Smash 64 Remake?

[rpotts]

More stages. More options (timed stock, custom Random, etc.). Also, fix the random generator that always spews out Zebes and Yoshi's Island more than anything else (not kidding you...we actually kept tally once and it does end up at those two stages more often than the rest for some reason).

The random stage selection is random, just because one time you kept tally zebes came up more often doesn't mean it always does, thats part of being random. I joke with my friends that random = macro for zebes because it sucks when it comes up, but sometimes we would keep playing random until zebes came to end, and it never came.

Random = random

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Remake it for DS with only the following changes:
Ability to turn off tap jump, mostly due to the fact we're working with a control pad and not an analog stick.
Ability to reconfigure controls. Doesn't effect the game too much.
Have Final Destination, Battlefield, and the Metal Mario stage as playable. FD would probably be banned due to immense size, though.
No changes to mechanics. Or it becomes a different game.
Also, implement all the options that have come in the sequels, such as Random Stage Switch.

And then we have our remake. Replace "DS" with "Wii" if you wish and ignore the tap-jump note, though I would personally like to see a DS smash.

 

[DMoogle]

Now that I can fastfall-uair and uair through platforms with a reasonable consistency, I actually like and use the tap-jump now.

 

[Battlecow]

we need new stages- I like the idea of FD and battlefield, but I'd take off the weird edges. Dedede is a no, but I'd like bowser and definitely Mega man (although maybe he's too samus-y?). On the flip side, I'd actually like to take out a character- fox. It would never go down, because a lotta people love fox and are used to him, but I think he's boring to play and he doesn't make any sense. A spaceship pilot-devoid of spaceship- who comes to the ground and fights characters like Samus and Donkey Kong on their own level, and is suddenly a master of martial arts. Yeah, I know, you could make many of the same arguments re CF, but CF is cool. back off. Also, WTF @ Jiggs? Jiggs falls asleep and you fly away, jiggs was never popular, and Jiggs is (at first sight, and in some aspects even as you get good) very alike to Kirby. Get that pokemon out of here and give me Mewtwo (he was supposed to be in as well, I read somewhere.) I haven't played him in melee, but I can definitely see him having good moves and being a good character. Plus, he actually matters in the pokemon universe.

EDIT: Okay, read my post and I sound like an idiot. Let me just say that I realize that the game doesn't have to make sense to be awesome, and indeed it makes no sense, but I still think that, although fox is fun in a unique way, a character like Mewtwo, Bowser, Mega man, or even Conker could be equally fun, especially if they deviated from what they actually do. As for my saying that fox is boring, he's boring TO ME. I realize that he could be fun to play if I knew how to play him better.

 

[dch111]

The random stage selection is random, just because one time you kept tally zebes came up more often doesn't mean it always does, thats part of being random. I joke with my friends that random = macro for zebes because it sucks when it comes up, but sometimes we would keep playing random until zebes came to end, and it never came.

Random = random

It's happened more than just that time; it's just that when we kept tally to make sure it wasn't just an illusion, it happened to actually be that way. It's happened with other Smash 64 cartridges as well. I used to think Mushroom Kingdom was also more frequent, but that turned out to be just bias cause I didn't like the stage. But Yoshi's Island and Zebes occuring more frequently is no joke, at least with the cartridges I've played. And it's entirely possible the pseudo-random generator they used for stage selection is flawed in some way, if you've ever taken computer science.

 

[ballin4life]

Get some data and perform a significance test if you really want to convince anyone

 

[Dogboy]

Banjo+Kazooie would've been an awesome SSB character. They have a projectile, an obligatory power special, and a literal drill attack.

And desynching would be an actual mechanic with them, not a popular gltich.
Thing is, banjo couldn't move while kazooie is active. You'd have to switch inbtw them.

 

[Little England]

Honestly, I don't care about adding any characters. If this is done however I would hope none of them would play like brawl or melee characters.

In regards to balancing, we really have to be careful about trying to get every character exactly balanced. That sort of thing has usually backfired on fighting game developers when they are making a sequel. So basically,

1. the tiers should be squished. The strongest characters made slightly weaker and the weakest characters made slightly stronger.

OR

2: make every character better(of course, providing more love to low tiers) and take away anything broken or that is a hinderance to general gameplay.

I like number 2, because Pikachu, Kirby, Fox mains can still have fun with their characters. So, my tweaks will follow opt#2. Having said that, here are my minor changes:

Pikachu: No changes. Yeah I said it.

Fox: More length on recovery. Fire burns on startup of recovery. More length on ftilt

Kirby: Decrease hitbox from behind on utilt, but keep the priority. (I believe this will help kirby players not spam it out defensively since it is so safe)

Falcon: Make uairs slightly easier to SDI out of(not enough to escape the combo). Inscrease horizontal distance of upB.

Mario: Mario seems like the perfect character imo. Maybe make his nair stronger on opening frames to give him a stronger finish to his uair combos. More horizontal range on ftilt and dtilt.

Yoshi: Yoshi CAN combo. I don't know why people say he can't. lol Anyways..bigger uair hitbox please. Less lag on startup of fsmash.

DK: No infinite fthrow on floaties anymore(although I heard there is a way out of this with puff's rest and samus' upB if you mash these out at the right time after being released.) A useful ftilt would be nice. Easier (reverse) full DK punch cancel.

Ness: More range on SLIGHTLY on fair so he can approach, but no TOO much. Ness' tech chase game is the best/easiest in the game. He'd be amazing with a real SOLID approach. As for his recovery, let's also not make it too good. All I say is make his PSI Magnet (downB) sweetspot faster when you use it near the edge.

Puff: More range on bair and fair. Same hitstun and priority though. Rest isn't broken at all. Srsly.

Luigi: A shorter short hop wouldn't make Luigi Luigi imo. Tbh I'm lost here on how Luigi could be made better without changing him as a character. Help please?

Link: Japanese horizontal distance on UpB as well as a wider hitbox. I think it should be wide enough to out range pika's fsmash. Link is otherwise perfect =)

Samus: This sure is a tuffy. Ok here's what I think. Samus is horrible. Nobody can argue that. Her current model will not ever be effective in 64. Now if we change her STYLE however, I think she'll have a chance. So here we go: I was talking to Lovage about his. Samus' full charge shot. It's her best tool. It's the strongest of her attacks and it has massive shield stun. What I want to do is enable Samus to use this shield stun more effectively.

So First, we need Samus to be able to do more out of the charge shot shield stun than grab>bthrow. Here's what I was thinking. Give her a fthrow that works like her melee dthrow except it should place the opponent right in front of Samus. This will setup a free fsmash. I think this will be a nice edition. It won't hinder her ability to kill in front of her from a fthrow.

Other changes....Bounce on morphball bombs. This should help for combos and obviously recovery. A lot more hitstun on uair. Larger ftilt. That is all.



So yeah these are my changes. A lot of characters need better tilts. Thoughts?

w00ps! Forgot about stages. Metal Mario stage and How to play stage please!

 

[WOTG]

The only things that can be improved on the game IMO, is some of the recoveries, priorities(like on pika and kirby), add next-gen graphics... could add a "little" more characters, or more stages... more music.... And that's it. Don't need to change everything.

 

[ballin4life]

Why nerf falcon's uair? He is not that good.

 

[Little England]

Umm..Falcon ***** and you obviously just skipped to the character changes without reading the preface.

 

[asianaussie]

Who said Yoshi can't combo...?

Give Jiggs more height on her last three jumps.

Make Kirby's U-Air better...more damage, a NON-FIXED KB, or just change it completely.

As for Luigi, put more emphasis on his fire. Give him faster moving fireballs, maybe with the swivel effect of Mewtwo's shadowballs. Give him more range on U-Air, add a fire effect to mask that. Make his jab, U-Tilt and D-Tilt ignite the opponent and add hitstun and fire to his U-Tilt. If you can make combo starting easier for him (then add gimmicks for fun), you won't be detracting from his 'Luigi-ness'.

 

[NixxxoN]

Umm..Falcon ***** and you obviously just skipped to the character changes without reading the preface.

Falcon must not be touched. Falcons uair is ****, but he also can be easily ***** by combos, hes one of the easiest chars to combo... and to gimp/to **** his bad recovery.

 

[ballin4life]

Umm..Falcon ***** and you obviously just skipped to the character changes without reading the preface.

No I read the preface. Falcon is not one of the best characters, and making his uair weaker will make him worse for no real reason. He doesn't need to be nerfed.

 

[NixxxoN]

Little england, you said make all chars better, but then you nerf some of them?
I tried to balance them to high tiers mario and falcon, i think thats a good zone.


Pikachu: Smaller fsmash hitbox and shorter attack, less powerful bair, less priority utilt.
Fox: Laser no knockback, only damage, like in melee.
Kirby: Decrease hitbox from behind on utilt, a bit less powerful dair
Falcon: Nothing.
Mario: Nothing.
Yoshi: Faster eggs, faster horizontal and vertical speed.
DK: down+b in the air (lol), faster uair.
Ness: Improve fair priority. Greatly improve his recovery (faster up+b, keep all the invincibility frames like in the j.a.p. version and make him fall like fox)
Puff: Melee recovery, faster uair.
Luigi: Increase horizontal speed. Improve his sh¡tty dash attack.
Link: Make him just like the european version. Faster horizontal speed, better recovery, higher up+b, more powerful fsmash.
Samus: Faster grab, Faster rolling, faster down+b, melee style recovery, and thats probably it.

 

[dandan]

Luigi: Increase horizontal speed. Improve his sh¡tty dash attack.

what about stopping his short hop from being so god**** high, on kb i cannot ff uair after dair which really weakens his game.

 

[NixxxoN]

what about stopping his short hop from being so god**** high, on kb i cannot ff uair after dair which really weakens his game.

Its harder to do for Luigi than mario. If Luigi's jumps and shorthops become short, like marios, then its not luigi anymore, its a firepunching mario... D:
Try to build damage with more simple stuff then

 

[Daedatheus]

Fox: Laser no knockback, only damage, like in melee.

Too big of a change. This would change how Fox is played and would get rid of many applicable Fox combos.

 

[WOTG]

Pikachu: Less priority on all his attacks(specifically). No invincible frames on recovery.
Fox: Lasers do less damage. Less knock-back on shine(specifically).
Kirby: Less Priority on all his attacks(specifically).
Falcon: Less range on up-smash.
Mario: Fireballs do less damage.
Yoshi: No Parry(lol)
DK: No invincible frames on Up-B.
Ness: Ness is also invincible at the start of PK thunder; travels less distance, and does less damage/knock-back.
Puff: More hit-stun for f-throw. Less knock-back for b-throw.
Luigi: Fireballs do more damage. Slightly shorter short-hop. Dash attacks has little more hit-stun.
Link: Up-B travels greater distance horizontally in the air. Slightly less attack range on Up-B.
Samus: More hit-stun on u-air

Fixed.... Maybe.

 

[ballin4life]

Less knockback on shine would make shine jabs and stuff way easier.

Also why do you want to make every character worse?

 

[WOTG]

Less knock-back (specifically).

Make all the characters worse????

 

[Fireblaster]

Less knock-back (specifically).

Make all the characters worse????

Less knockback means the character doesn't fly as far and therefore more comboing.

It doesn't mean less hitstun, which is a totally different matter.

 

[Zen Yore]

1. the tiers should be squished. The strongest characters made slightly weaker and the weakest characters made slightly stronger.

Fox: More length on recovery. Fire burns on startup of recovery. More length on ftilt

IIRC, you're not making any sense.

 

[NixxxoN]

Ness: Ness is also invincible at the start of PK thunder; travels less distance, and does less damage/knock-back.

I think this would make ness players spam up+b around the stage.

DK: No invincible frames on Up-B.

great, we have another garbage recovery D:

Pikachu: Less priority on all his attacks(specifically). No invincible frames on recovery.
Kirby: Less Priority on all his attacks(specifically).
Yoshi: No Parry(lol)

Too much nerfed probably xP

Too big of a change. This would change how Fox is played and would get rid of many applicable Fox combos.

Yeah but still he would probably be about high tier i think.
Dont you agree that laser spamming around is a bit gay?

 

[Daedatheus]

DK: No invincible frames on Up-B.

BUT... BUT... That's the only way DK can ever recover, with clever arm-spacing! Without those invincible arms he would never make it back.

 

[WOTG]

Hahaha.
It's very hard to think of ways to balance the characters without completely changing their play-styles.

 

[SSBPete]

no parries...this game would be soooo lame if everyone was equal.

 

[Little England]

IIRC, you're not making any sense.

Read the FULL post.

No I read the preface. Falcon is not one of the best characters, and making his uair weaker will make him worse for no real reason. He doesn't need to be nerfed.

I didn't say to make his uair weaker.

Little england, you said make all chars better, but then you nerf some of them?

I said "make every character better(of course, providing more love to low tiers) and take away anything broken or that is a hinderance to general gameplay."

My reasoning for the Falcon comment is that it is relatively easy to 0-death/get in good edge guarding position, with Falcon. SDI doesn't help you get out THAT much and I was only asking to make it slightly easier. Forgive me, if that was unclear. I still want Falcon's general combos. I also said to increase his Up-B. I felt that this trade-off provided more of a boost for Falcon.

Edit: Looking back at the post, I could see how you would say that Zen Yore. I was giving options for balancing, so I was picking #1 OR #2 not doing both. I decided to make my changes based on philosophy #2.

 

[ballin4life]

Letting his uair be DIed more easily is making it weaker.

Half of Falcon's game is his uair, and it isn't that broken (falcon isn't even in the highest tier).

 

[Little England]

Weaker=a measure of strength which equates to knock back more than anything. Be specific.

I never said it was broken. Just because I'm changing the properties of it that doesn't mean I think it's broken. I don't think DK's "chain grab" is broken, yet I decided that it should be escaped easier. And yes, I am familiar with 64's tier list.

 

[DMoogle]

Good DI can certainly make life more difficult for CF players, particularly at lower (<60) percents.

 

[Deleted member]

"balancing" would make the game a lot more boring than it already is

 

[Dogboy]

Um.. If you think Smash 64 is boring, why are you here?
and, to the "balancers" here, I dont know what's exactly broken in this game besides all the glitches that have found their way into advanced play, lol... If those were fixed, what would the smash community do without "advanced technique" and "black hole glitch" tutoriials?Lol.

Anyway, heres my change list, again....

Update Graphics, sounds for current gen.
Rewrite the controls script so that they can be configged a la Brawl.
Inmert the characters that were originally going to be put in form the start ddd, etc...

 

[Fireblaster]

to the "balancers" here, I dont know what's exactly broken in this game besides all the glitches that have found their way into advanced play, lol... If those were fixed, what would the smash community do without "advanced technique" and "black hole glitch" tutoriials?Lol.

Anyway, heres my change list, again....

Update Graphics, sounds for current gen.
Rewrite the controls script so that they can be configged a la Brawl.
Inmert the characters that were originally going to be put in form the start ddd, etc...

Now I know you play brawl. You think glitches are advanced techniques.

 

[ciaza]

^ To be be fair we DO have teleporting, but that's about it.

 

[asianaussie]

There is nothing 'broken' in this game, compared to, say, Metaknight's cape stall thing. Name one thing that is broken, go on.

The 64 black hole is four links throwing non-exploding bombs and having them collide endlessly, isn't it?

Completely unrelated, I love setting 4 Samuses to the same KB controls, running them all into a wall and spamming Up-B to stall across the stage. You never touch the ground.

 

[DMoogle]

EDIT: Nevermind.

 

[Kakugyo]

Actually, i am not for nerfing characters, but I think some chars -cough- link -cough- donkey -cough samus -cough- could use a lot of work.

 

[asianaussie]

Link is awesome. DK is awesome. Samus...eh.

 

[Snowmanthatknows]

I'd like to see Harry from Teleroboxer. lolol The game kicks ***.

A smash 64 remake would be pretty nice, I wouldn't want to see the graphics so over done and 3D, though. Is it just me, or do the new high def 3D fighters just make the game-play not as fun and just feel so odd?

Yeah, Link is pretty amazing and DK is fcuking cheap.

I just wish their recoveries were a bit better.

For changing characters, though.

Kirby: should be a little bit nerfed, make him a bit bigger so he's easier to hit
Link: Bombs hit box smaller, recovery go vertical a bit more.
Samus: Get rid of the bombs stealing your own jump, more hit stun and less knock back.
Pikachu: Make the dirty rat more adorable.
Jiggs: Make her rest more powerful, u-throw has more hit stun.