FlashGearz
Smash Apprentice
Sounds like Peach at first, but Samus sounds like she'd work. Falco could work if was wasn't amzing. Yoshi seems right too
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Smash Back Room Weekly Character Discussions! FINAL UPDATES: Ness + Lucas. All done!!
- Thread starter SamuraiPanda
- Start date
Falconv1.0
Smash Master
Peach or Samus is a good bet.
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
But lucario isn't underrated nor is his aerial or close game thought to suck.
Everyone knows he can combo quite easily.
Everyone knows he can combo quite easily.
Jing)
Smash Apprentice
lol i like how nobody here has used samus lol
Mmac
Smash Lord
Funny how you think it's Lucario, but say Samus's range game sucks, when in reality that they practically have the Same Style of Projectile! Also Samus had Missiles that are pretty good at racking up damage to add to her Long Range Game.
Try using him via Random. He sucks to everyone who hasn't looked at the tourney standings yet or hasn't mained him. At first, he's weak, sucky, has no knockback, can't kill until around 160%, and his BAS can't break through anything.
Everyone underestimates Lucario at the start. It's natural.
Also, how many people have been complaining about him? Compare him to Falco, who is doing MUCH worse than him.
Look at the rankings list.
A Rank <Overused>
4 Marth (13 top8, 9 top4, 2 top2, 6 wins) - 316.29375 - 5
5 Mr. Game & Watch (9 top8, 7 top4, 6 top2, 5 wins) - 284.037535 - 8
6 Lucario (8 top8, 4 top4, 3 top2, 5 wins) - 228.66875 - 10
7 ROB (13 top8, 10 top4, 2 top2, 4 wins) - 221.14375 - 4
8 Wario (12 top8, 8 top4, 1 top2, 4 wins) - 211.14375 - 9
9 Falco (10 top8, 5 top4, 3 top2, 2 wins) - 196.46875 - 7
10 Olimar (8 top8, 8 top4, 3 top2, 3 wins) - 185.30625 - 6
Why the hell is everyone complaining about Falco, Wario, ROB, and Olimar, when nobody's complaining about Lucario, even though he's completely trumping them tournament-wise, aside from the obvious lack of users? I have never seen ANYONE complain about Lucario, despite his obvious amazing strengths and lack of true counters (GnW's more like 6-4, but bleh, it's still not a true counter).
He's not seen as HORRIBLE, per say, but he's DEFINITELY underestimated. His short-range game is considered weak at first, especially if you're looking only at his aerials, and Aura Sphere is by far one of the best projectiles in the game. Look at any list of "the best ______" around the boards. You'll never see Lucario on any of them. Look at the topic a few lines below this one. The only people saying "Lucario" are the mains themselves. Hell, many people still think MARTH'S Dair is better than Lucario's.
If you think about it, EVERY character is underestimated. I think the hint implies that the character isn't doing so well at the moment. It says "could be a force to reckon with in the future", Lucario is already a force to reckon with. I don't think it can be him.
BBQ°
Smash Champion
I'm not completely sure on the subject, but does Azen have a lot to do with Lucario's placements?
iEatPikmin
Smash Journeyman
I'm probably very wrong, but I say it's Ness...
manhunter098
Smash Lord
Well I think it fits Lucario pretty well. Anyone that either hasnt played him a moderate amount , seen Azen kick *** with him, or gotten a verbal beatdown from a Lucario main who actually knows what they are talking about pretty much thinks of him as not so good. Part of why he is underestimated is that he still really isnt played by a ton of people, so few people get owned by a Lucario player and realize he is a solid character.
The reference with the KO moves fits as well. Aura Sphere is undoubtedly Lucario's best KO move, but its also a good move to help rack up damage. And while hes got other good KO options, they rely a lot on his aura level to be effective, Aura Sphere is pretty useful at any level of Aura as long as it hasnt gotten any stale move degradation. The aerials fits perfectly as well.
As for the short range game part of the hint. It fits relatively well because on the surface, Lucario's Smash attacks all seem slow and not really very good. His grab range also really isnt anything spectacular.
The reference with the KO moves fits as well. Aura Sphere is undoubtedly Lucario's best KO move, but its also a good move to help rack up damage. And while hes got other good KO options, they rely a lot on his aura level to be effective, Aura Sphere is pretty useful at any level of Aura as long as it hasnt gotten any stale move degradation. The aerials fits perfectly as well.
As for the short range game part of the hint. It fits relatively well because on the surface, Lucario's Smash attacks all seem slow and not really very good. His grab range also really isnt anything spectacular.
Same style of projectile? BS. Lucario's Aura Sphere is bigger, kills better, is more spammable, much easier to hit with, (you can't duck under a wavy projectile), comes out faster, can be charged mid-air, can be charged while moving, the charge hurts people, both the charged and baby Aura Sphere has INSANE priority at higher %, and its speed perfectly catches spotdodgers and rolldodgers. It also can be used as a combo finisher for a KO. (Fair > Aura Sphere is inescapable at certain %s) These are only some of the reasons why it's better than Samus' Crap Shoot. Also, missiles won't do much if they can't HIT. Baby Aura Sphere carves through missiles after around 50%, and before that, ANY disjointed hitbox will slice through them. They're also slow, predictable, and can't be spammed at long range due to how they're so friggen SLOW and have VERY limited homing and fuel.
...Mebbie. But Lucario supposedly does well usually in locals, as well.
CorruptFate
The Corrupted
I think it might be Pikmin. This character is yet another underestimated one, People do seem to underestimate him in tournies as he is not top of the top.
who on the surface seems to be horrible. But in reality, with enough persistance, this character can become a force to reckon with in the future. It takes lots of practice to learn how to use all the Pikmin in the right way because they are all so different in each way. Yet if a player can do it and learn how to use them the right way he is a pain to fight against.
With a strong long range game and an awesome aerial game that can open up plenty of combos if you know how to do it right, this character can keep up with the rest. His ranged game is one of the best in damage, and can be a pain to deal with. His air game is sooo good with good priority. He can combo with his throws and air game. Like I said before he can keep up if you know what you are doing.
This character's short range game, while at first may seem to be the character's weakest attribute, is actually quite strong if you know how to use it well.His short game can be overlooked however it is very nice "if you know how to use it well."
Although, the character struggles to get KOs if you don't keep the few KO attacks fresh. This does seem to be true.
Everything it says talks about how it takes practice learning how everything works, this is true for most but more then most for Olimar.
who on the surface seems to be horrible. But in reality, with enough persistance, this character can become a force to reckon with in the future. It takes lots of practice to learn how to use all the Pikmin in the right way because they are all so different in each way. Yet if a player can do it and learn how to use them the right way he is a pain to fight against.
With a strong long range game and an awesome aerial game that can open up plenty of combos if you know how to do it right, this character can keep up with the rest. His ranged game is one of the best in damage, and can be a pain to deal with. His air game is sooo good with good priority. He can combo with his throws and air game. Like I said before he can keep up if you know what you are doing.
This character's short range game, while at first may seem to be the character's weakest attribute, is actually quite strong if you know how to use it well.His short game can be overlooked however it is very nice "if you know how to use it well."
Although, the character struggles to get KOs if you don't keep the few KO attacks fresh. This does seem to be true.
Everything it says talks about how it takes practice learning how everything works, this is true for most but more then most for Olimar.
manhunter098
Smash Lord
I dont really see Olimar as being that limited on KO's. His aerials are quite strong and his smashes are all pretty effective at killing as well. He doesnt really have to worry too much about stale moves because of a variety of effective killing moves. Though I do have to say he fits the rest of the hint extremely well, he just doesnt seem to fit the KO part very well. Granted he does get some mention because he can always pull a white Pikmin when he needs pretty much any of the other colors, but thats not really too much of an issue since they arent too hard to just send to the end of the line or off the edge.
I think it's Samus. She's been, in the eyes of many, nerfed a LOT. The aerial game the hint talks about is probably referring to the combo ability of u-air and the multiple hit f-air. Short range game for Samus is seen as terrible, since the f-smash got nerfed, but her tilts are quite good. It also mentions the struggle to KO opponents. Samus has very few killstrokes, specifically the d-smash and f-smash. Aside from those, it's pretty much her d-air spike.
Well...Leon Kennedy fits the bill pretty **** well. I go with him.
Edit-...a force to reckon with in the future? Who's to say that 'future' isn't implying later in A game rather then THE game. Maybe...it means that as the game goes on the character gets more threatning? My god...Leon Kennedy does JUST that.
IT IS LEON!
Edit-...a force to reckon with in the future? Who's to say that 'future' isn't implying later in A game rather then THE game. Maybe...it means that as the game goes on the character gets more threatning? My god...Leon Kennedy does JUST that.
IT IS LEON!
Yoshi Kirishima
Smash Lord
Ok guys i dont understand how some of you are saying Lucario and Olimar. When they say underestimated, do you really think they are underestimated? If they say underestimated, then that means more like 'they are standing out a LOT'. So i just mean that you should think more of the characters taht are definitely underestimated.
Ive narrowed my choices and came up with: Yoshi, Shiek, Samus. Lucas + Ness may be underestimated, but they have many KO moves. Even if you don't consider 3 or so KO moves a lot, the thing is, the hint says that they'll need to keep their KO moves 'fresh'. I mean, Ness + Lucas don't need to spam their KO moves to keep them fresh or anything, cus like Forward Smash is needed only for KOing, its not used for things like priority or speed or range or such, so there's no difficulty keeping it 'fresh'. Im thinking Yoshi+Samus more than Shiek though. I hope its Yoshi
. Samus's long range game is good but its not THAT great, cus i mean you can dodge the projectiles and such, and the projectiles dont have insane priority like Snake's Side B Missile. Yoshi + Samus are underestimated. But Yoshi doesn't exactly struggle with KO moves at all, I think this part fits Samus more. Samus's aerial game truly is very good at comboing too.
Ive narrowed my choices and came up with: Yoshi, Shiek, Samus. Lucas + Ness may be underestimated, but they have many KO moves. Even if you don't consider 3 or so KO moves a lot, the thing is, the hint says that they'll need to keep their KO moves 'fresh'. I mean, Ness + Lucas don't need to spam their KO moves to keep them fresh or anything, cus like Forward Smash is needed only for KOing, its not used for things like priority or speed or range or such, so there's no difficulty keeping it 'fresh'. Im thinking Yoshi+Samus more than Shiek though. I hope its Yoshi
. Samus's long range game is good but its not THAT great, cus i mean you can dodge the projectiles and such, and the projectiles dont have insane priority like Snake's Side B Missile. Yoshi + Samus are underestimated. But Yoshi doesn't exactly struggle with KO moves at all, I think this part fits Samus more. Samus's aerial game truly is very good at comboing too.
Mewtario
Smash Ace
Next will probably be Samus
Any way
*bows down to our only outside connection to the sacred backroon*
Any way
*bows down to our only outside connection to the sacred backroon*
No. Just no.
Plus, Everyone knows Leon's good. Update 13 is underestimated by the community.
manhunter098
Smash Lord
Underestimated can mean a lot of things though. It can mean underestimated by well learned players, or underestimated in general. Lucario definitely doesnt fit if its talking about the more knowledgeable players, but I think when it comes to talking about the majority, Lucario still fits the underestimated category nicely.
HAX
If you REALLY had outside connections, you'd KNOW it was Leon cause of my reasoning I posted. I mean it fits him so perfectly. You are a lieing haxor.
WhoseReality?
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2008
- Messages
- 134
i would be shocked if it was olimar. the only way short range would be a problem would be if they meant tilts, which I would seriously doubt. and the hint for olimar will read: virtually every move is a KO move, not ~ can have some trouble KOing
Nitrix
Smash Ace
I think it is Samus. I faced a very good Samus last night via wifi, and my view changed. The missiles were actually decent when each type was used in the proper situation and the air game was actually pretty good. I can also see how the KO's are hard to get. Samus seems pretty likely to me.
I just don't really think it is Lucario. He isn't really underestimated, and I never have had much trouble getting KO's with him.
I just don't really think it is Lucario. He isn't really underestimated, and I never have had much trouble getting KO's with him.
Falconv1.0
Smash Master
I can see how it could be Lucario. I mean, me and quite a few others who I dont want to name due to boredom/confidentiality really expected him to be around low tier, and now that I've tried him out over the span of a few days, he really is bad ***.
And WTF Lucario's projectile>Samus
And WTF Lucario's projectile>Samus
...What? Don't believe me?
Lucario is my second main. Although I am not the best with Lucario, I find it very easy to KO my friends who are extremely good. Double-team, when timed well, can help rack up the damage, and then if you have a high damage percent you can charge a smash attack and make an easy KO.
I think that one of Lucario's few disadvantages is he is slow, but it pays off when you KO an opponent like metaknight with just a couple moves.
I think that one of Lucario's few disadvantages is he is slow, but it pays off when you KO an opponent like metaknight with just a couple moves.
Browny
Smash Hater
Shiek looks most likely... but i dont know why anyone would think her ground game is weak. all her tilts are awesome and has a good rapid jab.
ChronoPenguin
Smash Champion
Where the hell is the yoshi one >.>
Falconv1.0
Smash Master
That was a way of saying What the ****, Lucario's projectile is awesome. I agree with you. XDDDDDDDD
biohazard930
Smash Apprentice
I completely agree except for the above statement. Yoshi's only reliable kill moves are Fsmash, USmash, and Uair. Fair works, but it's for spikes. DownB works, too, but at higher percentages. Uair issometimes a bit difficult to land due to a narrow hitbox. Yoshi's good aerial movement can help remedy that, though.
Maybe I'm just not that great, but many times I find myself looking at my opponent's 150%+.
hippiedude92
Smash Hero
Is it Luigi? He has sorta short range he is sometimes underrated. He is a aerial demon? So why not? I didn't even read the whole description too tired >.>
biohazard930
Smash Apprentice
His long range game isn't spectacular, is it?
infomon
Smash Scientist
Yeah, Lucario's projectile > Samus...... so the tier list is something like:
...
Lucario
...
Lucario's projectile
...
Samus
:D
JJR.O.B.
Smash Ace
i think it is lucas
he has an awesome projectile game and his aerials are pretty sweet too
he has an awesome projectile game and his aerials are pretty sweet too
biohazard930
Smash Apprentice
ducky285
Smash Journeyman
but he doesn't ave issues KOing. Fast and powerful forward smash, b-throw, powerful u-smash and d-smash(despite the slowness and lagginess of the last two). Also, has two spikes and a great edgeguard in PK Thunder.
He's also not been underestimated as he's been touted as a high tier since the game came out. It was only after the chaingrab debacle that he began to lose favor and I doubt a lot of people considered him horrible.
Yoshi Kirishima
Smash Lord
infzy, you forgot to list Samus's projectile I think. I think "Lucario's projectile>Samus" means more like "Lucario's projectile>Samus['s]"
And Luigi's Fire ball may be useful, but it's not 'great', and it doesnt even have to much range. I dont know if his Down B counts as 'long range game' though, but Im pretty sure Side B does.
What i meant by saying 'he doesnt struggle with KO moves' was more like, you usually don't have to worry about preventing your KO moves from getting stale in order to use them at the right time to KO, since you can just use tilts as replacement for your smashes, or use his many comboable attacks to get those KO moves back to 100%. And also i havent tried this really at all, but im pretty sure you can easily combo a KO move after a chain grab (like if you CG snake, when he escapes, he flies into the air the direction Yoshi was looking at, and can't move at all until usually he's near the ground, so I think when he's in the air you can probably fit a Uair or such instead of grabbing Snake again).
And Luigi's Fire ball may be useful, but it's not 'great', and it doesnt even have to much range. I dont know if his Down B counts as 'long range game' though, but Im pretty sure Side B does.
I do have some trouble KOing too. Idk if edguarding counts though as 'KOing'. But also his DR helps him KO even more, since you can use it to slide backwards a little to dodge an attack then slide back in towards the opponent while doing an attack, and also if you time it right you can use the few super armor frames to block an attack and go in for an attack.
What i meant by saying 'he doesnt struggle with KO moves' was more like, you usually don't have to worry about preventing your KO moves from getting stale in order to use them at the right time to KO, since you can just use tilts as replacement for your smashes, or use his many comboable attacks to get those KO moves back to 100%. And also i havent tried this really at all, but im pretty sure you can easily combo a KO move after a chain grab (like if you CG snake, when he escapes, he flies into the air the direction Yoshi was looking at, and can't move at all until usually he's near the ground, so I think when he's in the air you can probably fit a Uair or such instead of grabbing Snake again).
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
how you liking it now
Inuashakent
Smash Apprentice
Luigis smashes are easy to ko with, and he even has fire punch. I would say Yoshi.