Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

[_clinton]

I don't know why people are treating the parasol as something she can abuse forever when we've made stalling against the rules.

It wasn't against the rules in regards to Ness vs. Peach...

 

[justaway12]

That's because she won't stay in her Parasol 24/7 vs. Ness, apperantly Samus has the abilty to do things at OMGROFL speeds.

 

[Kewkky]

That's because she won't stay in her Parasol 24/7 vs. Ness, apperantly Samus has the abilty to do things at OMGROFL speeds.

Yes she can, have you played Super Metroid Redesign? Super freakin' fun, man... You have to be fast on your fingers and know everything there is to know about Samus' physics if you want to get anywhere in that game. Hell, you even have to go through all of Norfair without the Varia Suit to get the Ice Beam, then back out, with just 3 energy tanks! Super awesome... I hope Metroid: Other M is that cool.

 

[justaway12]

Umm, I wasn't saying no... just in case you took the wrong way, and no, I haven't, the only Metroid game I've played was Metroid 1.

 

[_clinton]

That's because she won't stay in her Parasol 24/7 vs. Ness, apperantly Samus has the abilty to do things at OMGROFL speeds.

Ness is very fast as well...he can teleport for one thing...how about that?

And I'm also pretty sure that Ness is the only character in this thread that has fought at the pressure and intensity required to make carbon based substances become diamond...and then on top of that "cut" or at least "break" said diamond monster at those requirements when said stuff was made (Diamond is sort of brittle...although I don't know how many games seem to get that fact...as in I don't think EB got that as well...although I guess you could factor in hardness only for a monster made of diamond IMO)

As in he could handle fighting 140 to 190 kilometers (87 to 120 mi) in the Earth mantle at temps ranging from 1200–1500 °C (2192–2732 °F) at least (considering how fast you make said diamonds though in this fight...the temp has to be a lot higher than what I'm saying)

Of course...this is still before he gets his god-mode upgrade thingy...which is just funny...

 

[justaway12]

His teleport doesn't hurt the people it touches and I don't think it goes at 0.00001 seconds per hour.

 

[_clinton]

His teleport doesn't hurt the people it touches and I don't think it goes at 0.00001 seconds per hour.

Well...we don't know if it would actually hurt the foe or not...considering how EB's battle system is based off touching the foe...and actually the game considers it an instantaneous teleport based off the description the game gives you talking about the move...and it even works that way as well...considering how nothing can move while using it (fun fact...it's fun and easy to bypass fights you don't want to deal with or get back attacks on foes you don't want to face up front)

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Next MU.

Vs.

Current Match-Up:
THE POWER OF AURA Vs. THE POWER OF SWORDS

Lucario Vs. Marth

Vs.

Loser's Round 5, Match 3.

Overall Results

Wins +5:



Wins +4:

, , ,

Wins +3:



Wins +2:

, , , , , ,

Wins +1:

, :mewtwo:,

Neutral:

, , , , ,

Loss -1:

, , , , ichu:, ,

Loss -2:

, ,

Loss -3:

, , ,

Loss -4:

,

Loss -5:

,

 

[PowerBomb]

Justaway12, does Peach's umbrella protect from all sides or just the direction she places it in?

 

[Kewkky]

This could go both ways... Marth's gonna want to go Falchion cuz Lucario can have unavoidable/long-range/fast attacks that may reach him before he has a chance to properly camp with the Earth Orbs.

And Samus beats Mario.

 

[Crystanium]

A. That event of playing suitless Samus in the orininal Metroid isn’t canon…Samus beat Mother Brain in a power suit…not her Zero Suit…

This is a perfect example of someone who just likes to argue. This is like someone who sees a moving object and just has to hump it. I never said Suitless Samus was in the Zero Suit. If you paid attention instead of arguing for the sake of arguing, I think you would know that by now.

B. You can play as suitless Samus w/o the code…it’s suppose to be an award for beating the game in under 2 hours…so…suitless Samus…by that meaning right there…proves that it isn’t canon…because Samus has already beat the game just to get it…

No one said it was canon. No one. I said that the password was not a "cheat," because after completing Metroid, you'd start over with all the items you collected anyway. NARPAS SWORD 000000 000000 is a cheat because you have infinite health and Missiles.

C. The remake of the original Metroid is canon…it takes over the original…you have to use what that shows…and I still don’t know why you guys think instruction booklets are a good source of info…they tell you how to play the game…they aren’t the best place to find canon facts (unless you want to think Samus is still a male cyborg or something like that according to the 1st book)

This logic doesn't work. Not that anyone was talking about it in the first place. Metroid, Metroid 2: Return of Samus, and Super Metroid all told the story of Metroid. The fact that you should even bring up Samus Aran being a male cyborg, despite knowing that in the same game from which the box art, instruction booklet, and cartridge all came in, Samus is a woman. Complete Metroid under a specific time and you will know this.

D. God…you don’t see me thinking things like rolling HP in the EB series is canon…even though more than just a few NPCs talk about it like it was a real thing…

Oh, so no HP? Then these battles should be a whole lot easier, especially for Samus.

---------------

PowerBomb, how did you come up with the certain amount of damage reduction for the "X Suit" (which isn't even a suit, by the way)? Samus has 2099 Energy. One swipe from the Omega Metroid reduces her to 1 Energy. Upon acquiring the "X Suit," she loses only 100 Energy.

100 / 2098 = 0.0476644423

0.0476644423 = 0.05

0.05 = 5%

This is consistent with 1/20.

Also, I was testing yesterday and the Varia Suit reduces damage 40%, while the Gravity Suit reduces it 70%.

Memus (creatures you first see in Sector 6 - NOC) do the following damage.

• Fusion Suit: 60
• Varia Suit: 36
• Gravity Suit: 18

Varia Suit reduces 40%. 60 was the original damage.

60 * .40 = 24.

After that,

60 - 24 = 36.

So, this is correct as far as the method goes because the damage was 36 damage if you were hit by a Memu with the Varia Suit on.

The next damage from the Memu was 18 instead of 60 with the Gravity Suit on. The Gravity Suit reduces damage 70%.

60 * .70 = 42.

Take 42 and subtract.

60 - 42 = 18.

Again, I'm not sure how you worked with the damage reduction. I've seen it before, but I'd like to see it again. I cannot find it in the previous pages. Anyway, I have read by some that they said the damage reduction was 95%. This is probably due to the other way of figuring out the damage reduction. For example, consider the following. Let's say an enemy does 400 damage.

400 * .05 = 20.

The damage total would be 20 instead of 400. Let's change .05 to .95.

400 * .95 = 380.

Now, if we do the following, we will get 20.

400 - 380 = 20.

It seems to flip around after a certain number. I'm thinking .50.

 

[PowerBomb]

The final suit from Metroid Fusion? Is that the one you're talking about? Or the Suits with all of their defensive capabilities stacked (not the same ones, of course)?

 

[Crystanium]

The final suit from Metroid Fusion? Is that the one you're talking about? Or the Suits with all of their defensive capabilities stacked (not the same ones, of course)?

Stacked, I suppose was the one.

------------------

For _clinton...

Because the properties that the wave beam has are the same properties that Peach has been shown to block...with a common enemy using them in said game...

And I already pointed out to you that if bomb blasts and other things that pass through the player...don't do Peach damage while she has it up...what makes you think Samus' would?

To both of these, you want to be picky about who is invincible and who isn't? You want to say that Samus can be harmed by bosses when she uses the Speed Booster, or that she'll just stop running if she hits a wall. (Maybe that's just a part of the game, since the creators wouldn't want you ploughing through walls.) No limits fallacy, then.

"For a gross example, observing that a shield can easily withstand an attack from a particular weapon, one might illogically conclude that the shield could withstand fire from an unlimited number of those weapons at the same time, or that it could withstand fire from a similar weapon that was much more powerful." (ImperialWiki)

Forget about the weapons Peach shielded against. Forget about whether or not (and it's just your opinion) that a certain enemy used an attack with the "same properties." Forget the "bomb blasts." Who is to say that the Power Bomb isn't stronger? If Samus isn't allowed to be invincible, and I don't care about your unconvincing arguments, then no one is. The Parasol Shield is just a game mechanic.

 

[BSP]

Ok, if sending out of the map is ok, can't Sonic just warp Ike to space? I'm sure lack of air would be a problem for him.

I don't really care about infinite SS for offense, since 3 hours is plenty. It's important for defense though. Ike for example. Sonic can't hurt him, but Ike can't hurt SS either (unless he can re create the stress of atmospheric re entry and a giant iron container falling on top of you). And then, even if he if he did, Sonic could just re activate SS. Sonic sitting in SS isn't stalling unless the opponent could hurt him.

Uh, no one said anything...

Also, remember that Sonic does have infinite lightning shields to go along with his SS powers. Sonic shouldn't have lost to Ike. Not a win, but not a loss either. Well, if warping characters is legal, then he would win unless Ike can breathe in space.

And at the current battle....Does anyone have any idea to what the FE people can do? I'm clueless.

 

[justaway12]

Justaway12, does Peach's umbrella protect from all sides or just the direction she places it in?

All sides. Why is it important though? She can't do anything but stay under there

 

[_clinton]

Justaway12, does Peach's umbrella protect from all sides or just the direction she places it in?

PowerBomb…it protects on every side and even somehow below her (which doesn’t make sense)
Super Paper Mario is where the move is from…you get Peach in chapter 2…check it out if you can…and see why the concept of invincibility in games is just a figure of speech…

All sides. Why is it important though? She can't do anything but stay under there

Well...it takes her less than a second to pop out of it and open a menu for an item...

I never said Suitless Samus was in the Zero Suit.

You said this:

You know, all this time I thought that it was silly that Zero Suit Samus should be that low on the tier list if we were to use Samus from the NES.

What am I suppose to imply from that? It seemed to me that you were trying to do something that wasn’t actually in the game…and you aren’t the 1st person in this thread to do this…
For example…Diddy Kong’s mode in DK: King of Swing isn’t really canon either…but people are sure as hell making it sound like it is…

This logic doesn't work. Not that anyone was talking about it in the first place. Metroid, Metroid 2: Return of Samus, and Super Metroid all told the story of Metroid. The fact that you should even bring up Samus Aran being a male cyborg, despite knowing that in the same game from which the box art, instruction booklet, and cartridge all came in, Samus is a woman. Complete Metroid under a specific time and you will know this.

The logic doesn’t work…because I was trying to show that it was doing the same things you guys are doing with regards to hyper mode and the speed booster (and whatever else I’m forgetting)

As in…there is clear controversial evidence saying that the Speed booster and hyper mode isn’t really true invincibility…even in the same game it shows up in…

Like for example 3 other canon sources never saying the words invincibility in regards to the speed booster…and the one game that started it...is proven wrong…in game…and by it not being repeated…

You are arguing that the speed booster is invincibility based off what it says in the Super Metroid instruction booklet…even though in the re-release of it…they pretty much keep the same wordings behind the definitions…but didn’t put in invincibility…even though they clearly had enough room…
I keep on trying to point out that the definition for the speed booster has been changed a lot just like the other moves (as in worded better)…you guys don’t seem to get that though…so why don’t you while you are at it…still consider Samus a male cyborg despite 8 or so games saying otherwise AND there being in game proof that she isn’t a male cyborg?
It’s in an instruction booklet you know >_>
And instruction booklets are never wrong from what you guys seem to be saying…even if the high jump boots and the spring ball have become one power up sense Super Metroid…

(She doesn’t even have the “touch of death” against all of the normal enemies)

Oh, so no HP? Then these battles should be a whole lot easier, especially for Samus.

>_>
You are aware that if they have rolling HP because of the game mechs…they can’t be beat right?
I’m not saying that they don’t have HP just because I’m aware that rolling HP is a game mech…god…I already pointed out in another post that Ness and his team could apply enough pressure and force to turn a large carbon based object into diamond right in front of them…and then flat out destroy that diamond under these conditions…and this is before Ness hits god mode…

Which is funny because…just to do that by itself would require you to handle more extreme temps and pressure than what the gravity suit has shown to protect from…in fact by the end of the game and based off Mother 3’s background…Ness is showing “hints” at being able to control and move freely through time with his powers…and on top of that…free movement through space…

Of course…EB is a parody of many things…one of which being game stereotypes…but whatever…that makes it better because of that IMO ^_^

PowerBomb, how did you come up with the certain amount of damage reduction for the "X Suit" (which isn't even a suit, by the way)? Samus has 2099 Energy. One swipe from the Omega Metroid reduces her to 1 Energy. Upon acquiring the "X Suit," she loses only 100 Energy.

I sure as hell like how you forgot about how not even 5:00 minutes ago…Samus was done with fighting a perfect copy of herself…oh…and I also like how you think the game would make you wait for Samus’ energy to drain while fighting that thing under a timer as well…
I like how the SA-X is done in by one claw as well is what I’m saying…despite that being the thing that Samus copied into her system…

To both of these, you want to be picky about who is invincible and who isn't?

Ah no…for both of those, I’m trying to point out why their concepts are not really true…I personally don’t think Peach hiding under an umbrella would protect her from a universal destruction attack…

The game mechs. are the only reason they are like that…the makers of the games are the reason they work that way…but there is so much canon evidence that shows otherwise…

You want to say that Samus can be harmed by bosses when she uses the Speed Booster, or that she'll just stop running if she hits a wall.

Ah…it’s more than just boss fights…she can’t get by certain normal enemies as well in case you don’t get it…and some of them are a lot smaller than she is…
Let’s start a list of foes Samus can’t beat with the speed booster again, here is the 1st one:
http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Fune
WTF with that one…
Oh…and Super Metroid’s Metroids as well…although this one is kind of hard to see (there is one spot where you have just enough room to power up the speed booster though…although it requires an acid lava bath)

Forget about the weapons Peach shielded against. Forget about whether or not (and it's just your opinion) that a certain enemy used an attack with the "same properties." Forget the "bomb blasts." Who is to say that the Power Bomb isn't stronger?

So…are you saying that a power bomb is stronger than an invincible universe destroying enemy as well for this?

Also…you are doing one of the same things that I tried to point out in regards to stuff like Ike’s protection…what makes people think that a stronger god power…wouldn’t be able to harm a weaker amount of god power being used by someone else? But apparently people won’t budge from what their game’s canon says…even if there are contractions to it…

The Parasol Shield is just a game mechanic.

Well yeah…but not to certain people who were talking about Peach in the match of Ness vs. Peach >_>

But on another note…why do I get the feeling that you don’t get my main argument that I’ve been talking about for a while now?

Which is…that invincibility in games is just a game mech. by the people who made them in order to help out the player with playing the game:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SuperStar
I’ve posted this like 15 times now…you’d think people would get that the idea of invincibility in games is just a “figure of speech”

Invincibility is done so often in games/whatever it should have its own section…oh wait…
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NighInvulnerability

 

[justaway12]

And it would takes less than a second for Samus to barrage her with her missles and whatnot >_>

 

[Lovely]

Marth defeated dragons, we pretty much know who would win in a fight. ^_^

 

[warpd]

Samus has a grapple beam that can take shields away. Peach won't be holding her parasol for long against Samus.

 

[DoonKoon]

marth could just cut lucario in halve..

 

[PowerBomb]

And it would takes less than a second for Samus to barrage her with her missles and whatnot >_>

Yep. Play the games, the Charge Beam in Metroid Fusion is insanely fast, whilst the Missiles are basically "tap this button to rapid fire".

@Dryn: I just multiplied the damage received fractions. I.E.: Gravity Suit and its 75% reduction in damage = Samus taking 1/4 of damage. 1/4 x whatever other Suit modifier.

 

[Crystanium]

What am I suppose to imply from that? It seemed to me that you were trying to do something that wasn’t actually in the game…and you aren’t the 1st person in this thread to do this…

Well, for one, you shouldn't start to assume. I was just saying that it would be silly that Samus should be that low on the tier list if Suitless Samus was being combined with the Zero Suit incarnation. I've been around so far whenever ZSS is fighting against another opponent, and I've always been of the opinion that ZSS probably will not win because we don't know what she is capable of. If we permitted the manga, then my thoughts would change.

The logic doesn’t work…because I was trying to show that it was doing the same things you guys are doing with regards to hyper mode and the speed booster (and whatever else I’m forgetting)

I think I see what you were trying to do, but it still doesn't work because the SM booklet says that Samus is invincible when she uses the Speed Booster. The M booklet says "he" instead of "she." However, from what we learn at the end of the game, Samus is a female, not a male. Thus, the "he" was used in order to make the player think he was playing as a male cyborg. On the other hand, the SM booklet says Samus is invincible, but there's nothing to contradict that statement. And, pay attention here, the lack of the word "invincible" in any recent booklet does not contradict the SM booklet, since it is not saying she's not invincible.

You have simply been taking in-game and saying, "Look, Samus is not invincible. She clearly can be stopped." If you want to take in-game a step further, then Samus is not moving at supersonic speeds. She's not even moving at transonic speeds. How do we know she's moving at supersonic speeds? The booklets say so. An example you used was the Maw, who you said could grab Samus and stop her. Well, guess what else Maws can do? They can grab Samus and pull her to the other side of the wall, even though there is a wall in front of her. We know that in reality, this could not happen. We know that in reality, if a Maw was to grab something moving at supersonic speeds, it would be uprooted.

As in…there is clear controversial evidence saying that the Speed booster and hyper mode isn’t really true invincibility…even in the same game it shows up in…

Hyper Mode is "invincible" because when Samus is in the more corrupted state, for those 25 seconds, any damage she receives, her Phazon increases, allowing her to use more and more Phazon. Until those 25 seconds are up, she's not taking any damage. If you want, you could say she's invulnerable during that time.

Like for example 3 other canon sources never saying the words invincibility in regards to the speed booster…and the one game that started it...is proven wrong…in game…and by it not being repeated…

Lack of words is not equivalent to a contradiction.

"Soda contains a lot of sugar, which is bad for your teeth."

"Soda contains a lot of sugar."

The first does not contradict the second. This is the same thing you get when you compare SM booklet with MZM and MF booklet.

You are arguing that the speed booster is invincibility based off what it says in the Super Metroid instruction booklet…even though in the re-release of it…they pretty much keep the same wordings behind the definitions…but didn’t put in invincibility…even though they clearly had enough room…

I feel like I have to explain myself more than once, but I'm not going to.

I keep on trying to point out that the definition for the speed booster has been changed a lot just like the other moves (as in worded better)…you guys don’t seem to get that though…so why don’t you while you are at it…still consider Samus a male cyborg despite 8 or so games saying otherwise AND there being in game proof that she isn’t a male cyborg?

M booklet says Samus is a "he." The end of the game reveals Samus is not a "he," but a "she."

A male cannot be a female.

"He is a female" is a contradiction.

"Speed Booster makes Samus move very fast, and she is invincible during this time."

"Speed Booster makes Samus move very fast."

Not a contradiction because it's not saying,

"Speed Booster makes Samus move very fast, but she's not invincible during this time."

It’s in an instruction booklet you know >_>
And instruction booklets are never wrong from what you guys seem to be saying…even if the high jump boots and the spring ball have become one power up sense Super Metroid…

I know it's in an instruction booklet. I don't see a problem with the Hi-Jump Boots being combined with the Spring Ball. It's said in both MF and MZM booklets. It's been kind of a common thing in the Metroid series now. For example, if I am not mistaken, if you check your Log Book about the Power Beam in Metroid Prime 2: Echoes, it says that the Power Beam is combined with the Charge Beam. It's not unusual in the Metroid series for two items to be combined as one, since the functions are similar or related to the other.

(She doesn’t even have the “touch of death” against all of the normal enemies)

>_>
You are aware that if they have rolling HP because of the game mechs…they can’t be beat right?

HP is simply Hit Points, which is health, which was first made up in the original Dungeons & Dragons. You know that these days some games are made to where "HP" doesn't quite exactly exist. It's non-existent in the Sonic games, except for maybe one of the recent ones. Mario originally did not have HP. One hit from an enemy meant you lost a life, unless you had a Mushroom prior to being hit. Without HP, characters are more human. So the lack of HP doesn't make someone invincible.

I’m not saying that they don’t have HP just because I’m aware that rolling HP is a game mech…god…I already pointed out in another post that Ness and his team could apply enough pressure and force to turn a large carbon based object into diamond right in front of them…and then flat out destroy that diamond under these conditions…and this is before Ness hits god mode…

I don't care.

Which is funny because…just to do that by itself would require you to handle more extreme temps and pressure than what the gravity suit has shown to protect from…in fact by the end of the game and based off Mother 3’s background…Ness is showing “hints” at being able to control and move freely through time with his powers…and on top of that…free movement through space…

I don't care.

I sure as hell like how you forgot about how not even 5:00 minutes ago…Samus was done with fighting a perfect copy of herself…oh…and I also like how you think the game would make you wait for Samus’ energy to drain while fighting that thing under a timer as well…
I like how the SA-X is done in by one claw as well is what I’m saying…despite that being the thing that Samus copied into her system…

You're assuming that your opinion is fact. Listen, Samus doesn't show any signs of fatigue if she has enough Energy Tanks. Perhaps you never played Metroid 2: Return of Samus. Zeta Metroids are a pain in the *** to take down, but Omega Metroids are the ones you have to look out for. Maybe you weren't aware, but in M2, if you used your Ice Beam on an Omega Metroid, it didn't do squat. Only Missiles would work. Funny how the Ice Beam is "super effective" in MF, but the Missiles do nothing. Plot mechanic, most likely. Even so, if you are correct, what differences does it make? Samus is still much more durable after.

Ah no…for both of those, I’m trying to point out why their concepts are not really true…I personally don’t think Peach hiding under an umbrella would protect her from a universal destruction attack…

But her Parasol protects her from received damage, correct?

The game mechs. are the only reason they are like that…the makers of the games are the reason they work that way…but there is so much canon evidence that shows otherwise…

I'm getting tired of the term "game mech." I fail to see how every game mechanic should not be allowed.

Ah…it’s more than just boss fights…she can’t get by certain normal enemies as well in case you don’t get it…and some of them are a lot smaller than she is…
Let’s start a list of foes Samus can’t beat with the speed booster again, here is the 1st one:
http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Fune
WTF with that one…

Oy vey! If you want to start removing some things from video games, fine. An actual event would obliterate the Fune on contact.

Oh…and Super Metroid’s Metroids as well…although this one is kind of hard to see (there is one spot where you have just enough room to power up the speed booster though…although it requires an acid lava bath)

Metroids don't take damage to anything in-game. It's how they were programmed in-game. To kill them, you have to freeze them with the Ice Beam and then use five Missiles. This is how it was in Metroid. Heck, the Screw Attack doesn't even kill them.

So…are you saying that a power bomb is stronger than an invincible universe destroying enemy as well for this?

I don't know anything about the Mario series. All I saw was that you were saying Peach encountered something like this and like that. I brought up the no limits fallacy, which really did blow away the idea of her being resistant to a Power Bomb, simply because she put up with some "bomb blasts" from her game.

Also…you are doing one of the same things that I tried to point out in regards to stuff like Ike’s protection…what makes people think that a stronger god power…wouldn’t be able to harm a weaker amount of god power being used by someone else? But apparently people won’t budge from what their game’s canon says…even if there are contractions to it…

Well, if Ike cannot be harmed, then he cannot be harmed. Find another way to defeat him, like covering him in a layer of cement or something so that he becomes immobile like Ganondorf in WW. Or, just send him to another dimension.

Well yeah…but not to certain people who were talking about Peach in the match of Ness vs. Peach >_>

You're taking me literally there. I don't care if Peach is invincible with the Parasol Shield. I'm not nitpicking at it.

But on another note…why do I get the feeling that you don’t get my main argument that I’ve been talking about for a while now?

I don't know.

Which is…that invincibility in games is just a game mech. by the people who made them in order to help out the player with playing the game:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SuperStar
I’ve posted this like 15 times now…you’d think people would get that the idea of invincibility in games is just a “figure of speech”

"Game mech." Get a definition of that for me.

These were made to help the player with playing the game? Well, so does the Fire Flower. Should we remove that? It's a trope, after all. I mean, it's nice you're showing me tropes, but what's the purpose?

Invincibility is done so often in games/whatever it should have its own section…oh wait…
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NighInvulnerability

If these tropes didn't exist, you do realize that we'd be talking about the real world, don't you? I hope you aren't thinking that because something is a trope, that it means it's false. It seems that's what you're trying to get at here.

 

[ShadowLink84]

I’m not saying that they don’t have HP just because I’m aware that rolling HP is a game mech…god…I already pointed out in another post that Ness and his team could apply enough pressure and force to turn a large carbon based object into diamond right in front of them…and then flat out destroy that diamond under these conditions…and this is before Ness hits god mode…

Which is funny because…just to do that by itself would require you to handle more extreme temps and pressure than what the gravity suit has shown to protect from…in fact by the end of the game and based off Mother 3’s background…Ness is showing “hints” at being able to control and move freely through time with his powers…and on top of that…free movement through space…

I feel like being an **** so I'll just say this right now.

That wouldn't make a diamond.
All you would have is molten rock.
Diamonds take HUNDREDS of years to form because they have to cool very, very slowly.

Also, we DONT CARE!

 

[Diddy Kong]

Dunno who should win this match up. Marth actually has pretty crappy stats comparing to the rest of his army's potential, and in Hard Mode even with maxed Speed he get's doubled by Medeus the end boss.

Marth needs to get in range of Lucario in order to attack him. Lucario can outrange Marth by using Aura Sphere while in the meanwhile trying to buff his stats up. Agility would make Lucario "double attack" Marth for example.

Still, Marth can heal using Falchion, Lucario doesn't really have anything he can use to heal. I'm still thinking Lucario should win this, but he'll likely lose to Roy and Ike.

 

[PowerBomb]

Since PMD is canon (lolwut), Lucario now has infinite damage and OHKOs Marth.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Then Mewtwo vs Ness needs a change?

 

[_clinton]

And it would takes less than a second for Samus to barrage her with her missles and whatnot >_>

Why would Peach let the guard up when it isn't safe?

Also...what makes you think that Samus can fire 50 missiles in less than a second? The MP games clearly show limits on how fast Samus can fling things...as in…what Samus can do varies with the games…

Also...I personally don't know why Peach wouldn't just seal Samus in the Cobalt star or something...

Samus has a grapple beam that can take shields away. Peach won't be holding her parasol for long against Samus.

A. In order for Samus to steal from any strong foe in that game (like for example Rundus)...she has to hit them with something that would put their guard down...how are you going to get Peach's guard down when she is in a perfect guard?
B. I tried pointing out that Ness/Lucas could just steal said certain items as well from certain matches that they lost to/tied...apparently that won't happen for whatever reason...
C. Pick your poison...it's not like that parasol is the only invincibility thing Peach has to use...there are power stars, red essences, and star spirit energy as well that Peach has used...all of which can be recharged while said characters are using them...in fact...let me just show you invincibility in games is stupid...

The following characters have some form of unlimited invincibility in their games...
Mario, Luigi, Bowser, Peach-power stars can be recharged an unlimited amount of time for starters...even while using one...but I shouldn't have to explain some of the other ones as well I hope...
DK-Strong Kong will run on an unlimited supply of energy at the end of the game as long as you rescue all of the banana fairies...plus...you can carry unlimited bananas pretty much in DK: King of Swing...and just 20 of them make you in Going Bananas
Diddy-King of Swing again...even though he isn't in that game canon wise (he is in the hard mode though)
Yoshi-In the same boat as the 1st 4 really...in fact depending on the game...he can never die unless you run out of time
Wario-Wario himself has pretty much pointed out more than one time that he is an invincible mountain of muscle...and the games do a pretty good job at showing nothing will kill the guy...he can recover from anything...even being burned into nothing but ashes somehow...
Young Link-OoT invincibility spell + MM unlimited magic milk...according to the rules…it’s ok…
Samus-You guys seem to think she will never stop running...even though she needs an airplane runway to start going in the 1st place...and any change in the runway makes her lose it when she has started...and you seem to think Hypermode is that as well...even though the enemies that use it can die just fine...
Kirby-Stone/Rock still with you guys somehow…
Sonic-Super Sonic…

12 characters w/o even trying…again…it is unlimited invincibility…of course…also…what do most of these things have in common?
For one…they are in platformer games…or at least games with a “touch” damage mech. of some kind…You know…a game where running into a foe would hurt you…gee…I wonder why a concept of invincibility might be useful in game play like that?

Well, for one, you shouldn't start to assume.

Fine…sorry…

I've been around so far whenever ZSS is fighting against another opponent, and I've always been of the opinion that ZSS probably will not win because we don't know what she is capable of.

Samus reached the peck of human limits and beyond w/o her suit by the age of 14…
She is pretty much what Snake is to a point IMO without her suit…only she has a stun gun as well…
She can leap as high as the high jump boots, squeeze herself into crawl spaces the size of a morph ball slot, she has enough upper body strength to lift herself up ledges w/o her suit effortlessly, she is faster than her suit unless said suit has the speed booster of course, and she can wall jump somehow…any normal human would not want to **** with her…

If we permitted the manga, then my thoughts would change.

If we permitted the manga, a lot of things would change in regards to info besides just Samus…and I don’t know why we can’t permit official tie in material like that stuff that is in the Metroid manga in the 1st place…it’s still canon to the games…because they tie into them…god…were do people think stuff like the X came from?

On the other hand, the SM booklet says Samus is invincible, but there's nothing to contradict that statement. And, pay attention here, the lack of the word "invincible" in any recent booklet does not contradict the SM booklet, since it is not saying she's not invincible.

A. There are far more source material stating that Samus is running at supersonic speed than just the 2 instruction booklets…even the other official info for Super Metroid from Nintendo Power pretty much said Samus’ speed booster moves at supersonic speed before Metroid Fusion did:
http://www.metroid-database.com/sm/NP60pg008-009.jpg

See…there is other info backing up Samus’ speed booster being supersonic speed besides an instruction booklet…even for the 1st game that came out using the speed booster gives hints that it is supersonic speed…but you don’t see invincibility being backed up for any other official product in case you don’t get that

B. Here is what the Super Metroid instruction booklet says about the speed booster:

These boots allow Samus to run at a super high speed and make her invincible as she runs through enemies.”

Here is what the Metroid: Zero Mission instruction booklet says about the speed booster:

With this power-up, Samus is able to dash at supersonic speeds and crash through certain barriers and enemies.

Notice how the Super Metroid book and the Zero Mission booklet are almost the same in definition; I wonder what that could mean?
Other than the fact that they replaced “crash through certain barriers and enemies” with “make her invincible as she runs through enemies”
It’s more than just not putting invincible in with this case…they rewrote it…you can’t tell me that definition doesn’t work for Super Metroid if they were to use it for Super Metroid…because Samus can “crash through certain barriers and enemies” with the Speed booster…

It should be a pretty clear fact that Japanese symbols have multiple meanings behind them usually…including for the word invincible…this fact should make it is pretty clear that easy to make a mistake in the translation of it…this should explain what I’m saying better:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlindIdiotTranslation

And in case you can’t tell…they did make some pretty bad translation errors with Super Metroid’s SNES booklet (Space Jump for one)

Also on a different note just to change the subject…did you know that before Zero Mission became a remake of the 1st Metroid…certain people working under Sakamoto wanted to do a Super Metroid one?
But of course Sakamoto chose the 1st one instead…
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=102290

Hyper Mode is "invincible" because when Samus is in the more corrupted state, for those 25 seconds, any damage she receives, her Phazon increases, allowing her to use more and more Phazon. Until those 25 seconds are up, she's not taking any damage. If you want, you could say she's invulnerable during that time.

Again…all of the foes in that game that she fights has that going on as well…after all…what happens if you become “fully corrupted?”

Why…you get a game over…because the same thing that happened to Samus’ certain 3 allies, and the space pirates…ends up happening to her…

Lack of words is not equivalent to a contradiction.

Too bad Metroid: Zero Mission doesn’t have a lack of words…and Metroid Fusion doesn’t have that issue as well:

Dash at supersonic speeds and crash through certain barriers and enemies.
Press and hold the + Control Pad in the direction you want to dash.

Crash through certain foes and barriers means something completely different than become invincible as you run through foes…for one thing…they both imply that you’ll maybe cause harm to whatever is in your way…but one of them clearly points out that Samus can be stopped better than what the other one says…

I don't care.

Yes…I’m aware that you don’t care about EB’s canon…even though there are plenty of examples of Ness breaking through things that would be considered “invincible”

Even so, if you are correct, what differences does it make? Samus is still much more durable after.

Which doesn’t make sense…because the suit that she absorbed was beat in one hit just like she was…was once her “original” suit…or at least a copy of it (oh…we can’t forget that there were like 10 of the SA-Xs on that station am I right?)

And also…you are aware that you can’t stack beams in M2 right? Maybe the fact that the you can’t harm an omega metroid in M2 is because you don’t have any armor piercing laser with that freeze effect?
Never mind the fact that the remake of the 1st Metroid contradicts the story a lot…such as showing that Samus could always stack the beams…but who knows…perhaps the fact that the game was at one point maybe going to be Super Metroid shows with that?
Or maybe the people who made the series don’t give a **** about the canon
Or maybe it’s the fact that that metroid was “home grown” as well…

But her Parasol protects her from received damage, correct?

Yes…even on her feet somehow…

I'm getting tired of the term "game mech." I fail to see how every game mechanic should not be allowed.

"Game mech." Get a definition of that for me.

Here you go…Read up…I think these things should explain the difference between a game mech. and something that is really canon…
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GameplayAndStorySegregation
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CutscenePowerToTheMax
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CutsceneIncompetence

Oy vey! If you want to start removing some things from video games, fine. An actual event would obliterate the Fune on contact.

Yep…and an actual parasol guard wouldn’t protect Peach’s feet as well…but somehow it does…

Metroids don't take damage to anything in-game. It's how they were programmed in-game. To kill them, you have to freeze them with the Ice Beam and then use five Missiles. This is how it was in Metroid. Heck, the Screw Attack doesn't even kill them.

Yeah…and there Is a story reason for why they can’t be harmed by almost anything in case you don’t get it…thus showing that the game play and game mechs for that thing at least match for the most part…

Well, if Ike cannot be harmed, then he cannot be harmed. Find another way to defeat him, like covering him in a layer of cement or something so that he becomes immobile like Ganondorf in WW. Or, just send him to another dimension.

So…how will that work on someone who is so called invincible? Unless you want to use that on Samus as well…And Ganondorf lost the ToP in WW…that’s pretty much the reason why the sword ****ed him up more than usual…

Well, so does the Fire Flower. Should we remove that? It's a trope, after all. I mean, it's nice you're showing me tropes, but what's the purpose?

Tropes can be justified tropes for one thing…
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/JustifiedTrope

Like for example…sometimes the bag of spilling in the Metroid games…did fall into the category of a justified trope…
Metroid: Zero Mission’s for example feels that way…the point of it was to add to the story of the game and to Samus character for one thing…

But…invincibility is hardly ever justified at all…I mean…do I have to explain how the power star is hardly invincibility again when an enemy that gets their hands on it doesn’t get the same thing as the hero in SPM? Or how about those foes Kirby can munch on? Or how about how Super Sonic isn’t always invincible for each game as well?

 

[justaway12]

Well, I have no idea what a cobalt star is, so that's not my place to comment.

And Samus could just woosh around her with her speed booster thingy.

EDIT: ASDFGIDEIKIFER; SPOILERS :O

Spoiler

as if I hadn't had my fair share around here >_>

Isn't it E.gadds?

 

[warpd]

clinton you are assuming that Peach is a "boss" for Samus. Just because you don't like the idea of invincibility does not mean you can ignore it. Doesn't screw Attack have invincibility? Then all Samus has to do is jump. Also Ness needs a runway to activate teleport (or an area he can run around in circles like a sitting duck).

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Vs.

Current Match-Up:
KIRBY Vs. FALCON

Kirby Vs. Falcon

Vs.

Loser's Round 5, Match 4.

 

[warpd]

Warp Star vs Blue Falcon in the most epic and manliest race the Universes have ever seen. The race will never end!

 

[PowerBomb]

_clinton, Samus doesn't need THAT much flooring in the way of running. It takes her about a second to start the booster up.

 

[Lord Viper]

Warp Star vs Blue Falcon in the most epic and manliest race the Universes have ever seen. The race will never end!

☆ But Kirby has seven other Air Ride machine that can beat the Blue Falcon besides the Warp Star.... why is Kirby so low? )= ☆

 

[BSP]

Never mind.

And, invincible is clearly the wrong word for Super/Hyper Sonic, we should leave it at Invulnerable.

 

[PowerBomb]

☆ But Kirby has seven other Air Ride machine that can beat the Blue Falcon besides the Warp Star.... why is Kirby so low? )= ☆

Kirby Airride: Slow air ride machines...very slow.

 

[Lord Viper]

Kirby Airride: Slow air ride machines...very slow.

☆ Someone needs to play City Trials and have max stats when riding the fastest Air Ride Machine and say it's slow. =P ☆

☆ I know it's not easy, but there is a lot of strategies for getting max stats, (make sure there's a lot of city events that can help you, steal stats from other players, find an Air Ride Machine that can help you find all the boxes to gain more power, etc). City Trial is to prepare the Air Ride Machine for the challenge anyways. ☆

 

[PowerBomb]

☆ Someone needs to play City Trials and have max stats when riding the fastest Air Ride Machine and say it's slow. =P ☆

☆ I know it's not easy, but there is a lot of strategies for getting max stats, (make sure there's a lot of city events that can help you, steal stats from other players, find an Air Ride Machine that can help you find all the boxes to gain more power, etc). City Trial is to prepare the Air Ride Machine for the challenge anyways. ☆

The machine upgrades aren't retained...they're always used for one game only and then reset. And really, going 100-150 MPH (I know from experience) isn't enough to match the Blue Falcon, which goes like...1600 mph or something?

 

[UltraPuff]

Okay, so we all know Captain Falcon would beat Kirby in a race. What about in an actual battle?

 

[BSP]

If Falcon can start the battle in his BF, kirby is pretty limited. I guess he could stone over and over when the BF came. Kirby could also fly on his warpstar and fire projectiles at Falcon, but he could use his falcon flyer (anyone know what it does?) Falcon seems to have kirby beat on the ground, but the air could be different.

 

[Lovely]

Okay, so we all know Captain Falcon would beat Kirby in a race. What about in an actual battle?

If it was based only from Kirby Air Ride where the Warp Star is mega nerfed in terms of speed and power. ;p

Warp Star is fast enough to travel through other planets in seconds.

If Falcon can start the battle in his BF, kirby is pretty limited. I guess he could stone over and over when the BF came. Kirby could also fly on his warpstar and fire projectiles at Falcon, but he could use his falcon flyer (anyone know what it does?) Falcon seems to have kirby beat on the ground, but the air could be different.

"In Before Star Ship Kirby from Kirby Super Star is Better". ;p

Kirby pretty much wins this match with the right abilities chosen.