Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

[_clinton]

God people...danger Mario is just setting the game mechs for PM:TTYD to his advantage...it's not some official power of Mario...it's if anything just Rolling HP from EB...sort of like how Samus is so called invincible when in hyper-mode...it's hardly "invincibility" at all...god if anything...stuff like Only Link can beat Ganon and Ike's Blessing/Samus' phazon are just Game story mechs.

Just look at what is in the Mario canon that works like Phazon...or what is the other using that is equal to a god...

Anyway...I'll post the reply to some other stuff latter when I have time...so goodbye for now

 

[Kewkky]

1) IDK what mario would do about the darkburst, but it does move pretty slow. By the time samus charges and actually hits him with it, mario could have already used a stopwatch to freeze her. If mario did yet hit, can he get out?

Nope, Mario can't get out once he's inside. It says it's slow, but not THAT slow. Here's a vid of it, look at 4:28 for a speed demonstration... And well, couldn't Samus charge one while speedboosting? She can shoot as many shots as she desires and do all her normal stuff while speedboosting (except stuff which she can only do while stopping, like turning into a morph ball), so it wouldn't be out of the question for her to charge a darkburst and shoot it at a close range while running and invincible.

2)It wouldn't hurt him if he's danger mario, nor anything samus does while he's frozen. Plus, mario can have his Feeling Fine badge, which stops all status effects.

Yeah, forgot about the "Feeling Fine" badge.

3)That does sound nasty, i dont know hhow mario would handle radioactive material in his body....could a life shroom work?

Samus could just repeat the process until Mario dies. She has a lot of energy tanks, and Crystal Flash to fully heal her HP if she uses too much phazon (which she could use while Mario is reviving).

4)Feeling fine should stop a burn

Yeah, forgot about the "Feeling Fine" badge.

5) still, he won't really be hurt

If she can have Mario stay in one place, she can grapple onto him and 'steal' his life away, it's not really 'damaging' Mario.

6)Feeling Fine should stop the burn

Yeah, forgot about the "Feeling Fine" badge.

7)Does the shock coil pierce all defenses? Samus would have to get pretty close, and mario still has starmen, stopwatches, etc.

Yep, it does pierce all defenses. She could get close if she held Mario in place with the Dark Beam's particles, or she could just shoot a Darkburst when Mario's held in place... Anything's fine.

8) Technically, Mario can't be frozen if he has Feeling Fine on.

Yeah, forgot about the "Feeling Fine" badge.

9) I guess that would be pretty fatal, but Mario can still dodge and whatnot. If it hits him, i think he'd be screwed though.

The blast is pretty fast, here's a vid so you can see. A good demonstration is at 2:57, but you can watch the whole thing if you want.

God people...danger Mario is just setting the game mechs for PM:TTYD to his advantage...it's not some official power of Mario...it's if anything just Rolling HP from EB...sort of like how Samus is so called invincible when in hyper-mode...it's hardly "invincibility" at all...god if anything...stuff like Only Link can beat Ganon and Ike's Blessing/Samus' phazon are just Game story mechs.

Just look at what is in the Mario canon that works like Phazon...or what is the other using that is equal to a god...

Anyway...I'll post the reply to some other stuff latter when I have time...so goodbye for now

I think you're better off discussing stuff in "The Deadliest Brawlers", since you clearly do not understand how to debate with characters while they're "true to their game". Maybe some real-world settings will help you debate better.

 

[BSP]

God people...danger Mario is just setting the game mechs for PM:TTYD to his advantage...it's not some official power of Mario...it's if anything just Rolling HP from EB...sort of like how Samus is so called invincible when in hyper-mode...it's hardly "invincibility" at all...god if anything...stuff like Only Link can beat Ganon and Ike's Blessing/Samus' phazon are just Game story mechs.

Just look at what is in the Mario canon that works like Phazon...or what is the other using that is equal to a god...

Anyway...I'll post the reply to some other stuff latter when I have time...so goodbye for now

O_o

So badges are a game mech now? How is it not an official power if he can canocally achieve it?

@Justaway

How do we figure out if attacks will miss or not?

@Kewkky

Mario won't be that close, will he? I'm sure he could just jump away or something. Hmm....what does mario have for evasion guys? It sees like he might have to avoid samus until he gets an opening. He might have to spam starmen. Hmm...does starmen work against samus' weapons? He can freeze her in time if he gets an opening.

 

[justaway12]

I don't know how fast Samus' attacks are but if it's slower than 1 second, he could just Super Jump.

What does grapple look like?

@brouser: Why shouldn't we? If it's more likely too miss, then Mario will just Super Jump.

 

[Kewkky]

@Kewkky

Mario won't be that close, will he? I'm sure he could just jump away or something. Hmm....what does mario have for evasion guys? It sees like he might have to avoid samus until he gets an opening. He might have to spam starmen. Hmm...does starmen work against samus' weapons? He can freeze her in time if he gets an opening.

Getting an opening will be pretty hard if Samus uses the Hyper Mode (25-sec invincibility) as soon as the match starts, then starts her Speed Booster (unlimited invincibility unless she hits an obstacle) and refuses to stop. She can still do whatever she desires, but is invincible... And if you stop Samus while she's in Hyper mode, her invincibility countdown should stop while she's frozen in time, and her invincibility should remain.

@brouser: Why shouldn't we? If it's more likely too miss, then Mario will just Super Jump.

She can keep her weapons charged until Mario is about to land/lands.

And a Hyper Grapple video, let's see... Here's one, at 3:19 (Hyper Grapple's the same thing, except it overloads stuff with Phazon energy instead of her own energy). I'll see if I can get a vid that shows her grappling an enemy and siphoning the energy from it/overloading it with energy, if you guys want a vid of it (i'll get bored in the meanwhile, so please say that one's enough :D)..

 

[justaway12]

Mario lands on her and it goes on forever/as long as he wants to, I would say that his Super Jump takes about the same time but my memories fuzzy so I'll get a video.

Oh and I think he can stack them up.

I know, but really in TTYD, the best strategy was to run Mario with 5 HP, and abuse badges you could get a ton of that were good like Close Call, Power Rush, Defense Plus, basically to the point where Mario was near untouchable and then when he did get hit, it would never hurt him. It kind of ruined some of the fun you got with beating a boss the regular way, but it was just too good to pass up

Here is the vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRxxWg-ooIQ

 

[BSP]

Well, i guess samus wins if she has infiite invincibility, since mario can't stop the speed booster.

 

[justaway12]

Technically, if she misses all his attacks, or misses enough since there are a lot of close calls Mario can stop time, can't he just take her suit off?

And assuming the quote I got was right, Samus can't hit him as well.

 

[BSP]

Technically, if she misses all his attacks, or misses enough since there are a lot of close calls Mario can stop time, can't he just take her suit off?

And assuming the quote I got was right, Samus can't hit him as well.

If she keeps missing, mario is ok. Once she hits, he's in trouble, but mario has many means of avoiding her attacks. How would he take her suit off?

 

[Kewkky]

Technically, if she misses all his attacks, or misses enough since there are a lot of close calls Mario can stop time, can't he just take her suit off?

Not really, Samus' suit is a part of her. This is my source, where it says:

The Power Suit acts as a second skin. As seen in the opening scene in Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, she can control when she puts on the suit internally.

So, removing Samus' suit would be as hard as removing her second skin. Plus, she's invincible, so I don't think you'd be able to damage her 'second skin'.

And assuming the quote I got was right, Samus can't hit him as well.

Samus can aim straight up in all the Metroid games except the Primes... So, Mario bouncing off her would still be pretty nasty for him. And Mario following a supersonic-speeding Samus around and bouncing on her head would also be pretty impossible. : |

 

[BSP]

Wait, is this going to be a tie? Mario won't be able to hit samus, but it doesn't seem like samus will be able to do significant damage either.

 

[justaway12]

If it's part of her body, how could she have changed out of her suit? I remember seeing a picture of her without her helmet. and at the end of the early Metroid, she gets naked/wears a bikini right?

@Super Jump: I assume he can control where to go, and I meant after her suit is taken off.

 

[Kewkky]

If it's part of her body, how could she have changed out of her suit? I remember seeing a picture of her without her helmet. and at the end of the early Metroid, she gets naked/wears a bikini right?

Same thing: "The Power Suit acts as a second skin. As seen in the opening scene in Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, she can control when she puts on the suit internally."... She could take it off if she wanted to, or put it on whenever she wanted to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIu_32cQCC0
1:00, you see her without her suit, then magically the suit appears on her. Im pretty shure she can control it at will, even hold it together if her desire was that... Kinda like people who can dislocate their bones at will, then put them back together whenever they want to, except her suit is made of some crazy metal that can't be broken as easily as bone, so pulling it apart would be a huge feat.

@Super Jump: I assume he can control where to go, and I meant after her suit is taken off.

Well, she COULD always aim straight up and shoot at him.

 

[Samochan]

Why does Mario start with a meager 5 HP again when his max hp aka max potential is way above that amount? <_> That's like already stat upped. Like, in game, you need to reduce his hp to that amount and keep it there.

And would Mario super jump even render Samus immobile? The way the enemies keep just bouncing around on RPG doesn't tell us much, but they don't seem static to me. Samus hyper mode also takes less than a second to activate, so mario would be super jumping at an invincible opponent. I find it doubtful that if she didn't even get damage from an attack, it would stun her in between jumps so that she'd be totally unable to move around and thus retaliate. At such close quarters, much anything Samus did would kill Mario, especially if he's gonna abuse this 5hp strategy.

Samus power suit is biologically connected to her and acts like a second skin, the organic components I mean. There's plenty of mentions from this and you can see she can absorb the suit within her on the ending of Super Metroid & MP3 and does it as well on Zero Mission, along with materialising it back. But it does not mean the suit parts aren't possible to remove manually, as she does with her helmet from time to time. But against her will, it's impossible, as staten by the scientists on Metroid Fusion where they had to forcefully (surgically) cut her suit's metallic parts, aka non organic components, out of her (note, even when unconscious you can't just rip the suit from her).

 

[justaway12]

I'm think that's her because Zero suit, Metroid wiki might be a great place to get info, but I assume it wasn't with a source? I mean I've seen a picture without her head gear on before though I'm not sure if it was a texture or not, so it shows it's removeable

Excuse for my lack of knowledge but I've only played metroid one (and didn't really get that far, **** is hard @_@), but isn't the Varia suit like the same as the normal one, like an upgrade? Couldn't the zero suit be the same?

@Samo: Life shroom gives you 5hp when dead and brought back.

 

[warpd]

The zero suit is not really armor. Just her work clothes when she is not wearing the armor. I guess.

 

[justaway12]

It's just that The other M has lead me to belive other wise, that's all. As well as other games.

 

[_clinton]

There are no shrapnel shells in the game, unless you prove that there are.

Geez wiz…I never said they were shrapnel shells…I was only trying to make a point about the size of the shell and how it doesn’t matter…it would still **** you…

I thought health points/bars/whatever was all game mechanics.

I think you missed my point…I’m saying that Multi-player for Metroid Prime Hunters =/= canon…tell me…what does the weapon that we are talking about do in that game’s single player?

Nope, I'm saying that Buzz, while lv?? (clearly a higher level due to the damage output) still got killed by a simple swat, whereas he could easily take lots of PSI hits due to his HP level compared to Ness's. So, what does this say? Either some PSI are weak, or the game is pretty mixed up with what's going on.

Or it’s just game story mechs. that don’t make sense…I like how you seem to forget that I’ve pointed out so far that some of them don’t make sense…so it really shouldn’t matter how they do it…god if you want a real reason…maybe Buzz Buzz was weak from time travel…you know it’s said that the bloody stuff ****s you up in case you didn’t get that…

So, shooting Ness should kill him since he is a small kid.

Ah no…he gets shot all the time in his battles and it doesn’t kill him…hell…there is a ton of stuff that he takes physically out of battle as well and that doesn’t kill him (traveling to Summers for example) and as for those bugs that so called put up a fight vs. Ness/Lucas…I like how you forget that they are mutated by Giygas’ powers/Porky’s machines and so on…god…some of them have on screen sprites the size of Ness himself…and FYI…Ness’ size is a lie for one screen stuff (look at Fourside and compare to what the size of the sprites are if you don’t get my point)

Oh…and I like how you make fun of Ness/Lucas’ foes…but you don’t seem to get the fact that at least they change “overall more” than what a lot of these other characters fight for foes…I like how there is a type of shriek bat on every world in MP3 for example…and I like how there are like 50 types of the same bug foe Samus is dealing with in each of these games…

Mother 1 doesn't matter since Ness/Lucas are Mother 2/3. And it never explained why Pokey got locked out of time/space travel, so let's leave it like that.

Mother 1 does matter…it is an equal part of the story just like the other 2 games are…It’s shown in Mother 1 how someone can get locked out of time/space for certain areas, how PK powers came to be, and a bunch of other things are shown in it…and considering how Ness knows that Porky is running around in time/space randomly at the end of Mother 2…I like how you don’t think Ness wouldn’t go after him…

(like, at the start of the game. Starman Jr would've done away with Ness if it weren't for Buzz, then the game will end. Hell, even the Sanctuary guardians are too strong for Ness alone to handle. Try beating the game with all your other party members dead all the time, tell me how it goes).

At the start of the game:
A. Starman Jr. wouldn’t have shown up at all if it wasn’t for Buzz Buzz being there…
B. I’ve done a single play through as Ness only…it’s really ****ing easy…the only fights that can’t be done by Ness only are the story battles where you are forced to use someone…which I’ve already explained are just if anything story mechs…because the events could have been done by Ness only from looking at the bloody canon at which Ness is…

Then what IS Giygas? A fetus? Elaborate. >_>

Giygas is a perfect example of what the Dark Dragon would have done if Claus got the powers when he had “no soul” in my personal opinion…because…you know…because Giygas had “no mind” in the end…he pretty much was the same thing that Claus had become…

The Mani-Mani statue =/= Giygas.

Ah no…it is a manifestation of what Giygas’ power is called throughout the game (he is called a devil god or at least a god of some type because of his powers)…please look up what the words mean in the 1st place…but here is a hint about how NoA likes to censor things…
http://earthboundcentral.com/m2eb/moonside/

BTW…the word “Mani” sure does mean some neat things as well if you didn’t get that…

Hey, Ness needed Paula's help to defeat Giygas.

Only by story game mechs. the real facts show that:
A. He is linked to the universes fate just like Giygas and even performs the same move that Giygas does (Rockin) says somethings about his powers…it’s only that Giygas uses his to end everything and Ness uses his to do the other thing…if anything…they are the exact opposite of each other like I said before in case you didn’t get that…
B. The fact that he has telepathic powers just like Paula…how come he needed her again…only because the game creators didn’t put in the “pray” option for Ness seems to be the only reason…
C. Giygas is silenced by the player him/herself finally…breaking the 4th wall sure does say something about this…god…I like how you don’t get the fact that the game likes to thank the player all the time…

And Samus is always going at it alone,

She is hardly always 100% alone…the entire GF helps her in MP3 and she would have died chances are w/o help from those other 3 hunters, Chozo in ghost form help her in MP1, Said race of “light” people add to her support in MP2, Adam and the GF are helping her in MF, the Chozo are always help her in general (as seen in Metroid: Zero Mission)

That certainly beats Ness' one fight with himself, huh?

Ness’ one fight with himself is a lot different than Samus’ fighting herself as 2 main bad guys focused on in 3 games that somehow have copies of her power suit/her DNA…for one thing there is actual Philosophical meanings behind Ness’ fight…not just some clumped up “Dark Samus”

God…the thing with Ness is only brought up one time…with Samus…it’s a large deal that they milk the **** out of…it was ok with the SA-X…but then they did it for 2 more games…I’m pretty sure that with looking at the track record of how the Metroid games have come along (1 is a remake so that doesn’t count) 3/5 of the main new ones have “dark Samus” as the focus in them…

You said that enemies in Mother 3 could also go around space and time. Guess you were wrong when you said Lucas could defeat people who manipulated space and time to their will, huh?

I think you should have actually read my quotes better in the 1st place…because when talking about foes that fight with free control of time/space…I never said that Lucas did…I only said that various NPCs have examples of it being done in Mother 3…and that in the end…according to the game…Lucas would have free control over time/space according to a quote from Kumatora…

God…the things Lucas fights which I said he did…move faster than any human could comprehend, now…Ness has to deal with that as well as foes that have control over time/space…

Cut from the game =/= true to their games.

Ah…no…things get cut from games all the time for various reasons (censor ship) but they could be put in at a newer version of it (a remake)…and in this case…Itoi not having the time to do it for whatever reason and only cutting things for that reason still shows that there was intent of putting them in the game…

He was so strong, he needed a machine to not destroy his own mind...

No…his mind was already destroyed…and the machine was just Porky’s way of controlling him…and again…the whole issue about Ness being the opposite of Giygas sure doesn’t ring any bells with you huh? BTW…the Dragon has two very big opposite outcomes with the power as well…how about that?

You're supposed to shoot stuff into its mouth, not ram into it. Hell, I'm sure if you had Screw Attack there, it still would do nothing. Speed Booster damage is greater than a Super Missile hit, yet the super missile knock Crocomire back. Why must this be? Something REEKS of game mechanics.

Actually…the Super Missile and the power that it packs varies between foes…there are plenty of foes for example that the super missile won’t even touch that the speed booster will…but it’s the same with the speed booster not hurting things that the super missile will…you know…because overall…they are doing two different things to harm foes…

Oh…and I’m still waiting for the reply on how come Samus’ so called “invincibility” can be hurt by Crocomire’s claws/a good amount of other things…you know…that is the main thing I care about…I don’t really care if Samus can hurt you with the speed booster

In every single Mario game, those fires are unavoidable traps theat will hurt you no matter what you do to try and evade it (unless you outright go completely invincible with a star, or with Tanooki suit). Maybe invincible was a strong word... Invulnerable sounds better, no?

Except…it isn’t called invulnerable…Peach is capable of being attacked…while using it…it’s just called a “guard” that is all…and there are plenty of other things that can hurt Peach through her guard as well…besides just something as sad as a fire bar…spike traps for one thing (not just her landing on them…but in general if they land on her as well)

Oh and before you give some bull about how they are just obstacles again…keep in mind that Peach does guard from other “traps”

How is that not proof enough that the only reason Peach’s guard is so good in that game only because of game mechs.?

Fanboy side, eh? It's still a game. And what you said is an opinion.

It’s an opinion that is shared by many people in regards to Nintendo and how they just keep remaking things…I hardly call it a fanboy view…god…even various people making the games are aware of it (after all…most of the Mario RPGs are just satire targeted at the series)

I gave you a list, and you still don't get the fact that he doesn't fight against anyone with it.

And I keep on saying that doesn’t bloody matter…because the thread stats “it’s true to their game”
And I didn’t care if Samus was going to use the hyper beam from Super Metroid or not…

The conscience thing is an assumption.

Ah no…the game clearly points out that Lucas’ soul is linked to the dragon’s…and again about there being a “dragon”

It MAY do whatever desire he has, but hey, so does Bowsers' Star Rod, and no one has used it to wish for anything but invincibility and attacks (which is shown in the first Paper Mario during gameplay).

Again…another difference between Bowser’s star rod and Lucas’ power is that all the dragon’s power is only clearly high level PK that forms it…so…it’s not so much as “wishing” if anything

He got it, yet never used it in a fight. For purposes of this thread, he never gets to use it in his fights. So far, seems true to his game.

Look at the rules please on the 1st page and tell me where you see that a power is only restricted to “in game fights” only? Plus…Lucas did use the power anyway…because the world was ****ed in case you didn’t get that…if Lucas didn’t use the power…then things would have stayed ****ed

The game never says Lucas is the Dragon.

A. I’m saying that the power becomes a part of Lucas…get the fact right…
B. That power becomes a part of Lucas because he was meant to have it because of having PK Love…which is the reason on why his soul is linked to the dragon…
C. The Dragon is a part of the lie on that island made up by the people…because it is clear that the power is just the same one from Mother 2…

Difference between Phazon and the Dragon? Phazon is the "power of the earth" in Metroid Prime: 3, as well as her ammunition. If you want Phazon gone, we're gonna have to take Lucas' PK stuff away, since they're the Dragons' powers since PK is Lucas' powers, as well as his ammunition.

Phazon isn’t a ****ing part of Samus like the Power Lucas has…please get that right…Phazon is just a parasite if anything…and I never said that Phazon should be gone…I’m just trying to get you people to figure out that plenty of things that the other characters have are far closer to breaking the rules in this thread than what Lucas has…

I thought it called Lucas his master, then fulfilled his desires. :embarrass

The power calling Lucas “master” is just the game telling you what is the relationship between them…

Not accepted.

Ah no…Lucas/Claus clearly had to fight over the power…

Speculation. What part of the game says that the Dragon isn't a Dragon, but just high-level PK?

Well…it’s called the power of the earth for one thing…

Oh, and interviews aren't in the games, so they don't count.

I’m like shocked no one has replied to this bull yet…

Interviews are in higher regard than anything else for the game…because they are talking about the game…how can something that is talking about the game not be allowed?

They certainly beat an instruction booklet if anything…and they beat the game itself…because the guy who made it could take away from the game…god…

First of all, the battlegrounds in these scenarios are plain: just think of nothingness everywhere, and them walking on nothingness. PK Ground wouldn't work.

I think you missed my point…I was saying…how can you think Lucas in his game…who can change the world to his desire…can’t perform something like PK Ground…which is just using TK to screw with the ground in just one area?

I don’t care about the scenarios of where we are fighting at ATM…

Wanna give Samus a portable nuke? Omega Cannon says "hi". I'd like to see the contenders of this thread stand up to portable nukes.

So…where were you when I said that Ness/Lucas have dealt with nukes being blown up on them from just common foes?

All life and all time will be reborn... Oh yes, that sounds like Lucas will be in control, most definitely. More like... Everything will be restarted.

He is the one in charge of it…god…he is the one calling the shots on how to do it in case you don’t get that…

Samus would shoot faster than Lucas can put up his shield.

Yeah…no…maybe if Lucas gets sneak attacked on…and again…how will that kill Lucas when it isn’t removing his spirit? What didn’t you get about how psychic’s in the series seem to be more linked to a spirit than there body?

Samus takes two? Reserve tanks, bam, she's alive and you're dead.

So…Lucas can’t move in between these rounds? I like how you think he is just going to let Samus shoot him…

Point is, his fall broke. Remember that it's a comedic game, so a pile of hay would've been perfect.

His fall broke with no harm…and again…Lucas takes a large amount of falls from other things as well…plus…we don’t know what broke Duster’s or Kumatora’s fall…

Fuel Gel. Meh, whatever, point is that something insanely hot (hotter than lava) was the only thing able to ACTUALLY harm it.

How do you know that it was hotter than lava? You are aware that lava comes in various forms right? God…for all we know…the lava that burned him apart could have just been lava that is closer to the center of the planet than the one that Samus is immune to (sometimes…remember…the games vary)

So Miyamoto was wrong and they could actually prove it.

Yeah…they proved it by using common sense based off the logic from what other games say…

How about that?

I think you're better off discussing stuff in "The Deadliest Brawlers", since you clearly do not understand how to debate with characters while they're "true to their game". Maybe some real-world settings will help you debate better.

How the hell is exploiting the game mechs. for PM:TTYD being true to their game?

And I'm fully aware of what "being true to their game" is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_(fiction)

So badges are a game mech now? How is it not an official power if he can canocally achieve it?

I'm not saying badges are a game mech.

I'm saying that exploitation of those badges to create something like Danger Mario is a game mech.

God…how can anyone look me in the eyes with a straight face and tell me that Mario being able to KO the strongest foe in the game with one move was what the developers for the game had in mind…

(note, even when unconscious you can't just rip the suit from her).

Yeah you can...it's just going to cause permanent harm to her...like you guys say...it's like removing your skin...it can be done...you just wouldn't actually want it to be ever done to you...

And I don't see why it would be hard to do...the only things I'd make sure to do if given a chance is remove her arm canon from the combat...sure it would be like breaking her arm...but whatever...it's not like Mario couldn't do it if given a chance...considering how he pretty much is seen like this guy in power:

 

[Kewkky]

Her Zero Suit is her "second skin". It can call the suit out, remove it, and tighten it however she wishes, since it's neurologically implanted into her. So, if she wants to make it impossible to remove, she can do it... It wouldn't make much sense if Metroid Fusion required surgeons to to remove her armor suit, as well as many incredibly powerful blasts that Samus takes never even scratches her suit (unless her energy tanks run out, since that's the protective shielding), and then Mario comes along and just pulls it apart... If you can do this, then I guess Mario/Luigi/Bowser/Peach can stop time against Ike and other invincible opponents and pull their limbs apart, because that's practically what you'll be doing if you try to rip off Samus' suit.

Samus' original suit is the Power Suit, when it has absolutely no upgrades to it. When Samus gets the Varia Suit upgrade, she is still wearing the Power Suit, but now components have been added to it (those huge shoulder globes, as well as chest/arm/leg enhancements). It's still the Power Suit, though.

 

[justaway12]

Wait, I'm confused are you saying her Zero suit her the second skin, or her Power suit?

And if it is the Zero suit can't they remoe her helmet? Like this? http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/metroid/images/d/d2/Samus-no_helmet.png

At that ripping off limbs thing, can't like everyone above c tier rip limbs off? I mean, they have fought powerful things.
E.G. Ike and his dragons, Samus and Ridley, Mario and breaking castles.

 

[BSP]

@Clinton

But, he can achieve in his game, and since this is true to their games, he gets it. Mario cab be broken without danger mario too. Just stack as many charges as possible, charge, then jump, win.

 

[justaway12]

Or it's a tie, since she can't hit him.

 

[_clinton]

Her Zero Suit is her "second skin". It can call the suit out, remove it, and tighten it however she wishes, since it's neurologically implanted into her. So, if she wants to make it impossible to remove, she can do it... It wouldn't make much sense if Metroid Fusion required surgeons to to remove her armor suit, as well as many incredibly powerful blasts that Samus takes never even scratches her suit (unless her energy tanks run out, since that's the protective shielding),

Plenty of things have scratched Samus' suit canon wise...

Crashing in Zero Mission canceled it out fully
Metroid Prime 1 bomb thing somehow ****ed her
Metroid Prime 2 getting **** by the Ing somehow ****ed her
Metroid Prime 3 she was out cold for more than one week...
Super Metroid Mother Brain disabled her movement systems/weapons with a good hit from a beam cannon
Metroid Fusion's Omega Metroid was going to eat her after clawing her

The only reason most normal foes with all their claws and such never do is if anything just a story game mech. if anything...after all...how much harm has Samus truly been hurt by canon wise and not just game play harm? I'd say her suit is a lot more open than what you guys think it is

Spoiler

(That's just my counter for what you guys said earlier about Samus and her losing her power suit is just a story game mech harm...even though the examples you gave for a "counter" involved the simple fact that Samus was at full power later/had help from other beings...you are free to disregard this part of the post about Samus if you want because I'm just ****ing around with this)

Mario/Luigi/Bowser/Peach can stop time against Ike and other invincible opponents and pull their limbs apart, because that's practically what you'll be doing if you try to rip off Samus' suit.

Actually...I still question Mario and friends skill at stopping time as true or not...and not just a game mech. in order to make the game easier...

I mean...you'd think more people in the mushroom world would talk about someone being able to stop time...I mean...it's not like the Sonic games...where it is clearly there as part of the story canon...but this time stop more or less seems to be just game play...and shouldn't be taken seriously...

But whatever...Mario can flip in between dimensions...and time is the 4th dimension...so who knows...I guess it could be canon...with Mario at least...

@Clinton

But, he can achieve in his game, and since this is true to their games, he gets it. Mario cab be broken without danger mario too. Just stack as many charges as possible, charge, then jump, win.

Ok then...please tell me how do you think that would work on on this neutral battlefield?

Again...this leads to one of my earlier *****ing about game play mechs.

How much health do you think 20 hearts are worth if they were to be transferred over to other games? There is no clear way of telling in case you don't get that...so...the only things you can truly go with are the facts...such as Mario is ****ing broken as hell in his game world...where as Samus is ****ing broken as hell in her game world...

So...what makes them broken? What moves do they really have that could get transferred over?

Stuff like Mario being able to flip in between dimensions for example...it seems like you could use that more than something like: Mario jumps on Samus until she dies like you guys are saying...

Plus...how is Mario going to avoid the missiles anyway with danger Mario? They home in on targets for a good % of the games...

 

[PowerBomb]

_clinton, those are story mechanics.

Imperialist laser takes... a lot less than a second to hit Mario.

 

[Kewkky]

Samus removed the helmet because she wanted to remove the helmet. If anyone else could remove her armor by pulling on it, then why is it that the Grapple Beam Ing boss from MP2 doesn't rip Samus' armor off when he grapples you and you fight against its pulling force? If it's as easy as grabbing the helmet and pulling it, shouldn't the boss' Gapple Beam be enough to rip her suit to pieces?

The Zero Suit is what gives Samus control of her armor. She can make the armor disappear, reappear, weaken its tightness and strengthen it however she desires as long as she's conscious. Notice that when the surgeons removed her suit pieces, they left some vital armor parts that, if removed, would disable Samus (helmet, cannon, Zero suit).

I don't think Mario and the people should be allowed to pull and rip apart enemies, since they never do it in their games, and it's a bit.... Gruesome for what Mario and friends are able to do. And it would be roleplaying, not true to their games. Olimar, for example, can just send his pikmins inside people through their ears/noses and destroy their insides, that would get him a spot or two higher in the tier list (he'd be able to beat Pichu, for example, with yellow pikmin), but it can't be done in the games, so I don't think we should be able to let characters do stuff that their games never allow them to do.

 

[justaway12]

Well, remember, most attacks won't hit Mario because of those close calls and whatnot, can't he just play the music box?

ATM, it might be a tie, IDK.

And weren't we adding just the slightest bit of realism into this? Like not being able to avoid time stop? Ehhh, I still think it would be a tie.

 

[BSP]

Actually...I still question Mario and friends skill at stopping time as true or not...and not just a game mech. in order to make the game easier....

They use the stopwatch to stop time, they can't actually do it themselves. It's an item, how could that be a game mech.?

I mean...you'd think more people in the mushroom world would talk about someone being able to stop time...I mean...it's not like the Sonic games...where it is clearly there as part of the story canon...but this time stop more or less seems to be just game play...and shouldn't be taken seriously......

Again, the people themselves don't stop time, they use stopwatches. Are you saying that we shouldn't take gameplay seriously? Isnt it kinda where we're getting most of our info from?

But whatever...Mario can flip in between dimensions...and time is the 4th dimension...so who knows...I guess it could be canon...with Mario at least......

No, mario has been shown to flip between 2d and 3d. It think this is what people mean about your deductions/speculations/etc.

Ok then...please tell me how do you think that would work on on this neutral battlefield?

Again...this leads to one of my earlier *****ing about game play mechs.

How much health do you think 20 hearts are worth if they were to be transferred over to other games? There is no clear way of telling in case you don't get that...so...the only things you can truly go with are the facts...such as Mario is ****ing broken as hell in his game world...where as Samus is ****ing broken as hell in her game world...

So...what makes them broken? What moves do they really have that could get transferred over?

Stuff like Mario being able to flip in between dimensions for example...it seems like you could use that more than something like: Mario jumps on Samus until she dies like you guys are saying...

Plus...how is Mario going to avoid the missiles anyway with danger Mario? They home in on targets for a good % of the games...

Danger mario will work perfectly fine. Just stack plenty of last stands. If you say Danger mario is a game mech., that would mean you are saying that the badges are game mechs, and they're not

I dont see where you're going with the health thing

I'm using danger mario mainly for defense here. If he has about 70 last stands, he recieves 1/2 to the 70th power of the original damage.

 

[missingnomaster]

9) X-Ray + Nova Beam: It's a known fact that enemies in MP3 that have lots of defense and usually require many hits to kill or some removal of the armor, can be killed in one shot by turning on the X-Ray visor, aiming at the head of the enemy, and shooting a single blast. If you don't aim this way, it takes longer to kill them. This should point out that it penetrates defenses, since it strikes the target's brain.

I'm pretty sure the piercing headshot effect only works on enemies with phazite armor, or phazite qualities.

However, since it can be stacked with the Super Metroid Plasma Beam in this thread, Samus doesn't need to use the X-Ray Visor to strike a target's brain, and she could hit her target multiple times very quickly because of the beam's high rate of fire.

Firing quickly enough would make it a lot harder for Mario to dodge.

 

[Kewkky]

Mario can't use the music box during the fight (he can only do so before fights, and in this thread everyone starts in a neutral position, with nothing used beforehand), and no matter how many Close Calls he has, Samus will eventually hit him.

I don't know if the Close Calls should be allowed, since it adds the factor of 'luck' to attacks, where Samus' attacks always hit the opponent as long as you see the attack hit. Close Call doesn't make Mario run around and evade it, it makes the opponent mess up his aim and miss. Samus has adjustable aim and a very high rate of fire, as well as infinite ammo, so I don't think she COULD ever miss if pitted on a real-time battle against other Nintendo characters... In her games, you move out of the way of attacks to make them miss, and with Mario, the enemies' attacks land right next to Mario (if they're rapidfire they miss consecutively)... I don't think Close Calls would work in this thread.

And I just thought of something... Samus' Plasma Beam from Super Metroid goes through enemies, right? It penetrates their defenses. So, shouldn't it penetrate Mario's 'Last Stand' defenses? With Mario only having 5HP, it should easily take him out in one hit... And also, how many 'Last Stand's can you get in the games? This is a legit question and not an argument btw, cuz I don't remember where in the game you could get infinite Last Stands.

 

[justaway12]

He can use it during fights. he open up the item menu, right? He also has his stop watch.

The thing about close call is, Mario's attacks always hit too, as well as the enemies, without close call, but tht power-up makes it different, the enemies can't miss with their attacks.

Mario's last stand isn't really a defence, it's more of an evade sort of thing, his defense, is actually defending.

I think it's either 90 or so, not sure about the amount at all xD

oh yeah, at the first part of the comment, check my quote again.
I think Mario doesn't get hurt...or hardly, I'll check, it's that "it would never hurt him" thing.

I know, but really in TTYD, the best strategy was to run Mario with 5 HP, and abuse badges you could get a ton of that were good like Close Call, Power Rush, Defense Plus, basically to the point where Mario was near untouchable and then when he did get hit, it would never hurt him. It kind of ruined some of the fun you got with beating a boss the regular way, but it was just too good to pass up

 

[Samochan]

Eh, zero suit doesn't have anything to do wth her power suit, nor is it her second skin, per se. It doesn't control her maipulation of her power suit either, we've seen her do it in Super Metroid & Fusion too, which neither feature Zero suit. It's just a skintight full-body jumpsuit she wears underneath. On zero mission, when you go to raid the pirate base in just your zero suit, she makes a remark how she was stripped of her power suit. Not to mention the material she wears is clearly not organic. Even if more recent metroid games feature zero suit as the staple "underwear" beneath her suit, it certainly doesn't mean it's a must and disproves it's connection with the actual power suit. Samus has been wearing bikinis and other type of clothing since the very beginning, but zero suit is likely a better option of clothing on missions if a situation akin to what happened on Zero mission were to occur. She also does happen to wear an orange top and shorts on the endings of Zero missions as daily wear, it seems. Fusion suit's organic material has nothing to do with zero suit either, heck Fusion came before Zero suit was even invented. =D

I'm wondering whether Sammy should have hyper beam from Super Metroid... she retained it till the end of the game, after she beat Mother Brain whom she got it from and her equipment only disappears into thin air because of plot and not because the suit is incapable of handling stuff. If she gains stuff, it'll likely stick with her unless a crucial component disappears like curing from phazon corruption = no phazon to use. And basically, it was Mother brain's life energy transferred to Samus, from which she got her beam weapon in the first place, so she basically assimilated part of Mother brain to herself (not to mention MB is basically chozo invention too). Funnily enough, even on Fusion, there's no proof that she had lost the hyper beam earlier either. You can't control her before she loses her weaponry and her suit, through which thsi particular weapon was to be used. One could argue that SA-X in that case should've gotten hyper beam, but frankly, it's a plot/hyper beam would be way too powerful to use/game makers didn't care. X-parasites only copied, but imperfectly. It wasn't Samus in essence, not her life energy, which is something the X's can only mimic but not replicate perfectly. Thus no hyper beam, which is connected to her very life energy because of the way she got it in the first place. It's not an inventory weapon either, further supporting this.

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ Mario is able to win if his game is based from Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door. It depends on what badges he have at his max stats and what items he hold, (with the item sack, he can hold 20 items). ☆

 

[Kewkky]

He can use it during fights. he open up the item menu, right?

The thing about close call is, Mario's attacks always hit too, as well as the enemies, without close call, but tht power-up makes it different, the enemies can't miss with their attacks.

He opens up an item menu that never carries a "music box", kind of like how Kirby's copy ability trophies can't have a Tornado ability for purposes of this thread, due to the game he has trophies in not having the Tornado ability. And the game with the Music Box only lets you use it outside of a battle, so yeah.

When Mario equips 'Close Call's you see the enmies attack and their attacks landing right next to Mario, or going right past him off the screen. The enemies are literally missing their attacks, and they can't aim them. In pokemon, there's an attack called "Lock On" that gives the next hit a 100% chance to hit, and Samus can lock on. Going by the effects of "locking on" in a turn-based game like Pokemon and applying it on another turn-based game like Paper Mario, shouldn't that give Samus a 100% chance to hit too, since she can lock on?



And "Ahhhhh" at SamoChan's comment. Well, guess Samus just controls her suit even while butt-naked.

 

[justaway12]

The thing is, as I said, every character in the game has a "lock on" meaning that it will never miss at all, the badge changes that, and read my edit please

 

[Kewkky]

What I meant by the "Lock On" option in Pokemon is that, even if the opposing pokemon lowers the opponents' accuracy as much as possible and increases its avoidability as much as possible, if the opponent uses "Lock On", all of the accuracy and avoidability becomes moot, since the pokemon is locking on, and the next hit will hit 100% of the time regardless of what your Pokemon does (unless he flies, digs or dives, but that's what Thunder, Earthquake and [what water move beats dive?] are for)... That's what I meant by locking on.

I don't think in PP:TTYD the opponents had a "100% hit-rate attack" that bypassed all accuracy/avoidability decreases/increases. But, considering that Pokemons' "Lock On" is that they're locking onto the opponent, and Samus has a lock-on mechanism in her visor and she can lock onto her enemies (as seen in the Metroid Primes), it would make sense if she would get the benefits of the same locking on as Pokemon do.

Turn-based games being brought into real-time worlds is always so confusing due to mechanics in the turn-based games... And isn't avoidability/accuracy battle mechanics for turn-based games that allow your characters to actually avoid attacks, since they're just standing there and you can't avoid them manually? Would that fall under "game mechanics"?

 

[Samochan]

Samus doesn't need to hit directly, her weapons home in themselves/have wide range and unable to be dodged from close quarters. =)

Read above edited post bout hyper beam pls.

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ The first two Paper Mario titles, both the Mario team and the enemy had 100% hit rate. On TTYD your attacks can have a chance of missing if the field is full of fog, or if someone is dizzy. ☆

☆ If someone that uses Mario on TTYD is great with Super Gard, watch out. >.< ☆

 

[justaway12]

Yes, but she isn't shown to get those benefits, lock on in Metroid could be different to lock on in Pokemon. Well, unless the shots lock-on, not just her suit thing. then it would depend on how fast they are as well as Mario comng in and using his items as starman.

As starman, he could just get repel gel, Samus can't hit what she can't see...

 

[Kewkky]

Yes, but she isn't shown to get those benefits, lock on in Metroid could be different to lock on in Pokemon. Well, unless the shots lock-on, not just her suit thing. then it would depend on how fast they are as well as Mario comng in and using his items as starman.

As starman, he could just get repel gel, Samus can't hit what she can't see...

Samus can wait out the effects of anything Mario has while running around with the Speed Booster, after all, they all have timers.

And well, she could always just shoot charged Dakr Beams at the floor until one of the shots' particles catch Mario (they're homing), and hold him in place for long enough so that Samus can spam her Plasma Beam on him (which penetrates defenses), or grapple Mario (which isn't an attack) and overload him with phazon... Or go Hyper Ball and attack him with phazon that hits on 100% accuracy as long as she's near Mario. As long as Mario is held in place by something, she can do that.

And why can't Samus hold Mario in place with the DarkBeam particles, then shoot a Darkburst at him, sending him into another dimension? No amount of life shrooms will get Mario out of there, so Samus remains alone in the battlefield as the victor.

 

[Samochan]

Yes, but she isn't shown to get those benefits, lock on in Metroid could be different to lock on in Pokemon. Well, unless the shots lock-on, not just her suit thing. then it would depend on how fast they are as well as Mario comng in and using his items as starman.

As starman, he could just get repel gel, Samus can't hit what she can't see...

Many of her weapons have automatic homing functions if you target an enemy, such as wave beam & wavebuster (yumm), annihilator, missiles + super missile + ice spreader, entangler (dark beam charge shot)..

And samus has a build in radar. She only needs to face the direction (or not even face) where Mario's in and let wavebuster rip (homes into nearest enemy regardless if you have locked on or not). Or she could hyper mode and charge up, then let a load at Mario's general direction. Or Perhaps moprh into a ball, boost bump and power bomb his ***. She doesn't lose her lock on even if her vision is obscured however.