Smash Back Room Weekly Character Discussions! FINAL UPDATES: Ness + Lucas. All done!!

[chaos 9]

I have to say it might be Olimar or GW. Olimar because pikmin ordering is a tecnique that is hard to do in the heat of battle and his recovery alone dooms him to mid tier. GW because of the U-air float tecnique and his smashes kill very easily.

 

[WhoseReality?]

chaos 9 - it says the character is doomed to mid tier because of approach game, which Olimar has in abundance. Aerials aren't too bad either. Also, if you've checked any of the results listings, Olimar is clearly above mid tier. I'm not exactly sure what unusual strategy Olimar is capable of either.

 

[BigRick]

I agree with CasMat here, Pika is 2nd best fit to the hint.

 

[cj.Shark]

IC more than pika
Pika is fine. they got pretty good approaches. and he isnt doomed to mid tier theres Anther!

 

[CasMat]

When you can follow your shot and your opponent has to dodge/block/reflect it, guess who has the advantage?

I'm not even gonna try and guess this weeks character, I don't have a clue.

Please, show me a vid where this is effective, I've not seen too many pika vids but as a pika main I have never found this very effective.

For one reflectors definitely get the advantage, because your just going to either get hit or have to avoid your own projectile. Anyone wanting to trade projectiles will likely hit you with theirs and easily shield or avoid your shot. I'm not sure if you have noticed, but pikachu has a lot of lag while shooting his little sparks; it is practically impossible to reach your opponent with anything at the same time as the jolt hits your opponent. Even when you do a full jump and shoot at the same time you are forced to land leaving you very easy to counter. This also ties into pika's somewhat bad air game. The jolt runs along the ground, so the opponent jumps. You're not going to reach them in time to do anything but attack them in the air (I've already described why I think this is a bad idea for a pika) not to mention there are plenty of other ways to avoid it so jumping in isn't a guaranteed way to meet up with your opponent anyways, for the better or worse. The only time you gain an advantage is when an opponent spot dodges the jolt, setting them up for a punishment, but after doing that once it hopefully shouldn't happen much more against a good opponent. The worst part is that even if the jolt hits, the opponent will many times be knocked back, making the hit difficult to follow up.

I'm not arguing that the jolt is a bad move, just that it isn't an approach move. It's better to use defending against an approach, or sometimes even to help edgeguard (but pika has better things to do in that respect).

Edit: vv lol vv

 

[Scrubs]

Its gotta be pikachu, B-Sticking his quick attack is the technique...

 

[Falconv1.0]

Some people here make me wonder if they read the description at all when I see G&W's name along with Olimar and Captain Falcon.

Eh, it could be Sheik seeing how she cant really approach for **** against people like Olimar.

Well, then again, prolly not, cuz I dont think she kills that easily. Zelda on the other hand kills quite well but has her weaknesses.

 

[SuperLink9]

I'm hoping it's [Week 12] Sonic or Captain Falcon, since I'd like to know what their best strengths and weaknesses are. It'd be a **** shame if Sonic was doomed to mid/low tier. I think Sakurai hated him just as much as everyone else (lol...)

But it's not decisive enough I guess.

EDIT: Wow my sig sucks. I'll need to update it...

 

[Shök]

I have to say it might be Olimar or GW. Olimar because pikmin ordering is a tecnique that is hard to do in the heat of battle and his recovery alone dooms him to mid tier. GW because of the U-air float tecnique and his smashes kill very easily.

Lawlz, GW has been done already.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

choknater, you're in the SBR, so why are you here when you can just look at the answer in the SBR? (unless may be if its secret to SBR members except for some or you just feel like guessing first)

 

[1170]

I'm guessing the Ice Climbers.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

I am always surprised at how few people think its Bowser. I'd be surprised if it wasn't him.

 

[Hyrus]

I'm always surprised how they read "lousy approach" and then immediately suggest a character with a spammable projectile, followed by paragraphs of explanation of why their character of choice can't approach. If he said "This is the heaviest character in the game", i'm sure someone would suggest it's fox with the rationale that he falls fast.

 

[kal2000]

Hyrus, if you're referring to ICs, i would argue that while ice blocks are spammable, they do a pathetic amount of damage and don't make for particularly good approaches unless you mix it up with desynchs etc.

Pikachu has a spammable projectile that makes for a good approach though

In general though, a projectile doesn't really have anything to do with your approach per se. Projectiles tend to help you camp (i.e. wolf or falco's blaster and tlink's everything).

And as I stated earlier, my guess is ICs and I really really hope it's them.

 

[infomon]

The stickied IC Introduction thread in the Ice Climbers forum has this to say about the IC's approach:

The Ice Climbers have a very unique style when it comes to approaching. This is because all of their approaches are stoppable. If you know they are grabbing, spotdodge and punish, and everything else can be shielded. All but two attacks can be easily beaten by spacing, but even those two - Squall and Blizzard, can be defeated by an opponent who knows what they are doing. For example, Marth can easily beat them both with F-smash.

and then goes on to describe how desynching can be used to overcome this.

ICs have my vote for 12 :-)

 

[Crank]

IC gets my vote for this one.

 

[DreamScythe]

The hint for #12 screams Ice Climbers, although ICs having ever been percieved to have good aerials at any point in time is news to me. However, I feel like this would be a little to early to make a summary about the ICs because it seems to me that their metagame has not fully developed yet in response to all the new ATs that have been recently discovered, and there is also the good posibility that there is a new AT right around the corner that could greatly change the Ice Climbers game. Still, if hint #12 is IC, then I would definately appreciate discussion about this greatly under appreciated character.

 

[Lotsa_Spaghetti]

The hint for #12 screams Ice Climbers.

I scream you scream we all scream for Ice Climbers!

 

[CasMat]

I'm always surprised how they read "lousy approach" and then immediately suggest a character with a spammable projectile, followed by paragraphs of explanation of why their character of choice can't approach. If he said "This is the heaviest character in the game", i'm sure someone would suggest it's fox with the rationale that he falls fast.

If you're going to mention "they" you should also mention which character "they" are talking about or maybe even simply tell who "they" are.

I'm going to say this right now and this is not in response to you, just in general: I am open to corrections and will not be offended, as long as some form of explanation goes into it. It doesn't have to be a paragraph, but it has to make sense. So if anyone has qualms with my reasoning, please speak up.

I can read the words "pikachu has a spammable projectile" but that says nothing about why. Why then, I ask? Why is pikachu's projectile any more spammable than Ice Climbers? Yes I am talking to you kal2000, but anyone may answer. (Sorry if this is off topic since the spammability of a projectile has little to do with an approach anyway; spamming a projectile is not approaching.)


Big Edit: Also I will admit that it seems like it could be ICs as well but I don't know much about them. Desyncing is unusual, but I always thought of them as having something of an un-outstanding air-game. More like "looks average on paper". I haven't faced many ICs so is desyncing common or uncommon?

How many characters have "unusual techniques" that people find hard to pull off a lot in real battles? What other ATs exist that remain unused by many but are powerful enough to change a characters viability? That's why I consider pika and the ICs, they have extremely great and unique ATs that haven't really been used to their full potential yet. All the other clues could be applied to so many characters that they are almost ignorable, but I argue them just to be sure anyway.

 

[Shök]

Pikachu's is a tiny bit more spammable because it doesn't get weaker the farther it slides and it has shock properties.

I think so at least.

 

[Snail]

I am always surprised at how few people think its Bowser. I'd be surprised if it wasn't him.

It just doesn't really fit though. Doomed to mid tier? :/ Probably lower. And where's the special technique? Infinite jumping? I don't see that helping him rise in the tier list...

 

[TheKneeOfJustice]

Donkey Kong.

 

[ducky285]

The hint says unusual strategy, not technique. Perhaps they're talking about possible ways to use the character to maximize the usefulness of the character as a whole rather than specific moves or ATs.

Just a thought...

 

[The Halloween Captain]

It just doesn't really fit though. Doomed to mid tier? :/ Probably lower. And where's the special technique? Infinite jumping? I don't see that helping him rise in the tier list...

Click here for Bowser's special technique. And it hasn't been proved to be stoppable yet, so long as Bowser has perfect timing. So don't say it can be stopped unless you have a youtube link in which Bowser times his technique perfectly and still fails to regrab the opponent.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Zelda: the unusual strategy is transofrming into Sheik to balance her weaknesses.

 

[Samuelson]

I think it's either zelda or samus because they can both transform

 

[Blue sHell]

Also, there is an unusual strategy that is not often used that can be taken to balance this character's weaknesses, although very few people who use this character use the strategy as it is difficult to do in a real match, and require quite a bit of skill.

You guys think its ICs? You think the chaingrabs are the strategy that is "not often used", "unusual", and "very few people who use this character use the strategy"....... All people who learn ICs learn their chaingrabs almost immediately. If you see a IC that DOESN'T chaingrab then that would be unusual. Also imo saying that they are doomed to mid tier would just be ridiculous considering they would be so severely high on a future tier list if people just used them more because they could potentially kill someone from 0% if they grab you while both ICs are together. On this basis of the unusual strategy imo it also can't be Zelda, Zamus, Shiek, Samus.

It's practically screaming Bowser with his ISJR. For people who roam around all the character boards I think this hint is actually pretty easy.

 

[Snail]

Click here for Bowser's special technique. And it hasn't been proved to be stoppable yet, so long as Bowser has perfect timing. So don't say it can be stopped unless you have a youtube link in which Bowser times his technique perfectly and still fails to regrab the opponent.

It's hardly useful though. If you escape in the air Bowser can "chaingrab" you across the stage but it doesn't do much damage and Bowser's throws aren't that fantastic either. It's not like this is going to help him climb the tier list like the hint implies, imo. :/

 

[Kirby Redux]

Im also looking at Lucas.

 

[Big Red]

Yeah I'm thinkin' Lucas.

No trouble KOing = USmash/FSmash

Advance Tech = don't know much about Lucas, but he has that wacky wavebounce thing, don't know much about its uses, but I'd assume it could be useful in approaching, which I think is a sore spot in Lucas's game.

 

[Snail]

Lucas... interesting o_o Haven't thought of that one yet. I don't know anything about him though...

 

[biohazard930]

You guys think its ICs? You think the chaingrabs are the strategy that is "not often used", "unusual", and "very few people who use this character use the strategy"....... All people who learn ICs learn their chaingrabs almost immediately. If you see a IC that DOESN'T chaingrab then that would be unusual. Also imo saying that they are doomed to mid tier would just be ridiculous considering they would be so severely high on a future tier list if people just used them more because they could potentially kill someone from 0% if they grab you while both ICs are together. On this basis of the unusual strategy imo it also can't be Zelda, Zamus, Shiek, Samus.

It's practically screaming Bowser with his ISJR. For people who roam around all the character boards I think this hint is actually pretty easy.

But can't anyone ISJR? I know that doesn't exclude the hint referring to Bowser, but it makes it more unlikely.

Also, the "special technique" for ICs that is not only unusual but is also hard to pull off effectively in a match is the desync.

And as I've said, putting much weight at all on the tier comment is dumb; only the top and bottom characters should be excluded definitively. Tier discussion isn't entirely clear, especially when that discussion bridges the gap from the back room. Plus, compare your quote with the hint's.

Yours

they would be so severely high on a future tier list if people just used them more

Hint

In the future, this character could very easily rise in the tiers and tournament rankings if more players learn how to use the character well.

 

[philbobjoe]

Ike can't ISJR.

 

[biohazard930]

Ike can't ISJR.

Then 38/39. Hardly damaging to my point.

 

[Ebonyks]

Sounds like Lucas to me. The advanced tech described would be zap jumping

 

[The Halloween Captain]

It's hardly useful though. If you escape in the air Bowser can "chaingrab" you across the stage but it doesn't do much damage and Bowser's throws aren't that fantastic either. It's not like this is going to help him climb the tier list like the hint implies, imo. :/

It can inflict about thirty damage at a time if done properly. Also, The hint implies that the character is doomed to mid-tier, it didn't say the strategy would bring its ranking all that much higher.

 

[LuigiKing]

Is it Luigi is it Luigi?!?!?!?!?!?! I have to know D:

 

[jber4life]

It has to be the Ice Climbers

 

[choknater]

choknater, you're in the SBR, so why are you here when you can just look at the answer in the SBR? (unless may be if its secret to SBR members except for some or you just feel like guessing first)

I'm not in the SBR, though it's probably interesting in there. I was allowed in there before back in Melee, but that was before they wiped a lot of people's access. Too many premies who don't know what they're talking about, and old MBR (used to be called Melee Back Room) members who no longer kept up with the metagame.

The SBR doesn't really hide anything from the smash community anyway. That would be dumb. They just create official stuff, like tier lists, guides, and rulesets. Though, I must say... IvanEva's chart and Ankoku's statistics are much more interesting than arbitrary tier lists, haha. (Everything's still arbitrary... some things are just... less arbitrary. LOL)

The grimer emblem you see represents an old meme in the normal Back Room, not the Smash Back Room.

 

[Snail]

It can inflict about thirty damage at a time if done properly. Also, The hint implies that the character is doomed to mid-tier, it didn't say the strategy would bring its ranking all that much higher.

This character may be doomed to mid tier because despite all the incredible strengths and abilities that this character possesses, the character is lacking any sort of approach game, and the character's air game, which seems great on the surface, is actually severely lacking.

When I hear "Incredible strengths and abilities", Bowser doesn't immediately come to mind. KOing power is one strength, not plural, and he hasn't got much else going for him. Besides, his air game doesn't seem great on the surface... In fact, it seems slow as hell except for the Fair.

Although, if the player can use this character well, these flaws may not actually be too much of a disadvantage because this character can KO without much of a problem. In the future, this character could very easily rise in the tiers and tournament rankings if more players learn how to use the character well.

This is where it says that more popularity could really help him climb the tier list. Now this "chaingrab" where you can hit once or twice, chase, re-grab and repeat for a grand total of 20-30% if you have perfect timing doesn't seem like something that would completely shake the metagame. I haven't seen any Bowsers winning tournaments with it yet... I might be underestimating its use but it seems like a gimmick to me.


Also, there is an unusual strategy that is not often used that can be taken to balance this character's weaknesses, although very few people who use this character use the strategy as it is difficult to do in a real match, and require quite a bit of skill.

Um, how does "chaingrabbing" someone across the stage balance Bowser's slowness? :/ Regrabbing your opponent in the air is hard, I suppose, but once you get the timing down I don't see what's so hard to perform about it.

That's why I don't think it's Bowser. Probably the IC or Lucas ^^