Data "Smash Ain't no Joke" - Little Mac Matchup Discussion Thread

[TheReflexWonder]

Little Mac's Jabs are Active on Frame 1, but Ledge Climb only has two frames of vulnerability. There is a short gap between Jab1 -> Jab1.

 

[Someguyyoulikelydontknow]

I played this one guy who just spammed peaches side special while I was playing Mac. It was annoying. But sure, I could spar with you. I can't play today, and so far, I can't post my 3DS FC on my profile, but if you ask, I'll post it here. Maybe tomorrow we can start a conversation and we could train at our own pace. If you wanted to practice against, say, dodging, or just wanted to go at it in a battle, it's up to you. Also, can I assume we're talking about For Glory rules? I'll warn you though, I've been working on my Mac game.

 

[Reksho]

I'm a Mac main. Add me, NNID: Reksho.

 

[Mysticnamja]

I lost to a yoshi in losers, (who then got eliminated right after). Anyhow, he was cheese city. Camped the edge, threw eggs, then grabbed me with his tongue and pooped me into an egg off stage.

what do i do? or with anybody with tether grab + projectile/zone things

 

[Mrawesome48]

I'm a Mac main. Add me, NNID: Reksho.

I'm adding you now. I can go on tonight around 9:30 pm

I played this one guy who just spammed peaches side special while I was playing Mac. It was annoying. But sure, I could spar with you. I can't play today, and so far, I can't post my 3DS FC on my profile, but if you ask, I'll post it here. Maybe tomorrow we can start a conversation and we could train at our own pace. If you wanted to practice against, say, dodging, or just wanted to go at it in a battle, it's up to you. Also, can I assume we're talking about For Glory rules? I'll warn you though, I've been working on my Mac game.

That's cool I will pm you in a couple of minutes

 

[TheReflexWonder]

D-Tilt him at the edge, use your Jab when he's hanging out near the edge.

Mash out of the Neutral-B grab. Learn how long it takes you to break out so you can be ready to recover afterward.

 

[ColtEastwood]

Does anyone have any tips for match ups against or? My brother uses both and I can only win if he slips and allows me to land a hit.

 

[Reksho]

I'm adding you now. I can go on tonight around 9:30 pm

I'm from Europe so our times probably differ. I'm on GMT+1, what's your timezone?

 

[Reksho]

Does anyone have any tips for match ups against or? My brother uses both and I can only win if he slips and allows me to land a hit.

Try to get back on the ground as fast as possible. ZSS and Sheik are great at racking up damage but don't have reliable finishers on the ground. They will try to get you up in the air and they WILL be succesfull at it. The key is to avoid further punishing in the air and get back down as soon as possible. Mix it up using fastfalls, sudden double jumps or counters. Do not use side B or up B except for recovery off-stage as these are extremely predictable.

As for when you're on the ground, try to limit smash attacks. Mac has great tilts that come out fast. They also have pretty good range so that you're at a safe distance when your attacks are shielded. Remember, Mac is the third fastest in the game so use that speed to hit and run. You can also use jabs here and there as a surprise to do some damage. When they're at about 80%-ish, start using the big guns and try to land a smash attack. Down smash will be your best shot as it's fast and covers a good distance.

 

[Mrawesome48]

I'm from Europe so our times probably differ. I'm on GMT+1, what's your timezone?

Eastern standard time

 

[Alphicans]

Maybe I'll elaborate someday, but my impressions on Mac vs the upper end of the tier list:

Diddy - slight disadvantage to us. Not so bad. 55-45 or 60-40
Sheik - Same as diddy
Sonic - I think we win this 60-40. HOWEVER, getting bthrowd is a real problem, so I could see this viewed as even
Ness - we probably lose this handily
Rosa - One of her worst match-ups imo. Luma doesn't exist in this match-up. It's reasonable to keep her killed the entire set.
Mario - Hard counters us
Lucario - I think we win this pretty solidly
Pikachu - kinda wrecks us. Lots of this comes from the very fact he can crouch and DASH underneath our ftilts and fsmashes, and jab combo doesn't really work against him. It's very hard to hit this guy and he gimps us really hard.
ZSS - I'd say even, maybe slightly in her favor
Villager - we beat solidly
Falcon - beats us solidly
Greninja - counters us (60-40 or 65-35)
Bowser - around even

Now marth/lucina aren't high tier or anything but they definitely hard counter us, probably as bad as mario. LM has a really weird spread of match-ups imo. He can fight the top tiers but he has some awful lower high tier and mid tier match-ups.

 

[KingHerpOfDerp]

I don't think Villager is beaten by Little Mac's too often, at least from what I have seen.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Maybe I'll elaborate someday, but my impressions on Mac vs the upper end of the tier list:

Diddy - slight disadvantage to us. Not so bad. 55-45 or 60-40
Sheik - Same as diddy
Sonic - I think we win this 60-40. HOWEVER, getting bthrowd is a real problem, so I could see this viewed as even
Ness - we probably lose this handily
Rosa - One of her worst match-ups imo. Luma doesn't exist in this match-up. It's reasonable to keep her killed the entire set.
Mario - Hard counters us
Lucario - I think we win this pretty solidly
Pikachu - kinda wrecks us. Lots of this comes from the very fact he can crouch and DASH underneath our ftilts and fsmashes, and jab combo doesn't really work against him. It's very hard to hit this guy and he gimps us really hard.
ZSS - I'd say even, maybe slightly in her favor
Villager - we beat solidly
Falcon - beats us solidly
Greninja - counters us (60-30 or 65-35)
Bowser - around even

Now marth/lucina aren't high tier or anything but they definitely hard counter us, probably as bad as mario. LM has a really weird spread of match-ups imo. He can fight the top tiers but he has some awful lower high tier and mid tier match-ups.

I can vouch for most of these, especially Ness. Those Fairs are like the bane of my existence vs. Ness.
You should also add Dr.Mario to that list with Mario, more or less.

Also, whats the general consensus with Marth/ Lucina? I feel that they counter mac because of their disjoints and what not. And like I said before, Fair is the bane on my existence in this MU.... I'd say something along the lines of 60-40 to 70-30.

 

[Nat Goméz]

I agree with almost all of this, specially Ness. But I don't think that Mario is that hard for Mac, I mean a hard counter? Aside from the obvious more flexible edgeguard that Mario has, he has very little against us aside from that. He can't force an approach if you just decide to play patient against him. Fireballs won't do the trick either since we can jab them, shield them and also dash under them to punish him if he spams

Spoiler

Let's not forget about that...

And if close enough side b will punish him too since we go right over them.

He can't approach from the air because of armour and he can't dash for grabs because any Mac would respond with a Ftilt that out-range/speed this option. Other agressive options can be beaten easily too.

Mac can also mash out of utilt combos with nair

And cape does the exact same work that any aerial or any edgeguard for that matter would do against Mac, just saying.

I've played some good Marios online, and some from the Mario boards. And literally the only thing I couldn't punish well was mindgames, and was because of lag. I don't know if there's something else I'm missing.. but for me is at least 50:50

 

[Reksho]

I actually have little problems playing Ness. When caught in a PK fire, you can just counter to get out. You'll also probably hit Ness as he always tries to grab you while you're on fire. When in the air, it's all about mindgames really. I try to mix up my jumping and fastfalls to be unpredictable and throw a counter here and there in the air. As for his gimps (mainly his fairs), try to approach as low as possible to the stage when recovering. Ness doesn't have that many options when you're so close to the stage wall and you up B your way up. Up B has very high priority.

Ness is pretty gimpable himself too because of his predictable recovery, even with Mac. Just fair him when he starts using his PK thunder and he should be knocked back enough at high percentages (nobody expects a Mac in the air). Don't forget that you can recover using walljumps too.

Pikachu on the other hand is a total disaster to fight against...

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Up-B only has a hitbox on Mac's fist after the first couple frames. Anyone can go around him and hit him more-or-less for free.

If Counter is your main way of dealing with difficult hitboxes, it will be predicted and punished hard by anyone who can see you relying on it.

Mac's F-Air doesn't send Ness far enough to be majorly detrimental to his recovery, and if he starts his Up-B early, the tail will almost always prevent you from hitting him anyway, since Mac's air hitboxes have poor range.

 

[Reksho]

Up-B only has a hitbox on Mac's fist after the first couple frames. Anyone can go around him and hit him more-or-less for free.

If Counter is your main way of dealing with difficult hitboxes, it will be predicted and punished hard by anyone who can see you relying on it.

Mac's F-Air doesn't send Ness far enough to be majorly detrimental to his recovery, and if he starts his Up-B early, the tail will almost always prevent you from hitting him anyway, since Mac's air hitboxes have poor range.

I'm saying to use counter after you get hit by the PK fire (so you're already on fire). PK fire's hits are not continuous as you will bounce around when hit. You can spam counter here until Mac reacts on it. This is pretty hard to punish as Ness really needs the grabs to rack up damage and get Mac off-stage. Of course you can mix it up by not countering sometimes and trying to jump out of it. It does however work on a psychological level as the Ness player will need to stop relying on the PK fire as much to get grabs. This frees up some of your approach options as Mac.

Mac's F-air does gimp Ness at high percentages and when he's at a distance where he really needs the PK thunder to recover. This is often low at the stage or at a horizontal distance that Mac can traverse with a single jump + dash.

 

[Reksho]

Excuse the double post.

 

[Quisciens]

Diddy's got a large advantage where his banana limits approach

 

[Alphicans]

You can just jab bananas. Don't get me wrong, bananas are good, but mac deals with them especially well since he has a frame1 jab, aswell as very punishing instatoss -> followups.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I'm saying to use counter after you get hit by the PK fire (so you're already on fire). PK fire's hits are not continuous as you will bounce around when hit. You can spam counter here until Mac reacts on it. This is pretty hard to punish as Ness really needs the grabs to rack up damage and get Mac off-stage. Of course you can mix it up by not countering sometimes and trying to jump out of it. It does however work on a psychological level as the Ness player will need to stop relying on the PK fire as much to get grabs. This frees up some of your approach options as Mac.

Mac's F-air does gimp Ness at high percentages and when he's at a distance where he really needs the PK thunder to recover. This is often low at the stage or at a horizontal distance that Mac can traverse with a single jump + dash.

If you're spamming Counter when you're in PK Fire, there is nothing stopping Ness from just shielding and punishing your Counter endlag. It's not hard to punish at all. If you "mix it up" by jumping out of it, he can just follow you with shorthop pressure that you really can't deal with reliably. Ness doesn't need a grab to put Mac in a bad position; things like N-Air and F-Air do it just fine.

Any position Mac could F-Air would be met with Ness's own F-Air, which outranges it with no problem before he decides to Up-B.

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

Mac beats Sonic? LOL....maybe kirby but sonic nah. Sonic is faster and just play hit and run. Also Mac's edgegurading game is useless very sonic recovery. Macs will be need to be perfect pivoting like no tomorrow to get their offense started.

Edit:Vs. Diddy. How important do you think gilde tossing will be agaisnt him? I saw a vid showing off how mac can get a ko punch off a glide toss banana.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Mac beats Sonic? LOL....maybe kirby but sonic nah. Sonic is faster and just play hit and run. Also Mac's edgegurading game is useless very sonic recovery. Macs will be need to be perfect pivoting like no tomorrow to get their offense started.

Edit:Vs. Diddy. How important do you think gilde tossing will be agaisnt him? I saw a vid showing off how mac can get a ko punch off a glide toss banana.

Mac can actually beat sonic quite easily.
Mac can jab sonic out of his spin attack and what not. He can also play hit and run just like sonic can, which is hella more effective than sonic simply for his sheer power, quick strikes and Super Armour... its also possible to edge guard against sonic.... its hard too, but certainly not useless at all.

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

Mac can actually beat sonic quite easily.
Mac can jab sonic out of his spin attack and what not. He can also play hit and run just like sonic can, which is hella more effective than sonic simply for his sheer power, quick strikes and Super Armour... its also possible to edge guard against sonic.... its hard too, but certainly not useless at all.

Okay if you so. Also isn't his jab DIable?Also if it's hard...that means it's kind of not gonna work at a high level. Sonics don't shoot for the edge when recovering. Also hit and run favors Sonic because he is faster than Mac. Also you're annoying the air game Sonic has. Sonics don't stay on the ground.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Okay if you so. Also isn't his jab DIable?Also if it's hard...that means it's kind of not gonna work at a high level. Sonics don't shoot for the edge when recovering. Also hit and run favors Sonic because he is faster than Mac. Also you're annoying the air game Sonic has. Sonics don't stay on the ground.

It is Diable, but only if you use it for so long. It CAN work at high level, its just harder than other characters to make it work. Also, when you say shoot, do you mean like Side B to the edge? Also, the last bit is somewhat true... I've seen plenty of sonics where they don't jump in the air that often

 

[Slimeproductions]

Okay so I just found the best amount of health your enemy must have for a perfect KO so here it is
Health:20-999 (damage cap is 999 don't you know)
So I recommend doing a smash attack then when you have the chance KAPOW!!! A KO on your enemy

Things to know:
Giant fighters are easier to hit=
Mr.Game and Watch is easier to make fly around do to the fact he is 2D
To fill up Little Mac's KO meter faster is to do a lot of moves

 

[Venks]

Maybe I'll elaborate someday, but my impressions on Mac vs the upper end of the tier list:

Diddy - slight disadvantage to us. Not so bad. 55-45 or 60-40
Sheik - Same as diddy
Sonic - I think we win this 60-40. HOWEVER, getting bthrowd is a real problem, so I could see this viewed as even
Ness - we probably lose this handily
Rosa - One of her worst match-ups imo. Luma doesn't exist in this match-up. It's reasonable to keep her killed the entire set.
Mario - Hard counters us
Lucario - I think we win this pretty solidly
Pikachu - kinda wrecks us. Lots of this comes from the very fact he can crouch and DASH underneath our ftilts and fsmashes, and jab combo doesn't really work against him. It's very hard to hit this guy and he gimps us really hard.
ZSS - I'd say even, maybe slightly in her favor
Villager - we beat solidly
Falcon - beats us solidly
Greninja - counters us (60-40 or 65-35)
Bowser - around even

Now marth/lucina aren't high tier or anything but they definitely hard counter us, probably as bad as mario. LM has a really weird spread of match-ups imo. He can fight the top tiers but he has some awful lower high tier and mid tier match-ups.

I agree Diddy is only a slight disadvantage. We can jab out the bananas or use forward smash to go through them without slipping. Really makes fighting Diddy interesting. But Diddy's incredibly low landing lag on his amazing aerials makes him really tricky to fight. Not to mention down throw -> up air.

Sheik is much worse than Diddy in my opinion. She can easily get off two fAirs off a throw or a fAir into bouncing fish. It doesn't take much to take us off the stage and then she can easily thwart Jolt Haymaker or go for a stage spike if we use Rising Uppercut.
Sheik is a character that specializes in gimping. Obviously this is one of our worst match ups.

I agree that we beat Sonic. But it can still be pretty annoying just due to how much faster Sonic is than we are.

Ness is our worth matchup in the game. I've beaen plenty of Ness's myself, but I'm talking top-level players. They will always get the three fAirs off of down throw or even worse on Battlefield by forcing us to land on the left or right platform and going into a second inescapable throw at low percents. Ness's neutral air and fAir are amazing for gimping us as we try to recover. PK Thunder can also stop us from returning to the stage.
Ness can punish perfectly spaced forward tilts with dash-grab after shield. This matchup is unwinnable at top-level play.

I don't play enough Rosalinas to really know this matchup, but yeah Luma does seem to be non-issue.

Mario is not a hard counter. He definitely has the advantage, but he's not as bad as Sheik or Ness. He combos us easily like he does every other character on the roster. You should almost never Jolt Haymaker against him when recovering because the cape will gimp us for free. He doesn't juggle us off stage as easily as the other top characters so we can fight him on the stage more. His aerials are hard to deal with due to low landing lag and dAir being safe on shield. Tough matchup, but doable.

Lucario. This guy is considered a top character? He is definitely good, but he lacks the low landing lag aerials and juggle potential that true top characters have. He's pretty slow and has a lot of unsafe moves. Seems pretty free.

Pikachu. I don't know this matchup, but I can see how this would be one of the more difficult ones.

ZSS definitely has it in her favor because of her combos, gimping potential, and strong tools against grounded approaches. Not as bad as Mario, but in her favor.

Villager. You've obviously never played a top-level Villager. I've been lucky enough to play Melbourne, Australia's highest ranking player who happens to be both a Villager and Ness main. Vilager is incredibly difficult to approach on the ground or in the air due to all the rockets and retreating sling shots. Villager has a very easy time sending us off stage as we HAVE to approach and Villager is likely to find himself at the edge of the stage.
If Villager ever knocks you off stage then he can gimp Jolt Haymaker very easily with neutral air or forward air. Villager can drop deeper than any other character in the game so offstage play is no concern for him. Villager can also drop bowling balls off the ledge which easily gimps Rising Uppercut AND beats out Jolt Haymaker unless Little Mac timed and spaced it perfectly to clank with the bowling ball. Being that accurate isn't always possible as you might fall too far down if you don't Jolt Haymaker earlier.
When Little Mac is hanging from the ledge he has no good choices. Standing up at ledge or using get-up-attack both lose out to bowling ball. The bowling ball doesn't need to be timed as it has active frames until it hits the ground. The bowling ball sends Little Mac all the way to the blast zone as low as 40%. 40%!
Rolling is trumped by a pivot grab. By the way Villager has the longest non-tether grab in the game. Villager's pivot grab extends that range and it makes it the furthest reaching grab in the game. He can grab you without the net touching you. It looks really weird, but it works.
Jumping from the ledge is beat out be Villager's neutral air. Jumping is the best option as it means you don't die at 40% even if you get predicted and it isn't easy to react to like rolling is. But it's still a bad option as you are super easy to gimp if you get hit by that first neutral air.
In neutral if Villager ever gets off a block he's going to go into either neutral air or jabs. Villager's jabs are crazy fast, almost as fast as our own. If you get hit by jabs then he has an inescapable string jabs->downTilt->nAir. The jabs either cause you to exit hit stun just as you land on the ground or just slightly above the ground.
No offense, but most Villager players suck. This is not an easy fight as Villager can send us to the blast zone much earlier than we can do the same to him. The only matchup I find worse than this is Ness. Again I'm talking top-level play.

Falcon. Yup. His higher mobility and juggle game make him a nightmare. Have you seen his dash-grab? If we whiff a down-tilt or forward-tilt he can punish it with dash-grab from pretty far away. He can take us off stage rather easily.
This matchup is worse than ZSS, about the same difficulty as Mario but for different reasons.

I don't have any experience with top level Greninja or Bowser. So I have no input to share.

 

[Slimeproductions]

Maybe I'll elaborate someday, but my impressions on Mac vs the upper end of the tier list:

Diddy - slight disadvantage to us. Not so bad. 55-45 or 60-40
Sheik - Same as diddy
Sonic - I think we win this 60-40. HOWEVER, getting bthrowd is a real problem, so I could see this viewed as even
Ness - we probably lose this handily
Rosa - One of her worst match-ups imo. Luma doesn't exist in this match-up. It's reasonable to keep her killed the entire set.
Mario - Hard counters us
Lucario - I think we win this pretty solidly
Pikachu - kinda wrecks us. Lots of this comes from the very fact he can crouch and DASH underneath our ftilts and fsmashes, and jab combo doesn't really work against him. It's very hard to hit this guy and he gimps us really hard.
ZSS - I'd say even, maybe slightly in her favor
Villager - we beat solidly
Falcon - beats us solidly
Greninja - counters us (60-40 or 65-35)
Bowser - around even

Now marth/lucina aren't high tier or anything but they definitely hard counter us, probably as bad as mario. LM has a really weird spread of match-ups imo. He can fight the top tiers but he has some awful lower high tier and mid tier match-ups.

What about Mr.Game&Watch since he is 2 dimensional meaning he will fly farther (bout 20-999 damage would do)

 

[Alphicans]

Mac beats Sonic? LOL....maybe kirby but sonic nah. Sonic is faster and just play hit and run. Also Mac's edgegurading game is useless very sonic recovery. Macs will be need to be perfect pivoting like no tomorrow to get their offense started.

Edit:Vs. Diddy. How important do you think gilde tossing will be agaisnt him? I saw a vid showing off how mac can get a ko punch off a glide toss banana.

As mentioned jab can beat out spindash. It's a frame1 move so you can react on a dime and hit sonic. Play this match-up carefully and watch for the run by pivot grab -> bthrow and you should win this match.

@ Venks : If mario completely eliminates our best recovery option don't down play it dude lmfao. Also I am gonna say I've probably played better villagers than you. I feel you probably just don't know how to deal with the camp game. Like all you mentioned were options that most characters have. Villager does not excel at wrecking us while on the ledge any better than any other character. The stuff you mentioned is not special :/. Every get up option on any character can be beaten by any other character... Why you went through the trouble of telling me Villagers flow chart options is a mystery to me.

You mention his grab, but you fail to realize how bad his grab is. If you lock him in shield he can't do anything really because his grab is SOOOO slow. He's forced to roll, and guess what? His roll is trash.

EDIT: Also a thing to keep in mind about the sheik m/u is that lots of her power in relation the rest of the cast is that she solidly wins the neutral game vs everyone (even diddy) EXCEPT vs Little Mac. At top level play we're just not getting grabbed that much vs sheik, we have all the tools to deal with her stuff. This is something 90% of the cast cannot claim.

 

[Venks]

As mentioned jab can beat out spindash. It's a frame1 move so you can react on a dime and hit sonic. Play this match-up carefully and watch for the run by pivot grab -> bthrow and you should win this match.

@ Venks : If mario completely eliminates our best recovery option don't down play it dude lmfao. Also I am gonna say I've probably played better villagers than you. I feel you probably just don't know how to deal with the camp game. Like all you mentioned were options that most characters have. Villager does not excel at wrecking us while on the ledge any better than any other character. The stuff you mentioned is not special :/. Every get up option on any character can be beaten by any other character... Why you went through the trouble of telling me Villagers flow chart options is a mystery to me.

You mention his grab, but you fail to realize how bad his grab is. If you lock him in shield he can't do anything really because his grab is SOOOO slow. He's forced to roll, and guess what? His roll is trash.

EDIT: Also a thing to keep in mind about the sheik m/u is that lots of her power in relation the rest of the cast is that she solidly wins the neutral game vs everyone (even diddy) EXCEPT vs Little Mac. At top level play we're just not getting grabbed that much vs sheik, we have all the tools to deal with her stuff. This is something 90% of the cast cannot claim.

Haha. You're so funny. Villager does have a bad grab, it's not a real OoS option unless you do something incredibly unsafe. However it is still an option and it has the best reach out of any grab in the game if pivoted, but you wouldn't know that because you haven't played the best Villager players out there.
The Villager player I play has won over $700 in Smash 4 tournaments since the game came out. She's the highest ranking player in Melbourne, Australia.

Villager has the strongest ledge option in the game with the bowling ball. And I don't mean dropping it off the ledge. I mean positioning it so you can cover stand at ledge, roll from ledge, or get-up-attack from ledge. That move KOs at 40% and has an active hitbox until it lands on the ground. Who else on the roster can do that?

Also Jolt Haymaker is far from Little Mac's best recovery option. It's his most gimpable recovery choice. Why would you even use that move over Rising Uppercut? Everyone in the roster can just fAir you for the stock.

 

[Mrawesome48]

I still am unable to beat little mac. It is impossible. no matter who i play or what i do i still lose

 

[meleebrawler]

As mentioned jab can beat out spindash. It's a frame1 move so you can react on a dime and hit sonic. Play this match-up carefully and watch for the run by pivot grab -> bthrow and you should win this match.

@ Venks : If mario completely eliminates our best recovery option don't down play it dude lmfao. Also I am gonna say I've probably played better villagers than you. I feel you probably just don't know how to deal with the camp game. Like all you mentioned were options that most characters have. Villager does not excel at wrecking us while on the ledge any better than any other character. The stuff you mentioned is not special :/. Every get up option on any character can be beaten by any other character... Why you went through the trouble of telling me Villagers flow chart options is a mystery to me.

You mention his grab, but you fail to realize how bad his grab is. If you lock him in shield he can't do anything really because his grab is SOOOO slow. He's forced to roll, and guess what? His roll is trash.

EDIT: Also a thing to keep in mind about the sheik m/u is that lots of her power in relation the rest of the cast is that she solidly wins the neutral game vs everyone (even diddy) EXCEPT vs Little Mac. At top level play we're just not getting grabbed that much vs sheik, we have all the tools to deal with her stuff. This is something 90% of the cast cannot claim.

Most Villagers will Nair out of shield which is surprisingly effective.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

@ Mrawesome48

Hey man! Your question would probably be best asked in the Matchup thread! It's a lot more active, and discussion is already going to be centering around how Little Mac handles match ups. Discussing the match up from the other angle definitely wouldn't be out of the question!

If your question is something that focuses more on a part of Little Mac you don't fully understand, try asking around in the Q&A thread, as well!

I'm going to merge this thread into the Match up thread so that discussion can be shifted to there!

 

[Renegade TX2000]

Little Mac's Jabs are Active on Frame 1, but Ledge Climb only has two frames of vulnerability. There is a short gap between Jab1 -> Jab1.

So when you're on the ledge and instead of jumping from it, rolling, or attacking, you instead use the ledges regular stand to get back on stage? The Regular ledge Climb has only 2 frames of vulnerability to where you can get hit? Also what are the others vulnerability frames? Like when he attacks? Cause sometimes you can punish them from ledge attacking before they even get the move off so it clearly doesn't have full invulnerability

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Btw, is it common knowledge you can beat out Falco's fire with Jab?

 

[Alphicans]

You can beat anything with jab basically. I didn't know that specifically, but in a match I would jab firebird with 100% confidence.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

You can beat anything with jab basically. I didn't know that specifically, but in a match I would jab firebird with 100% confidence.

I meant Jab 3 specifically, but alright that's cool then

 

[Mrawesome48]

So how do you honestly play against this guy? I main princess peach (who is supposed to be a good counter don't quote me on this) and i have been having a lot of difficulty. I have asked this question a few times but i haven't gotten any good answers. I believe it takes more than just being able to shield, punish, and back throw him off the stage to win. I have tried getting him in the air but my aerial game is horrible because i cannot hit anyone in the air due to everyone air dodging out.

 

[Funkermonster]

Maybe I'll elaborate someday, but my impressions on Mac vs the upper end of the tier list:

Diddy - slight disadvantage to us. Not so bad. 55-45 or 60-40
Sheik - Same as diddy
Sonic - I think we win this 60-40. HOWEVER, getting bthrowd is a real problem, so I could see this viewed as even
Ness - we probably lose this handily
Rosa - One of her worst match-ups imo. Luma doesn't exist in this match-up. It's reasonable to keep her killed the entire set.
Mario - Hard counters us
Lucario - I think we win this pretty solidly
Pikachu - kinda wrecks us. Lots of this comes from the very fact he can crouch and DASH underneath our ftilts and fsmashes, and jab combo doesn't really work against him. It's very hard to hit this guy and he gimps us really hard.
ZSS - I'd say even, maybe slightly in her favor
Villager - we beat solidly
Falcon - beats us solidly
Greninja - counters us (60-40 or 65-35)
Bowser - around even

Now marth/lucina aren't high tier or anything but they definitely hard counter us, probably as bad as mario. LM has a really weird spread of match-ups imo. He can fight the top tiers but he has some awful lower high tier and mid tier match-ups.

Lucina and Marth counters you guys.... I honestly don't see it. Marth, maybe. Lucina, definitely no. I play them all the time, and I've actually heard some of their players complain about you. Aside from Robin, I fail to envision how any of the Fire Emblem cast would be so hard for Mac, much less Lucina. Maybe tough, but seems doable.

Anyhoo, Sonic boards are discussing the MU against you, and they're jokingly making fun of you too. I'd love for any of you to stop by, give your input, and hopefully joke's over .I main Sonic, but I don't think it was funny, and I think they underestimate you.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Do Little Mac players have any substantial weaknesses when battling Ike?