is going to start the fight ON FIRE! (So where have I said Wario gets abilities he doesn’t get to use all the time is what I’m asking?)

If you can pass that off as completely true, you might actually be able to put Wario on top tier yes... I'm not commenting on this. But remind that DK's 'nearly' impossible to kill as well in Jungle Beat. Or you could just completley ignore the bananas, which you won't... 2000 + beats and taking 5 beats damage maximum per attack from a boss is pretty **** solid as well as I would think.

So, what about all of the other games where DK’s health isn’t tied to his “score” system and he can’t take 400+ hits before he dies? I for one am personally aware of course that one hit from everything is also off of the truth of what DK can really take (DKC, DK:JC), and I also don’t think he has the same vitality as Chunky (less IMO I mean it is Chunky Kong, who is by far the best character in that game), Lanky (maybe more but I’m not sure, I mean it is kind of hard to judge someone who can pull of a Mr. Fantastic with his arms and compare that to what he can take don’t you think?), Diddy, or Tiny Kong (well yeah I’m thinking he can take more than the two kids for that game) from DK64.

So my point is DK’s “defense” stat and vitality stat is unknown right now (so I’d rather just compare him to a normal ape and go from there).

Again, if you can make everyone believe Wario IS immortal, I'm not stopping you. But, Wario's still able to die in all games after that so...

Yeah and Samus’ speed booster has never been said to be invulnerable in more than one time (unlike Wario where he at least has more than one mentioning of it), and I could argue that anything after Wario Land 2 where he dies is just a game mech. because it hasn’t been taken back yet (like Samus’ side is making BS with in regards to the speed booster).

I’m thinking you should have erased this part of your post when you saw the bottom part of my post Diddy.

I'm thinking you could put DK around there as well.

I still haven’t seen DK move some “chuck of land” like I have with Mario (fun fact there is more than the castle that he throws), Bowser, or Wario.

And yes Bowser's strong as hell. But I think that mostly comes from Super Paper Mario and Bowser's Inside Story, where he's actually playable, not when you fight him playing as Mario.

Bowser “breaks things” all the time actually in the Mario games even w/o him around as a PC. I think you are forgetting that Mario “breaks things” as well for the main reason as to why Bowser doesn’t show off his best examples of super strength when Mario’s around.

Yeah but DK beats similar stuff. Sure, there's no actual demon in DK games, but there's enough other stuff. Platform games are pretty similar anyways in those things, especially if they're coming from the same company.

Ok, I guess DK has saved the world a “few times” before (somehow, sense when did K. Rool go from just wanting DKs bananas to wanting the world again?). Nothing like Mario (who is “the god**** Mario” you know), Wario (Wario seems to get thrown into other dimensions a lot in his hunt for $$$$$$ and said places need to be saved…for the right price), or Toad though (Toad gets all the *****es you know ^_^).

True, altough the sharks weren't there in the GBA version (unfortunatly, I always liked that). But it seemed more like comic relief anyway when K.Rool fell. Just look at how many times he bumps his face into the ground.

I don’t know if the sharks or the falls were just “comic relief” (he takes a lot to beat up you know), of course why don’t you take it? DK taking on a guy like K. Rool (and only being kidnapped two times so far off the top of my head) only adds to your argument of trying to prove DK doesn’t suck you know.

I thought it was more about the character's general abilities, how they fight and how their moves work.

How they fight, their general abilities, and how their moves work is what canon is.

And DK got his Banana Hoard back, there's nothing really impressive in game scripts I think... Wario taking back his castle is what that game was probably all about anyway. So it's it logical he gets it back..?

Wario didn’t have a castle before meeting that genie, that genie is from Wario Land for GB, which was the 1st time you the player can play as Wario, canon wise Wario was poor before then (and pissed off about it).

Wario robs the notorious Captain Maple Syrup blind in Wario Land for GB (who btw Captain Syrup is the type of gal that got away with robbing Mario), she didn’t take it that well and lost her home because of it.

Captain Syrup than robbed the bulk of her stuff back from Wario in Wario Land 2, and this happened to her at the end for stealing back “her money” from Wario:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2fjIf_JXlo

Naturally this is the end result of their 3rd meeting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_rNtWitUTk

On that note, I personally don’t think it is a good idea to steal from someone who has sort of made you homeless two times, but that is just me.

I haven't seen that yet. But would he be completly immune to electricity??

I’m pretty sure it does unless there is a “bad wire” of some sort (fun fact about electricity, it’s easy to **** up).

He still learns Thunderbolt and Thunder by leveling up.

And we have no idea what those two moves tell us about his control over electricity and if he is dealing with how many amps or volts in the things control.

Yes I think so. Quick Attack for example, and how he outruns things like Pidgeot (bad example).

Pidgeot has a higher speed rating actually if you are going by the RPG game mechs, and has canon proof backing that speed rating to make sure it will be semi high in all examples.

Pikachu doesn’t have **** to make sure it will always have a high rating in that stats (of course I guess the fact that it is a mouse should say something about speed).

So your saying, if Wario gets hit by lighting he doesn't get hurt, but it benefits him?

I don’t know if “reaction abilities” are an actually benefit to Wario, seeing as to how he still has to go through the motions of them.

Well, Wario can be hurt in other games, so I think it doesn't hold power anymore

I’ve already commented on the “newer games” things and that stuff.

And that Wario can stop Speed Booster, doesn't mean he'll be able to beat Samus.

Well Samus seems to have the tools to pass by Wario’s projectile defense, so Wario would have to get closer, so the question is can he? I think so, that speed stat from Wario Land: Shake it (and Wario Land 4) also shows more proof that Wario’s speed is like Samus’ booster (in that he has to run for a bit before it starts up, but unlike Samus he starts off at the same speeds for all of it), and has been shown to be pretty much made of iron, so I think he can get close. However, I don’t feel like starting a Samus vs. Wario right now so I won’t say more than that.

Of course overall for anyone, if Wario gets his “hands” on you, he is going to rob you blind, that is what I’ll say ^_^

I'm not seeing how Wario being immortal is more logical than Samus being invincible while Speed Boosting. Samus IS invincible while Speed Boosting in game -and all games where Speed Booster is in- but Wario isn't immortal in all games. That doesn't mean I think Speed Booster is completly unstoppable though.

Samus isn’t invulnerable in all the games with the speed booster active, there are plenty of things that stop it and/or do damage to Samus in all of the games it is in.

So invulnerability should basically be banished you say? I like that...

Well I don’t mean just removing the move, just the illogical stuff about it (Samus’ speed booster is only supersonic speed in more mentionings talking about it than not, which is why she plows through most everything, because she is moving at 700+ MPH).

I mean pretty much everything here can be explained to the point where it isn’t “true” invulnerable.

PSI Rockin has some startup as well, and so does flash. I'm pretty sure the speed boosting in only a straight line is because of the game's 2-d structure.

And Rockin’s start up is only like the way it is because of the RPG structure, god people it is an explosion of energy. Notice the “start up” for moves that aren’t in a lag free environment such as a action RPG (like Kingdom Hearts or various fighting games)?

God and I like how you think Ness is at the – for this fight, he can shut her down with one move if it hits and is resistance to ALL of her weapons (unless she has some psychic attack I’m unaware of).

 

[studly]

mew two would destroy sonic

IMO its gotta be mewtwo. how can sonic even approach this?

 

[_clinton]

Sonic like Samus has a bad history of fighting psychics

 

[PowerBomb]

Sonic can run behind Mewtwo and homing attack him or something. Or just go Super and repeatedly barrage Mewtwo with rams.

On the flipside, Mewtwo can use Protect/Sub/Recover/Aura Sphere + Max Elixer abuse (if we're using dungeon M2).

orite, pick one: Dungeon M2 or Version M2

 

[Samochan]

Hey guys, I found an interesting tibzit about Samus and how her suit works, according to translation of those Fusion images you can get on Prime 1 gallery.

http://www.metroid-database.com/mp/art/fusionsuit_concept1e.png

"Third layer: The special material of the third layer absorbs the effects of attacks from external enemies, contaminants, etc."

I imagine since Fusion suit is the stripped version of her normal Power suit, that's what you'd find from that Power suit of hers as well. The special material, as it's closest to skin & clothes, is most likely the organic components of her power suit that modifies whenever she gets a suit upgrade, as noted on Fusion when only the organic parts of her suit were said to be left. But as we well know, Fusion suit is frail version and her normal suit has not only armor, but force field as well. But I can imagine that those take the most of the hit & detect against foes and hazards and the third layer is like a cushion to samus herself, so she can do all kinds of stuff without hurting herself in the process (like falling down from very high, speed boosting around etc.)

The force-field, armor and third special layer allows her to not get hurt by any sort of energy or attack that comes from outside of her suit. That would include PSI-attacks, not even chozo ghosts get a free pass even if they're not from this world. She's also immune to status effects such as paralysis and poison and other type of hazards due to this. I imagine tho that if she were to stress it enough (namely use up her energy tanks), this third layer of hers would cease to function properly, leaving herself open to whatever stuff, alongside when it took her life-energy along with it (as noted when metroid try to suck out energy, they absorb her life-energy there). On MP2 game over screens, she gets a heart failure. On the other hand, she can really boost the efficency level of this organic materia via energy tanks and suit upgrades. Less stress on the third layer = more durability. I'm fairly sure we can hear her panting and stuff whenever your suit energy levels are low.

But I believe there is also a weakness in this third layer of hers and that's organic matter or energy. Namely phazon and X. Both are not only powerful, but very contaminating things, that also somehow got past her defences. So basically, if a type of phazon meant to take over the host hits her, her organic third layer absorbs the attack and contaminates itself, which is ****ty news for samus, as phazon has a tendency to overtake organic (and even inorganic, lol thardus) things. But I also believe this very thing saved samus herself from being fully phazonized by keeping it in check on the layer, along with her chozo inheritage that would undoubtedly resist such change.

That makes phazon even more dangerous tho. I can't imagine it would've been her human inheritage that stopped the phazon from spreading, but the above. Humans are weak in metroid universe, Fed troops got slaughtered by the Ing and then their bodies were possessed, while an alien race like Luminoth survived the Ing and their bodies were seemingly left to decay instead. Every bounty hunter is an alien too. Basically, phazon would maul most other contestants here easily, since they don't possess known phazon resistance nor are aliens.

 

[PKNintendo]

Shame Ness lost but speed boosters are incredibly broken sauce.

{Can Samus even lose? Save Ganon of course}

And can people stop making Ness=Lucas?

Lucas doesn't learn a good amount psi skills Ness learns. Lucas is more of a team player {stat boosters for the whole team} while Ness is a monster on his own. {Access to the broken PSI paralysis, better stats etc}


Anywho, I DID get HG and it's pretty fun.

 

[the king of murder]

You know when I first saw the MU I thought Sonic wins this for sure.

But if we are analyzing his moveset more carefully then I see a good chance Mewtwo winning this.

Embargo/Snatch prevents Sonic from using his Chaos Emeralds.

And it doesn't matter how fast Sonic is because Mewtwo has Trick Room.
Trick Room causes the slower Pokemon to attack first.
It's like they're switching speed.

Aura Sphere always hits no matter what. Combine this with Calm Mind and it's a dangerous attack.

He can use Substitute with Recover for stalling though he doesn't really need it.

Gravity prevents Sonic from flying. And if I recall correctly Mewtwo is allowed to use items right? We only have to choose a moveset now.

You can call me crazy but I see Mewtwo winning this. That's my opinion anyway. Feel free to disagree.

 

[_clinton]

Shame Ness lost but speed boosters are incredibly broken sauce.

God the speed booster is the 3rd most overrated thing here behind Ganondorf's and Ike's special defense, I swear Samus wouldn't have anywhere near as many wins if it wasn't for the very narrow reference the guys have on the thing.

Also, even if the thing is "invulnerability" (still like how only the SNES SM booklet says that and it isn't an any other canon source, such as OTHER sources talking about SM) anyone who can affect the land Samus is running on should be able to stop it when she is running. Last I checked the land she is running on isn't BS "invulnerable."

And all you have to do to end speed booster is to lift Samus off the ground somehow (or just in general slow her down some how, the speed is picky as hell)

-Various Mario characters should be able to stop it (Many various ground moving moves, such as Wario's EQ)
-The Mother characters should be able to stop it (control over land is a big part that is backed up with them you know)
-Various Pokemon characters should be able to stop it (the move "Earthquake" says enough really)
-Sonic should be able to stop it with chaos energy
-Ganondorf should be able to stop it (along with Link)
-I'm pretty sure that characters that also have a sci-fi setting besides Samus also have "walls" of various sorts (when has Samus ran through a tank like the landmaster or such?)
-I'm too lazy to bring up other examples of characters right now

Hell I think several other characters would count as a "wall" of some sort just in general (Bowser).

 

[Kewkky]

Samus could just jump and shoot while speed boosting.

 

[_clinton]

Samus could just jump and shoot while speed boosting.

And when she lands she loses the boost, you are aware that landing changes your momentum a lot, she loses the boost when she hits the ground and has to start again.

 

[PowerBomb]

Takes half a second to do it, she can keep invinci-jumping via Space Jump until she finds a safe time to land or something.

Or she could do the shoulder bumrush thing.

 

[_clinton]

Takes half a second to do it, she can keep invinci-jumping via Space Jump until she finds a safe time to land or something.

Or she could do the shoulder bumrush thing.

Actually it takes more than a 1/2 second to use the speed booster even after just losing it again.

And again on the landing thing, it doesn't matter when she lands because it is the landing that stops the booster.

 

[Kewkky]

-Various Mario characters should be able to stop it (Many various ground moving moves, such as Wario's EQ) Samus doesn't really need invincibility to beat Wario, AFAIK
-The Mother characters should be able to stop it (control over land is a big part that is backed up with them you know) When are they shown to alter the ground to stop the opponents dead in their tracks, or to prevent them from moving? If Samus is invincible, then they have to target other stuff around her that isn't her... Show me a couple of examples as to how this would hallep
-Various Pokemon characters should be able to stop it (the move "Earthquake" says enough really) Samus could either space jump while invincible, shinespark into the pokemon while they do their thing, or just kill them in a large manner of different ways
-Sonic should be able to stop it with chaos energy Yeaaa, I dunno how this match would work out. We'd have to see when the time comes
-Ganondorf should be able to stop it (along with Link) We'll see once the match happens, which should be soon
-I'm pretty sure that characters that also have a sci-fi setting besides Samus also have "walls" of various sorts (when has Samus ran through a tank like the landmaster or such?) Who knows? Maybe Samus crashes into it doing a large amount of damage, then stops, like what happens when she speed boosts to any bosses besides Crocomire. Even if it can't be done without hacks, the fact that they get amazingly hurt when it happens is still part of the game

Answers in red. Really, I mean... if they wanna alter the ground, they're gonna have to be able to do it during the gameplay. Letting them do something that the player can't replicate shouldn't be allowed, it just calls for more arguments where we end up allowing one-cutscene-only weaponry/attacks to be used. heck, we still haven't used the Hyper Beam or Omega Cannon because of this same reason, because they're endgame items that would be very unfair to use and we can't exploit them.

 

[_clinton]

heck, we still haven't used the Hyper Beam or Omega Cannon because of this same reason, because they're endgame items that would be very unfair to use and we can't exploit them.

So, you are ok with Samus using phazon again for what reason? Canon wise the stuff has been removed from the Metroid Universe.

God you guys have made a ton of exceptions for this thread already, what is one more?

Samus doesn't really need invincibility to beat Wario, AFAIK

Oh I’m sorry you think Samus can beat a guy who canon wise is unable to die according to Wario Land 2’s instruction manual. How is Samus going to beat something like that? Canon wise it hasn’t been taken back yet.

(control over land is a big part that is backed up with them you know) When are they shown to alter the ground to stop the opponents dead in their tracks, or to prevent them from moving? If Samus is invincible, then they have to target other stuff around her that isn't her... Show me a couple of examples as to how this would hallep

Oh I’m sorry you don’t think Lucas can do it, please show me Samus summoning a “meteor shower” that destroys the world already. Or creating her own world just in general already (Ness AND Lucas).

Oh and what do you think moves like “PK ground” are from Mother 3? The user starts a quake that can **** up foes easily and trap them in the land even if it doesn’t go well (and Lucas has been shown to move large objects in general really w/o referencing a PK move if you look at the “fire volcano” for Mother 3).

Samus could either space jump while invincible, shinespark into the pokemon while they do their thing, or just kill them in a large manner of different ways

So you think Samus’ is just going to be able to plow through something like a Steelix with shinespark? She can’t even move through a certain mini boss in Super Metroid.

Also I’m pretty sure the move “protect” will stop Samus from just plowing through whatever pokemon she feels like trying to move through.

And again when Samus lands she is no longer going to be “invulnerable” as well.

God people, Samus’ speed booster has been shown to be able to get stopped if something has a lot of bulk/force behind it. Am I the only one who gets the fact that something like a “power shield” from the Mother games which reduces the effects of physical blows and the like would stop it? I mean the stuff is reducing attacks in general meaning it is reducing their force, and if Samus loses her force behind the booster, the thing stops.

Yeaaa, I dunno how this match would work out. We'd have to see when the time comes

K then.

Who knows? Maybe Samus crashes into it doing a large amount of damage, then stops, like what happens when she speed boosts to any bosses besides Crocomire. Even if it can't be done without hacks, the fact that they get amazingly hurt when it happens is still part of the game

Unless you want more proof behind Samus’ speed booster being invulnerable is BS, you’d better not include hacks, and I’m also sure that “Crocomire” proves my point about how Samus’ speed booster can be stopped still. I like to think that a tank has more bulk behind it than that mini boss. I mean you don’t see Samus plowing through other metal doors easily as well.

 

[PowerBomb]

Actually it takes more than a 1/2 second to use the speed booster even after just losing it again.

And again on the landing thing, it doesn't matter when she lands because it is the landing that stops the booster.

Yes, I know about the whole landing thing.

And it does take half a second to start-up, Dryn timed it.

 

[Kewkky]

So, you are ok with Samus using phazon again for what reason? Canon wise the stuff has been removed from the Metroid Universe.

It appears in all Metroid Prime games, and you can use it freely during "Hyper Mode" in Metroid Prime 3. If you want to see how your agrument fails, if we can't carry stuff over games, then that means all Samus has for purposes of this thread is her power beam, since it's the only thing canon-wise that's always with her, from start to finish in all of her games.

Oh I’m sorry you think Samus can beat a guy who canon wise is unable to die according to Wario Land 2’s instruction manual. How is Samus going to beat something like that? Canon wise it hasn’t been taken back yet.

Entangler + Darkburst. Boom, done.

Oh I’m sorry you don’t think Lucas can do it, please show me Samus summoning a “meteor shower” that destroys the world already. Or creating her own world just in general already (Ness AND Lucas).

Show me how Lucas creates a world, or how he summons a "meteor shower" altering the ground around him.

Oh and what do you think moves like “PK ground” are from Mother 3? The user starts a quake that can **** up foes easily and trap them in the land even if it doesn’t go well (and Lucas has been shown to move large objects in general really w/o referencing a PK move if you look at the “fire volcano” for Mother 3).

And it stops. Why can't Samus just jump and outlast it in the air? I mean, we have Space Jump for infinite jumps and Screw Attack for ramming through foes, Samus could easily target Lucas if he dared try a PK Ground this way (if he has a shield up it still goes through).

And can you see Lucas move anything else with PSI besides that rock? In fact, can YOU as a player ever choose to move anything in the game besides that rock?

So you think Samus’ is just going to be able to plow through something like a Steelix with shinespark? She can’t even move through a certain mini boss in Super Metroid.

Why would she want to? She could just shoot him down with Nova beams from far away while Space Jumping. They are, after all, high-temperature shots... And how can Steelix reach a high-flying Samus that shoots a lot of Nova beams down below? If Steelix uses dig, then he HA to come up sometimes, since he only spends one turn underground, and that's when Samus hits him. Hell, she could hit him with a slow-but-powerful Sunburst considering his speed since obviously he'll be trained to use Gyro Ball with the lowest speed possible.

Also I’m pretty sure the move “protect” will stop Samus from just plowing through whatever pokemon she feels like trying to move through.

If the pokemon are given protect, then Samus will just not plow through them and done. Why should she do it if she's not gonna do anything to them? Why risk it? She can just camp 'em out.

And again when Samus lands she is no longer going to be “invulnerable” as well.

What's keeping her from going Hypermode in the air, then landing on the floor, not suffering from any hits at all, and starting to run again?

God people, Samus’ speed booster has been shown to be able to get stopped if something has a lot of bulk/force behind it. Am I the only one who gets the fact that something like a “power shield” from the Mother games which reduces the effects of physical blows and the like would stop it? I mean the stuff is reducing attacks in general meaning it is reducing their force, and if Samus loses her force behind the booster, the thing stops.

Stuff that stops Samus' speed booster are game mechs, since the instruction manula in Super Metroid says she's invincible. If it states she's invincible, and invincibility means "unable to be overcome (nothing can beat it)", then if things beat it, it's clearly because they were programmed to stop you from using the Speed Booster in that situation.

Unless you want more proof behind Samus’ speed booster being invulnerable is BS, you’d better not include hacks, and I’m also sure that “Crocomire” proves my point about how Samus’ speed booster can be stopped still. I like to think that a tank has more bulk behind it than that mini boss. I mean you don’t see Samus plowing through other metal doors easily as well.

Game mech to stop you from beating him in one hit. It's the only boss that has a long-enough stage for you to get some speed started, and when you slam into him with a speed booster/shinespark, he not only stays unhurt, but gets angrier and moves faster! And you know the goal of this boss: pin you against your side's wall before you pin IT to its side's wall.

 

[PKNintendo]

People people. All of you guys are noobs when it comes to Mewtwo.

THIS is how you use it.

Mewtwo
Timid Nature (+ Speed -Attack)
252 Special Attack EV's/252 Speed EV's/4 HP Ev's (max of 510)

Aura Sphere
Psychic
Taunt
Calm Mind

Mewtwo taunts Sonic so he can't use the Chaos Emeralds, spams Calm mind and OHKO's Sonic with 6+ psychic.

>_<

I play a lot of pokemon...