Smash Back Room Weekly Character Discussions! FINAL UPDATES: Ness + Lucas. All done!!

[joeysmash]

Yoshi. He seems like he COULD have a good areial game but he really doesn't, while maybe i dunno. yet at the same time, if we had as many Yoshi players as MK players i could see our little dino friend be viable for tournaments.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Sounds like Kirby to me.

 

[Flipstar]

Throughout the whole hint it looked to be kirby. Until the last sentence. It looks like the IC's to me now...

 

[Dpete]

My first thought was Kirby, but I can't think of "unusual strategies" that are difficult or hard to do in a match.

It could also be IC's. Everything sounds good, except the part about a seemingly good air game that is not that good.

 

[biohazard930]

Yoshi it is not. He certainly has at least one approach, the short-hopped bair. After much use, I at least do not think his air game is "severely lacking." (I actually think it's pretty decent) And he has a couple of KO moves, but I wouldn't say he's powerful enough to qualify a mention in that area.

That done, I think this is a pretty difficult clue, and I have no real solid answer.
However, I was thinking ICs. I have no extensive experience, so I'm not very confident, but they seem to fit decenlty. They have power and supposedly very difficult chaingrabs, both of which fit well. I don't know much about their approach or air game, though.

 

[Lemon Drop]

My guess shall be Ice Climbers.

 

[Ørion]

Im guessing Ice Climbers as well on this one.

 

[manhunter098]

Im going to say this has me thinking Pikachu (well I guess his tier isnt too bad). Not exactly sure why, but I feel that his aerial game is definitely lacking, though he definitely has solid moves in it, it really is just kind of annoying more than it is effective. He can certainly KO well enough with Thunder and F-Smash, not to mention the occasional up smash as well, all of them are very powerful attacks. when you sweetspot them.

That said I dont really main Pikachu, or play him a lot, but from what I have felt by playing around with him a bit is that his approach isnt really the greatest in the world. Hes got a decent projectile, but it doesnt really contribute to an approach because of the lag from using it, all his ground moves are either slow, or have rather pitiful range, and his aerials arent good approaches as well.

As for that unusual strategy, that would be the quick attack cancel, probably one of the most difficult ATs in terms of pulling out its true potential, and that said it can definitely make up for Pikachu's lack of approach ability.



I can comfortably say that its NOT DK since his approach, though limited in terms of options is definitely at the very least decent, and at best its a good approach. B-air is excellent for spacing and DK's range (and the ability for his f-tilt and B-air to cancel many projectiles) leave him with as I said, at least a decent approach.

I can also say its not Lucario. His approach is also at least decent and at best good. He has good range on his f-air and a nice lingering hitbox on it as well, its fast too. Not to mention his d-air, which though not really used to approach, can be used to stop your approach, so you can work a bit of mindgames into your approach. But pretty much, f-air rocks as an approach move, and some quick tilts help out with that as well. That said his air game kicks ***. I guess you could say he is lacking a spike, but if you are good with Lucario, you know that you would never trade any of your aerials for a spike, they are all just too good.

 

[goldemblem]

This is a tough one, i don't have any idea who might be....Bowser maybe? pikachu?

 

[Morrigan]

You guys should keep in mind that the hint says this character may be doomed to Mid-tier.

 

[Blackbelt]

I say Kirby or Lucas.

 

[hoopspr226]

KO ability and no approach = Zelda

 

[Wildfire393]

My guess is Luigi. Luigi's approach game is terrible, as anything he can do to approach can be counteracted, due to his slow air speed, incredible slippiness on the ground (plus bad dash attack and an upsmash that isn't great on the approach), and lag on his down-B and Side-B. He also has Aerials that seem impressive, but they tend not to mesh as well as you'd hope. After early percentages, most of them have too much knockback to combo out of. He has no problem getting kills however, with Up Smash, Forward Smash, Neutral Air, Down Air, Down Smash, and Up B all effectively functioning as kill moves, and all capable of killing at decent percentages.

Zelda is another possibility, but I think her approach game is much better than Luigi's. Her Dash attack is fairly good, dashing upsmash is good, dash-grab is good, Shorthop Forward Side-B is good

 

[manhunter098]

Well thats really a rather unclear statement, as we dont even truly have a tier list yet.

As far as it goes, listing the characters that have a complicated and difficult technique that can greatly improve their game is probably the best thing to look for right now. Well that and KO ability.

As far as it goes, the only characters I know of with a technique like that are Pikachu, the Ice Climbers, Bowser, Lucas and Ness (more-so Lucas though). Those are the only characters I can think of that have good and rather difficult strategies that require a fair to large amount of technical skill. Other chracters with moves that require technical skill that could improve their game (though not as greatly as those I have mentioned) are Peach, Pit, and maybe Olimar.


That said pretty much every chracter I listed has some good KO moves, some better than others, but none really lacking.


So as far as it goes, I think the list of possible characters is as follows:


Pikachu, Ice Climbers, Bowser, Ness, Lucas, Pit, Peach, Olimar. If you guys want to add some characters to this list of possible characters point out an advanced technique with them that is theirs alone (or perhaps shared by very few characters) that definitely is useful in gameplay, or an advanced mindgame that requires a good degree of technical skill.

 

[ph00tbag]

Sounds like Lucas to me. The bit about techniques and strategies seems indicative.

 

[Speedsk8er]

This character may be doomed to mid tier because despite all the incredible strengths and abilities that this character possesses,

Gay grabs, double stun, double sheild, desynch abilities

the character is lacking any sort of approach game,

Losing wavedashing ***** our approach, which was only good because of the mobility WD gave us

and the character's air game, which seems great on the surface, is actually severely lacking.

On the surface, IC has really good air game. The mallets are disjointed so that gives us high priority. The sad part is, we have very little range so we can be beaten out by attacks that outreach us. Our best aerial is our Uair

Although, if the player can use this character well, these flaws may not actually be too much of a disadvantage because this character can KO without much of a problem.

Grab -> Raperaperaperaperaperape -> Charged Usmash @ 90% -> stock
Sounds like no problem KOing to you, right?


In the future, this character could very easily rise in the tiers and tournament rankings if more players learn how to use the character well. Also, there are some unusual strategies that are not often used can be taken to balance this character's weaknesses, although very few people who use this character use these strategies as they are difficult to do in a real match, and require quite a bit of skill.

Unusual strategies = Constant pressure via desynching? That could definitely counteract our lack of approach because the enemy would be focused on 2 seperate enemies as opposed to 2 enemies moving as one. My IC in Melee focused on desynching rather than grab-******(Although I could do that also.) and I would sometimes catch people off guard when I'd put the pressure on. Still, playing a desynch-heavy IC is demanding, both on your fingers and your mind because one screw-up and Nana or you gets gimped. That's never fun. D:

My comments in bold


Also, As gay as IC was in Melee, we were still only mid tier.

 

[Chum]

although very few people who use this character use these strategies as they are difficult to do in a real match, and require quite a bit of skill.

I'm going to saw Ice Climbers on this one. their grabs aren't really the easiest thing to do.

 

[manhunter098]

But almost everyone does at least TRY to use them with Ice Climbers. Its pretty much any skilled Ice Climber's goal to land a nice 0 > KO grab combo on an opponent as often as possible. Well without ignoring other chances to kill anyways.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Weren't the IC's high tier at the end of 2006?

 

[BigRick]

It's Wario.

 

[manhunter098]

I think so, but Im not positive.

What rarely used strategy does Wario have to improve his game with that requires enough technical skill so that people hardly use it because its too hard?

 

[manhunter098]

double post, my bad.

 

[RizardoLawless]

The Ice Climbers are both the best and hardest the use

 

[comboking]

ike maybe.

 

[Iris]

Why have the past like, 5 hints sounded vaguely like Zelda?

Aside from the "special technique no one uses" Zelda fits the bill really well. As for the last part, maybe SBR is keeping their strategies secret.

 

[manhunter098]

If there was a technical but rarely used AT (or strategy) out there with Zelda we would know about it. Its not the back rooms duty to hide techniques from us, that only slows down the progression of the metagame, which goes against the entire purpose of these forums.

 

[Megavitamins]

Sounds like Wario to me.

 

[ph00tbag]

Speedsk8r's post actually makes me think it could easily be ICs. In fact, it's more likely that it's them than Lucas.

 

[manhunter098]

Well considering Lucas doesnt really have any KO issues since he does have one of the BEST smash attacks in the game, aka "The Stick". Not to mention the massive knockback on his down smash and up smash. Plus the PK Thunder edge guard...he really doesnt have trouble killing.

 

[BigRick]

Wario's air game is overrated.

Approach wise is not that great... his best approaches are either very easy to counter hit or mixup based.

He can KO very easily.

Uncommon techs could be bite mixups, gimp kills, efficient waft usage?

Again, many chars fit the criteria but in my previous post I simply pulled out the first name that came to my mind.

 

[Grunt]

ITS PIKACHU!

i know, he doesn't fit at all, but...

 

[Tenki]

I hope it's not Sonic.

More people starting to pay attention to Sonic = more people starting to main Sonic = more new people making threads claiming to find a tech that's been found months ago for Sonic = Ike boards

-____-

 

[tEhrXXz0r]

It's not Pikachu. Pikachu has a GREAT approach via QAC.

 

[Percon]

Hmm... smells like Ike to me.

Let's take a look at what they DIDN'T mention:

-Projectile/long distance game - so we MIGHT assume there is none

-Recovery - not mentionned, so it's not super gimpable nor is it amazing

So yeah... can KO without a problem? Ike. Decent air game on the surface? Ike. Doomed for mid-tier? Ike.

The only thing I can't piece together is the thing about the "unusual strats"

 

[BigRick]

It's not Pikachu. Pikachu has a GREAT approach via QAC.

No.

QAC is not safe.

 

[BigRick]

The only thing I can't piece together is the thing about the "secret technique"

He never talked about a secret technique, he said unusual strats.

 

[manhunter098]

It's not Pikachu. Pikachu has a GREAT approach via QAC.

Which is what makes him fit actually. Since QAC is quite difficult to use effectively without a little bit of forethought. Its not like a typical approach that you can easily remember with muscle memory, it varies a lot and to keep it an effective means of approach you need to add some variation into it.

 

[Percon]

He never talked about a secret technique, he said unusual strats.

Yeah... but I forgot the exact wording while typing my post so I just called it "secret technique" >_> I'm a bright guy, eh? I should go edit that...

After thinking a bit, it COULD be Kirby. The unusual strategies think could refer to actually using the copy abilities. Although Kirby's got a pretty good air game IMO. I use the little guy from time to time.

 

[Anth0ny]

Sounds like Ike. I'm pretty sure Pikachu isn't doomed to mid-tier. Most (including myself) classify him as high tier.

 

[Percon]

OH YEAH. I'd like to point out that they usually portray characters in a positive light, so "doomed to mid tier" could actually mean "doomed to low tier". Or something.