Smash Back Room Weekly Character Discussions! FINAL UPDATES: Ness + Lucas. All done!!

[tEhrXXz0r]

I'm thinking it's Pikachu. Dsmash punishes out of shield and is an excellent way to rack up damage, which fulfills the good close range advantage. He has Thunderjolts for a good camping (and even approaching!) strategy, which has good long range.

And last but not least, usmash > Thunder kills at mid-percents and catches people off-guard, giving him deceptive but relatively non-difficult K.O.ing ability.

 

[:034:]

Update #11: ?????

Strong at close range with a great long range game and a surprisingly decent ability to KO, this character has had a lot of potential since Brawl was first released. But what happened? It seems like this character hasn't been holding up in tournaments, with a few exceptions, despite having only very few faults. Perhaps its because much of this character's strong points are situational, and very match-up dependent. This character has a few strong match-ups (watch out DeDeDe), but has to work hard to keep up with some other characters.

Can you guess who next week's character will be?

Thanks to Overswarm (and Ankoku), as I've borrowed liberally from their posts to make the hint.

Lucas fits. Very few flaws on paper, a suprisingly decent KO ability for being a faster/weaker version of Ness (and for being a little *****), a good long range game with his PK abilities and strong up close. He also has a lot of varying match-ups. Above that, he hasn't been placing in tournaments so well: according to Ankoku's thread he's currently E Rank, one of the lowest.

Otherwise Toon Link, but he doesn't have just a few strong match-ups.

 

[cj.Shark]

im going to guess Pit
because on the dedede thread Undrdog(pit player) said that he had it really easy on dedede because of the arrows. arrows are probably one of the best projectiles as they can be guided and come out extremely fast.
2nd guess zelda

 

[Icy_Eagle]

close range strength immediatly made me think of pit (because he has **** range with his fsmash) and zelda. There are of course others, but those seem to fit the best for that part of the clue.

surprising ko ability? Ok, this doesn't necesarily get rid of zelda, some would say that her ability to KO sub 100% in itself surprising. But it does open it up to many more characters.

Only, it honestly really does get rid of her. Why would they use the phrase "surprisingly decent" about Zelda's KO power when it is outright good. Sure, whether it's surprising or not is debatable but when over half of your moveset can effectively KO and one of your strongest points is good KO power you'd think they'd mention that.

Also, like I said before D's fire isn't that amazing. Sure, it looks good on paper; high dam, controllable, huge hitbox, decent knockback. The problem is that it isn't that hard to dodge at all.

You also fail to mention the character's strong points being situational. Zelda strongest points are good KOing and good defensive moves. That's hardly situational.

 

[ICANTCOUNT123456]

It's Toon Link, im 100% sure of it.

 

[Smocane]

Update #11: ?????

Strong at close range with a great long range game and a surprisingly decent ability to KO, this character has had a lot of potential since Brawl was first released. But what happened? It seems like this character hasn't been holding up in tournaments, with a few exceptions, despite having only very few faults. Perhaps its because much of this character's strong points are situational, and very match-up dependent. This character has a few strong match-ups (watch out DeDeDe), but has to work hard to keep up with some other characters.

Can you guess who next week's character will be?

Thanks to Overswarm (and Ankoku), as I've borrowed liberally from their posts to make the hint.

It's Ness, this one is completely obvious. It could also be Lucas, but it's hard to tell since the two are going to sound really similar when you describe them. I still say it's Ness, though.

 

[Dream Land Works]

I will say Pikachu for now, but my other guesses would be Pokemon Trainer or if this is doing a different Pokemon each time from Pokemon Trainer, then it is Ivysaur.

 

[Evilpenguin]

I'll go with Toon Link also on this one.

Toon link's close range is very good. His aerials and smashes all have reasonable damage and knockback. His long range is also good. He can be one of the best projectile spammers in the business.

He was also originally at the top of almost every tier list when the game first came out. If you think back, it was TL and wolf, not Snake and MK. But, TL has dropped off the radar because he's done horribly in tournaments.

His kill potential is also "surprising" because he is small and fast, especially compared to link, but his Fsmash and Usmash both kill around 100%.

 

[MiraiGen]

Zelda somehow seems to fit. I remember how amazing she was at first but I don't think she's doing all that great.

 

[manhunter098]

Wow, I think this one might be the most vague of all. Well we can start by eliminating EVERY character without a projectile game I think. And also get rid of every character that has issues KOing their opponents. Also the word surprisingly would lead me to think that its going to be a smaller characters, not one that everyone expects to have powerful attacks.


I think that Lucas fits pretty well given the hint, better than Ness in my opinion. The key is surprisingly. While Ness may be small, we have known since Melee what his KO moves are, so there isnt much surprise as they havent really changed too much. Lucas is a new character though...and he has arguably the best f-smash in the game (probably tied with Wolf imo). Its fast as hell, and it wouldnt seem too strong, but it packs a HUGE punch. Lucas' PK Fire is also better than Ness's for a long range projectile, just because its more smammable, as is his PK Thunder, since its much harder to get rid of.


That said Lucas is only my first impression with no real thorough look at all the possibilities.

 

[fkacyan]

Pit much? C'mon folks, don't forget angel boy.

 

[KratosAurion]

This is a difficult hint...

For now I'll have to say Pit but many other characters fit as well... I'll have to think about it

 

[_Phloat_]

I am thinking, from reading this page, that Lucas and Pit seem the most likely. I don't think they would do ness without mentioning either veteranism, or his chaingrabbability.

 

[Nodrak]

I am thinking, from reading this page, that Lucas and Pit seem the most likely. I don't think they would do ness without mentioning either veteranism, or his chaingrabbability.

Lucas is chaingrabbable too, which may be the 'matchup' reference

 

[Mr.Victory07]

^Lucas isnt infinited^

I think its Toon Link, since he has such a strong projectile and close up game, but is doing really bad in tourneys

 

[Nodrak]

Lucas isn't infinite-grabbed by Marth?

 

[FEJunkie]

Lucas isn't infinite-grabbed by Marth?

He can only do it to about 30% or so, and then he can....I believe jab combo out of it, but I'm not 100% on that.

I don't really think it's either of the mother boys. I wouldn't say Lucas has "surprisingly decent" KO options, as he has good KO options. All three of his smashes kill quite well, especially that Usmash of his. Ness doesn't really fit either because we knew he had good KO potential since Melee.

Neither of the boys has a strong long-range game. Their games are mid to close-range based.

 

[Danteh]

It's Pit obviously

 

[ThaRoy]

I am gunna go with Leon Scott Kennedy. He is gunna be my guess until they finally pick him as the week's hint.

 

[cj.Shark]

I'unno. I've never not three stocked a Dedede. Characters with decent projectiles seem to have a relatively easy time against the big lug.
.

that was by a pit player in the same backroom discussion.
the hint implies that dedede has a tough time againt this character

i did my research and my best guess would be Pit

 

[Trillion]

Its Samus. Strong projectiles, strong dsmash and fsmash, decent tilts, great aerials, but very situational moves.

 

[PraKirJaq]

My first instinct was that it's Toon Link.

I'm also thinking Lucas or Pit. But as of now, I'm putting my money T. Link.

Though it would better for me to see what they put about Lucas =]

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Hmm... Here's my list of considered characters: Luigi, Diddy Kong, Ness, Lucas, Wolf, Falco.
Well, I guess Luigi's projectile isn't so good, Diddy Kong's idk, Ness and Lucas have good projectiles, Wolf and Falco are OK I guess...
So now it's Diddy, Ness, Lucas, Wolf, Falco. Of them, which is 'watch out, DDD' material... As I play DDD a lot, I have to say that Diddy Kong is very annoying with his bannas. Wolf and Falco aren't too anoying, so I'll take them out of the picture. Ness and Lucas's thunder can be very annoying when they juggle you with it.
So what's left is Ness, Lucas, and Diddy. Although Wolf, Diddy, and Luigi had a lot of potential when Brawl came out, I'm gonna still take Wolf and Luigi out since they don't really give hard times to DDD and don't have such good LONG range projectiles.
Looking at how the post said something like: This hint was influenced by looking at htese sources... On the character match up chart, it says Diddy, Ness and Lucas have advantages against DDD. On Ankoku's character rankings list, Lucas, Ness, and Diddy seem to be doing pretty bad. So, I'd say that they all fit the description. I think these 3 chars had a lot of potential since the beginning... I can't decide which of them it is.

Diddy, I think, seemed to have the most potential since the start. But I don't know much about his projectile game. Diddy doesn't have 'a suprisingly good ability to KO', although he is strong for a fast character. Ness and Lucas's smash attacks, like the bat, surprise me quite a lot when i see how powerful they are. Lucas's up smash scares me. Diddy's game can be 'situational', since his bananas could be 'situational', since it depends where he puts the bananas. So I guess it's either Lucas or Diddy. Lucas can be chaingrabbed (i think, idk if he falls), but i know he can be infinite chaingrabbed by Marth, so that could be part of the 'situational' thing. I guess I'll have to say Lucas, just cus his long projectile game is better than Diddy Kong's. Diddy, although his bananas are annoying for my DDD, I think fighting him is pretty easy since his attacks have short enough range that DDD can ftilt, or grab, etc. him.

So my final answer I guess, is Lucas, until further notice

edit: and oh, even more now i think it's not diddy, cus im pretty sure DDD can use his waddle Ds to block his peanut gun thing.

 

[jyuuberu]

The fact that Diddy has already been mentioned before might also help your guess.

 

[Sakki]

Pit or ToonLink

I feel like Pit showed the most potential just because EVERYONE was maining him when brawl first came out due to his arrows.

My second guess would be toonlink simply because he was also a pretty popular character as well and a lot of people liked him because of his bair combos and good speed.

 

[DanGR]

If it's olimar, I'm gonna cry. He's not given enough credit and has decent tourney placings.

 

[biohazard930]

The thing I have against it being Zamus is that her game close up isn't all that great... her utilt and dtilt are great, but her ftilt is average, her jab is terrible, and nothing else is really a shortrange attack.

Also, Zelda's KO potential is not surprising at all, and Pikachu has been doing quite well in tourneys (up until the last couple weeks)

What did you have against Pit?

Now I've looked more closely over Ankoku's info. The current data is only for summer. Overall, Pikachu has been doing well, so that just might drop him out of my list.

Honesly, I only excluded him for his "neutral" spot with DDD on the chart. It's given that the chart is hazy, so Pit's not a bad guess...
However, he's ranked around a "B" overall, which isn't all that bad. Iffy, though.

As I said, I'm not familiar with Zamus. I'll take that into consideration.

I've also seen decent info on Lucas, now. His PK Fire spam is like a wall to big characters (like DDD), but Ness's isn't quite the same.

Updated:
1. Toon Link
2. Pit
3. Lucas
4. Zamus

I guess I'm even more into my TL guess, then.

Oh, and are people guessing Ike as a joke? No one is surprised at his power.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

I think they were guessing Ike for the 10th character, which was DDD. And thx jyuuberu, I forgot that he was already shown lol

I wouldn't say that TL or Pit give DDD such a hard time though. But, that's more from just my experience.

 

[Grunt]

IT'S PIKACHU!!!

(it might be though...)

 

[chubb-o-wub]

Hmm... Here's my list of considered characters: Luigi, Diddy Kong, Ness, Lucas, Wolf, Falco.

So my final answer I guess, is Lucas, until further notice

Wolf, Diddy Kong, and Falco were already covered, so why didn't you bother to read the OP, bum?

I seriously think it's Toon Link or Lucario.

Why Toon Link?
- Fsmash, Usmash and Dair can kill quickly
- Dair is situational, and if you miss, you lost a stock
- Three projectiles to work with; the arrow, the boomerang, and the bomb
- can WoP as well, and this is situational
- Was at the top of tier lists near the beginning of Brawl, and now he's not doing as hot.

Why would anyone say Lucario?
- His KO ability changes frequently during the match
- Aura Sphere is a slightly above-average projectile
- His strong points are VERY situational

 

[Http]

Pit's close range game is nothing to write home about though. I'd have to go with Toon Link. They both fit, but Pit is a tad iffy, while Toon Link fits every single aspect of the clue to a tee.

 

[Dark Hart]

I'd have to go with Young Pit. =P

But seriously, those two fit the description so well. I wonder...

 

[Blue sHell]

Toon Link hands down.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Quote from chubb-o-wub
"Wolf, Diddy Kong, and Falco were already covered, so why didn't you bother to read the OP, bum?"

Lol. Can't believe I forgot about them too.

Just as a reminder, if you recent posters have forgotten, that "gives DDD a hard time" is also part of the hint.

 

[Theftz22]

OMG, definitely Diddy. Has great potential but has done poorly at tournaments. Highly situational because of bananas. THIS CLUE SCREAMS DIDDY!!! 100%

 

[Intercept]

Pit.

Also, the last hint was worded kind of strangely. It said Dedede's recovery was gimpable, but the summary simply describes it as punishable.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Strong at close range with a great long range game and a surprisingly decent ability to KO, this character has had a lot of potential since Brawl was first released. But what happened? It seems like this character hasn't been holding up in tournaments, with a few exceptions, despite having only very few faults. Perhaps its because much of this character's strong points are situational, and very match-up dependent. This character has a few strong match-ups (watch out DeDeDe), but has to work hard to keep up with some other characters.

I'm going to guess Lucas (lol like I usually do). His tilts are all made of pure win, and his jab combo is super fast. Long range is self explanatory -- PK Fire, 'nuff said. And one wouldn't expect him to have that much KO potential (I guess?), but all of his smashes, his ftilt, and several of his aerials can KO, some at amazingly low percents (usmash?). But I have yet to hear of Lucases taking the tournament scene by storm, and after the grab-release fiasco, many people swore off using the Mother boys, further limiting his use to counterpicks. But he can walk all over large characters like Dedede given half a chance, but his other matchups require effort on the part of the Lucas user.

 

[Grunt]

Strong at close range with a great long range game

Tink, Pit, Pikachu, Samus, Zelda, Fox, Lucario, IC (Maybe?)

and a surprisingly decent ability to KO,

ROFL pit's gone.

this character has had a lot of potential since Brawl was first released. But what happened?

Fox IC's and Samus were never praised upon release. GONE!

It seems like this character hasn't been holding up in tournaments, with a few exceptions, despite having only very few faults.

Lucario has been doing quite well in tournies. GONE!

Perhaps its because much of this character's strong points are situational, and very match-up dependent.

Pikachu has aCG on some people, and can be out camped/ ranged by a good number of the cast.

This character has a few strong match-ups (watch out DeDeDe), but has to work hard to keep up with some other characters.

Both Tink and Pikachu have good match ups against DDD, but pika fits the last one more. Plus, Tink can spam projectiles and doesnt really need to keep up with people, while pika's jolt is ground based, and cant take the likes of MK.

 

[habaker91]

olimar?
awsome range, short and long, huge potential, and the SBR thread on DeDeDe had multiple posts talking about how much olimar smacks him around....the horrible tether recovery probably wasn't mentioned b/c it would narrow it down too much

 

[Johnthegalactic]

I am guessing from Grunts analysis, TLink, cause Pikas Jolts can be blocked by Waddle Dees, and TLink has great ranged moves and despite being smaller than Link, can KO pretty well!