Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

[justaway12]

I still think it's a draw though, his defence is very good, wasn't a sheild done by an item or something like that?

 

[Rkey]

So that would mean PSI = Psionics = Done by magic?

= Magic

Well, snap.

We could use with some more proof though, eb wiki doesn't say on any point that psi = magic nor refers to it. :/ And all this time these psionics are something done with mind powers. However... PSI being mind powers doesn't disprove those mind powers originating from magic powers.

I'm however taking this with grain of salt cause of no other references of psi = magic aren't made.

What context is this from?

Do you even have a definition of what PSI is and what Magic is? The only thing now that differs between them is the name if you ask me.

 

[BSP]

So that would mean PSI = Psionics = Done by magic?

= Magic

Well, snap.

We could use with some more proof though, eb wiki doesn't say on any point that psi = magic nor refers to it. :/ And all this time these psionics are something done with mind powers. However... PSI being mind powers doesn't disprove those mind powers originating from magic powers.

I'm however taking this with grain of salt cause of no other references of psi = magic aren't made.

What context is this from?

When you first take control of Lucas, you have to go to club titiboo. On the way there, Lucas sees Ionia in a hot spring and he says something like, "I like to come here after over-using my PSI. Are you here to rest too?" Apparently, Lucas asks, "what's PSI" since Ionia's next statement is, "What? You dont know what PSI is? That's odd, I sense loads of magical power coming from you."

I can't remeber the full convo though >.>

 

[Yink]

I still think it's a draw though, his defence is very good, wasn't a sheild done by an item or something like that?

I still think it's a draw too, and about PSI being magic, it never really does state what it is.

Also GEEZ clinton, what a wall of text!

EDIT: Mariobrouser, that is correct, but she doesn't say the PSI is the magic power...

 

[Kewkky]

I still think it's a draw too, and about PSI being magic, it never really does state what it is.

Also GEEZ clinton, what a wall of text!

EDIT: Mariobrouser, that is correct, but she doesn't say the PSI is the magic power...

It never really does state why Sonic needs rings to maintain his Super form either, yet he and Shadow both say they need rings in the game. As long as it's in the game's script, I can use it as an explanation. It never got disproved in the game either, it stayd as "Magic"... Which the name "Magipsy" is derived from: Magic, and Psi.

I dunno about this, but sounds like PSI could very well be magic in the game.

 

[justaway12]

Umm, who did they say it to anyway? Lucas?

Mute is a status effect, didn't something prevent that?

 

[Kewkky]

Umm, who did they say it to anyway? Lucas?

Clinton brought evidence that Lucas and Ness's powers are one in the same.

See? I read his walls of text! :D ... Sometimes.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

So, are we aiming for a draw here?

 

[Yink]

Then let me say this, you're referring to MOTHER3 to figure this out, it clearly states that that game takes place in a whole different time and place.

Though I suppose that doesn't really matter. In Earthbound you learn about PSI from George's Diary.

EDIT: Yeah Raizen, I'm aiming for a draw.

He has something for status effects too, pendants.

 

[justaway12]

Yeah, I think it's a draw.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Summary then, please. Don't have time to go back and read over 5+ pages.

 

[Yink]

Summary then, please. Don't have time to go back and read over 5+ pages.

Okay. Here goes.

It's a draw because both characters' defense cancel each other out. They could attack but why bother? The other will attack back, they're safer defending and when they do, their defenses will never really be broken. They'll just defend forever.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Vs.

Current Match-Up:
SONIC THE HEDGEHOG Vs. THE PRINCESS OF HYRULE

Sonic Vs. Zelda

Vs.

Round 4, Match 11.

Who will win? YOU decide!

Overall Results

Wins +4:

, ,

Wins +3:

, ,

Wins +2:

:mewtwo:, ,

Wins +1:

, , , ,

Neutral:

, , , , , , , , , ,

Loss -1:

, , ,

Loss -2:

, , , , ichu:, ,

Loss -3:

,

Loss -4:

,

 

[BSP]

Well, I'm not sure what Zelda has, but i got loads for sonic. He has 3 hours as Super/Hyper Sonic, and he doesn't have to use some of that time to destroy a ship this time. He moves at hypersonic speed and can only be blown back a little from attacks, not hurt. He also had teleporting with chaos control, and time stopping since he has 1104 rings. Sonic has a great offense here. If for some reason zelda can out stall SS, he might be in trouble though (no rings left, and warping outside the nuetral field is illegal).

Big question: Can zelda avoid a time stopping Hyper Sonic for 3 hours?

 

[justaway12]

She can teleport, has light arrows and precognition, it's not enough to stop Sonic, her precognition was vague and I doubt she could dodge/teleport something that fast, light arrows won't be quick enough too.

 

[Kewkky]

Yeah, her light arrows don't actually move at the speed of "light", Super/Hyper SOnic could reach her and ram her before she let go of the arrow. He could even swerve around so that Zelda would have trouble landing the arrow. All she can do is keep teleporting away... But considering Sonic's top speeds, he could reach her if she ever stopped.

And even as normal Sonic, he still goes at the speed of sound. He could reach her and spindash/spinjump her for some sexy high-speed damage.

 

[Samochan]

Zelda would get ohkoed by super sonic, she's never shown to be durable. She can hardly react to super sonic speed either. :/ Her precognition is vague crap and I still can't recall where she used teleportation besides in sheik form and anyways, the best she could do is avoid sonic maybe once and any further would be just stalling/futile effort and she'd get hit anyway. Light arrows will miss someone going at super sonic speeds, but she's too slow to even fire one before she's pwned.

Zelda has no chance. >_>

 

[BSP]

This isn't over yet of course, but it seems like if you don't have sufficient defenses to deal with Hyper/Super Sonic, you dont have a chance lol.

 

[WindMajor]

Sonic has this match for sure. The only thing that could stop Sonic is if Zelda actually hits him with a light arrow, but Sonic will be moving too fast.

 

[thesage]

Um, I'd just like to point out something about the Ness vs. Peach matchup....

Bag of Dragonite ignores defence. He has four of them. It's a fire type attack.

Ness has resistance to sleep.

Ness can make Peach cry through pk flash, lowering her defenses a lot...

Pk rockin is a neutral type attack.

There's one thing that makes me think Peach wins though, at the end of Super Princess Peach she is invincible. She gets an item that gives her infinite vibe...

Possible things that Ness could do that haven't been brought up before:

Can Ness teleport his enemies? He's been shown to have the ability to teleport people without psi powers. Does that mean he could force somebody to teleport somewhere and ditch them there?

Edit: for future reference, see this post: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=7792953#post7792953 for his ingame abilities.

 

[Samochan]

This isn't over yet of course, but it seems like if you don't have sufficient defenses to deal with Hyper/Super Sonic, you dont have a chance lol.

Not like she has ever displayed sufficient much anything in terms of being a battler. She can't even shoot her light arrows at her targets properly, but needs link to turn her around, or keep ganondorf from jumping away from their path (when she tries to shoot at his back olol, ganondorf's too good). Link shoots arrows 10x times better. Her defence is nonexistent and for being a telepath, she can only speak through it and cannot even resist mind control. Her sword usage, well she lacks the strenght to use anything but featherweight sword but has otherwise never shown her swordsmanship, but I'd guess a stronger person could beat her easily. Even her precognition skills are very vague and out of her conscious control.

Sonic's got this.

 

[BSP]

Um, I'd just like to point out something about the Ness vs. Peach matchup....

Bag of Dragonite ignores defence. He has four of them. It's a fire type attack.

Ness has resistance to sleep.

Ness can make Peach cry through pk flash, lowering her defenses a lot...

Pk rockin is a neutral type attack.

There's one thing that makes me think Peach wins though, at the end of Super Princess Peach she is invincible. She gets an item that gives her infinite vibe...

Possible things that Ness could do that haven't been brought up before:

Can Ness teleport his enemies? He's been shown to have the ability to teleport people without psi powers. Does that mean he could force somebody to teleport somewhere and ditch them there?

Edit: for future reference, see this post: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=7792953#post7792953 for his ingame abilities.

I think the safety ring from Super mario rpg protects from status effects. Ness has only been shown to be able to teleport himself and his allies (it isn't even an option in battle).

Ok, we've had five people say zelda has no chance.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Yeah, Zelda pretty much "fails" at attacking. New MU soon.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Final match-up for this round.

Vs.

Current Match-Up:
THE ELECTRIC RAT Vs. THE ACE PILOT

Pikachu Vs. Falco

Vs.

Round 4, Match 12.

Who will emerge victorious?

Overall Results

Wins +4:

, ,

Wins +3:

, , ,

Wins +2:

:mewtwo:,

Wins +1:

, , , ,

Neutral:

, , , , , , , , ,

Loss -1:

, , , ,

Loss -2:

, , , , ichu:, ,

Loss -3:

,

Loss -4:

,

 

[justaway12]

Arwing > No arwing?

 

[Samochan]

M'kay, so Pika has 100% accurate thunder due to falco flying around, but that's it, pika can't otherwise touch falco and falco has lasers, smart bombs, barrel roll, shield, lotsa speed... pika's defence on the other hand is weak. :/

 

[BSP]

Falco has his arwing, but can't Pika use thunder and zap it from the sky? If that doesn't work, Falco has machine guns, sniper rifles, homing launcher, gatling gun, Landmaster (volt tackle vs. Landmaster?) He also has barriers for temporary invincibility.

Falco has more offensive power, and pika isn't the one to put out to take hits.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Pikachu may be able to thunder the Arwing once or twice, but that won't be enough. Even if it does collapse, Star Fox characters are shown to survive crashes. Falco could then just use any one of his weapons to attack Pikachu.

 

[PowerBomb]

FYI, Thunder has 70% accuracy even if Falco's in the air. It needs to be raining for Thunder to have 100% accuracy.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Alright then, that was fairly simple.

Loser's Round 4

Vs.

Current Match-Up:
LUCAS Vs. KIRBY

Lucas Vs. Kirby

Vs.

Loser's Round 4, Match 1.

Who will emerge victorious?

 

[Samochan]

FYI, Thunder has 70% accuracy even if Falco's in the air. It needs to be raining for Thunder to have 100% accuracy.

Nah, the move fly makes thunder 100% accurate in the same fashion like dig makes fissure and earthquake 100% accurate. =)

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ Will someone reply to my post about Kirby vs Fox...... ._. ☆

☆ Also how did Kirby get a -1? ☆

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Roy Vs. Kirby: -1 Roy. +1 Kirby.

Sonic Vs. Kirby: -1 Kirby. +1 Sonic.

Kirby Vs. Mario: Draw.

Fox Vs. Kirby: -1 Kirby. +1 Fox.

 

[_clinton]

Super princess peach, you have some vibe meter I believe, out of which Rage makes you invincible and peach goes into a ragestorm at her enemies. =D

Vibes should be fairly useful, she could defend and then use rage vibe to get at Ness.

Again…there is plenty of proof out there showing that the vibes aren’t 100% invincible…plus there are foes out there that don’t take damage from it as well…

But as ness doesn't use magic but PSI which doesn't need words but mind power, mute is ineffective against Ness.

Even if PSI was to be considered magic…sealing PSI wouldn’t work on Ness…lose of concentration is based off a stat in EB…and Ness has the highest stat for that area…you thinking it will work is just more proof that you are thinking Ness will be something like level 30 fighting a level 100 Peach…why again are we forcefully limiting Ness/Lucas?

Reflection =/= real, iirc. It's like a mirror, but mirror image is not real but a reflection. In literature, reflecting something means you think about it, usually in past tense.

A reflection isn’t real…but it is just an image of what you are none the less…unless you want to think that the person staring at you in the mirror isn’t what you look like…which is just silly…

And considering how the game clearly does point out that the power enters your soul…which is only because PK Love is a representation of the Dragon power…I’d say that is more than enough proof that the power belongs to the user…

I maent she defended from sound waves.

Because sound waves are totally psychic powers huh?

What? I'm saying she can defend from status.

And I’m pointing out that there is canon evidence that she would have been ****ed had it not been for some outside help

There really aren't, if she falls off a cliff the parasol can't be put over her.

The fact that her feet are exposed is proof that the parasol isn’t a perfect defense…but considering how Ness has also been shown to break through special defenses pretty easily with just a smash attack…I don’t even know how that is going to protect her…

She has.

What giants has she tamed if you don’t mind my asking?

You mean Count Bleck right? She could always defend from his attacks, I don't get where your going with this, it show that the parasol could withstand a lot.

Yeah…because of game mechs…

Still…Ness has broken through special defenses easily…you know…in case you don’t get it…the parasol is like the “defend” command if anything…

Only Mario characters get Megastars.

Which is why a foe ends up getting one in SPM am I right?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0SMp_K3wE8&feature=related

Yeah, on her feet she gets hurt

Which proves it isn’t 100% perfect…

NO, it's not in RPG, she puts them into a deep sleep, anybody getting hurt by it won't wake up.

Fine…how is it going to work on Ness again?

I've said it before, but this is a draw.

Which is BS…someone who has unlimited power shouldn’t be drawing with someone who doesn’t…

In M3, Ionia says, "I sense loads of magical power coming from you."

Does that change anything?

I already have shown that you can’t seal Ness’ power away easily…and canon wise going on…the fact that there have to be 8/7 separate seals should also be proof that only one trying it isn’t going to work (plus it seems like the seal was allowed in the 1st place…god knows what would have happened had it been done otherwise)

By the way, I've been experimenting with Screw Attack and Speed Booster, and Samus is immune to all damage from all enemies, except the unavoidable (and obviously game mech) touch damage from bosses (game mech because it'd be too easy to just screw attack in place to beat bosses, so to stop that from happening...). What was the argument for Screw Attack not being invincible?

Again...how is supersonic speed something that is invincible?
The definition of supersonic speed itself clashes with what Super Metroid says about it...

If anything...her being invincible is only a game mech. not the other way around...

Because last I checked…Bosses are a bit stronger than normal foes…

And considering how Foes besides Samus have used the screw attack (SA-X) and are beatable...that should be proof that it is just a game mech as well (the invincibility part at least)

Also GEEZ clinton, what a wall of text!

Well...considering how I'm unhappy with like 8+ match-ups (and not all of them are in that wall of text)

That should say that I would have a lot to chat about...

I still want to know how Bowser beats Lucas when Lucas' power is quoted to be unlimited (thus PP is a game mech) and has protected from the end of everything (which should be more than enough proof on it having defense)...AND is considered a god power just like Bowser's robbed one...

And Bowser is a lot easier to separate from his power than what Lucas is (his is just an item you know)

Also...Lucas>Kirby...

PSI has been shown to alter stuff like form...Lucas can just "soften" Kirby's stone/metal (using PK Healing) and bust his head open for getting so many fake wins...

Oh and in regard to Peach's unlimited vibe...that is a reward for clearing the game fully...so tech. it doesn't seem like it is canon IMO because you never truly use it for anything "new"

 

[warpd]

Zelda is kind of a disappointment, the Games should be called the Legend of Ganon not Zelda. He has more face time and impact in the games.

 

[_clinton]

Zelda is kind of a disappointment, the Games should be called the Legend of Ganon not Zelda. He has more face time and impact in the games.

Everyone knows that Link/Zelda are the true villains...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkUtkUjw2b8

 

[Lord Viper]

Roy Vs. Kirby: -1 Roy. +1 Kirby.

Sonic Vs. Kirby: -1 Kirby. +1 Sonic.

Kirby Vs. Mario: Draw.

Fox Vs. Kirby: -1 Kirby. +1 Fox.

☆ Sonic I have no idea what he does. Vs Mario, Kirby has more options of attacking Mario than Mario has options attacking Kirby. Vs Fox, Kirby can just reflect the incoming lasers with Mirror Kirby, he can also reflect the Smart Bomb unless it's the Smart Bomb from Star Fox Command where you have to pick a target on the map, and it instantly explodes. ☆

Also...Lucas>Kirby...

PSI has been shown to alter stuff like form...Lucas can just "soften" Kirby's stone/metal (using PK Healing) and bust his head open for getting so many fake wins...

☆ Unless Lucas can grab Kirby out of Stone, (which is very very very very very heavy), Lucas can't get pass Stone. Let's not forget the other ablity options other than the same thing, I hear too many Stone and Metal. @_@ ☆

 

[warpd]

Kirby uses Pant attack on Lucas! Lucas dies of Lead Poisoning! Poor Lucas is another statistic in the fight against lead-based paints.

 

[_clinton]

Unless Lucas can grab Kirby out of Stone, (which is very very very very very heavy), Lucas can't get pass Stone. Let's not forget the other ablity options other than the same thing, I hear too many Stone and Metal. @_@

I just said he could simply alter the hardness of the stone/metal to the point where Kirby is going to wish he wasn't stone/metal...PSI has been shown to change/alter the shapes of things...Lucas could just use "PK healing" on the stone and bash Kirby's head in...plus...it's not like Kirby is the only stone/metal monster Lucas has fought as well...

Anyway...

Fire, Ice, Plasma skills...Lucas is protected just with the Cloak of Kings/Awesome Cape
Wing, jet, anything physical (which counts for like 90% of kirby's skills really)...Power shield/defense up (Kirby isn't the only one who can alter the hardness of things)

 

[justaway12]

Even if PSI was to be considered magic…sealing PSI wouldn’t work on Ness…lose of concentration is based off a stat in EB…and Ness has the highest stat for that area…you thinking it will work is just more proof that you are thinking Ness will be something like level 30 fighting a level 100 Peach…why again are we forcefully limiting Ness/Lucas?

lvl 1 Peach vs. level 30 Koopa, it will still work.

Because sound waves are totally psychic powers huh?

It shows that she can withstand more than pysical attacks.

And I’m pointing out that there is canon evidence that she would have been ****ed had it not been for some outside help

Kind of like Ness? I'm pretty sure he needed his friends.

The fact that her feet are exposed is proof that the parasol isn’t a perfect defense…but considering how Ness has also been shown to break through special defenses pretty easily with just a smash attack…I don’t even know how that is going to protect her…

it will protect her, Ness needs to hit her that won't work, hitting will send her back slighty, then he somehow needas to attack under her feet.

What giants has she tamed if you don’t mind my asking?

Brobot L-type, a possesed, gaint version of Luigi, besides, size has nothing to do with this, otherwise Kirby will be bottom of the list.

Yeah…because of game mechs…

Your going to say everything Peach has is a game mechnic, aren't you?

Still…Ness has broken through special defenses easily…you know…in case you don’t get it…the parasol is like the “defend” command if anything…

And nobody get past her defence, it works both ways, you know.

Which is why a foe ends up getting one in SPM am I right?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0SMp_K3wE8&feature=related

Oh yeah, forgot about him, the thing is, I've never tried to do that, I don't think anyone has. Why would they? Anyway, I'll check tommorow.

Which proves it isn’t 100% perfect…

Yeah, but he still needs something to hit her up

Fine…how is it going to work on Ness again?

First, I want to apologise, it doesn't seem like a big thing, but after looking at my comment, it looked a bit mean, sorry for that.
Second, what do you mean? Like everyone else.

Which is BS…someone who has unlimited power shouldn’t be drawing with someone who doesn’t…

If he's omnipotent, why has he died?

Oh and in regard to Peach's unlimited vibe...that is a reward for clearing the game fully...so tech. it doesn't seem like it is canon IMO because you never truly use it for anything "new"

we use characters full potential, so she's allowed to have it.