Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

[Kewkky]

Yeah, Bowser's inhaling strength is definitely better... He's also bigger than Kirby, so his views of "small and big" are wayyy different than Kirby's.

 

[PowerBomb]

That is irrelevant, the point is that the way he loses is wrong. Rather than "He's just a toy robot..." it could be "He has limited functions as a robot and is unable to fight, his stacking abilities wouldn't help him".

And? Not that big of a deal. Different summaries, whatever

 

[Kewkky]

Raizen, people agreed that this match is a tie due to both of the characters being invincible forever. : |

 

[missingnomaster]

What if Bowser became invincible and inhaled Ike? Would that mean anything?

 

[Kewkky]

What if Bowser became invincible and inhaled Ike? Would that mean anything?

Well, inhaling Ike isn't DAMAGING him, so it'd be pretty nasty. Whenever Ike gets close, Bowser could inhale him. XD

But how does the inhale work, anyway? Can you do it at any time?

 

[IsmaR]

I've been playing Bowser's Inside Story as well. He does get a lot of pretty interesting and good abilities.

Spoiler

-Retry clocks = Start the battle over with full life/sp/items.
-The strength to apparently pull islands(lolRegigigas), throw a giant cannonball, plow through hard rocks underground, and various other things.
-The ability(although it is a bit debatable that it needs someone/something to trigger it) to greatly grow in size when in critical moments to Bowser's health, such as being crushed(in theory, this could work against M/L's Mega Mushrooms). This also included enhanced abilities, such as shooting fireballs capable of shooting down air ships/etc.
-Swallow/inhale things. This is also used to steal things from enemies, like Blitties, enemy items/parts, and so on.
-Agility, evidenced by his punches being able not only to send him quickly hurtling towards the opponent, but momentarily let him go through the air.
Uhh...I'll think of more later.

Not that Bowser really needs 'em. Apparently if invincibility and unlimited wishing isn't enough to beat Ike, nothing is.

 

[missingnomaster]

Kewky: I haven't gotten far enough in the game to know that, but information on the back of the box suggests that you can do that.

 

[_clinton]

Well...this is a long post...

You never even see the size of the shell (or whatever) fired. The power and blast could range from deadly to...not super deadly.

The bloody outside battle sprite of the tank has a gun that is about the size of Salsa...and the size of the blast hardly matters...please look up what Shrapnel shells are if you don’t believe me...

Oh and I think your description of deadly to not super deadly doesn't get away with something like the NKC from chapter 8...I mean...how is a “natural killer” not using deadly weapons? I mean...it uses a move called "End of the Century Beam" (which still...a power shield will defend from...even if it is one of the coolest attacks in that game coming from a boss foe)

So? It's an OHKO headshot anyway. Samus locks on, zooms, BANG. Auto-lock is amazing.

It's a OHKO headshot vs. a bunch of characters that have 199 health for multi-mode (btw...I hardly consider multi-mode to be as canon as the one player event that happens in that game…god…the sniper rifle in good hands always wins in multi 1st person shooters in case you don’t get that)

And what makes you think that Samus can auto lock that move? It's manual use only...

No. Giygas is SENDING the enemies from the past to the future. The enemies aren't freely going through time and space.

Ah no...they are actually doing it themselves...Stonehedge base is proof of them doing things like that...ever look at what Starmen do there?

#1 Ness didn't beat him... #2 the one who stood up to the space/time travelling guy died at a powerless fat lady's hand).

The point you made with #1 is you again assuming that Ness is like level 1 in his power for the full game...fun fact...he gets stronger...

#2...the being was a fly phys. just like how Ness is a little kid physically (who is linked to the universe by end game for his power...how about that...how can you not think he isn't using god level power for his PK with that info?)...I've never rebutted that fact at all in case you didn't get that yet...he is just a normal little kid...who becomes sort of what happens in God of War to the main character...

Another thing...is the point you're trying to make in this argument just Ness/Lucas will be getting sneak attacked in this? And that they won't know about their foe? Because it seems to be one of the things you are saying...

And hey, if they had full control of space and time, why didn't they kill Ness's parents after they realized Ness was awakening his powers more and more? Something smells of story mechanics.

It's been shown that you can get locked out of certain points in time/space...ever play Mother 1? Did you get what happened in that game to the aliens? Or even get the simple fact at what happened to Porky in Mother 3 and how he ended up at the Nowhere Islands?

Plus...the fact that Ness' soul was linked to the universe is another point I'd like to make...maybe it's just the fact that they can't stop him no matter what they do from getting his powers because of "destiny"

Which btw...Destiny is a large topic that is talked about in Mother 2...Giygas clearly tries to stop him btw...you know...having a bunch of things that are locked under his influence absorb the power that is linked to Ness in 8 areas...

And of course there are story mechanics for this game that don't make sense...god Ness and his team wipe out a being that was the sole reason for them going on that adventure in the 1st place...and people know that they did it by end game...

Oh, and hey, I think Giygas was destroying Ness & co., and if it weren't for Paula, hed've died.

I like how Ness and his team weren't even at low reserves for that point in the fight that you keep talking about...and how you still don't get that Giygas wasn't the "ultimate evil" even after I point out that he was in "pain" for that fight...god...what didn't you get about how it is easier to "heal" than it is to just beat up on something that is in pain?

I mean...Ness by himself with Jeff just wiped out Giygas' power in moonside...as in they had already dealt with a large amount of what Giygas was before he even fought them...I mean...how can you not get that?

The only main character that has really been screwed and needed help so many times is for this topic of what we are talking about is Samus herself...I mean...it's like a requiring theme in the Metroid games to have her A. Need outside help on the final boss/some point in the game in some way...B. Blow the **** out of something...

God...they are like totally original with these games huh? God...they've had Samus fight herself like 3 times now...in case you don't get that...

Pokey's machine is helping him travel through space and time, he can't do it by himself. Hell, he can't even walk by himself without the aid of his machine. Who else in Lucas' game has the ability to travel through space and time freely, as you keep re-stating?

I think you missed my point with Porky...I said he was using a machine to help him screw with time...I never said he did it himself...

The Magypsy, Ionia in that game have also shown that he can seal things in time...how about that? I mean...there are even points where Kumatora showed that she could use teleport PSI (or something like that) but it was cut from the game (along with 4 chapters, more than 4 playable characters for whatever reason)

Something tells me that this machine is the Devil's Machine that Giygas was using to send enemies through space and time,

Ah no...the "devil's machine" was the thing that was holding Giygas' power in place...as in not going out of control...

Note that the definition doesn't say "unstoppable". You can stop Samus from moving by putting unmovable/invincible (or a mix of both) objects in the way, such as super missile blocks/work robots/walls. I think your views of what "invincibility" is may be a bit warped.

>_>
What happens if you overcome an invincible thing…what did you do it?

If anything, that boss was invulnerable to all of Samus' weaponry (true), and the blasts to the mouth only fazed it and made it take steps back due to the shock, and not because it was getting hurt.

This is funny…because the shine spark wasn’t even doing that…how about that? You’d think that a full body ram at supersonic speeds directed at the mouth would at least knock the thing back…I mean…a beam weapon does at least…

That isn't even an attack, that's an obstacle.

Right…and still…Peach can’t defend from it…but she can defend from other certain types of obstacles…how about that?

I played and beat the **** game, don't assume I didn't.

I like how you can call it a **** game despite the fact that at least it is more original than 90% of the Mario/Zelda/Metroid games these days…

That's no argument, _clinton. We're talking "true to their games", meaning that Samus can use phazon like she could in her games.

And…Lucas should be able to use the powers of the earth just like he did in his game…why can’t he again except for the simple fact that you guys don’t want him to?

1) Because the Dragon has a consciousness of its own. It's his own character.

The Dragon does have a consciousness of its own…how about that…it’s linked to Lucas’ in case you didn’t get that still…I mean…it’s a “reflection” of him…you know seen in it and the dragon is seen in Lucas’ conscious

The dragon’s conscious is Lucas’ in case you need it spelled out…this is why it was important that Lucas would be the one to unlock the power instead of Claus…Itoi in an interview pretty much said that if someone who didn’t have a soul unlocked the power…it would be like dividing by 0! As in…we are all ****ed if that happens!

Still…why is the triforce and it’s parts still allowed in this despite the rules… LttP is pretty clear on how the bloody triangles “know what is going on” in case you don’t get that…

2) Lucas never used him during his fights, so using it during his fights in this thread wouldn't be allowed.

Lucas’ fights ended at the end of the game before he got the power…but he still got the power…if he doesn’t get the power of the earth…than please tell me how you people think he is being “true” to his game?

3) Lucas handled himself very well without the use of the Dragon, so he doesn't need it to win fights here.

Ah no…PK Love is the representation of Lucas’ link to the dragon…if anything…your comment should read…

“Lucas handled himself very well without the full power of the earth in him woken up”

4) Even if they're linked, the Dragon's considered backup.

It’s still less than what Phazon is…you know…which is just that it’s Lucas himself pretty much

Phazon in case you haven’t got it yet…is a sentient life form all of it’s own…that eats away at whatever it touches…just like the X from Metroid Fusion

Lucas and Claus are closer than Lucas and the Dragon are

No not really…considering how the Dragon “becomes” whatever they are in the end…

The Dragon only shares his power with Lucas.

Ah no…The dragon becomes Lucas’ power in the end…it would become Claus’ as well in the end…and they would have to fight over it till one of them yielded if they weren’t on equal terms with it…

No matter how close two entities are, they are still separate entities...

How is something that is a reflection of what you are…separate?

5) We know the Dragon can fulfill any desire, but it's too vague. For how long? Does it fulfill more desires after it fulfills the original desires? How long does it take for the Dragon to act? Can it be influenced by anything at all besides Lucas? What would happen if Lucas fell asleep/got frozen/got stopped in time/got sent to another dimension/died while the Dragon was in the process of granting his desires?

Dude…the power calls Lucas master…how would it stop calling Lucas master? The power is just high level psychic energy…how long do you think it takes Lucas to think is how long it takes the power to act…and yeah it can be influenced by anything besides Lucas…god…all it takes is for someone like Porky to come along and want something…it has to be ok with Lucas 1st…before it gets granted…but that is what could happen…finally…if someone without a soul summons the dragon and it is considered dividing by 0…what do you think will happen? The power of the earth will die…if the user dies…and everything that the power has touched…will go with it…that is what Itoi said you know…

Here is the interview…look it up and figure it out…
http://mother3.fobby.net/interview/

Well…it’s on this page actually…
http://mother3.fobby.net/interview/m3int_08.html

Au contraire, I KNOW that the game mechanics are there to make the game more challenging.

So…how come Lucas can’t use PK Ground then? Huh? How is remaking the Earth how you want…not being able to use PK Ground in some way?

how it gives him power over space and time.

I think you need to check the game script again it seems…
http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/gbadvance/file/914622/42740
Here it is again…

Kumatora: Long ago I heard this from Ionia: When the dragon sleeping under
the island wakes, all life and all time will be reborn. I'm sure
what's going to happen, but I want to be there and see it to the
end. Lucas, can I go with you? I want to.

Or, oh, I don't know... Since it travels at the speed of light, we can just aim at Lucas' head whenever then shoot, Lucas CANNOT evade it at such a close distance.

I never said Lucas has to evade it at such a close distance…I said he could take it because of his psychic powers…so the question I have for you is…Could Samus take it?

Samus never dies both in cutscenes and in-game, even when attacked with retardedly powerful blasts (Mother Brain's super laser, Omega Metroid's attacks) or jumping off of amazingly high places. If she lands on the floor, she just grunts and keeps on walkin'. If she falls through a bottomless pit, she take extremely minor damage and is back where she jumped off.

Mother Brain’s hyper beam-leaves Samus crippled with 0 missiles and power bombs…and can’t move after that…so she keeps getting rapped
Omega Metroid’s attack-leaves Samus crippled with 1 HP…and can’t move

Both of those are sure as hell nice examples of showing that Samus was more screwed than Ness was with Giygas…what with how he had 900 some odd HP still and how the prayer stuff did the same things to Giygas has just would have beating him up did in the long run (It’s true…look at how you enter that third part of the fight anyway)

Also…Samus does more than just grunt in Metroid Prime from a large fall…she does take damage from taking that fall…and bottomless pits I don’t care about…because canon wise…she has never fallen in one…the return to the point where she jumped off is just the game’s way of saying…oops…you didn’t really do that…but we hate you anyway so here is an energy damage…

She used Psi to stop the physical attacks the tanks were trying to do to her. What about the mosquito at the start of EarthBound?

Already talked about this…

If you're talking about Thunder Tower, Alec had to pile hay where Lucas fell, or he would've died...

Thunder Tower is just one of the falls Lucas takes actually…and I think breaking your fall with just a pile of hay and not having anything else harmed says some things about Lucas…

Get the Plasma Beam and use it against Crocomire. Apparently, Plasma is hotter but doesn't do squat. Lava kills it, but Plasma Beam spam doesn't?

That isn't lava that kills it...or at least isn't the same type of lava that the gravity suit protects from...

And I'm pretty sure you shouldn't have the plasma beam by the time you fight Crocomire anyway...you know...because the plasma beam is only opened to you when you fight a certain boss...which isn't going to go down easy w/o the grapple beam/getting the gravity suit 1st...

If we start discrediting official statements then what does that say about Mother? Why should we accept your ideas over Nintendo's word?

How come you accept this thing again?
http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Miyamoto_Order

God...I'm not saying you should discredit everything...just stuff that clearly isn't 100% true

Omega is also the most powerful form of PSI that can be reached. Lucas after pulling that last needle would not be able to reach a higher form of the attack because he was already at his limit.

Omega is only the most powerful form of PSI that can be reached for the “players use”...but in case you didn't get how Mother 2 worked...there are more ways to show you having great psychic powers than just some named omega…
Ness' PP…as in the thing that represents psychic power in the 1st place… reaches Paula's level (Paula being the “gifted” psychic btw) and then it doubles! As in…300…becomes 600…
God...all of his stats go up a **** load as well!
PK whatever Omega…doesn’t matter…just PP…the only thing that matters with psychic powers and their names is Rockin/Love…because that is the only one that is seen as having some limit for learning!

I do have a question...if Ninten's grandpa introduced PSI to the human race after he went to the alien world how come PSI is shown to have already been on earth 1000 years ago?

What do you mean with this? Are you talking about the pyramid? The people there didn’t have psychic powers…in fact…they didn’t know anything about them…

Also...about Bowser's skills from that Mario RPG...they really don't seem like anything new to me...the only thing that seems new is that they are nice enough to give you an idea about how he does them in the 1st place

 

[missingnomaster]

God...they are like totally original with these games huh? God...they've had Samus fight herself like 3 times now...in case you don't get that...

I'd just like to point out that demonstrating personal bias against the character you're arguing against is never really a good thing.

Not responding to the rest of your post.

 

[PowerBomb]

It's a OHKO headshot vs. a bunch of characters that have 199 health for multi-mode (btw...I hardly consider multi-mode to be as canon as the one player event that happens in that game…god…the sniper rifle in good hands always wins in multi 1st person shooters in case you don’t get that)

And what makes you think that Samus can auto lock that move? It's manual use only...

Head-shots in the SP work as well. Besides, it's not the gun that's causing her to lock on, it's her Visor. And I don't see any difference between basic combat visor functions. So locking on is still there.

The bloody outside battle sprite of the tank has a gun that is about the size of Salsa...and the size of the blast hardly matters...please look up what Shrapnel shells are if you don’t believe me...

So? Cannon size =/= Slug size
'End of the Century Beam'? Lawl, I'm going to name my son after President Obama. Looks like he's a president now, right?

EDIT: Omega Metroid's claw is a game mechanic. His rapid-swipes don't send you hurling back and deal 1 tank of damage regardless of the Suit you have, iirc.

 

[_clinton]

I'd just like to point out that demonstrating personal bias against the character you're arguing against is never really a good thing.

I'd just like to point out that my bias was talked about only because I keep hearing it here...in case you don't get that...

Head-shots in the SP work as well. Besides, it's not the gun that's causing her to lock on, it's her Visor. And I don't see any difference between basic combat visor functions. So locking on is still there.

Actually...the lock-on thing with the visor is more of Nintendo putting in an easy mode to the game in case you didn't get that...Metroid Prime Hunters for example doesn't have that function at all...and Metroid Prime 3 more or less is 1/2 and 1/2 on how they work...

So? Cannon size =/= Slug size

Salsa isn't a slug for one thing...2nd off...I like how you didn't seem to look up the thing I told you to...

'End of the Century Beam'? Lawl, I'm going to name my son after President Obama. Looks like he's a president now, right?

I think you missed my point I was trying to make...I don't really think it is an 'End of the Century Beam'

The move is more of making a point through satirical humor...as to what Porky is doing in the game...but considering how Porky is using the same tech. that Giygas had...I still have to question why you think the stuff he is using...isn't powerful...

EDIT: Omega Metroid's claw is a game mechanic. His rapid-swipes don't send you hurling back and deal 1 tank of damage regardless of the Suit you have, iirc.

Have you played Metroid Fusion...just wondering...because it is hardly regardless of the suit you are wearing that depends on Samus' damage from that attack...

Before she gets the SA-X suit...she was going to be ****ed pretty fast...that is all...so it's more of a story mech. if anything...but in this case it makes sense (because there are several quotes that show up saying that Samus' defenses to normal things took a huge blow from getting the fusion suit)

 

[Lord Viper]

Yeah, Bowser's inhaling strength is definitely better... He's also bigger than Kirby, so his views of "small and big" are wayyy different than Kirby's.

☆ AH-HA HA HA HA HA!!!! ☆

☆ Someone needs to know the size of the Flame Lion from Kirby Adventure/Nightmare in Dreamland after he beats it, or even the anime size of his inhale. =3 ☆

 

[missingnomaster]

☆ AH-HA HA HA HA HA!!!! ☆

☆ Someone needs to know the size of the Flame Lion from Kirby Adventure/Nightmare in Dreamland after he beats it, or even the anime size of his inhale. =3 ☆

Could you elaborate on the Flame Lion? I don't recall it being that huge and I don't really want to play through Kirby's Advanture to find it.

EDIT: Saw a video of it. That's really not all that impressive compared to Bowser.

And we aren't using anime. That's for sure.

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ But he's like a tornado with his Inhale on the anime. )= ☆

☆ I already know the rules, lol, and I got the name mixed up, it's called Fire Lion. XD ☆

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AQAuVKbodc

☆ He looked too plain on the NES version, the Fire Lion is also in Kirby Super Star Ultra on Revenge of the King. ☆

 

[_clinton]

☆ He looked too plain on the NES version, the Fire Lion is also in Kirby Super Star Ultra on Revenge of the King. ☆

But but...He is such a cute kitty in the NES version!

See?

 

[Kewkky]

The bloody outside battle sprite of the tank has a gun that is about the size of Salsa...and the size of the blast hardly matters...please look up what Shrapnel shells are if you don’t believe me...

There are no shrapnel shells in the game, unless you prove that there are.

It's a OHKO headshot vs. a bunch of characters that have 199 health for multi-mode (btw...I hardly consider multi-mode to be as canon as the one player event that happens in that game…god…the sniper rifle in good hands always wins in multi 1st person shooters in case you don’t get that)

I thought health points/bars/whatever was all game mechanics.

The point you made with #1 is you again assuming that Ness is like level 1 in his power for the full game...fun fact...he gets stronger...

Nope, I'm saying that Buzz, while lv?? (clearly a higher level due to the damage output) still got killed by a simple swat, whereas he could easily take lots of PSI hits due to his HP level compared to Ness's. So, what does this say? Either some PSI are weak, or the game is pretty mixed up with what's going on.

#2...the being was a fly phys. just like how Ness is a little kid physically (who is linked to the universe by end game for his power...how about that...how can you not think he isn't using god level power for his PK with that info?)...I've never rebutted that fact at all in case you didn't get that yet...he is just a normal little kid...who becomes sort of what happens in God of War to the main character...

So, shooting Ness should kill him since he is a small kid. Buzz was pretty decent and had a nice level from his HP/Abilities, yet a simple swat killed him. There are BUGS in the game that don't travel through space and time, and put up a bigger fight against baseball bats and the such!

Another thing...is the point you're trying to make in this argument just Ness/Lucas will be getting sneak attacked in this? And that they won't know about their foe? Because it seems to be one of the things you are saying...

No, they won't be getting sneak attacked. Even if Buzz got sneak-attacked by the hand, shouldn't a battle have opened due to the game being turn-based? That means Buzz should've had the time to react to it, unless the hand killed him in one hit (which it did), meaning that Ness/Lucas will die in one hit from a weapon that should kill little boys in one hit.

It's been shown that you can get locked out of certain points in time/space...ever play Mother 1? Did you get what happened in that game to the aliens? Or even get the simple fact at what happened to Porky in Mother 3 and how he ended up at the Nowhere Islands?

Mother 1 doesn't matter since Ness/Lucas are Mother 2/3. And it never explained why Pokey got locked out of time/space travel, so let's leave it like that.

Plus...the fact that Ness' soul was linked to the universe is another point I'd like to make...maybe it's just the fact that they can't stop him no matter what they do from getting his powers because of "destiny"

Which btw...Destiny is a large topic that is talked about in Mother 2...Giygas clearly tries to stop him btw...you know...having a bunch of things that are locked under his influence absorb the power that is linked to Ness in 8 areas...

Yet, thanks to Ness and his friends, they can't stop Ness. I'm pretty sure that if Ness was alone, he'd get his as kicked (like, at the start of the game. Starman Jr would've done away with Ness if it weren't for Buzz, then the game will end. Hell, even the Sanctuary guardians are too strong for Ness alone to handle. Try beating the game with all your other party members dead all the time, tell me how it goes).

I like how Ness and his team weren't even at low reserves for that point in the fight that you keep talking about...and how you still don't get that Giygas wasn't the "ultimate evil" even after I point out that he was in "pain" for that fight...god...what didn't you get about how it is easier to "heal" than it is to just beat up on something that is in pain?

Then what IS Giygas? A fetus? Elaborate. >_>

I mean...Ness by himself with Jeff just wiped out Giygas' power in moonside...as in they had already dealt with a large amount of what Giygas was before he even fought them...I mean...how can you not get that?

The Mani-Mani statue =/= Giygas.

The only main character that has really been screwed and needed help so many times is for this topic of what we are talking about is Samus herself...I mean...it's like a requiring theme in the Metroid games to have her A. Need outside help on the final boss/some point in the game in some way...B. Blow the **** out of something...

Hey, Ness needed Paula's help to defeat Giygas. And Samus is always going at it alone, she can't seriously be considered "the ultimate unstoppable warrior". There should always be some threat to her, otherwise what would her stories be? "Oh, this bounty is a Space Pirate." *lands, shoots, claims bounty*...

God...they are like totally original with these games huh? God...they've had Samus fight herself like 3 times now...in case you don't get that...

That certainly beats Ness' one fight with himself, huh?

I think you missed my point with Porky...I said he was using a machine to help him screw with time...I never said he did it himself...

You said that enemies in Mother 3 could also go around space and time. Guess you were wrong when you said Lucas could defeat people who manipulated space and time to their will, huh?

The Magypsy, Ionia in that game have also shown that he can seal things in time...how about that? I mean...there are even points where Kumatora showed that she could use teleport PSI (or something like that) but it was cut from the game (along with 4 chapters, more than 4 playable characters for whatever reason)

Cut from the game =/= true to their games.

Ah no...the "devil's machine" was the thing that was holding Giygas' power in place...as in not going out of control...

He was so strong, he needed a machine to not destroy his own mind... Ness alone would never had stood a chance. I don't think he really beat space and time manipulators if Giygas overwhelmed him so.

>_>
What happens if you overcome an invincible thing…what did you do it?

You stop it, you don't 'hurt' it.

This is funny…because the shine spark wasn’t even doing that…how about that? You’d think that a full body ram at supersonic speeds directed at the mouth would at least knock the thing back…I mean…a beam weapon does at least…

You're supposed to shoot stuff into its mouth, not ram into it. Hell, I'm sure if you had Screw Attack there, it still would do nothing. Speed Booster damage is greater than a Super Missile hit, yet the super missile knock Crocomire back. Why must this be? Something REEKS of game mechanics.

Right…and still…Peach can’t defend from it…but she can defend from other certain types of obstacles…how about that?

In every single Mario game, those fires are unavoidable traps theat will hurt you no matter what you do to try and evade it (unless you outright go completely invincible with a star, or with Tanooki suit). Maybe invincible was a strong word... Invulnerable sounds better, no?

And what other examples can you come up with? Give me a list, if you can.

I like how you can call it a **** game despite the fact that at least it is more original than 90% of the Mario/Zelda/Metroid games these days…

Fanboy side, eh? It's still a game. And what you said is an opinion.

And…Lucas should be able to use the powers of the earth just like he did in his game…why can’t he again except for the simple fact that you guys don’t want him to?

I gave you a list, and you still don't get the fact that he doesn't fight against anyone with it. We, as Samus users, don't even use her "last moment equipments" to fight in this thread due to them being one-time use, at a single moment in the game. We'd have more of a right to use those, since we actually get to use them in the game and do whatever we want with them.

The Dragon does have a consciousness of its own…how about that…it’s linked to Lucas’ in case you didn’t get that still…I mean…it’s a “reflection” of him…you know seen in it and the dragon is seen in Lucas’ conscious

The dragon’s conscious is Lucas’ in case you need it spelled out…this is why it was important that Lucas would be the one to unlock the power instead of Claus…Itoi in an interview pretty much said that if someone who didn’t have a soul unlocked the power…it would be like dividing by 0! As in…we are all ****ed if that happens!

The conscience thing is an assumption. Where in the game does it say "Lucas, YOU are the Dragon!"? See what I mean by assumptions and deductions?

Still…why is the triforce and it’s parts still allowed in this despite the rules… LttP is pretty clear on how the bloody triangles “know what is going on” in case you don’t get that…

Ganon has the triforce's power at all times, and he uses it to fight against Link. It is a part of Ganondorf. What's different between the Dragon and Ganondorf? Lucas never uses it to fight other people during the game, only to recreate the world. It MAY do whatever desire he has, but hey, so does Bowsers' Star Rod, and no one has used it to wish for anything but invincibility and attacks (which is shown in the first Paper Mario during gameplay).

Lucas’ fights ended at the end of the game before he got the power…but he still got the power…if he doesn’t get the power of the earth…than please tell me how you people think he is being “true” to his game?

He got it, yet never used it in a fight. For purposes of this thread, he never gets to use it in his fights. So far, seems true to his game.

Ah no…PK Love is the representation of Lucas’ link to the dragon…if anything…your comment should read…

“Lucas handled himself very well without the full power of the earth in him woken up”

Assumptions/Speculations/Deductions. The game never says Lucas is the Dragon.

It’s still less than what Phazon is…you know…which is just that it’s Lucas himself pretty much

Phazon in case you haven’t got it yet…is a sentient life form all of it’s own…that eats away at whatever it touches…just like the X from Metroid Fusion

Difference between Phazon and the Dragon? Phazon is the "power of the earth" in Metroid Prime: 3, as well as her ammunition. If you want Phazon gone, we're gonna have to take Lucas' PK stuff away, since they're the Dragons' powers since PK is Lucas' powers, as well as his ammunition.

No not really…considering how the Dragon “becomes” whatever they are in the end…

I thought it called Lucas his master, then fulfilled his desires. :embarrass

Ah no…The dragon becomes Lucas’ power in the end…it would become Claus’ as well in the end…and they would have to fight over it till one of them yielded if they weren’t on equal terms with it…

Assumptions/Speculations/Deduction. Not accepted.

Dude…the power calls Lucas master…how would it stop calling Lucas master? The power is just high level psychic energy…how long do you think it takes Lucas to think is how long it takes the power to act…and yeah it can be influenced by anything besides Lucas…god…all it takes is for someone like Porky to come along and want something…it has to be ok with Lucas 1st…before it gets granted…but that is what could happen…finally…if someone without a soul summons the dragon and it is considered dividing by 0…what do you think will happen? The power of the earth will die…if the user dies…and everything that the power has touched…will go with it…that is what Itoi said you know…

Speculation. What part of the game says that the Dragon isn't a Dragon, but just high-level PK?


Oh, and interviews aren't in the games, so they don't count.

So…how come Lucas can’t use PK Ground then? Huh? How is remaking the Earth how you want…not being able to use PK Ground in some way?

First of all, the battlegrounds in these scenarios are plain: just think of nothingness everywhere, and them walking on nothingness. PK Ground wouldn't work.

Wanna give Samus a portable nuke? Omega Cannon says "hi". I'd like to see the contenders of this thread stand up to portable nukes.

I think you need to check the game script again it seems…
http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/gbadvance/file/914622/42740
Here it is again…

All life and all time will be reborn... Oh yes, that sounds like Lucas will be in control, most definitely. More like... Everything will be restarted.

I never said Lucas has to evade it at such a close distance…I said he could take it because of his psychic powers…so the question I have for you is…Could Samus take it?

Samus would shoot faster than Lucas can put up his shield. And Lucas would still take half the damage, meaning two imperialists would be an OHKO. Samus takes two? Reserve tanks, bam, she's alive and you're dead.

Mother Brain’s hyper beam-leaves Samus crippled with 0 missiles and power bombs…and can’t move after that…so she keeps getting rapped
Omega Metroid’s attack-leaves Samus crippled with 1 HP…and can’t move

Both of those are sure as hell nice examples of showing that Samus was more screwed than Ness was with Giygas…what with how he had 900 some odd HP still and how the prayer stuff did the same things to Giygas has just would have beating him up did in the long run (It’s true…look at how you enter that third part of the fight anyway)

Ness wasn't screwed because he was there with his friends. Take away Ness' friends and leave him alone with giygas, and he's even MORE screwed than Samus, since Giygas dragged them all into his own dimension where nothing could get in or out... Samus had the luxury of remaining somewhere where whoever was going to help her, could help her... Paula used "pray" the same way that Samus got her strengths from the SA-X and the Metroid.

Plus, it's a PERFECT example of us not exaggerating our characters' strengths.

Also…Samus does more than just grunt in Metroid Prime from a large fall…she does take damage from taking that fall…and bottomless pits I don’t care about…because canon wise…she has never fallen in one…the return to the point where she jumped off is just the game’s way of saying…oops…you didn’t really do that…but we hate you anyway so here is an energy damage…

Metroid Prime 2 and 3 fixed that problem by making her take no damage at all when she falls. So, it contradicts the damage she takes in MP1... So, she doesn't take damage now.

Thunder Tower is just one of the falls Lucas takes actually…and I think breaking your fall with just a pile of hay and not having anything else harmed says some things about Lucas…

Would designing a Tempur-Pedic mattress make you feel better? I'll let the developers know next time. Point is, his fall broke. Remember that it's a comedic game, so a pile of hay would've been perfect.

That isn't lava that kills it...or at least isn't the same type of lava that the gravity suit protects from...

Fuel Gel. Meh, whatever, point is that something insanely hot (hotter than lava) was the only thing able to ACTUALLY harm it.

How come you accept this thing again?
http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Miyamoto_Order

God...I'm not saying you should discredit everything...just stuff that clearly isn't 100% true

So Miyamoto was wrong and they could actually prove it. There were no game mechanics that made Miyamoto's order void. Samus is still invincible, only penetrated by things designed to penetrate invincibility (game mechanics).





Took me forever to answer this, geez.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Sorry guys, been real busy lately.

I won't be active for a week or two, so the matches are gonna be longer than usual. No cool pictures & summaries too, lol. Christmas holidays and all.

The new match-up is Mario Vs. Samus.

Btw Dryn, does your mod powress allow you to edit posts?

 

[Kewkky]

Doesn't Samus get to do the same things he did to Luigi? That would mean Samus wins... Unless Mario has some other awesome thing under his sleeve.

 

[PowerBomb]

Stop Watch takes longer than a second to start, right? Speed Booster renders Spamus invincible, Stop Watch is null. She can shoot him then.

Mario-counters, please?

 

[Kewkky]

Stop Watch takes longer than a second to start, right? Speed Booster renders Spamus invincible, Stop Watch is null. She can shoot him then.

Mario-counters, please?

She can go Hyper Mode and shoot Mario, while building up enough speed to get the Speed Booster going, since to be completely fair, she needs to build up speed for the Speed Booster to start.

 

[missingnomaster]

Would Darkburst be enough?

And there's always repeated head shots with the Nova Beam + Super Metroid Plasma Beam.

 

[PowerBomb]

Would Darkburst be enough?

And there's always repeated head shots with the Nova Beam + Super Metroid Plasma Beam.

I doubt Mario's health could take too many shots of multipliers in that way.

 

[IsmaR]

☆ AH-HA HA HA HA HA!!!! ☆

☆ Someone needs to know the size of the Flame Lion from Kirby Adventure/Nightmare in Dreamland after he beats it, or even the anime size of his inhale. =3 ☆

Something 8 inches finds big =/= something 13 ft finds big. Top that off with Bowser inhaling everything in the vicinity(not just one enemy, everything on the screen usually).

Spoiler

Pfft, Phan-Phan > Fire Lions

 

[warpd]

If there was any PSI power that proves that Ness and Lucas don't learn all them it is PSI Starstorm. That PSI seems to taught to a chosen few as well.

The dragon granted the wish in Lucas' heart, after that it really could taken all PSI powers away from humanity when it started everything over, but that is just an assumption.

@ matchup: Mario's invincibility items and time freezing items would give Samus a hard time. She does have the superior long range weaponry (duh).

 

[Crystanium]

Btw Dryn, does your mod powress allow you to edit posts?

Not here. I am back, by the way, but only until January 3, 2010.

She can go Hyper Mode and shoot Mario, while building up enough speed to get the Speed Booster going, since to be completely fair, she needs to build up speed for the Speed Booster to start.

It only takes 1 second to start up.

That's my input for now.

 

[BSP]

Is danger mario legit here? I don't see why it wouldn't, since mario can perfectly do it in-game and it's not cheating or anything.

 

[Crystanium]

Is danger mario legit here? I don't see why it wouldn't, since mario can perfectly do it in-game and it's not cheating or anything.

He would need 5 HP or less, and the matches aren't turn-based, so I really don't see how this would be possible. For example, let's consider the Ice Beam. Mario is frozen, so what is he going to do? (Stupid SA-X uses Ice Beam and then fires a Super Missile at Samus, causing a loss of three Energy Tanks!) Or the Plasma Beam continues to inflict damage, even after the enemy has been attacked. Wave Buster is a continuous stream of electricity, and it will only cease once the enemy is dead, or until Samus decides to stop using it. I am aware of the Last Stand badge, but does that work only once each time for different enemies? An example would be Mario fighting Opponent 1. He is attacked, ends up having 1 HP left. He defeats Opponent 1. Then he fights Opponent 2 and he still survives. Also, how is this not a cheat of some sort? Why 5 HP or lower?

 

[BSP]

He would need 5 HP or less, and the matches aren't turn-based, so I really don't see how this would be possible. For example, let's consider the Ice Beam. Mario is frozen, so what is he going to do? (Stupid SA-X uses Ice Beam and then fires a Super Missile at Samus, causing a loss of three Energy Tanks!) Or the Plasma Beam continues to inflict damage, even after the enemy has been attacked. Wave Buster is a continuous stream of electricity, and it will only cease once the enemy is dead, or until Samus decides to stop using it. I am aware of the Last Stand badge, but does that work only once each time for different enemies? An example would be Mario fighting Opponent 1. He is attacked, ends up having 1 HP left. He defeats Opponent 1. Then he fights Opponent 2 and he still survives. Also, how is this not a cheat of some sort? Why 5 HP or lower?

Danger mario would let him have a perfect defense if he stacks Last Stand badges. They work the whole time you are in danger, which in this case, all the time. If he gets frozen, but has the maximum amount of Last stand on, his damage will be very miniscule (two last stands would lower the damage to a fourth, imagine what 50+ would do. If he gets frozen, it might not hurt him if samus can't harm him. It's not a cheat because you can go to chet rippo in game and raise one stat while lowering another, causing mario to have 5 max hp, and permanent danger. If we stacked about only 4 Last stands, mario takes 1/16 of the damage of an attack. If we stack about 50....he's near invulnerable. Plus, if he loads with power rush too (stackable as well) his attack power can go way up as well.

 

[Crystanium]

Danger mario would let him have a perfect defense if he stacks Last Stand badges. They work the whole time you are in danger, which in this case, all the time. If he gets frozen, but has the maximum amount of Last stand on, his damage will be very miniscule (two last stands would lower the damage to a fourth, imagine what 50+ would do. If he gets frozen, it might not hurt him if samus can't harm him. It's not a cheat because you can go to chet rippo in game and raise one stat while lowering another, causing mario to have 5 max hp, and permanent danger. If we stacked about only 4 Last stands, mario takes 1/16 of the damage of an attack. If we stack about 50....he's near invulnerable. Plus, if he loads with power rush too (stackable as well) his attack power can go way up as well.

Why wasn't this brought up before? Mario is not in a situation to where he can raise certain stats and lower others ones in this match. Why all of a sudden? I would really like to know, because it seems things are being switched up here. If Mario did not use this in his previous matches in this thread, then what is happening now is inconsistent. The inconsistency causes the problem.

 

[justaway12]

Nobody answer my last response, I forgot what it was, how long did it take to active the music box, I belive it was a second, though I haven't play SMB3 for years so my memories fuzzy, and I belive somebody already said Samus needs to run for the speed booster.

Could Mario use items while in Starman in any game?

_Clinton, I can't answer your responce ATM.

@5hp thing: I haven't really read it, but life shrooms revive Mario with 5hp left

 

[BSP]

Why wasn't this brought up before? Mario is not in a situation to where he can raise certain stats and lower others ones in this match. Why all of a sudden? I would really like to know, because it seems things are being switched up here. If Mario did not use this in his previous matches in this thread, then what is happening now is inconsistent. The inconsistency causes the problem.

IDK why it hasn't been brought up, mario has had the ability to do this the entire time...All mario has to do is wear the right badges while at 5 hp, and he becomes a near unstoppable tank. Again, this is not cheating, maybe no one else thought to bring it up? (idk why)

 

[justaway12]

I brought it up, but didn't know the badge so I stopped bringing it up.

Which game was it? Paper Mario?

 

[BSP]

Paper mario and Paper mario 2. Using Last Stands to reduce damage (each last stand will reduce damage by 1/2, and they can be stacked) and power rush to increase attack power (each power rush is +3 attack, and can be stacked), mario gets really strong really fast.

 

[PowerBomb]

Do the badges have any draw-backs/restrictions? Sorry, but I only know about the badges and overalls from Superstar Saga (<3).

And is Mario supremely invincible, or just has an extremely high level of defense?

 

[Crystanium]

I brought it up, but didn't know the badge so I stopped bringing it up.

Which game was it? Paper Mario?

I don't recall it ever being brought up. But that's because I've been away for quite some time, I guess.

 

[justaway12]

It was in the Marth MU, I heard in the Paper Mario social club there was something that made him invincible/really really good, but I really didn't know what it did.

This is the quote from the Paper Mario club.

I know, but really in TTYD, the best strategy was to run Mario with 5 HP, and abuse badges you could get a ton of that were good like Close Call, Power Rush, Defense Plus, basically to the point where Mario was near untouchable and then when he did get hit, it would never hurt him. It kind of ruined some of the fun you got with beating a boss the regular way, but it was just too good to pass up

I'm pretty sure it makes him untouchable.

Lets not forget his super jump, it lasts forever so he would kil her with a jump.

 

[BSP]

Do the badges have any draw-backs/restrictions? Sorry, but I only know about the badges and overalls from Superstar Saga (<3).

And is Mario supremely invincible, or just has an extremely high level of defense?

The badges don't have any negative impact on Mario if that's what you mean. Mario's max BP is 99, so that's one restriction. If he did 99 Last Stands, that's 1/2 to the 99th power, an amazing reduction in damage lol.

It's just an EXTREMELY high level of defense Powerbomb.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ur-SzV7NTM&feature=related

look, DM kills the strongest boss in the game in seconds.

 

[Kewkky]

Hmm, I got some stuff Samus could try...

1) Darkburst: It doesn't kill Mario, it sends him to another dimension.
2) Ice beam. It freezes Mario, making him stay in one place and not able to do anything.
3) Grapple: If Samus manages to grapple Mario in Hypermode, she can overload him with Phazon. That's pretty nasty.
4) MP Plasma Beam: Even if Mario doesn't take any damage, the burning effect should still hurt him since the damage isn't modified by the target's defense.
5) Dark Beam particles: When Samus misses the target, the blast disperses and follows the closest hostile target and freezes it in place for a few seconds.
6) Magmaul: Samus can shoot this anywhere near Mario to burn him, much like the Plasma Beam, which stays active for quite a while.
7) Shock Coil: If Samus uses this near Mario, she can syphon Mario's HP and recover her own. The time it takes her to siphon 5 HP should be less than half a second, since she siphons waaay more than that in a full second.
8) Judicator: Samus can freeze Mario in place with a blast of supercooled wind, then go up to him, grapple, and siphon his HP with MP3's grapple beam upgrade.
9) X-Ray + Nova Beam: It's a known fact that enemies in MP3 that have lots of defense and usually require many hits to kill or some removal of the armor, can be killed in one shot by turning on the X-Ray visor, aiming at the head of the enemy, and shooting a single blast. If you don't aim this way, it takes longer to kill them. This should point out that it penetrates defenses, since it strikes the target's brain.

And, uhh... I dunno what else. Dryn is really the Metroid expet here, I'm just the 2nd guy on the block.

 

[justaway12]

Freezing is a status effect, so is burning, siphon seems like one too and some of his badges that you can stack make shots miss, so X-ray won't work. Really, Mario could just Super Jump, it takes him 1 second, if not less.

 

[BSP]

Hmm, I got some stuff Samus could try...

1) Darkburst: It doesn't kill Mario, it sends him to another dimension.
2) Ice beam. It freezes Mario, making him stay in one place and not able to do anything.
3) Grapple: If Samus manages to grapple Mario in Hypermode, she can overload him with Phazon. That's pretty nasty.
4) MP Plasma Beam: Even if Mario doesn't take any damage, the burning effect should still hurt him since the damage isn't modified by the target's defense.
5) Dark Beam particles: When Samus misses the target, the blast disperses and follows the closest hostile target and freezes it in place for a few seconds.
6) Magmaul: Samus can shoot this anywhere near Mario to burn him, much like the Plasma Beam, which stays active for quite a while.
7) Shock Coil: If Samus uses this near Mario, she can syphon Mario's HP and recover her own. The time it takes her to siphon 5 HP should be less than half a second, since she siphons waaay more than that in a full second.
8) Judicator: Samus can freeze Mario in place with a blast of supercooled wind, then go up to him, grapple, and siphon his HP with MP3's grapple beam upgrade.
9) X-Ray + Nova Beam: It's a known fact that enemies in MP3 that have lots of defense and usually require many hits to kill or some removal of the armor, can be killed in one shot by turning on the X-Ray visor, aiming at the head of the enemy, and shooting a single blast. If you don't aim this way, it takes longer to kill them. This should point out that it penetrates defenses, since it strikes the target's brain.

And, uhh... I dunno what else. Dryn is really the Metroid expet here, I'm just the 2nd guy on the block.

1) IDK what mario would do about the darkburst, but it does move pretty slow. By the time samus charges and actually hits him with it, mario could have already used a stopwatch to freeze her. If mario did yet hit, can he get out?
2)It wouldn't hurt him if he's danger mario, nor anything samus does while he's frozen. Plus, mario can have his Feeling Fine badge, which stops all status effects.
3)That does sound nasty, i dont know hhow mario would handle radioactive material in his body....could a life shroom work?
4)Feeling fine should stop a burn
5) still, he won't really be hurt
6)Feeling Fine should stop the burn
7)Does the shock coil pierce all defenses? Samus would have to get pretty close, and mario still has starmen, stopwatches, etc.
8) Technically, Mario can't be frozen if he has Feeling Fine on.
9) I guess that would be pretty fatal, but mario can still dodge and whatnot. If it hits him, i think he'd be screwed though.

@Justaway

Yeah, you could stack the missing badges, but that would bring luck into these matches, and i thought we should avoid that.