Smash and Coffee - June 7th Winona Lake, IN

[BIG C]

singles should totally just be called the janky tournament.

 

[Overswarm]

singles should totally just be called the janky tournament.

Hah... you said I wouldn't win

But I did promise I'd get a tripod if I won, so I need to find one now

 

[BIG C]

Hah... you said I wouldn't win

But I did promise I'd get a tripod if I won, so I need to find one now

i thought tink had it and alot of other ppl seemed to as well but his lack of sleep frooed him up according to him he was fittin to fall asleep while watching kishsquared fight the guy he had to fight b4 tink.

 

[Overswarm]

i thought tink had it and alot of other ppl seemed to as well but his lack of sleep frooed him up according to him he was fittin to fall asleep while watching kishsquared fight the guy he had to fight b4 tink.

Noooooooooo Johnz.

Also, Tink dodged his MMs with me and Kel.

AGAIN.

 

[BIG C]

Noooooooooo Johnz.

Also, Tink dodged his MMs with me and Kel.

AGAIN.

haha that'll happen I mean I was there to witness his swurvy *** driving on the way home. he went to bed at like 3 or 4 and had to wake up at 7.

 

[Dastrn]

Just to add, I did enjoy and appreciate Dastrn for hosting this, and this rant is not intended to offend the hosts.

thanks. you're a dude.

^ same .

I like how no one minds having to learn multiple characters to deal with character vs character matchups, but when a stage is involved OHMYGOD CONTREVERSY
HEAVEN FORBID YOU HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY ON A BOAT
BOATS WITH CANNONBALLS YOU CAN SEE COMING LITERALLY A NAUTICAL MILE AWAY AREN'T COMPETITIVE JEEZ GUYS COME ON

/agree

Personally, I disagree with the whole idea that flat = balanced/neutral. Snake is god tier as much because of the neutral stages as he is because of his actual abilities. Imagine a smash in which we don't have any flat stages at all. (knowing sakurai, it's probably going to be the next one). If all we had to play on was hanenbow, 75m, rainbow cruise, and norfair. Would Snake's "natural" abilities make him top tier? not a chance. He'd fall to high.

So isn't this an example of the stages "making" him better? Isn't that what people are arguing against?



Just to add, I did enjoy and appreciate Zjiin and Big C for coming, and this rant is not intended to offend the two sexiest dudes in the midwest.

 

[BIG C]

if there were no flat stages in a smash game I would never even play it. wouldn't even bother to get a burned copy.

also the stages make snake good just because there are stages that make him bad. and idc snake is totally beatable by some characters.

i mean what if there were not any janky levels and all there was, was FD not even the other 8 that I say are tourny levels. Imagine snake with that right there.

EDIT: PS what did that just do to ya? did it blow your mind? cuz it just happened

 

[CaptainAwesome]

Just to add, I did enjoy and appreciate Zjiin and Big C for coming, and this rant is not intended to offend the two sexiest dudes in the midwest.

Zjiin and Big C are the two sexiest dudes in the MW these days? Jesus, I need to get back into the mix...

 

[Dastrn]

Zjiin and Big C are the two sexiest dudes in the MW these days? Jesus, I need to get back into the mix...

Just to add, I did enjoy and appreciate Dastrn for hosting this, and this rant is not intended to offend the hosts.

Just to add, I did enjoy and appreciate Zjiin and Big C for coming, and this rant is not intended to offend the two sexiest dudes in the midwest.

you see what i did there?

If FD was the only stage allowed, Snake would absolutely be the best player in the game.
If FD, BF, and Smashville were the only 3 stages, Snake would be broken. Old Sagat or better.
If it was just BF, forget about it. We're talking Akuma.

Ok, a little exaggerating, but you get the point.

 

[Joshu]

if there were no flat stages in a smash game I would never even play it. wouldn't even bother to get a burned copy.

You don't play Brawl anyway.

 

[BIG C]

You don't play Brawl anyway.

i play friendlies with tink and our other friend like at least twice a week so i definitely qualified for the good enough to win teams tourny. even tho i didn't plan on playin anyway.

 

[Tink]

ou see what i did there?

If FD was the only stage allowed, Snake would absolutely be the best player in the game.
If FD, BF, and Smashville were the only 3 stages, Snake would be broken. Old Sagat or better.
If it was just BF, forget about it. We're talking Akuma.

rofl, someone always has to be the best char in the game. regardless of flat stages, snake is the best. if you only want to put stages on that screw snake and give the top tier metal to MK, then go ahead. that might work <_<.


i felt first hand what a banned stage can be like at this tourny, and there was no excuse why it should be allowed. i just wish we wouldve gotten it recorded for examples of how stupid the match was.

also,

Noooooooooo Johnz.

Also, Tink dodged his MMs with me and Kel.

AGAIN.

rofl, first of all, our MM was suppose to be in tournament when we played, it was your idea. we jus never got to play and i had to leave right after the tourny, sleep johns i guess <_<.
and kel never asked for the MM after doubles, and if he did, my mistake. im not one that goes out looking for MMs, cause i forget. i also didnt have money before doubles was over, since i only brought enough to enter singles.


if your going to post no johns, then dont waste your time, cause i dont really feel like readin it and will most likely just make me not like the person that does. it didnt make any johns for my loses, i wasnt playing the best i couldve, but whatever. shet happens, and i lost.

good stuff to everyone i played, and kish 2 and iggy for beating me. ill get ya next time =).

too bad alot of good matches wernt recorded =(.

 

[Overswarm]

I've accumulated a good amount of spending money from tournaments over the past month... I'm thinking about investing in DVD recorders to take to tournaments so it isn't just me with a camera that has a low battery life.

Anyone know of any good ones I could buy for cheap, and where?

 

[BIG C]

so watching aliens just now i got it. see like me, damian, and the rest of the ppl who want non janky levels are like ripley who wants to go onto the planet and destroy dem aliems(being the janky stages in this case) but the govt. (aka everyone who defended jankiness) wanted to get the aliens to earth to study them and find out if they could help out mankind and be a tool (aka metagame).

I mean all we have to do is look at the results of the govt.'s flaw in this which caused people to die and other horrible things cmon now ppl NO JANKY STAGES.


Disclaimer: Since some of my posts that were jokes have been mistaken as completely serious this is a disclaimer telling you this is mostly a joke the metaphor kind of applies. Other than the fact that janky stages aren't gonna kill anyone just in case someone wouldn't know that.

 

[Kyari]

Next tournament I go to, and all thereafter (including the next one at this venue) I am going to be bringing a VCR and a bunch of tapes. Then I'll go home and record them with my computer

We have the technology!!

 

[Brahma]

First off, thanks to DastrnMarco for hosting. There was great tournout and the tournament was run well. I'm hoping to attend some more of these in the future.

Secondly, GGs to everyone I played. I had a great time, and got to play against a lot of characters I've never seen used well before. I was expecting a lot of Meta/Snake/Falco, but there was a lot of character variety there. Always good to see that. I'd love to get some singles in over Wifi if anyone cares to. Also Swoops and I could use some more teams practice. Just hit me up via PM or on AIM at BrahmaDDT if you want some games.

Joshu: Man, that Dedede is still a tough match for DK, even without the infinite throw. Thanks for going easy on that btw. Always a pleasure playing you. GGs

Tink: That Wario is crazy! Your movement with him is great. You use the best colors too. I wish I had some vids of our match, it was a fun set, both of us charging Fsmash was too good. Hope to play you again sometime.

Bloodhawk: I had no idea Lucario was that good. A lot faster than I thought he was and your aerial approach was nice. Dair shield stabs DK like whoa. GGs.

IXVII (forget what the actual name was): After that first match, I was feeling pretty confident going into our second set, then you pulled Fox on me. DK getting killed at 110% definitely threw my game off. I started messing around with Fox after I got home, and I might start using him as a secondary mysefl. Good games though, hope to see you around.

Squared: GGs in casuals. You work Bowser very well. I want to see more klaw suicides next time though! Sonic seems pretty solid too, at least a good Diddy counter. Always a pleasure to play you, I'm sure I'll see you around.

Kyari: You have a very solid Pikachu. That was my first high-level Pika experience. I think DK can stick with him pretty well once I figure out his game. Hopefully get some more games in with you soon.

Sofa: Nice Pit! You're definitely a marksman with those arrows. Those were some close matches too. Good games.

Zjiin: First off, good games. You are definitely a solid tournament player. I do disagree with you on the tournament stages though.

Like it or not, Brawl is a fairly heavy counterpick game, both in characters and stages. You have to know your character and their strengths/wekanesses. This includes stages and characters.


You say that "neutral" (flat) stages show the greatest amount of player skill. IMO, the ability to think and adapt is part of being a competitive and successful player. If Player A can play well on all stages, and player B can only play well on a small set of stages that he like, how exactly does that make player B better? Yes, stages do give advantages to certain characters. But even "neutral" stages give slight advantages. But character selection also comes with its own set of advantages/disadvantages. The only way you will ever get a truly neutral match is if both characters play the same character on the same stage. Brawl is a game the doesn't just rely on skill with your character. You also have to know your weaknesses to both characters and stages, and usually have a secondary to deal with matches that you think you can't handle. I play DK, I have some pretty bad matchups. Dedede is a counterpick, and should be a free win on DK, but I play him regardless, and I did
pretty well against a few D3s. Swoops plays Ganon, whose low manueverability and poor recovery means that he has problems on a lot of stages, but he accepts this and deals with it.

Just because a player uses "janky" stages that aren't flat, doesn't mean that they don't know their character. It just means that they have more knowledge of stages. In our match, we started off on Smashville, which I would hardly say is neutral for Snake. The flat stage means he can approach and camp well and the moving platform gives him additional options to pressure with mines/c4/grenades on it. Not a free win for Snake, but it's a strong stage for him regardless. I counterpicked Distant Planet. It's a decent stage for DK since it gives him more angles to approach from, and it limits Snake some in his camping, but it's by no means a free win for DK. You can argue that you lost this counterpick because it's a "janky" stage, but it can also be argued that you lost because you didn't have enough knowledge of the stage. Had you played here more, you may have felt more comfortable dealing with it. You then counterpicked to Delfino. Which according to your "neutral" criteria, it seems far from neutral. It is only flat part of the time, with shifting platforms, slopes, walls, and walkoff edges.

Zjiin, I don't mean this to come off sounding snide or arrogant. I respect you as a player and you definitely have to tools to compete and win. But it seems to me that you are more concerned about playing stages that you like and fit your criteria rather than learning how to play other stages. If someone really want to get better at this game, I think it benefits someone to play on as many stages and be put in as many situations as possible, so that if these situations are put into play at a tournament, you know how to deal with them. If you lose on a stage because of something like wall infinites that's one thing, but if you lose on a stage simply because you don't know how to play on it, that's noone's fault but your own.
By limiting yourself to "neutral" stages, you're really just limiting yourself in your experience.

 

[BIG C]

First off, thanks to DastrnMarco for hosting. There was great tournout and the tournament was run well. I'm hoping to attend some more of these in the future.

Secondly, GGs to everyone I played. I had a great time, and got to play against a lot of characters I've never seen used well before. I was expecting a lot of Meta/Snake/Falco, but there was a lot of character variety there. Always good to see that. I'd love to get some singles in over Wifi if anyone cares to. Also Swoops and I could use some more teams practice. Just hit me up via PM or on AIM at BrahmaDDT if you want some games.

Joshu: Man, that Dedede is still a tough match for DK, even without the infinite throw. Thanks for going easy on that btw. Always a pleasure playing you. GGs

Tink: That Wario is crazy! Your movement with him is great. You use the best colors too. I wish I had some vids of our match, it was a fun set, both of us charging Fsmash was too good. Hope to play you again sometime.

Bloodhawk: I had no idea Lucario was that good. A lot faster than I thought he was and your aerial approach was nice. Dair shield stabs DK like whoa. GGs.

IXVII (forget what the actual name was): After that first match, I was feeling pretty confident going into our second set, then you pulled Fox on me. DK getting killed at 110% definitely threw my game off. I started messing around with Fox after I got home, and I might start using him as a secondary mysefl. Good games though, hope to see you around.

Squared: GGs in casuals. You work Bowser very well. I want to see more klaw suicides next time though! Sonic seems pretty solid too, at least a good Diddy counter. Always a pleasure to play you, I'm sure I'll see you around.

Kyari: You have a very solid Pikachu. That was my first high-level Pika experience. I think DK can stick with him pretty well once I figure out his game. Hopefully get some more games in with you soon.

Sofa: Nice Pit! You're definitely a marksman with those arrows. Those were some close matches too. Good games.

Zjiin: First off, good games. You are definitely a solid tournament player. I do disagree with you on the tournament stages though.

Like it or not, Brawl is a fairly heavy counterpick game, both in characters and stages. You have to know your character and their strengths/wekanesses. This includes stages and characters.


You say that "neutral" (flat) stages show the greatest amount of player skill. IMO, the ability to think and adapt is part of being a competitive and successful player. If Player A can play well on all stages, and player B can only play well on a small set of stages that he like, how exactly does that make player B better? Yes, stages do give advantages to certain characters. But even "neutral" stages give slight advantages. But character selection also comes with its own set of advantages/disadvantages. The only way you will ever get a truly neutral match is if both characters play the same character on the same stage. Brawl is a game the doesn't just rely on skill with your character. You also have to know your weaknesses to both characters and stages, and usually have a secondary to deal with matches that you think you can't handle. I play DK, I have some pretty bad matchups. Dedede is a counterpick, and should be a free win on DK, but I play him regardless, and I did
pretty well against a few D3s. Swoops plays Ganon, whose low manueverability and poor recovery means that he has problems on a lot of stages, but he accepts this and deals with it.

Just because a player uses "janky" stages that aren't flat, doesn't mean that they don't know their character. It just means that they have more knowledge of stages. In our match, we started off on Smashville, which I would hardly say is neutral for Snake. The flat stage means he can approach and camp well and the moving platform gives him additional options to pressure with mines/c4/grenades on it. Not a free win for Snake, but it's a strong stage for him regardless. I counterpicked Distant Planet. It's a decent stage for DK since it gives him more angles to approach from, and it limits Snake some in his camping, but it's by no means a free win for DK. You can argue that you lost this counterpick because it's a "janky" stage, but it can also be argued that you lost because you didn't have enough knowledge of the stage. Had you played here more, you may have felt more comfortable dealing with it. You then counterpicked to Delfino. Which according to your "neutral" criteria, it seems far from neutral. It is only flat part of the time, with shifting platforms, slopes, walls, and walkoff edges.

Zjiin, I don't mean this to come off sounding snide or arrogant. I respect you as a player and you definitely have to tools to compete and win. But it seems to me that you are more concerned about playing stages that you like and fit your criteria rather than learning how to play other stages. If someone really want to get better at this game, I think it benefits someone to play on as many stages and be put in as many situations as possible, so that if these situations are put into play at a tournament, you know how to deal with them. If you lose on a stage because of something like wall infinites that's one thing, but if you lose on a stage simply because you don't know how to play on it, that's noone's fault but your own.
By limiting yourself to "neutral" stages, you're really just limiting yourself in your experience.

but i never understood why anyone should be forced to pick up a secondary for a stage why not just have a set of stages that all characters are pretty much on an equal playing field? The flat stages are the closest you are gonna get to a level playing field between characters. Dastrn implied he had stages on because snake is the best, with this we go back to the old melee argument, why should stages be put in place to try to balance the tiers? The truth is they shouldn't because as soon as you put norfair and hanenbow on you put pit and metaknight higher in the list just because they are better at that stage.

Why just pick a stage because you have the advantage on it? What is the point of getting 2 stocked on a neutral, then go to a CP and win, then get taken back to a neutral to get 2 stocked again? Any answer you give to these questions doesn't really make sense to me. I mean I would understand if you win on the neutral barely, then you get taken to a janky stage and lose, then you CP a janky level that makes sense it's what I did to ppl who took me to poke floats in melee.

With that being said I would rather play poke floats every match in a tourny than 3/4 of the levels in Brawl and anyone who knew me in melee and saw me after poke floats they know that, that's a pretty huge deal to me. The truth about it is the stages in Brawl are way more detrimental to characters and matches than they were in melee and that's why we think there should be less stages.

 

[Overswarm]

but i never understood why anyone should be forced to pick up a secondary for a stage why not just have a set of stages that all characters are pretty much on an equal playing field?

That's the thing... there isn't an "equal playing field". You are either giving advantages to some characters, disadvantages to some characters, or a combination of both.

The flat stages are the closest you are gonna get to a level playing field between characters. Dastrn implied he had stages on because snake is the best, with this we go back to the old melee argument, why should stages be put in place to try to balance the tiers? The truth is they shouldn't because as soon as you put norfair and hanenbow on you put pit and metaknight higher in the list just because they are better at that stage.

No, you put characters that have more mobility and air control higher on the tier list. Characters like Snake who rely heavily on their ground game and don't have much mobility suffer greatly.

So why would you only put stages on that benefit Snake?

Why just pick a stage because you have the advantage on it? What is the point of getting 2 stocked on a neutral, then go to a CP and win, then get taken back to a neutral to get 2 stocked again?

Because winning one game is better than losing two without winning one at all.

Winning on your counterpick is extremely important! You should always pick the stage that gives you the greatest advantage. Even Snake does better on some stages than neutrals. Bridge of Eldin is practically the perfect Snake stage, depending on his matchup. He might have trouble agianst Pit or D3, but against most characters he'll do great there.

You guys need to remember that it isn't people that suck that go to "janky" stages. I go to janky stages, and I win on neutrals. I just don't win as convincingly most of the time. Why would you ever want to even the playing field when you have an opportunity to improve your chances of winning?

With that being said I would rather play poke floats every match in a tourny than 3/4 of the levels in Brawl and anyone who knew me in melee and saw me after poke floats they know that, that's a pretty huge deal to me. The truth about it is the stages in Brawl are way more detrimental to characters and matches than they were in melee and that's why we think there should be less stages.

You guys don't even know how to play on these stages.... you've never even attempted to figure them out. You just say "whoa, that's stupid" and say the same things about it you did on release day. The only exception is Luigi's Mansion, which everyone complained about for a long time and then realized "hey, it's not that bad".

If you guys did well on these stages, you wouldn't complain. Just man up! If you main Snake, one of his disadvantages is his inability to play on many of the stages in the game. ROB has very few bad stages, and that is one of his advantages. Just man up

 

[Zjiin]

Like it or not, Brawl is a fairly heavy counterpick game, both in characters and stages. You have to know your character and their strengths/wekanesses. This includes stages and characters.

I really don't feel like explaining any more. It's not that i don't know how to play on those stages, or think the ones the rest of the country seems to agree on as "fair" are for my own benefit (because they're not, and i usually ban BF), but those stages do not belong in tournament play. Midwest is really digging themselves some graves with this tired, old arguement, and it will show when we can't handle aggressive playstyles at huge events. That is all.

 

[BIG C]

That's the thing... there isn't an "equal playing field". You are either giving advantages to some characters, disadvantages to some characters, or a combination of both.



No, you put characters that have more mobility and air control higher on the tier list. Characters like Snake who rely heavily on their ground game and don't have much mobility suffer greatly.

So why would you only put stages on that benefit Snake?



Because winning one game is better than losing two without winning one at all.

Winning on your counterpick is extremely important! You should always pick the stage that gives you the greatest advantage. Even Snake does better on some stages than neutrals. Bridge of Eldin is practically the perfect Snake stage, depending on his matchup. He might have trouble agianst Pit or D3, but against most characters he'll do great there.

You guys need to remember that it isn't people that suck that go to "janky" stages. I go to janky stages, and I win on neutrals. I just don't win as convincingly most of the time. Why would you ever want to even the playing field when you have an opportunity to improve your chances of winning?



You guys don't even know how to play on these stages.... you've never even attempted to figure them out. You just say "whoa, that's stupid" and say the same things about it you did on release day. The only exception is Luigi's Mansion, which everyone complained about for a long time and then realized "hey, it's not that bad".

If you guys did well on these stages, you wouldn't complain. Just man up! If you main Snake, one of his disadvantages is his inability to play on many of the stages in the game. ROB has very few bad stages, and that is one of his advantages. Just man up

we totally played on those stages at the beginning cuz we didnt have all the stages unlocked. I mean I like an even playing field I don't like winning because of a stage if it has to be done I guess go for it but I always found it more important to beat my opponent because I was better than them not because they stage was > for me than them. Like when I CP'd Drephen to PS and won if I would have taken hm to poke floats or something that was bad for sheil and won I wouldn't have felt as good for winning that round. I guess other ppl do.

I just never understood the point of going 2-1 and getting owned in the first and 3rd match. It basically doesn't make sense I would never feel I beat someone because I was better than them on Mute City. Like at the kishes thing me trail and like viperboy went to they had the Ship 11 on we got DK64 first round a bad falco stage I won then he took me somewhere and won and I took him to Mute. It went to last stock where I was at 80 and he had just spawned he got hit for like 60 damage by cars and i killed him with a stitchface cuz of it. It was a very hollow victory indeed.

I guess for you guys any victory is a full victory as to us winning because of a stage is an empty victory.

o and i totally don't think the mansion is a good tourny level, it's just fun and it benefitted me and tinkles so tinkles wanted to go there.

 

[Tink]

rofl, damiens totally right here. were getting into the old MW slump, when the rest of the country has almost silently voted on the general stage list.

i mean, i don't see how people don't look back at history and try to make us a dominate region, but instead people want a stage, that shouldn't effect anything about the match, to win for them. thats just stupid.

oh thats right, im sorry, all the other top fighter games play on levels that can affect the match, oh wait....none do.

 

[Overswarm]

rofl, damiens totally right here. were getting into the old MW slump, when the rest of the country has almost silently voted on the general stage list.

i mean, i don't see how people don't look back at history and try to make us a dominate region, but instead people want a stage, that shouldn't effect anything about the match, to win for them. thats just stupid.

oh thats right, im sorry, all the other top fighter games play on levels that can affect the match, oh wait....none do.

Yeah, it was definitely our stage lists that made the midwest pale in comparison to the East Coast.

Not the fact that the East Coast has a higher population and greater population density that brought about tournaments every weekend that all the best went to. No, that wasn't it at all. Just the stages.

That the East Coast also played on.

>_>

 

[BIG C]

Yeah, it was definitely our stage lists that made the midwest pale in comparison to the East Coast.

Not the fact that the East Coast has a higher population and greater population density that brought about tournaments every weekend that all the best went to. No, that wasn't it at all. Just the stages.

That the East Coast also played on.

>_>

I mean I'm sure he's referring to the beginning of Melee you know when like East Coast made fun of the kishes and lumped all of MW in with them at the BOMB's we went to. Because the only reason they ever beat them was because they took them to poke floats.

 

[Zjiin]

I gotta get the hell out of this region.

 

[Overswarm]

I gotta get the hell out of this region.

Midwest is the deepest region. East Coast is as 2-D as G&W.

 

[BIG C]

I gotta get the hell out of this region.

/agreed .

 

[KishSquared]

I mean I'm sure he's referring to the beginning of Melee you know when like East Coast made fun of the kishes and lumped all of MW in with them at the BOMB's we went to. Because the only reason they ever beat them was because they took them to poke floats.

I love how people just can't get over the fact that we liked RC on random, even when you had the option of banning it. We never had PF on random after FC1.

People are incredibly immature when it comes to stage discussions.

EDIT: I'd like to add that I don't care if we're "made fun of". Middle schoolers make fun of other people. Adults have debates. When I ran a poll to see whether RC should be random or not for FC6, it was literally 50/50 for the people that cared. Most people didn't even care, haha. And yet the anti-RC people were so full of themselves that they were convinced that the rest of the world was backing them up.

Either way, I'm not going to put time or energy into stage debates for Brawl. I'ma sit back and let others decide on stages (I'm speaking for myself, not the rest of the Ship). Stage debates are dumb - no one ever changes their minds. People shout their opinions out and barely read the other side's arguments.

I'm just going to play the game for fun. I'd suggest others do the same.

 

[BIG C]

well you know it doesnt help when the majority does not want it but ppl are bullheaded and dont take it off.

 

[KishSquared]

Taken from my edit, I ran a poll for FC6 to see whether RC should be on random. I still have the results. The poll was 50/50 with a very small % of people voting. Most people didn't care.

If an extreme minority wants a stage removed from random, the TO has the right to ignore them. That's what we did. It may have been a vocal minority, but it was a minority nonetheless.

But again, those against the stage being on random were so "bull-headed" (to borrow Big C's term) that they thought they were the majority, when any neutral party could look at the numbers and see that they were not.

 

[BIG C]

heh well since i don't remember the poll or voting in it I assume many opther ppl don't I remember the discussion. Most people just don't care enough about a game to get involved I could car less about the game I just want tournies to be tournies not hey lets avoid the hazards.

also i dun recall saying anything about RC being on random here anyway. just the FACT that at BOMB 3 EC lumped the MW into one category campy/janky levels and said that was the only way MW could win. because of the ship of fools playstyle and stages/stage selection.

 

[KishSquared]

The poll was held in the thread at the prime of the debate. I have no doubt that there were members of both sides that did not participate, but the fact remains that out of 200+ attendees that there were only 40 or so that cared to voice their opinions.

Also, c'mon Big C, you're the master of johns. You should recognize one when you see it It's impossible to win on "janky" stages alone. For me to win against anyone on EC, I needed to win on either the random stage or their counterpick, which was almost always a neutral. If I couldn't win on a neutral, I couldn't win. If someone on the EC lost to me, they lost on one of their precious neutral stages, and they just don't want to admit to that.

People are so elitist. If a player doesn't play the game "like it should be played", the player is ridiculed. Immaturity and johns apparently run rampant on the EC, and among the Big C crowd. Or at least anyone in the MW that agrees with the EC on those points.

 

[BIG C]

well they never said anything about you guys winning the set they were just talkin about the point I was making that it's pointless to CP and win and get owned in the first match and the last match on neutrals.

 

[Dastrn]

hey guys good tournament, amirite?

 

[Overswarm]

DastrnMarco, stop posting off topic!


Big C, it is pointless to get owned on the first match and the last match and win the second one.

But it is even more pointless to lose on the first and second match.

 

[BIG C]

NO it pointless to win the 2nd match because of a stage other than your skill at the game. get good at the game then try to CP don't CP trying to get good at the game that just doesn't make any sense.

this is why me and tink's friend nate never got good at melee he would always try to rely on a gay stage to win a match and then he'd lose the next match.

 

[Overswarm]

NO it pointless to win the 2nd match because of a stage other than your skill at the game. get good at the game then try to CP don't CP trying to get good at the game that just doesn't make any sense.

this is why me and tink's friend nate never got good at melee he would always try to rely on a gay stage to win a match and then he'd lose the next match.

Getting good at the game = winning.

I don't care how well someone spaces or how fast they push buttons, if I can beat them 100% of the time by doing one move over and over again or take them to a counterpick stage, I'll do it. They can complain on the forums about the stages while I complain about how I have to stop by the bank after work because my wallet is too full of cash.

 

[Zjiin]

But it is even more pointless to lose on the first and second match.

LOL, False. The point of that is that you did something wrong and need to improve your skill or your knowledge of the matchup.

I dont' care if it's a stupid CP or a socially accepted one. If you think only winning on the second match means something significant, then you've failed.

"Oh man, I DESTROYED HIM on Mario Circut. Thank god I didn't get 2-0'd!"

lolololololololololololol.

 

[KishSquared]

But Big C, we aren't arguing that you need to win 2 of the 3 matches. We well recognize that we need to win on neutral stages in order to win. You can never rely on counterpicks alone - you only get one, after all. You gotta use logic here. If your friendly ONLY got good on CP stages, no wonder he never won!

Counterpicks are supposed to be to one's advantage, so don't insult people for using counters to their advantage. You still need to win on a neutral stage if you want to win.

I've beaten many EC players on neutral stages. If they lose on a neutral and counter me to another neutral, that's up to them. Just because I don't return the favor doesn't mean I don't know how to play the game.

 

[Zjiin]

But Big C, we aren't arguing that you need to win 2 of the 3 matches. We well recognize that we need to win on neutral stages in order to win. You can never rely on counterpicks alone - you only get one, after all. You gotta use logic here. If your friendly ONLY got good on CP stages, no wonder he never won!

Counterpicks are supposed to be to one's advantage, so don't insult people for using counters to their advantage. You still need to win on a neutral stage if you want to win.

I've beaten many EC players on neutral stages. If they lose on a neutral and counter me to another neutral, that's up to them. Just because I don't return the favor doesn't mean I don't know how to play the game.

Why are you referring to neutrals as if they were look down upon? I really don't see many debates over what should consititue as neutrals, so i can only assume they are accepted as the most fair and balanced best for the general cast.

Counterpick stages therefore, by definition would be the stages that are less fair and balanced for the general cast. Are you really happy with mainly winning on stages that favor your character? I sure hope not.

 

[BIG C]

im done clearly i dun care what you guys think and you guys don't care that pretty much everyone else in the US thinks those stages are bad enough to not be in tourny play. you know all the big brawl tournies that have like 3 or 4 more stages than what I think should be the tourny stages.