smash 64, better than brawl?

[Dylan_Tnga]

uh, you CAN dashdance in brawl, but its annoying, cuz 9/10, you will trip, and get smashed away.

because brawl in every respect sucks?

I swear to god its TOO easy to pick up, I played it for the first time and in 1 hour was beating people who had played for 4 months, then DESTROYED them in melee with falcon.

Its like riding a bike but I find playing 64 smash is always a good way to keep in check. Everything about smash is in 64, youve got cool movement options, extremely advanced techs, crazy combos, 0 lag from aerials..

I think melee is best competitivly, its far superior due to falcon being more awesome (knee) and more people compete at the highest level.

Smash 64 has the best online bar none.

Brawl is fun but I cant take it seriously.

 

[E.M.]

I like how you ignore the rest of my post. And the join date only shows how recently you joined this community. Combined with how wrong your post was it shows how little you know and how you really should stop posting.

Maybe you should stop posting?

Considering that you took what I posted as outright fact instead of the opinion it really was, I'd say right about now all you're doing is blabbering and beating your E-chest. Maybe you're so hostile because you've probably had your *** handed to you in smash64 one too many times.

 

[Fireblaster]

Maybe you should stop posting?

Considering that you took what I posted as outright fact instead of the opinion it really was, I'd say right about now all you're doing is blabbering and beating your E-chest.

You posted as fact that lots of characters in ssb64 can be played the same way. I posted about how wrong you were and all you did to counter was "well its MY experience". It's like saying "well from MY experience riding a bike is the same as driving a car".

Maybe you're so hostile because you've probably had your *** handed to you in smash64 one too many times.

Wow you have some insane logic, I'm defending ssb64 from clueless idiots like you because I lost at it a lot.

I wish smashboards had an ignore feature like gamefaqs. So I could ignore noobs that talk a lot of crap and think they're always right and that they actually think they know what they're talking about.

 

[Goldberg]

It does have an ignore feature, or you could just play some more SSB64, I know I always choose the second one.

 

[E.M.]

"or you could just play some more SSB64, I know I always choose the second one."

Great! Fireblaster, enough BSing and go play ssb64. Remember to enjoy your self.

"think they're always right and that they actually think they know what they're talking about."

That's hilarious. You spin more **** around than a politician.


To end this little argument, my position stands, it's easy to play with multiple characters using the same playstyle/strategy/etc FOR ME. Of course since people play somewhat differently from one another, some may think otherwise, like Fireblaster.

In brawl, that's a different story.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Nice joke account. Massive movement options? in Brawl? You MUST be joking boy. No dashdancing, no wavedashing, no DJC, being forced to stay on the ledge until invincibility runs out, more lag on every aerial move, this is what you call having better movement options?

Please show us your "awesome" Brawl combos. I can't wait to see you beating on lvl 1 dummies in training mode or your friends that suck.

Characters move almost exactly the same way in 64. Some characters have a bit of difference in midair jumps, but otherwise you really can't tell each other's movement apart. Things like Run speed, fall speed, and DI are mostly similar in 64.

You can Dashdance in Brawl if you want to. There are more ledge and defense options in both Brawl and Melee and the ability to tech off more surfaces than floors is something that can't be ignored. Aerial attack momentum altering is much more prominent in Brawl than it is in 64 OR Melee. So are recovery strategies. Also you get four special attacks in Melee and Brawl rather than 3 in 64. You actually have many techniques in Brawl that revolve around recovery moves depending on the mobility benefits you get from them (character specific yes, but still actually depth).

Characters are better at moving in Brawl than in 64. They move best in Melee hands down.

You can autocancel attacks like Ganondorf or Falcon's D-air and get really cool combos from them, and you actually need skill to pull those off. Those are probably my favorite examples of combos in Brawl. There's some other rare guaranteed **** that's cool. I never said that made it better than 64, but you can't really say that there are no good combos in Brawl and no level of technical depth that has benefits.

The one thing that I really don't like about 64 is the fact that grabs are most ******** in this game out of the entire series. They are so strong you don't really get combo setups on them unless you exploit terrain, which is gay. And almost all of them kill, which is also gay. And unless you're playing Yoshi, Link or Samus they have no lag disadvantages.

In Brawl only a few throws kill, and since melee, lag on grabbing is greater. Now combo setups are still rather uncommon in Brawl, but you have some, at least at lower percents. I'll admit here the thing that irks me is that mainly just a few specific characters won out with some tourney level grab strategies, but at least in Brawl you hold someone captive and have a 4 throw system which at least still keeps the technique of positioning advantage.

Another thing about 64 is I don't think you can block if I recall. You can block in both Melee and Brawl, granted it is much easier to do in Brawl, but honestly this one simple defense option helps to bring out the best in one's ability to read and react to an opponent's attack on the spot.

If Brawl didn't have random tripping, it would be better than 64 in normal gameplay because it actually has a few more options available to make the game less linear, but it still would not be as good as Melee.

Now on a scale of the entire game (features outside of regular Brawls), Brawl is definitely better than 64. That shouldn't be argued rly. It's debatable whether the entire game Brawl is better than the entire game Melee I guess. Brawl has a better 1P mode due to somewhat better AIs and SSE, but Melee's advanced techniques can't be ignored when doing the extra stuff either.

 

[Blackshadow]

To end this little argument, my position stands, it's easy to play with multiple characters using the same playstyle/strategy/etc FOR ME. Of course since people play somewhat differently from one another, some may think otherwise, like Fireblaster.

He means to say if you played the game WELL, you would know most characters cannot be played the same as one another. In the end, you're both right.

 

[cemo]

I was in the process of writing a long post to A2ZOMG, but then I realized it would be a waste of time.

I mean, I applaud your effort and you're trying to give your opinion, but you're not knowledgeable enough about 64 or Melee to make fair comparisons.

 

[Surri-Sama]

Another thing about 64 is I don't think you can block if I recall. You can block in both Melee and Brawl, granted it is much easier to do in Brawl, but honestly this one simple defense option helps to bring out the best in one's ability to read and react to an opponent's attack on the spot.

haha your so awesome man, i needed a good laugh to start my day

 

[SheerMadness]

Characters are better at moving in Brawl than in 64. They move best in Melee hands down.

LOL

The movement in ssb64 is FAR more fluent than brawl. In brawl theres a sliding motion after you dash which you can't do anything during and it SEVERELY limits movement options.

And I seriously hope by not being able to block in ssb64 you mean powershielding or parrying.

And Phen is right, you clearly know nothing about high level ssb64 play so please don't make ridiculous statements. I've played all 3 games at the highest competitive level and IMO brawl is nowhere near ssb64 or melee's league. Brawl is simply a party game people are trying to make competitive.

 

[Karma*~]

Characters are better at moving in Brawl than in 64. They move best in Melee hands down.

Not really, no.

Another thing about 64 is I don't think you can block if I recall. You can block in both Melee and Brawl, granted it is much easier to do in Brawl, but honestly this one simple defense option helps to bring out the best in one's ability to read and react to an opponent's attack on the spot.

Yeah, you can.

If Brawl didn't have random tripping, it would be better than 64 in normal gameplay because it actually has a few more options available to make the game less linear, but it still would not be as good as Melee.

It's not random if you don't be hasty/careless with your movement. I have tripped *once* with Kirby ever.

Now on a scale of the entire game (features outside of regular Brawls), Brawl is definitely better than 64. That shouldn't be argued rly. It's debatable whether the entire game Brawl is better than the entire game Melee I guess. Brawl has a better 1P mode due to somewhat better AIs and SSE, but Melee's advanced techniques can't be ignored when doing the extra stuff either.

It's not so much the AI as the fact that it's broken. Boss mode is stupid (and broken on higher difficulties), SSE is too long and doesn't allow you to pick individual characters until you clear it, All-Star is broken and unfair to lightweights, and Classic nearly made me have a hissyfit this morning -- when you're playing Intense and have had < 50% on every fight so far, five lives still, etc. then lose ALL FIVE to a no-ally (granted, they suck) Giant Wario fight, who simply up-tilts you for OHKO, then gets Final Smash, Warp Stars you, then releases the Waft. It's also stupid when he gets even bigger or invincibility when you get nothing, even if you "completed the instruction." Essentially, 1P in Brawl is broken.

 

[Surri-Sama]

LOL

The movement in ssb64 is FAR more fluent than brawl. In brawl theres a sliding motion after you dash which you can't do anything during and it SEVERELY limits movement options.

And I seriously hope by not being able to block in ssb64 you mean powershielding or parrying.

And Phen is right, you clearly know nothing about high level ssb64 play so please don't make ridiculous statements. I've played all 3 games at the highest competitive level and IMO brawl is nowhere near ssb64 or melee's league. Brawl is simply a party game people are trying to make competitive.

Aww your lucky..ive only been able to truely compeat at smash64's top level...stupid small town...why doesnt melee have online...i think they should have recreated Melee with ONline that doesnt lag, insted of Brawl..seems more worth my 50$

 

[CKaiser]

well i'm going to go ahead and say that brawl is more competitive than SSB64. I mean when's the last time anyone beat isai in a real match? So basically it's not worth playing SSB64 cuz he'll hand your *** to you no matter what anyway

 

[Maurice Clarett]

I'm so glad to make this my first post...

SSB64 is still the best game ever, IMO.

 

[Surri-Sama]

well i'm going to go ahead and say that brawl is more competitive than SSB64. I mean when's the last time anyone beat isai in a real match? So basically it's not worth playing SSB64 cuz he'll hand your *** to you no matter what anyway

haha you dont even know what competitive means xD

The fact that there is ONE top player in Smash64 would amke it more competitive (providing it wasnt 9 years old and followed by a sequal...and one "thing") please please please go back to the Brawl boards with your ignorance :D

 

[Spartan1841]

I still love SSB64 but melee and brawl imo are better

 

[Surri-Sama]

I still love SSB64 but melee and brawl imo are better

i Love smash64, but Mortalkombat is better imo...


Doesnt make much sense does it? Did you pick your opinion randomly out of a hat??

i dout it¿

Reasons!

 

[CKaiser]

haha you dont even know what competitive means xD

The fact that there is ONE top player in Smash64 would amke it more competitive (providing it wasnt 9 years old and followed by a sequal...and one "thing") please please please go back to the Brawl boards with your ignorance :D

You're just SOOOO mean sirhc *sob* I just wanted to be liked *cry*

 

[Best101]

Now on a scale of the entire game (features outside of regular Brawls), Brawl is definitely better than 64. That shouldn't be argued rly. It's debatable whether the entire game Brawl is better than the entire game Melee I guess. Brawl has a better 1P mode due to somewhat better AIs and SSE, but Melee's advanced techniques can't be ignored when doing the extra stuff either.

Less see here.

-We have 35 characters in Brawl. That's good, but we only have 5 BtT stages. To completely beat all of these stages with every character you would have to play these 5 lame stages 175 times. In Smash64 you had 12 characters with 12 unique BtT stages, and 12 unique BtP stages. If I had bought these two games at the same time, I would be having more fun with Smash64 right about now.
Melee's has taken BtP from the Smashbros series, but it still have 25 characters with 25 different BtT stages for every character.

-Race to the finish was in both Melee and Smash64. What happened with Brawl?

-Melee has 51 Event matches that are more creative and much more satisfying to beat to Brawl's medicore 41 (62 if you count the Co-op) Event matches. Seriously now compare the last last two Events in both games. Smash64 can't even compete in this category because it doesn't have Event Mathes.

-Stadium. Once again Smash64 can't compete because it doesn't have this mode. We've already talked about BtT, now on to the HRC. In Melee's HRC you had to be careful not to knock the sandbag off the stage. It was very difficult to get high scores on this game, and the limit for high scores are limited to 11,000 something feet. In Brawl however this was fixed, and the platform was made bigger, and a shield was added to keep the bag on the platform. This was the only thing I feel that Brawl has fixed.

-Multi-Man Melee/Brawl. Melee came first with all of this and Brawl came second with no improvements.

-All-Star Mode. Melee came first with all of this and Brawl came second with no improvements with one minor difference. In Brawl you fight in a certain order all the time, while in Melee you fight in no particular order, but Mr. G&W would always be last.

-Boss Battles. Pretty much a dumb addition if you ask me. I hated the Subspace mode and hated the bosses even more. The only good thing I liked about is that you get to see Ridley and Rayquaza. Of course this section was all opinionated and probably wasn't needed. But I guess it'll be a plus since neither Melee or Smash64 had these two modes.

-Classic. Smash64 is the best because it is the classic. Melee coming in second with the most balanced classic mode, while still being classic. Brawl in last because the Giant Brawl fights, where giant characters are broken.

-Adventure mode. While at first Melee felt like an actual adventure then later turned into a longer classic mode it was cool and fun to play. Now SSE is a huge long adventure with mode tons of levels that are repeated like a thousand times. SSE is super repetitive because you fight the same enemies for 3 hours or longer. Look at the IGN review for the "lame enemies debate"
Here's the deal when you play: run 2 or 3 feet, battle a Primid or something, run 3 or 4 more feet and kill a few more Primids, fall for 4 feet and fight some more Primids, and rinse and repeat for 4 hours.
The cut scenes is what made it good but having the ability to watch the cut scenes without having to play the Subspace more than once which pretty much kills the incentive to play it. And to think they spent most of their production time on this linear mode.

Anything else I missed?

 

[Surri-Sama]

You're just SOOOO mean sirhc *sob* I just wanted to be liked *cry*

Im not mean, im pointing out the obvious :o

If thats mean then...yeah wait it is mean..i am mean!!!yeaaah!!!!!

but seriously, i only sound mean because i dont like foolishness...aka people talkign when they have NO IDEA what they are talkign about

 

[A2ZOMG]

Less see here.

-We have 35 characters in Brawl. That's good, but we only have 5 BtT stages. To completely beat all of these stages with every character you would have to play these 5 lame stages 175 times. In Smash64 you had 12 characters with 12 unique BtT stages, and 12 unique BtP stages. If I had bought these two games at the same time, I would be having more fun with Smash64 right about now.

Actually wrong, it's better that every character can access the same BTT stage. Changing characters automatically requires you to come up with a different strategy to complete BTT most effectively. Yes it looks bad at first glance, but really it's better. And no, the stages are not lame. You need just as much strategy and technical skill to find the optimal route for completion, and you get to do this many more times over thanks to this option. This kind of thing is the reason why people did BtT mismatches back in Melee.

-Race to the finish was in both Melee and Smash64. What happened with Brawl?

Can't argue that. This should have been in Brawl.

-Stadium. Once again Smash64 can't compete because it doesn't have this mode. We've already talked about BtT, now on to the HRC. In Melee's HRC you had to be careful not to knock the sandbag off the stage. It was very difficult to get high scores on this game, and the limit for high scores are limited to 11,000 something feet. In Brawl however this was fixed, and the platform was made bigger, and a shield was added to keep the bag on the platform. This was the only thing I feel that Brawl has fixed.

The shield breaks if you aren't careful. So at least it's not overly easy.

-Boss Battles. Pretty much a dumb addition if you ask me. I hated the Subspace mode and hated the bosses even more. The only good thing I liked about is that you get to see Ridley and Rayquaza. Of course this section was all opinionated and probably wasn't needed. But I guess it'll be a plus since neither Melee or Smash64 had these two modes.

You don't like bosses? Eh, too bad. They're better than Master Hand, Crazy Hand, and Giga Bowser srsly.

-Adventure mode. While at first Melee felt like an actual adventure then later turned into a longer classic mode it was cool and fun to play. Now SSE is a huge long adventure with mode tons of levels that are repeated like a thousand times. SSE is super repetitive because you fight the same enemies for 3 hours or longer. Look at the IGN review for the "lame enemies debate"
Here's the deal when you play: run 2 or 3 feet, battle a Primid or something, run 3 or 4 more feet and kill a few more Primids, fall for 4 feet and fight some more Primids, and rinse and repeat for 4 hours.
The cut scenes is what made it good but having the ability to watch the cut scenes without having to play the Subspace more than once which pretty much kills the incentive to play it. And to think they spent most of their production time on this linear mode.

Anything else I missed?

Adventure mode in Melee was terrible...There really isn't anything to it that makes it unique from classic mode except you fight a bunch of lame enemies along the way.

SSE, you have actual map exploration and treasure hunting. Yeah SSE is also terrible, but it's at least different unlike Melee Adventure mode. It also ties in all the characters into it all at once, rather than being a runthrough with a single character, so it's also a good way to pick up a lot of characters quickly. Also, the enemies, while repetitive and lame, actually have some sort of AI to cope with. Also the platform elements are quite a lot better.

And no rly, you actually can move a lot in Brawl. There's more, but 64 really doesn't have technical options like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16e40V2L6hU

 

[Zantetsu]

Actually wrong, it's better that every character can access the same BTT stage. Changing characters automatically requires you to come up with a different strategy to complete BTT most effectively. Yes it looks bad at first glance, but really it's better. And no, the stages are not lame. You need just as much strategy and technical skill to find the optimal route for completion, and you get to do this many more times over thanks to this option. This kind of thing is the reason why people did BtT mismatches back in Melee.

I'm confused here. Correct me if I'm wrong but it looks like your saying since all the characters are on the same BTT stage in brawl, that makes all character routes have to think differently?

How is that not in melee? You would have a totally new stage where you would have to change your strategy dramatically.

Also, the reason people did mismatches in melee was because they already broke target test to the fasted time and wanted to try something new. If each character in brawl had there own stage, people would also be doing mismatches. If it's there, why not take it?

And no rly, you actually can move a lot in Brawl. There's more, but 64 really doesn't have technical options like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16e40V2L6hU

64 may not have something as little as that but it does have z canceling and combos.

I'd rather have a broken combo system with z cancels, then have no combo system at all with little things like that ^.^

 

[A2ZOMG]

I'm confused here. Correct me if I'm wrong but it looks like your saying since all the characters are on the same BTT stage in brawl, that makes all character routes have to think differently?

Characters have completely different physics and hitboxes, and some have projectiles and others don't, while others are much better at jumping than others. Some characters can adapt to surfaces fluently, while others can't. If you play every single character on the same BtT stage, you will almost always have a completely different strategy due to the fact characters move and attack much differently.

How is that not in melee? You would have a totally new stage where you would have to change your strategy dramatically.

No, you don't actually need new stages when characters move around and attack differently. The Brawl developers in this way were smart and also cut down on the space needed to make stages for BtT.

Also, the reason people did mismatches in melee was because they already broke target test to the fasted time and wanted to try something new. If each character in brawl had there own stage, people would also be doing mismatches. If it's there, why not take it?

Mismatches are just obsoleted. Now you don't have to do weird stuff to your game to have new challenges. =)

Believe me, I was initially really upset that they took out character specific stages, but I've played through it and it's really not bad.

64 may not have something as little as that but it does have z canceling and combos.

I'd rather have a broken combo system with z cancels, then have no combo system at all with little things like that ^.^

I used that as ONE example to prove that movement options are indeed better in Brawl and that's the one thing more technical about Brawl than 64. There's a lot more where that came from. If you don't know what I'm talking about I think you should read more about that in the Brawl tactical discussion. Like honestly, movement options are a lot better in Brawl than in 64, minus random tripping. It's best in Melee yes.

And there ARE combos in Brawl, and those usually require technical skill to pull off, while a lot of the combos in 64 are fairly easy to pull off on a technical basis unless you do an Isai. I can't argue that comboing is better in 64 and Melee, but it's really not accurate to say there aren't combos in Brawl.

Also 64 doesn't have powershielding, and grabs are lame.

All in all I judged Brawl and 64 to be equal in terms of gameplay. =/

 

[Steck]

I have come to a new opinion. I actually like 64 a little bit more than brawl. Not because its more competitive, but just because I have a little bit more fun playing it. Love both games though.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Nothing wrong with that man, Smash is known to be super fun. ^^

If you want me to give my opinion, even though I know Brawl is overrated, it's the one I find most fun, so I play it over the others. But really people shouldn't overlook 64 since really it's a completely different game from the other two.

 

[Fireblaster]

I used that as ONE example to prove that movement options are indeed better in Brawl and that's the one thing more technical about Brawl than 64. There's a lot more where that came from. If you don't know what I'm talking about I think you should read more about that in the Brawl tactical discussion. Like honestly, movement options are a lot better in Brawl than in 64, minus random tripping. It's best in Melee yes.

And there ARE combos in Brawl, and those usually require technical skill to pull off, while a lot of the combos in 64 are fairly easy to pull off on a technical basis unless you do an Isai. I can't argue that comboing is better in 64 and Melee, but it's really not accurate to say there aren't combos in Brawl.

Also 64 doesn't have powershielding, and grabs are lame.

All in all I judged Brawl and 64 to be equal in terms of gameplay. =/

Well since you know so much, show us some of these combos. Go to training mode, and show us that the combo meter actually says it's a combo and doesn't reset by anything other than a grab. I really wanna see what these "really technical" combos in brawl are.

And the only thing Brawl has in terms of movement is a lot of little quirks in the game because of the weird slidy floaty physics of that game. Overall most of those are ****ing useless and have no point being used in a real battle. Craqwalking? B boost ledge jumping (aka running off a ledge while attacking lololol). None of these "techniques" are 1/5th as useful as simple stuff like DJC and real dash dancing, both of which ssb64 has and Brawl doesn't.

You can go to hell and take your **** list of massive tiny little movement options, but stop trying to convince everyone else that there's so much more freedom in brawl and many more useful options.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Well since you know so much, show us some of these combos. Go to training mode, and show us that the combo meter actually says it's a combo and doesn't reset by anything other than a grab. I really wanna see what these "really technical" combos in brawl are.

And the only thing Brawl has in terms of movement is a lot of little quirks in the game because of the weird slidy floaty physics of that game. Overall most of those are ****ing useless and have no point being used in a real battle. Craqwalking? B boost ledge jumping (aka running off a ledge while attacking lololol). None of these "techniques" are 1/5th as useful as simple stuff like DJC and real dash dancing, both of which ssb64 has and Brawl doesn't.

You can go to hell and take your **** list of massive tiny little movement options, but stop trying to convince everyone else that there's so much more freedom in brawl and many more useful options.

Dude chill out. I'm really trying to be as unbiased as possible here so give me some respect now will you? I don't have anything against the fact you may love 64 more than Brawl and I know I like Brawl more than 64, but I'm really trying to break it down here.

As for combos, try looking at this. D-air to Knee actually works in Brawl http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsF_zFKyvkY

There's other stuff like jab locks and other technical things which really do raise the combo counter, and I'm really really too lazy to mention some of these since Brawl rly does have a lot of things to learn about, so will you kindly read the Brawl boards as many smart people have discovered what is a legit combo in Brawl.

Sliding is amazingly useful since really there are no real disadvantages to it since you can alter your momentum with jumps anyway, and there are a lot of things you can do while sliding. Yeah you can't DJC in Brawl, but Pikachu has QAC, Peach can still float, and other character specific stuff that is more useful than DJC anyway. A lot of character recovery moves are really good (look at R.O.B. for example), and the effect of momentum altering aerial attacks is very noticeable in Brawl. Dashdancing is okay but simply standing and reading your opponent is almost as good anyway (and in Brawl, you have stutter stepped F-smashes in exchange which is VERY useful), and you have a ton of other exploits from canceling dash attacks into U-smashes, momentum reversal with special attacks, the ledge options 64 doesn't have. Really there are many more useful movement options in Brawl than there are in 64. I'd rather not list everything out there and rather you should read some things for yourself.

The other thing is both Brawl and Melee have more options at the ledge, a better dodge system, and the ability to powershield, and 64's grab system is really lame. IMO powershielding alone is hugely important to have in any fighting game.

 

[Fireblaster]

Dude chill out. I'm really trying to be as unbiased as possible here so give me some respect now will you? I don't have anything against the fact you may love 64 more than Brawl and I know I like Brawl more than 64, but I'm really trying to break it down here.

As for combos, try looking at this. D-air to Knee actually works in Brawl http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsF_zFKyvkY

There's other stuff like jab locks and other technical things which really do raise the combo counter, and I'm really really too lazy to mention some of these since Brawl rly does have a lot of things to learn about, so will you kindly read the Brawl boards as many smart people have discovered what is a legit combo in Brawl.

Sliding is amazingly useful since really there are no real disadvantages to it since you can alter your momentum with jumps anyway, and there are a lot of things you can do while sliding. Yeah you can't DJC in Brawl, but Pikachu has QAC, Peach can still float, and other character specific stuff that is more useful than DJC anyway. A lot of character recovery moves are really good (look at R.O.B. for example), and the effect of momentum altering aerial attacks is very noticeable in Brawl. Dashdancing is okay but simply standing and reading your opponent is almost as good anyway (and in Brawl, you have stutter stepped F-smashes in exchange which is VERY useful), and you have a ton of other exploits from canceling dash attacks into U-smashes, momentum reversal with special attacks, the ledge options 64 doesn't have. Really there are many more useful movement options in Brawl than there are in 64. I'd rather not list everything out there and rather you should read some things for yourself.

The other thing is both Brawl and Melee have more options at the ledge, a better dodge system, and the ability to powershield, and 64's grab system is really lame. IMO powershielding alone is hugely important to have in any fighting game.

I take it back. The combo meter in brawl has become very pathetic. You can see marth obviously trying to airdodge while falcon hits him with the knee afterwards and for some reason it counts as a combo. Further proof that real combos dont exist in brawl.

 

[JaimeHR]

It counts because if you air dodge early after the first attack it will only leave your character open for another hit as if you never used an air dodge.

Further proof that people lacks BEEF! to understand Brawl's Physics xP...

stop trying to convince everyone else that there's so much more freedom in brawl and many more useful options.

Seriously, he's right. Just give up on trying to convince people to enjoy Brawl, they already like Melee or SSB64 better, it's all about personal taste.

But anyway, if the problem is real combos, they only exist on SSB64 so join my game already, i never lagzx!!! BEEF!Man! still has lots of 64BEEF! too.

 

[S.P.A.D.]

Smash 64 will ALWAYS be better.

Only disapproval : Jigglypuff and her Board the Platform. If the added that in the next Smash Bros., I would love it and hate it.

 

[A2ZOMG]

It counts because if you air dodge early after the first attack it will only leave your character open for another hit as if you never used an air dodge.

Further proof that people lacks BEEF! to understand Brawl's Physics xP...

At least this guy knows something...

The combo indeed technically can't be escaped since the air dodge has lag, and it's the only thing you could have done to attempt to avoid the Knee. There is a lot of other stuff that does count as combo by that principle.

I'm not convincing anyone Brawl is better than 64 btw. I'm explaining why I think its 1 vs 1 gameplay is about even if different. Options in both games are completely different, and in 64 there is combos, and in Brawl there is defense and mobility.

 

[Superstar]

About the throws being bad in SSB64 because they killed, I sort of like it. Game is pretty aerial to the point where it's difficult to land a smash attack [I might suck, but whatever]. After I tried throwing to get my kills it works much better. There are better ways of combing anyways, <3 drill. Drill->bthrow is the easiest way of killing, drill->usmash works but it can't get it easily and it's more precise. Need more practice and/or need a controller.

I know that aerial mobility is way better in 64 than SSB64 at least. Would argue more, not in the mood.

Also, Fox's drill combos at least take no technical skill [in Brawl]. Brawl has too many of these one-two combos that you can't mix up, it's always a set formula.

The main reason I dislike Brawl is because it's too easy to pick up, wheras in SSB64 after a month I was only good enough to beat the average pubby and nothing more.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

you could clearly get out of that knee combo if he hadn't of airdodged and waited for the attack to do something

 

[A2ZOMG]

Well yeah I was about to say drill to U-smash or even D-smash heh. But anyway at least you have variety in throws in both Melee and Brawl and only a few of them kill.

And I think you were about to argue that aerial mobility is better in 64 than in Brawl. Nah not really when you actually have exploits like QAC, Peach and R.O.B.'s floating, gliding, aerial attacks that stall momentum, not to mention air dodging both in Melee and Brawl (yeah its a little lame in Brawl though), and B-reversal (requires technical skill to pull off, and IMO extremely useful).

Aerial movement in 64 is pretty much either DI (which is more diverse in Brawl), fastfall (about the same effect in 64 and Brawl, most prominent in Melee), or be somewhat weird and have DJC or have multiple jumps (no DJC in Brawl, and anyway all of these char specific options are situational anyway). I've read one of 5150's posts analyzing the situation of Brawl when it was developing and one of the things he mentioned is how the game 64 is very basic in that characters move almost identically.

Brawl I guess is the easiest to pick up, but really that's less of a factor to worry about when you play against someone competent anyway because the better player will be smarter and/or have better reflexes since Brawl isn't actually depthless. And although it's a little bit overbuffed in Brawl, I really wouldn't have the defensive options much differently from the way they were set up in Melee and Brawl. In both you can perfectly block an attack and punish, and you actually get punished for grabbing at the wrong moment. You can also recover from walls and ceilings, not just floors (so yes you can do walltech recovery in Brawl like in Melee) Lastly is the many more useful advanced techniques that can be used to alter movement so you can get more from properly spacing.

Again I said Brawl is no better than 64, but it's completely different in that it has more options in different fields which are also very important in a fighting game. If you want to play a really good fighting game play Melee. I don't like Melee as much as the others since I don't really have good reflexes for it (probably since I don't play video games as much as some of the other people who love video games) and then I like 64 because it's much easier than Melee and I like Brawl with is also easier than Melee. I prefer Brawl over the others probably because it's aesthetically pleasing and because I feel the extra features are overall much better in this game.

Random note, but also in 64 and Brawl, I don't think ASDI exists in either, and IMO that's the only thing that really shouldn't have been in Melee since it's really gay on multi-hit attacks and can be done on a n00b level (SDI is okay, since you have to consciously pick a direction to escape a multihit).

 

[captain smashie01]

Dude, you've got good logic and reasoning, but you're basing all that on incorrect facts and insufficient knowlege which undermines the whole thing.
Until you can recognise that, you're going to get nowhere in this debate

 

[A2ZOMG]

The only two advanced techniques people rly mentioned that are useful for movement in 64 are DJC and Dashdancing, and one of the mentioned is character specific. Also 5150 (who I highly doubt is by any means stupid) mentioned before me that taking away the weird aerial jumps, characters move almost exactly the same in 64, which means the best character is determined almost purely by how good of a moveset you have. 64 is very basic that way.

Not only is basic movement diversified in Melee and Brawl, you have many, many more advanced exploits in both games, character specific or not. It's more significant in Melee than Brawl yes.

If you can tell me that I'm undervaluing something in 64, then I want to hear about it. I highly doubt I'm overvaluing the techniques I'm thinking about in Brawl since that's the game I have read and discussed the most about, and watched the most vids of recently.

Bah, not that it means much but also one minor thing I like more about Brawl is that it has the best meteor smash system. Spikes are too strong in 64 and too fast. In Melee not all Meteor Smashes are spikes which is gay, and the ones that are meteor smashes are almost always slower than the spikes. In Brawl everyone of those spikes, but at least against the weaker spikes you aren't completely obliterated.

 

[cemo]

Wait, wasn't 5150 a ******** troll?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Troll or not, this is definitely an intelligent post. Made before Brawl was released. http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=136872

And lol at his sig predictions.

 

[Zantetsu]

Who cares if 64 doesn't have all these "techniques" that brawl has. I'd still rather have 64's amazing combos and ability to z cancel then have brawls trashy techniques with no combos

 

[Surri-Sama]

Who cares if 64 doesn't have all these "techniques" that brawl has. I'd still rather have 64's amazing combos and ability to z cancel then have brawls trashy techniques with no combos

You also forgetting what becomes of this fact, the lack of effective and consistent combos makes it mroe of a defensive game, which makes it slower, and imo less fun, people try to say Brawl is more fun then Smash64, DUE TO the fact that the game isnt run by 0-deaths..these people (A2ZOMG) need to leave the Smash64 boards (why are they even here? dont they have more camp starts to come up with....AND bs techs they think make the game better...Pivot Grab omg he turned and grabbed fux nao wai!) because they will get no sympathy from me (yay Ike ftw!..btw he fights for his friends, dont forget that!)